Is Dragon Ball really that hard to get into?

[Apollo Fungus]

I've been a fan of Dragon Ball for about nine years, and one thing I remember hearing every now and again is how difficult it is for newcomers to get into the series; not just from detractors, but long time fans of the franchise. And I got to thinking about how strange that opinion is, considering the thought process behind it.

See, if the discussion was about people not being able to get into the series due to the ridiculous amount of content on offer (42 manga tankobans, 600+ episodes, 20-30 movies, dozens of video games, loads of spin-offs), I'd understand that. It's the same reason I can't get into shows that run for at least a hundred-odd episodes; it's too much content to try and commit to when trying to just get into the series!

But that's not what people discuss; it's usually about which point in the series people should get into the series (e.g. should I start with the Saiyan arc, or the Dragon Ball Hunt arc, or the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc...), which just seems like the oddest thing to me. Surely, if you want to get into Dragon Ball, be it the manga or the anime, you'd start from the very beginning and go from there. That's what you'd do with any other series, right? You wouldn't tell people to start reading Naruto with Volume 28, would you? Or suggest they get into Metal Gear by playing Guns of the Patriots? You'd tell them to start from the beginning, because why wouldn't you?

Not with Dragon Ball, apparently, to the point where people can get legitimately hung up or confused on how to get into the series because it's supposedly a heavily dense, sprawling mess of fiction comparable to the likes of Lost or the MCU (it's not. It's really not).

I think the reason some people find getting into Dragon Ball to be so convoluted is because the way it was released in North America (and therefore, how they experienced it) was so convoluted. The manga's localization was split into Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z, while FUNimation's bonkers release of "first 13 episodes of DB-->DBZ-->DB-->DBGT" must have caused quite a few folks to scratch their heads in confusion. And when most of the West's understanding of Dragon Ball is derived from FUNimation's handling of the series (consider how many parodies or fan interpretations are based primarily on their DBZ dub), that likely lead to a lot of people thinking that the series was a lot more convoluted than it really is.

But I admit that this is just my guess, and I want to know what you guys think on the matter. Is it really that difficult to get into Dragon Ball? Am I being a bit too myopic, considering my own experiences with the series (I got into the PS2-era video games, and then read the manga from the beginning to figure out what was going on)? Do you have any other ideas? I'd really like to know.

[VegettoEX]

You pretty much nailed it: there wouldn't be much question had FUNimation's release not been so all over the place. People project from their own experience, assuming/believing/explaining that what they did is just fine and dandy for anyone/everyone.

I fully believe that you don't really know and understand these characters to their fullest if you never went back and saw their humble beginnings. Their "development" mostly happens before Raditz shows up! After that it's icing on the cake for all the development you already got.

I will posit one thing to the contrary, though: all of these long-running shonen are also structured so you can jump into them at any point. There's always a break after an arc, always a regrouping, always a jump ahead, etc. There are always these breathers, and that's as much for the author and existing audience as it actually is for a new audience.

Dragon Ball is one thing at just over 500 chapters, but look at something like One Piece which is about to hit 900 chapters, or Hajime no Ippo which is about to hit 1200. These are long-form, serialized stories that truly do start at the beginning and go all the way through (as opposed to something like KochiKame, which is just gag-of-the-week). To maintain an audience and continue to bring in new audience members to make up for the attrition that will invariably happen with any series, you have to let new people jump in, and they need to be able to do so without decades of baggage. If they want to go back and check out said baggage, great! If not, they still need an easy "in".

To that point, I say Raditz is no different from King Piccolo before him or Cell after him.

(But yes, the "daunting" part of these kinds of massive franchises for the newbies is less about "In which order do I read 1-519?!?" and more "holy hell why are these 80 gazillion animated features with different numbering schemes and some don't have numbers and some overwrite each other and uuuuhhhhh.....?")

[sintzu]

You've got the mess Funimation did, you've got Z being released first on home video in Japan and the main face of the franchise, you've got Kai saying it's closer to the manga even though it skips the first 16 volumes, you've got Super marketed as Z's sequel even though there's GT, etc.

A simple look at wikipedia would tell anyone what they need to know so regardless of the above, it's still one of the easiest franchise's to get into, especially compared to the likes of star wars. With that said, there's no excuse for how bad they've handled DB from a marketing point of view.

[precita]

The Dragonball franchise is way too complicated for its own good. Its probably impossible to get into Dragonball as a newcomer at this point for the following reasons:

1. It's a HUGE series. Even just counting Dragonball and DBZ (and not GT or Super), that's over 400+ episodes of commitment. When you go to a new person and say, "Well you have to watch at least 400 something episodes to get through the core arcs of the series" they'll look at you and laugh, especially if they're in their 20's or 30's when they have full time jobs or families.

2. A lot of casuals still won't watch anything subbed. So you would have to show them the dub, and FUNi's old DBZ dub is a real mixed bag.

3. The anime craze in the U.S. died after the early 2000's. Nowadays getting into anime is probably a lot harder than it was a decade ago now that the "fad" is over. There's less incentive to check something out when people stop talking about it.

4. Dragonball's "memes" all over the internet tarnished its reputation. People who never watched the series, I see them posting online saying "Isn't Dragonball the show where all the characters do is scream and change their hair color and fight for 40 episodes straight?" The franchise reputation in the U.S., if you didn't grow up with it, is basically a laughing stock.

5. The weirdness. I know if I wasn't a kid when I got into it, I'd wonder what's this strange show was about with talking animals, characters who change their hair color to fight, the weird humor, these crazy alien designs, etc. Dragonball is a very weird series. When I was a kid I kept saying, "Why does this Tien guy have 3 eyes?" "Why is Gohan born with a tail?" "What the hell is a Saiyan?" I'd imagine it'd be just as hard for newcomers.

6. Last but not least, if you don't have nostalgia for it, the series really isn't THAT good. There's plenty of other better shows to be spending your time on. I love Dragonball but it's a hard sell to new people.

7. Even if you were to only read the manga, a lot of people prefer to watch something than "read comics." The Dragonball manga being read right to left is a turn off to people.


Overall yes, Dragonball would be quite a hard franchise to get into now during the modern year of nearly 2018. In fact I'd say it would be almost downright impossible. The "entry barrier" is quite high.

[ABED]

The show was already 500 episodes before most of us ever started. That's not the issue. It's like any other series, if they get invested from the beginning, the episode count won't be a problem.

Why is weirdness an issue? Any scifi or fantasy series is going to have weird elements.

6. Last but not least, if you don't have nostalgia for it, the series really isn't THAT good. There's plenty of other better shows to be spending your time on. I love Dragonball but it's a hard sell to new people.

Yet again, it's a specious argument. People have a nostalgic feeling for it because they enjoy it. You were at one time new to the show, and yet you like it now. I don't see how that doesn't apply to anyone else.

[Cipher]

I've been moving for a while that the fandom seems to have some sort of complex about downplaying the series' quality.

Guys, Dragon Ball is good. It's okay to think it's good. It's an amazingly crafted series that I think can be enjoyed by anyone at any age, and the only way it compares unfavorably to anything it merits comparison to in the first place is if you're looking to get something out of..really, just shonen fighting series...that I wouldn't send most adult audiences to the genre to seek out in the first place.

The length is indeed a fair hurdle. But if you've got someone curious enough to give it a go, put them down in front of chapter/episode 1 and let it do its magic.

[precita]

I've been moving for a while that the fandom seems to have some sort of complex about downplaying the series' quality.

Guys, Dragon Ball is good. It's okay to think it's good. It's an amazingly crafted series that I think can be enjoyed by anyone at any age, and the only way it compares unfavorably to anything it merits comparison to in the first place is if you're looking to get something out of..really, just shonen fighting series...that I wouldn't send most adult audiences to the genre to seek out in the first place

It's good, but it comes with a certain price. Dragonball is a kids franchise after all, so despite being entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, it still is at its heart just a silly series about characters throwing energy beams at each other and the standard good vs evil concepts you find in any superhero or fighting series. If anything it's as I said above, the "weirdness" that gives Dragonball a certain edge over most series. It's hard to describe really, but the way Dragonball mixes silly with seriousness, action with goofiness, and has such weird concepts as talking animals mixed in with hair changing warriors, time travel, gods, pink bubblegum men, etc. In a way the series is an anomaly, on paper when you describe the series to someone it honestly *shouldn't* be good, but experiencing it is a whole another story.

Most of the original fans are around 30 years old now or older, as fully grown adults there does seem to be a certain stigma over still getting excited over Goku "gaining a new form" or these animal people and robots fighting. According to societal norms we're the exception, it was a series we were expected to move on from as we moved into adulthood. You wouldn't bring it up on a new date over dinner that you watch Dragonball for example and expect to get a positive response. The series is a "guilty pleasure" so to speak. We know there's other series or movies out there that are more emotionally stimulating, more thought provoking, or intellectually engaging. It's comfort food. Good comfort food, but all the same.

And since I imagine this thread was aimed at adults rather than a new kid audience, I would imagine that was the case. Dragonball has a high entry barrier for adults. It's like learning a new foreign language, learning calculus or becoming a computer programmer. You can learn it if you put in the time and set your mind to it, but at the end of the day it's only for entertainment value while the other things I mentioned would be set for someones career to make monetary value. And if you didn't get into it as a kid, it would be hard to spend what little free time you have to get into a series that you have to watch 400 something episodes at the bare minimum to get started. At the end of the day what's worth it more to people, getting into another long winded series or sticking with what you know? I guess it's up to each individual person, and with that I drop the mic.

[ABED]

It's not the standard good vs. evil of superhero stories. It's not that sort of story at all. What superhero stories do you know where the heroes intentionally let the bad guys go in order to have a good fight?

The ability to mix genres and tones is the magic of DB. It's like Buffy and Star Wars. All three mix a lot of different genres and influence together but create something that feels unique and of a whole.

Yeah, it's a kids' show, but over time I think that stigma will die down. Geek culture is already being de-stigmatized and becoming more mainstream.

[MR.Mark]

I've been moving for a while that the fandom seems to have some sort of complex about downplaying the series' quality.

Guys, Dragon Ball is good. It's okay to think it's good. It's an amazingly crafted series that I think can be enjoyed by anyone at any age, and the only way it compares unfavorably to anything it merits comparison to in the first place is if you're looking to get something out of..really, just shonen fighting series...that I wouldn't send most adult audiences to the genre to seek out in the first place.

The length is indeed a fair hurdle. But if you've got someone curious enough to give it a go, put them down in front of chapter/episode 1 and let it do its magic.

Dragon Ball is great, but there's flaws, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging them now and then. Granted the flaws are not big enough to ruin the series, that speaks for itself, that's all that matters in the end.

I believe Dragon Ball is as big as it is because of the culture. It's the type of Japanese children series that has content that automatically elevates it to appeal for all ages outside of Japan. That's part of the magic, had Japanese TV standards for children been close to places like the States I doubt we'd be talking about this today.

[sintzu]

I've been moving for a while that the fandom seems to have some sort of complex about downplaying the series' quality.

I've noticed this as well. It's not everyone but there's a good amount here at least who will say things like it's not that good or can't be compared to other shows. If that's the case then why are you all still fans of it ?

Dragonball is a kids franchise after all, so despite being entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, it still is at its heart just a silly series about good vs evil concepts.

Most popular franchises at their core like star wars can be described like this which is a huge misleading description for them and even DB.

[MR.Mark]

I've been moving for a while that the fandom seems to have some sort of complex about downplaying the series' quality.

I've noticed this as well. It's not everyone but there's a good amount here at least who will say things like it's not that good or can't be compared to other shows. If that's the case then why are you all still fans of it ?

Dragonball is a kids franchise after all, so despite being entertaining and sometimes thought provoking, it still is at its heart just a silly series about good vs evil concepts.

Most popular franchises at their core like star wars can be described like this which is a huge misleading description for them and even DB.

Dragon Ball is a kid's series though, we just can't look at it exactly that way because of culture differences.

It can appeal to all audiences though, but either way I have no shame in being a huge fan of a children's series.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

To approach? I don't think so. The ancillary material can be brushed aside while taking in the series itself- the number of fans that are unaware of anything that didn't air on afternoon TV on a regular basis- the movies or even Super- is probably larger than we think it is. Nor does Goku's childhood ever gives the air of a "prequel" story, and I don't think anyone outside of the fans with a very particular relationship to the Z-era (FUNi dub centric fans, for example) is oriented to see it as one.

To read or watch? Yeah, the one universal barrier would be the length. All the context in the world won't change those 42 volumes of comics or 440~ TV episodes that were meant to be consumed week to week over several years.

[Bajosexto]

It really isn't hard to get into Dragon Ball. All you need to do is start with episode one of the Dragon Ball anime or Chapter one of the manga. Even if you want to skip the boring kid Goku adventures and start with the action packed Dragon Ball Zee, you just start on episode one of DBZ.

One thing that might discourage newcomers from getting into this series are its 500+ chapters of the manga/600+ episodes of the anime. But then again a lot of series have hundreds of episodes/chapters. Whether they are cartoons, live action shows, comics, sitcoms, etc. So if you can watch other shows with multiple seasons and hundreds of episodes, or read a long running manga like Naruto or One Piece, then I don't see why the length of Dragon Ball would be a problem.

I would imagine that the people interested in getting into this franchise are mostly anime fans. So everything that Dragon Ball has to offer will (probably) not discourage them from watching.

I guess that the "hardest" part of getting into DB would be to know were to start. This wouldn't be an issue with other anime/manga. You want to start reading/watching One Piece? Common sense would tell me to start with chapter/episode one. Same with Naruto, Ranma 1/2, My Hero Academia, One Punch Man, etc. However, thanks to FUNimation's out of order showing of the franchise in English speaking countries, we do have people who legitimately are not sure on where to start. I've actually seen the question of "Do I have to start with Dragon Ball or can I skip it?" several times. But then you simply inform these newcomers that Dragon Ball is not a prequel, spin off or an optional side story, but instead the first part of the story.

So no. Getting into Dragon Ball is not hard. It might be somewhat confusing to know where to start to some people. But other than that, the Dragon Ball franchise is relatively easy to get into compared to let's say American super hero comics.

[ABED]

Even if you want to skip the boring kid Goku adventures and start with the action packed Dragon Ball Zee, you just start on episode one of DBZ.

Are you being facetious?

[Apollo Fungus]

I don't want to turn into one of those folks that quotes and debates every single part of a post, but precita's post really bugged me. I can see where you're coming from, but I genuinely don't think they're faults of Dragon Ball, so much as they are issues of personal preference that people have affecting their desire/ability to get into Dragon Ball. Also, I feel that there's a lot of assumptions on your end that don't really gel with reality when you actually try and think about it for more than a minute.

(And before I get going, let me clarify that having personal preferences, even those that don't gel with certain media, is absolutely fine. Everyone's got them, and they're all different, so don't ever be ashamed of having personal preferences when enjoying media. I'm simply pointing them out along the way so people can discern personal preferences from the merits/flaws of a long-running series.)

1. It's a HUGE series. Even just counting Dragonball and DBZ (and not GT or Super), that's over 400+ episodes of commitment. When you go to a new person and say, "Well you have to watch at least 400 something episodes to get through the core arcs of the series" they'll look at you and laugh, especially if they're in their 20's or 30's when they have full time jobs or families.

This, at least as far as the various reasons I've heard up to now, is the only really justified reason as to why Dragon Ball can be hard to get into. Like I said, and like you pointed out, there's so much content to the point where it can seem overly imposing to folks who can't commit to it 100%.

However...

2. A lot of casuals still won't watch anything subbed. So you would have to show them the dub, and FUNi's old DBZ dub is a real mixed bag.

4. Dragonball's "memes" all over the internet tarnished its reputation. People who never watched the series, I see them posting online saying "Isn't Dragonball the show where all the characters do is scream and change their hair color and fight for 40 episodes straight?" The franchise reputation in the U.S., if you didn't grow up with it, is basically a laughing stock.

5. The weirdness. I know if I wasn't a kid when I got into it, I'd wonder what's this strange show was about with talking animals, characters who change their hair color to fight, the weird humor, these crazy alien designs, etc. Dragonball is a very weird series. When I was a kid I kept saying, "Why does this Tien guy have 3 eyes?" "Why is Gohan born with a tail?" "What the hell is a Saiyan?" I'd imagine it'd be just as hard for newcomers.

6. Last but not least, if you don't have nostalgia for it, the series really isn't THAT good. There's plenty of other better shows to be spending your time on. I love Dragonball but it's a hard sell to new people.

7. Even if you were to only read the manga, a lot of people prefer to watch something than "read comics." The Dragonball manga being read right to left is a turn off to people.

These aren't flaws of Dragon Ball that prevent people from getting into it. These are people's personal preferences that could just as easily affect their desire to check out Fist of the North Star, Evangelion or any work that comes from Japan, has memes made about it, or is a bit odd.

People not wanting to watch subtitles? Personal preferences (or in this case, possibly eye or reading speed issues) that affect everything they watch; not specific to DB.

People being turned off by a work due to memes? Personal preferences warding them off from a work; not specific to DB. (Also, if you're being turned off by a work thanks to memes of all things, chances are that you weren't that interested to begin with)

People being put off by very weird material? Personal preferences that affect what media they check out; not specific to DB.

People preferring to watch TV than read comics? Personal preferences that affect what media they check out; not specific to DB.

People being unable to read right to left? That's an issue of culture clash for people who are used to reading left to right, and one that affects every piece of culture that has to be read in the other direction; not specific to DB. In fact, I'd argue that Dragon Ball is very easy to read. This Kotaku article, for example, demonstrates how all the elements in Dragon Ball are laid out in such a way that it naturally draws your eye and makes it easy to read. When I got into DB, I'd only read one volume of manga, and would still have trouble figuring it out. But everything in DB was laid out in a way that made it easily understandable.

3. The anime craze in the U.S. died after the early 2000's. Nowadays getting into anime is probably a lot harder than it was a decade ago now that the "fad" is over. There's less incentive to check something out when people stop talking about it.

No. I'm genuinely sorry, but no. That is not at all true. For one thing, we're talking about Dragon Ball: one of the biggest manga/anime properties in the world. A property that is constantly kept in the public eye through the continual release of new material, merchandise, video games, DVDs/Blu-Rays, and (especially at the moment) a brand new TV series. Even people with little to no knowledge or interest in anime/manga have at least heard of Dragon Ball. People are always, always talking about Dragon Ball.

If we were discussing a pretty obscure work like, say, Heat Guy J*, I could understand the difficulty in trying to find information about it or a place to access it, but Dragon Ball is NOT Heat Guy J (I think that's the only time anyone in history will say that sentence).

Also, it is NOT AT ALL difficult to get into anime. In this modern age of the internet, where you can access countless media with only a few clicks and a quick Google search, where you can legally check out the latest shows on streaming sites like Netflix and Crunchyroll, it is extremely easy to check out whatever show piques your interest (whether you can watch the show legally in your region is another question altogether). And again, when we're talking about a show as freakishly popular as Dragon Ball, it's super easy to find the show in damn near every form, every language you can possibly think of. You're not looking for a scrap of gold in a river of toxic waste, for goodness' sake.

6. Last but not least, if you don't have nostalgia for it, the series really isn't THAT good. There's plenty of other better shows to be spending your time on. I love Dragonball but it's a hard sell to new people.

That is not up for you to decide as objective fact. Whether or not any series is worth spending time on (and at the expense of others at that) is up to the individual to decide, as a subjective preference and ONLY as a subjective preference. Take myself, for example. Recently, I've been watching the BBC drama Call the Midwife on Netflix, and it's a very good show. No, it's not Stranger Things, House of Cards or any of the countless other critically acclaimed shows I could be watching on Netflix, but what does it matter? I enjoy watching Call the Midwife, and that's all that should matter as far as I'm concerned.

I'm a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog, for crying out loud, and lord knows how many people consider that series to be a waste of time. But I don't care: I enjoy the games, and it means a lot to me, so I'm going to keep on enjoying it without much care for what others think. Enjoying a particular series is not some kind of crime that directly harms the lives of others, so why should you or I or anyone feel ashamed about what media we enjoy? We shouldn't, frankly.

Overall yes, Dragonball would be quite a hard franchise to get into now during the modern year of nearly 2018. In fact I'd say it would be almost downright impossible. The "entry barrier" is quite high.

So why are people constantly getting into Dragon Ball? Why are there always new people playing the video games, watching the show or movies, buying the merchandise, going to fan events, or joining fan sites like this? Because if what you say is true, then none of this should be happening. But it is, and it's happening all the time, so that can't be true.

Also, "entry barrier"? Dragon Ball is intended for young children. What kind of insanely popular, decades-spanning mega-franchise intended for children has an "entry barrier", let alone a high one? The only "entry barriers" that prevent people from getting into Dragon Ball are the imposing wealth of content they have to dig into, and their own personal preferences when it comes to experiencing media.

*Anyone who remembers this show gets a chocolate digestive

[Bajosexto]

Even if you want to skip the boring kid Goku adventures and start with the action packed Dragon Ball Zee, you just start on episode one of DBZ.

Are you being facetious?

Hmm... Yes? I'm going to sound like an idiot but I don't know what facetious means. But I was trying to be sarcastic because usually that's the reason some people skip Dragon Ball.

[ABED]

Then yes, you are being facetious. It means ironic or playful.

[Lord Beerus]

The amount of content of the series will always seem daunting at first glance. I mean, 42 volumes and over 400 episodes will always seem like tall order to tackle. But if you read the first chapter of Dragon Ball's manga, and find yourself intrigued by the premise of story and the world it introduces you into, then it's really not that difficult to get into Dragon Ball. And if you want to experience the original story in more visceral form, then the TV anime episodes (Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z), which solely exist to adapt the material of the original story, are just as easily digestible. You can start from the first episode of the Dragon Ball anime and you're good as gold.

Material like the movies, TV specials, and video games are, in my opinion, ultimately inconsequential and ultimately disposable. There are some movies and TV special that deserve a special watch given their quality, but they don't alter the original story's content in any tangible fashion. So it's not compulsory to invest the time or money into those side products.

[MR.Mark]

Kai certainly helps to brings in new fans in that regard.

[Cure Dragon 255]

As soon as you turn on a TV with Dragon Ball you WILL attract people to it. ESPECIALLY kids!