Roshi's antics

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ekrolo2
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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:09 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:But something like pedophilia, sexual harassment, and sexual assault hit too close to home for many people. You can call them "overly-sensitive" all you want, but if unfortunately you knew someone who was a victim of that, you might not be laughing. That's why many people don't laugh at it and don't find it funny. If you had some sort of disease and the series kept jabbing at it and making fun of it, you'd be very upset by it too. You wouldn't just laugh it off and say, "Well it's not meant to be taken seriously." But my entire point is you don't need to know someone or suffer from something yourself to have sympathy and empathy for others and acknowledge that something just is not funny and cannot be made into a joke. Brushing it off like that shows a real lack of compassion, understanding, sympathy, empathy, and humanity, in my opinion. Sorry, but I can't budge on that point.
I understand where you're coming from, but this goes into a very troublesome place where we start dictating what can jokes be about and what can they be about and such things, as things go, evolve into what can stories do and when we take it to it's furthest extreme, we'll end up with fiction that can't do anything ever at all because someone MIGHT be offended by it. And since anyone can possibly be offended by anything, how long before we start censoring non fiction too?

Assuming people get offended which is a big iff since people react differently to things that remind them of bad experiences, as I mentioned before, my dad was in war and has worked in prison for years, he loves war movies and prison movies, dramatic and piss takes. He doesn't care, other people can't do that, does that mean we shouldn't do that stuff because someone might get offended?

My answer is a resounding no, maybe its because fiction has never influenced me in any actual way, it's just a thing that I do because it entertains me to watch or read or talk about it but this whole idea of policing what people can say through stories or jokes is a slippery slope that can easily grow into a beast and I do not trust other people enough to NOT fuck something as delicate as this up.

You're also making a massive assumptions like people who joke about dark subject matter don't have empathy, which is just wrong. I'm a big animal lover but that doesn't mean I can't burst out laughing at a roadkill joke or something along those lines just like how my black friends can laugh at "n-word jokes" or how I can laugh at jokes where my non-Croat friends call me an inbred, Slav moron.
Last edited by ekrolo2 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:10 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Some things cannot be made into a joke and this is just one of them. To me, those who can't understand that, are either lacking some sort of basic human emotion, or just don't have any experience with people who are victims of such things, thus living a rather sheltered life.
Yeah, this is almost fascist rethoric man.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:12 pm

lol Wow. Kind of ridiculous. Nobody's connecting the dots that it's a mixture of terrible, tasteless antics regarding a subject that's very deep and personal, and making this person a protagonist and celebrated hero. I'm not saying that it's not okay to write about these things, I'm saying that this character shouldn't be a protagonist because it glosses over something that's very painful for a lot of people and turns it into a running gag. Well, apparently it worked, what can I say?

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by Asura » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:13 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I'm a big animal lover but that doesn't mean I can't burst out laughing at a roadkill joke or something along those lines just like how my black friends can laugh at "n-word jokes" or how I can laugh at jokes where my non-Croat friends call me an inbred, Slav moron.
I'd recommend editing that word in your post simply because we don't want to open that can of worms in a thread that's already a heated discussion. That all being said though, coming from a Jewish heritage (albeit not being Jewish myself) I see jokes about the holocaust or money or big noses all the time. Am I offended? No. Do I think other people are monsters for not being offended on my behalf? No. Context is everything in this case, and jokes are meant to be taken as jokes. Whether you actually find them funny is a different matter.
Last edited by Asura on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by Doctor. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:13 pm

Wait, where the fuck did the notion that Roshi is a pedophile come from? Are we even on the same page right now? He was completely uninterested when he met Chi-Chi.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:14 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:lol Wow. Kind of ridiculous. Nobody's connecting the dots
Yes, everyone is wrong but you. We have no feelings and shouldn't have a right to speak.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by rereboy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:15 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:I'm saying that this character shouldn't be a protagonist because it glosses over something that's very painful for a lot of people and turns it into a running gag.
Any person that was ever victim of violence should be out there bashing action movies, then.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm

rereboy wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:I'm saying that this character shouldn't be a protagonist because it glosses over something that's very painful for a lot of people and turns it into a running gag.
Any person that was ever victim of violence should be out there bashing action movies, then.
And any person that was victim of obesity should complain too about how Saiyajins eat, gimme a break....

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm

Doctor. wrote:Wait, where the fuck did the notion that Roshi is a pedophile come from? Are we even on the same page right now? He was completely uninterested when he met Chi-Chi.
The same place where Roshi's apparently the reason Bulma has a screwed up love life even though her stance on sex and sexuality alone is borked WAY before Roshi and her meet.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:17 pm

Doctor. wrote:Wait, where the fuck did the notion that Roshi is a pedophile come from? Are we even on the same page right now? He was completely uninterested when he met Chi-Chi.
Bulma.
PsionicWarrior wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:lol Wow. Kind of ridiculous. Nobody's connecting the dots
Yes, everyone is wrong but you. We have no feelings and shouldn't have a right to speak.
Not at all what i meant. In many people's responses to me, they seem to have overlooked the fact that I mentioned that these are not the qualities of a protagonist/hero and went for, "Well then nobody can write about anything by your logic." That's what people didn't connect the dots about. You have the right to do whatever; I'm not telling anyone that they can't express themselves. Just clearing up my post.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by Doctor. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:18 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Bulma.
Bulma was 16, a teenager (whose age far exceeded Japan's age of consent laws, to boot).

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:19 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Wait, where the fuck did the notion that Roshi is a pedophile come from? Are we even on the same page right now? He was completely uninterested when he met Chi-Chi.
Bulma.
PsionicWarrior wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:lol Wow. Kind of ridiculous. Nobody's connecting the dots
Yes, everyone is wrong but you. We have no feelings and shouldn't have a right to speak.
Not at all what i meant. In many people's responses to me, they seem to have overlooked the fact that I mentioned that these are not the qualities of a protagonist/hero and went for, "Well then nobody can write about anything by your logic." That's what people didn't connect the dots about. You have the right to do whatever; I'm not telling anyone that they can't express themselves. Just clearing up my post.
No, I told you you're looking at the wrong series if you're looking for classically good natured protagonists, Dragon Ball is not one of them. Also, Bulma uses her own sexuality openly and constantly before and after Roshi, he didn't mess her up any more then she already was.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:20 pm

Doctor. wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:Bulma.
Bulma was 16, a teenager (whose age far exceeded Japan's age of consent laws, to boot).
Well where I'm from, that's still underage, so I'm looking at it from my perspective, not from theirs. But if you want to go down that route, it's okay because then he's just a sexual assaulter/harasser.

Anyway, enjoy your fun topic. I've said my piece, people don't agree, carry on.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:20 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: In many people's responses to me, they seem to have overlooked the fact that I mentioned that these are not the qualities of a protagonist/hero and went for, "Well then nobody can write about anything by your logic." That's what people didn't connect the dots about.
You clearly said it was not a matter to joke about because of the people who were raped in the world and within history, then you called us insensitive hermits.
You have the right to do whatever; I'm not telling anyone that they can't express themselves. Just clearing up my post.
Ok, sorry for misunderstanding you.
Last edited by PsionicWarrior on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by Doctor. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:21 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Well where I'm from, that's still underage, so I'm looking at it from my perspective, not from theirs. But if you want to go down that route, it's okay because then he's just a sexual assaulter/harasser.
I put the age of consent part in parenthesis on purpose, since it's not the main point. Bulma was 16, a teenager. That's not pedophilia, regardless if she's underage or not.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by Asura » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:21 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Wait, where the fuck did the notion that Roshi is a pedophile come from? Are we even on the same page right now? He was completely uninterested when he met Chi-Chi.
Bulma.
PsionicWarrior wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:lol Wow. Kind of ridiculous. Nobody's connecting the dots
Yes, everyone is wrong but you. We have no feelings and shouldn't have a right to speak.
Not at all what i meant. In many people's responses to me, they seem to have overlooked the fact that I mentioned that these are not the qualities of a protagonist/hero and went for, "Well then nobody can write about anything by your logic." That's what people didn't connect the dots about. You have the right to do whatever; I'm not telling anyone that they can't express themselves. Just clearing up my post.
You do realize you're talking about how these aren't the qualities of a protagonist/hero when the main protagonist/hero of Dragon Ball is Goku, right? A guy who selfishly fights just for his own kicks and doesn't even care if he puts other people, the world, or even MULTIPLE UNIVERSES in danger. Not exactly "hero" material either, but since the subject is death and not sex, once again this isn't seen as a big deal.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by rereboy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:21 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Not at all what i meant. In many people's responses to me, they seem to have overlooked the fact that I mentioned that these are not the qualities of a protagonist/hero and went for, "Well then nobody can write about anything by your logic." That's what people didn't connect the dots about. You have the right to do whatever; I'm not telling anyone that they can't express themselves. Just clearing up my post.
When it keeps being told to you that it's not meant to be taken seriously (and it's explained why), but you keep taken it seriously and, furthermore, even say that people that don't take it seriously like you are somehow "wrong", then I would say that it's you that it's not connecting the dots.

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by TheZFighter » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:22 pm

rereboy wrote:
TheZFighter wrote:
DragonBallKing wrote:
The problem is looking at it from a real world perspective instead of a fantasyperspective. Just like the Goku is a terrible father thing should not be looked at from a realistic perspective because the dragon world is so different from ours. Sheesh, when people take gags in a cartoon to seriously. :roll:
Real world or fantasy world, unfortunately its still an old bloke acting rather inappropriately.
Which is not to be taken seriously. Almost all humor has people behaving inappropriately, it's never meant to be taken seriously or meant to be taken as support for those actions.
That may be so, but as I said originally, as a child I didn't take it seriously. In fact, as a child I didn't even pay attention to it really. As an adult I can't help but notice.
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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by rereboy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:24 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Well where I'm from, that's still underage, so I'm looking at it from my perspective, not from theirs.
So, what the author is telling in his story is that Bulma is not underage because that's how the law works in Japan, but you are still going to say that what meant to be told is that Roshi is a pedophile?

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Re: Roshi's antics

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:25 pm

rereboy wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Well where I'm from, that's still underage, so I'm looking at it from my perspective, not from theirs.
So, what the author is telling in his story is that Bulma is not underage because that's how the law works in Japan, but you are still going to say that what meant to be told is that Roshi is a pedophile?
Continue with your quote of what I said; I went on to correct myself. But in case it's not clear, I'm sorry, I take it back -- he's not a pedophile. Still doesn't change my stance. That wasn't the make or break point to my argument.

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