Has Dragon Ball been remastered to HD or not?

[Kuwabara]

I agree with Robo4900 that the footage looks way too good to be an upscale of the Dragon Box footage as it was released. Now the only question is, where did this footage really come from? Uncovering the truth might be as fascinating as archiving the broadcast audio or finding the Harmony Gold dub of Dragon Ball...

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I miss Kei17. Where is he when you need him? I wish he was here to confirm if it's a brand new HD master.

Isn't Kei17 the guy who pissed off a lot of fans for being overly protective with his video and audio rips because if the Japanese police found out, they would throw him in the slammer for sharing old VHS recordings? I think we all know it was a diversion from the fact that he wanted them for himself. But don't worry, there's plenty more knowledgeable fans out there with the same stuff he's got who's willing to share!

[DB1984]

Kei17 seemed to be the only person in Japan with more than just the first seven episodes of the original series with the broadcast audio.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Kei17 seemed to be the only person in Japan with more than just the first seven episodes of the original series with the broadcast audio.

Unfortunately, the recordings of the original series weren't any better than the optical audio found on the Dragon Boxes.

[Arian]

Kei17 seemed to be the only person in Japan with more than just the first seven episodes of the original series with the broadcast audio.

Unfortunately, the recordings of the original series weren't any better than the optical audio found on the Dragon Boxes.

That's not true, it was actually, at least in my opinion, a step above that horrid Dragon Box audio at least.

I do agree with you about Kei17 though. It's just such a waste.

[HakkaiBills93]

Sure it s à waste but i think you are wrong about him.

Kei hardly work to gather hi8 vhs etc (dragon ball 8 to 153) exist in hi8 i have seen àn old seller that sold them

Kei surely want to take crédit of his work and hé wanted to do it legally by working with Toei but those décline audios and when there was s'abat interested by them hé start to work with membres hère before beeing betray by one of them who sold audios (maakuo) ...it is logical that hé remain close to his audios as for exemple now thé à broadcast audio release didn t mention kei ... kit s à great error thinking kei is thé only one having them ...in japan some have them it s juste that they don t talk about it

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Sure it s à waste but i think you are wrong about him.

Kei hardly work to gather hi8 vhs etc (dragon ball 8 to 153) exist in hi8 i have seen àn old seller that sold them

Kei surely want to take crédit of his work and hé wanted to do it legally by working with compagnies but those décline audios and when there was s'abat interested by them hé start to work with membres hère before beeing betray by one of them who sold audios (maakuo) ...it is logical that hé remain close to his audios as for exemple now thé à broadcast audio release didn t mention kei ... kit s à great error thinking kei is thé only one having them ...in japan some have them it s juste that they don t talk about it

With all the rumors that go around, you can’t be sure what happened. Like I said, Kei pissed off a lot of people. How do you know Kei didn’t betray someone else? It’s best not to jump to conclusions and just let it go. It is what it is.

[HakkaiBills93]

it's not only rumour but it's not the topic..if the true story would have been told here one member of the staff and supposed to be kei close friends (but fucked him behind) would probably close the topic. we agree that such good audio never released is a poor things it's a waste and considering that kei is also gathering audios for others anime like saint seiya and hokuto no ken and that they will never surface is also a waste as this fucking toei don't want to use them. but there is nothing to do. except hoping for another people having other japanese recording (sure there is) that released them

[HakkaiBills93]

Kei17 seemed to be the only person in Japan with more than just the first seven episodes of the original series with the broadcast audio.

Unfortunately, the recordings of the original series weren't any better than the optical audio found on the Dragon Boxes.

That's not true, it was actually, at least in my opinion, a step above that horrid Dragon Box audio at least.

I do agree with you about Kei17 though. It's just such a waste.

it's wrong there is hi8 recording of the whole dragon ball series (kei never talked about it) and i have an evidence even if the transaction is over for almost two years

[Arian]

it's not only rumour but it's not the topic..if the true story would have been told here one member of the staff and supposed to be kei close friends (but fucked him behind) would probably close the topic. we agree that such good audio never released is a poor things it's a waste and considering that kei is also gathering audios for others anime like saint seiya and hokuto no ken and that they will never surface is also a waste as this fucking toei don't want to use them. but there is nothing to do. except hoping for another people having other japanese recording (sure there is) that released them

I'm sorry, I know it's not what this topic is about but I can't let that go unchallenged.

Toei may not have wanted to use Kei's recordings, but FUNimation and I'm almost positive Discotek could have. Chris Sabat and Derek Padula have tried to contact Kei multiple times but he won't have any part of it because he was mad that somebody shared his recording of the 1992 special. So don't say that no company wanted these recordings.

Okay, now on the discussion at hand.

[HakkaiBills93]

it's not only rumour but it's not the topic..if the true story would have been told here one member of the staff and supposed to be kei close friends (but fucked him behind) would probably close the topic. we agree that such good audio never released is a poor things it's a waste and considering that kei is also gathering audios for others anime like saint seiya and hokuto no ken and that they will never surface is also a waste as this fucking toei don't want to use them. but there is nothing to do. except hoping for another people having other japanese recording (sure there is) that released them

I'm sorry, I know it's not what this topic is about but I can't let that go unchallenged.

Toei may not have wanted to use Kei's recordings, but FUNimation and I'm almost positive Discotek could have. Chris Sabat and Derek Padula have tried to contact Kei multiple times but he won't have any part of it because he was mad that somebody shared his recording of the 1992 special. So don't say that no company wanted these recordings.

Okay, now on the discussion at hand.

yes i said it wrong as it was Toei that decline it

[LordCrumb]

Sure it s à waste but i think you are wrong about him.

Kei hardly work to gather hi8 vhs etc (dragon ball 8 to 153) exist in hi8 i have seen àn old seller that sold them

Kei surely want to take crédit of his work and hé wanted to do it legally by working with Toei but those décline audios and when there was s'abat interested by them hé start to work with membres hère before beeing betray by one of them who sold audios (maakuo) ...it is logical that hé remain close to his audios as for exemple now thé à broadcast audio release didn t mention kei ... kit s à great error thinking kei is thé only one having them ...in japan some have them it s juste that they don t talk about it

Yeah. AnimeMaakou (who has disappeared) PMed me a few times about selling me the Broadcast Audio. He/She wanted $US500 and offered the Audio rips, along with some other stuff. I declined because I would never pay for a bootleg of Dragon Ball. I'd pay shitloads for legit stuff, but never bootleg.


But anyway, this thread has gone way off topic.

[KBABZ]

Made my own comparison image. The "control" image is the Netflix Japan one since that one was the largest; the other two were doubled in size with Nearest Neighbour (so no blurring of pixels) and then shrunk down to the size of the Netflix Japan image, so they look as crisp as possible.

[Arian]

Made my own comparison image. The "control" image is the Netflix Japan one since that one was the largest; the other two were doubled in size with Nearest Neighbour (so no blurring of pixels) and then shrunk down to the size of the Netflix Japan image, so they look as crisp as possible.

Great comparison, KBABZ!

There's definitely something to this Netflix master. The question is, is it significant enough to matter?

[HakkaiBills93]

Made my own comparison image. The "control" image is the Netflix Japan one since that one was the largest; the other two were doubled in size with Nearest Neighbour (so no blurring of pixels) and then shrunk down to the size of the Netflix Japan image, so they look as crisp as possible.

how do you know it's netflix japan? for what i see line are better on "netflix" screen it can be compression like it can be filter like lfsmod or others as if it's really netflix sd or hd footage they have access to the uncompressed master so make their own compression but i don't see anything here that show higher resolution transfer just better looking footage

contrast and other things are also differrent here and can also play here

[KBABZ]

There's definitely something to this Netflix master. The question is, is it significant enough to matter?

Well it looks a darnsight better than the other two IMO; the lines are much crisper by comparison, being 34% larger than the Dragon Box version (960ht vs 716ht), and that makes even the grain look somewhat appealing rather than distracting, kinda like a classic movie, not to mention being able to present itself much better on HD displays and not look so positively tiny. If you look at Goku's mouth in both, it's pretty obvious that you cannot get the JP Netflix version out of the pixels provided in the Dragon Box screenshot; that kind of detail you can't really get with sharpening filters since that information just doesn't exist in the Box footage. Another telling detail is the line in the middle of the wing mirror under Goku's head; there's too much additional detail in the JP Netflix version for it to be sourced from the JP DVD footage.

how do you know it's netflix japan?

Hmm, you know what, you're actually correct, I used Netflix Japan in error. Mystery Torrent would have been the more appropriate term.

[HakkaiBills93]

There's definitely something to this Netflix master. The question is, is it significant enough to matter?

Well it looks a darnsight better than the other two IMO; the lines are much crisper by comparison, being 34% larger than the Dragon Box version (960ht vs 716ht), and that makes even the grain look somewhat appealing rather than distracting, kinda like a classic movie, not to mention being able to present itself much better on HD displays and not look so positively tiny. If you look at Goku's mouth in both, it's pretty obvious that you cannot get the JP Netflix version out of the pixels provided in the Dragon Box screenshot; that kind of detail you can't really get with sharpening filters since that information just doesn't exist in the Box footage. Another telling detail is the line in the middle of the wing mirror under Goku's head; there's too much additional detail in the JP Netflix version for it to be sourced from the JP DVD footage.

how do you know it's netflix japan?

Hmm, you know what, you're actually correct, I used Netflix Japan in error. Mystery Torrent would have been the more appropriate term.

that's what i pointed out no matter what source was used it isn't an HD stream or i invite anyone giving a link to a legal plate forme using HD footage for dbox
the dragon box dvd footage isn't the best quality for this footage as it was compressed and i seriously doubt that Toei give dvd files to others company
so that a better version of dragon box can exist for sure like i said with saint seiya r3 dvd using the same transfert (have the same wrong colors and tint) but are sharpener and less crop

sure that if he use a better source (foreign not well known release for example) it can easilly upscale (if already sharpener in sd it will be the same in HD) and say it's an HD stream
but a true HD transfer should look far better than that for sure

about details i can say you that you can sharpening not only line but everything else by filter my filter for example make line bigger and even make more grain visible but it's artificial just that like sharpening make contrast around pixel edge things look more visible but it's not natural and i am not the best encoder for sure some people are really strong in encode and filtering
for example if you look goku red things on his hand in the sharpen version done with filter you can see the line is more visible in mine, it's the same with the green circle and some others line and things here and there but it's not true it's just artificial but it give a wrong sensation of better things that isn't true ...



maybe it's really a differrent source than dbox so it's rather logical that the encode is differrent and maybe the sharpening too caused to differrent dvd resolution or compression
or it's an hoax as it didn't exist HD streaming of dragon ball



to resume and stay in the topic

1 it is a differrent source than dbox? maybe it can came from any sd HQ stream or any dvd release using dbox transfer for what i know companies have uncompressed files of their series (so uncompressed dragon box footage) so it can look better and they deliberately zoom in the footage on dragon box to hide scratch
2 it's an HD stream? wrong as no HD stream exist
3 it can be filter? maybe
4 there is an HD transfer? maybe as no one know what toei have BUT this video didn't show anything about it as a true hd transfer should look better than this one.

[KBABZ]

that's what i pointed out no matter what source was used it isn't an HD stream or i invite anyone giving a link to a legal plate forme using HD footage for dbox

For something to qualify as HD, it needs to be over 720 pixels high. The stream footage is 738.

the dragon box dvd footage isn't the best quality for this footage as it was compressed

True, but if this is a hoax as you say then I would expect it to look much closer to the French DVDs, and I personally don't see it.

4 there is an HD transfer? maybe as no one know what toei have BUT this video didn't show anything about it as a true hd transfer should look better than this one.

That's likely because the show is from 1986, and there are some things you cannot fix on a thirty year-old master. In addition to that, the Dragon Boxes were done in 2003-2005, in an era where HD was only just entering consumer markets (think 4K two years ago). I would be surprised if Toei fully considered their transfers to HD, and they likely saw 720p as being enough (considering that 1080 footage wouldn't be standard for years after that), especially when you remember that they had to transfer five hundred and eight episodes, or 203 hours of content.

So why would they scan in something that large to begin with? Well it makes the remastering process easier; it's easier to get rid of blips and scratches when you have more pixels to work with, and then shrink it down later. Films do this a lot; as I mentioned earlier, films are often worked on at huge resolutions and then shrunk down at the end for consumer use. This is why I think that Toei might have digital HD Dragon Box masters of the show.

...on an unrelated subject, this takes me back to that brief stint in Kai from episodes 34 to 38, where all of a sudden the picture quality shot up and wasn't completely blurry or anything!

Spoiler:

[HakkaiBills93]

that's what i pointed out no matter what source was used it isn't an HD stream or i invite anyone giving a link to a legal plate forme using HD footage for dbox

For something to qualify as HD, it needs to be over 720 pixels high. The stream footage is 738.

the dragon box dvd footage isn't the best quality for this footage as it was compressed

True, but if this is a hoax as you say then I would expect it to look much closer to the French DVDs, and I personally don't see it.

4 there is an HD transfer? maybe as no one know what toei have BUT this video didn't show anything about it as a true hd transfer should look better than this one.

That's likely because the show is from 1986, and there are some things you cannot fix on a thirty year-old master. In addition to that, the Dragon Boxes were done in 2003-2005, in an era where HD was only just entering consumer markets (think 4K two years ago). I would be surprised if Toei fully considered their transfers to HD, and they likely saw 720p as being enough (considering that 1080 footage wouldn't be standard for years after that), especially when you remember that they had to transfer five hundred and eight episodes, or 203 hours of content.

So why would they scan in something that large to begin with? Well it makes the remastering process easier; it's easier to get rid of blips and scratches when you have more pixels to work with, and then shrink it down later. Films do this a lot; as I mentioned earlier, films are often worked on at huge resolutions and then shrunk down at the end for consumer use. This is why I think that Toei might have digital HD Dragon Box masters of the show.

...on an unrelated subject, this takes me back to that brief stint in Kai from episodes 34 to 38, where all of a sudden the picture quality shot up and wasn't completely blurry or anything!

Spoiler:

using HD resolution is pretty easy my sharpening is done with a resize in 720p, it doesn't mean it's a true HD
Dragon Ball and Saint seiya have been remastered the same way but when Toei released the saint seiya bluray, everyone can see that it's an upscale, do you really think toei would have used upscale footage if real HD scan already exist?
i am pretty sure it's an upscale there 's no way it can be a true hd scan

about the kai better ep kei said that's toei have 35mm film for those episodes only 16mm film can't give better result than that

if it is really an HD stream so why the torrent have been deleted? why no one else in this world talk about that?

edit: and france isn't the only country that released dragon ball on dvd using dbox footage

if it's really true about a webrip i invite anyone to show i am wrong not by the episode uploaded but by the legal link of the original stream

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Sure it s à waste but i think you are wrong about him.

Kei hardly work to gather hi8 vhs etc (dragon ball 8 to 153) exist in hi8 i have seen àn old seller that sold them

Kei surely want to take crédit of his work and hé wanted to do it legally by working with Toei but those décline audios and when there was s'abat interested by them hé start to work with membres hère before beeing betray by one of them who sold audios (maakuo) ...it is logical that hé remain close to his audios as for exemple now thé à broadcast audio release didn t mention kei ... kit s à great error thinking kei is thé only one having them ...in japan some have them it s juste that they don t talk about it

Yeah. AnimeMaakou (who has disappeared) PMed me a few times about selling me the Broadcast Audio. He/She wanted $US500 and offered the Audio rips, along with some other stuff. I declined because I would never pay for a bootleg of Dragon Ball. I'd pay shitloads for legit stuff, but never bootleg.

But anyway, this thread has gone way off topic.

Maakuo didn’t sell audio, no. And most things you see are photoshopped by Enigmo (banned member). Maakuo was pissed off at Kei for lying about a promise he made (which dragged on for years), and after acquiring better audio, he traded it because he didn’t have anything to lose.

But just for the sake of argument, let’s just say he did. What are you gonna do, spank him for selling crappy VHS recordings from a 30 year old show? The whole thing is childish, if you ask me. Kei is the one being selfish. He used Derek to connect Maakuo with Sabat to get approval, which Kei was able to snag the tapes off of this other guy to keep them for himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if Kei tells the owner that he “isn’t finished yet” with digitizing them.

This entire situation is laughable.