Roshi's antics

[floofychan333]

I have a bizarre relationship with Master Roshi's character because while I love him and have grown attached to him, I can't excuse his perverted behaviour. What he does is basically sexual assault and I don't think children should be exposed to that without somebody telling them that it's wrong and inappropriate. Roshi's behaviour is supposed to be for laughs, which I think is pretty deplorable, but I think most people find his actions funny because of how badly he fails in his pursuits rather than the fan service and inappropriate actions themselves. One can perceive Roshi's behaviour as glorifying sexual assault because he's intended to be liked and portrayed as a strong character in many points in the story. If this is the case, I think it's something we really need to be talking about because (and I hope I'm speaking for everybody here) sexual assault IS NOT OKAY BY ANY MEANS.

What's also troubling is that the male characters seem to be happily complicit to let Master Roshi go after their wives/girlfriends. Goku allows Roshi to harass Chi-Chi while Kuririn allows him to lust over Android 18, and the male characters in the original DB and early DBZ don't interfere in his pursuit of Bulma and Lunch. I can understand Goku and Kuririn not understanding that that's a problem but I think Yamcha and Tenshinhan should have known better and tried to do something about his actions. I'm not even sure if Akira Toriyama or the filler writers at Toei were taking the fact that Roshi's actions are appalling and blatantly inappropriate. Though the cultural differences and time period do play a role in this, we need to acknowledge that it's not okay by any means today.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what people have to say about this. My personal perspective is that I love Roshi's character but condemn his actions, which I think is justifiable. I thought this would be relevant to bring up in a time period where people are speaking up against sexual assault, and unfortunately we have that right in our beloved franchise. I understand that many people might be reluctant to criticize Dragon Ball, but I think we need to acknowledge that Roshi's perverted behaviour is a darker part of what we love. As usual when bringing up a social issue on Kanzenshuu, I'm expecting some backlash (and am fully expecting to be called an SJW), but I think this needs to be said.

[precita]

Well Roshi's character is based on the "dirty old man" trope. Keep in mind a lot of the excessive Roshi scenes in the anime were Toei filler. Some stuff was from Toriyama, but a lot of the stuff is Toei's doing as well.

[Jackalope89]

Ah, Roshi. He and Happosai (Ranma 1/2) basically set the standard for pervy old men in shounen anime.

I just take their antics for what they're meant to be; light-hearted humor with the perpetrators set to get their comeuppance.

[Vijay]

As a kid, I despised Roshi. Both his character & his antics

Like who cares about bald grandpa, when Goku's kickin ass

As of my early 20's, I start to have a newfound respect for Roshi's character.

Dude's been living/mastering Martial Art forever. Perversion could've been his genetic mutation. But imagine a human who has been trained by Great Mutaito Sama, fought offsprings of legendary Piccolo Daimou, survived against Piccolo, trained & subsequently drank Karin's Holy Water, created powerful signature move (Kamehameha) after 50 freakin year...phew! Like dude....REALLY????

I know Toriyama introduced us Dragon World via Goku, the lead protagonists eyes. But still, think about far accomplished & superior human/martial art pugilist taking backseat as "jiji" & play double-role as Jackie Chun just to instill the sense of "train to be strong for life" for his disciples. Talk about low-profile.

[Cipher]

By virtue of Toriyama being a great comic (I mean in the sense of delivering jokes, not as in he's drawing a comic) artist, Kame-Sennin related gags in the manga are often funny, but also one of the worst things about the series for reasons outlined in the opening post. The character often gets his comeuppance, but the tone does a lot of "Oh, you!" normalizing for sexual harassment and assault.

A lot of the added bits in the anime are, unfortunately, neither funny nor in remotely good taste. (And they're not in cool bad taste either; it's just shitty.)

It's one of those things you just have to recognize in the series and take as it is—the product of a different era. It's good to recognize that it may not have been a great route to take, despite loving the series as a whole.

I don't know what the fuck was going on with a certain 2017 episode of Super though. Yikes.

[DragonBallFoodie]

Ah, Roshi. He and Happosai (Ranma 1/2) basically set the standard for pervy old men in shounen anime.

I just take their antics for what they're meant to be; light-hearted humor with the perpetrators set to get their comeuppance.

That's obviously what humorous anime perverts are supposed to be. It's not like they chase weaklings after all, the DB ladies beat the crap out of Roshi whenever he pulled his stunts.

That said, DBS didn't get what they were doing with Yurin and maybe Caway. Both those encounters were awkward, Yurin's more than Caway IMO.

[Majin Jator]

I understand that you needed to get this off your chest, but besides letting off steam I don't understand what is the goal of your post.
I think it is safe to say that everyone here condemns sexual assault. That should go without saying, and we don't need every poster to come here to say that.
If you're pointing at some sort of censoring, well, then I disagree.

First, because when watching an older work we have to understand the context, not cutting out the parts that don't fit our current views.
Second, as someone who watched Roshi's antics as a kid, I've to say that I never saw it as an acceptable behaviour, and any child who doesn't understand that quickly will receive a scold that he will never forget.
Of course, is not entirely harmless. It normalizes the indifference towards some unacceptable attitudes. But that's what parents and school are for.

I'm not sure what do you mean when you say you condemn his actions because, well, he's a fictional character. Perviness has always been part of him, although I agree that nowadays it should be handled in a more subtle/tasteful/funny way than it was done in the Yurin's infamous episode.
Roshi's has been through some character development through his training to overcome his "urges". Maybe that is Toei's way to handle the issue and this is the last time we'll see his pervy antics. Maybe not. It's ok for me either way as long as they don't make an unfunny ankward mess like the last time.

[Ringworm128]

Here we go again.

A child watching Roshi's antics should already know it's wrong without having it explained to them. When I was very little I watched Johnny Bravo's antics on Cartoon Network and Brock on Pokemon, I never needed some talk to know not to harass women. I also grew up watching Homer Simpson strangle his son but you don't see me wrapping my hands around kids necks.

[Michsi]

One of the oddest things with DB Super is how it dredged up this side of his character when you barely got to see it anymore in the later part of the original DB. It gave me the impression they became aware of how bad it made him look and stopped with that type of humor.

But when you have characters like MHA's Mineta in this day and age it makes me realize the funny pervert trope isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Cipher]

This is the part where everyone jumps in to give their hallowed two cents to claim that because media rarely leads to cases of direct emulation (no shit; bonus points for this taking the form of an anecdote), it can't possibly contribute to an atmosphere of dismissal for behavior that already lies within the margins of acceptability, and honestly, those are two completely different things so fuck that noise.

This is an evergreen topic because so long as we like the series enough to regularly sing its praises, we also owe it to ourselves to discuss and re-discuss some of its more serious flaws. Actual flaws, that aren't like, "Lol Toriyama sure did switch gears in the Cell arc," and various other trite shit that for some reason deserves a hundred threads while this topic always sees people pipe up to claim it doesn't even deserve one.

[ABED]

This is the part where everyone jumps in to give their hallowed two cents to claim that because media rarely leads to cases of direct emulation (no shit; bonus points for this taking the form of an anecdote), it can't possibly contribute to an atmosphere of dismissal for behavior that already lies within the margins of acceptability, and honestly, those are two completely different things so fuck that noise.

This is an evergreen topic because so long as we like the series enough to regularly sing its praises, we also owe it to ourselves to discuss and re-discuss some of its more serious flaws. Actual flaws, that aren't like, "Lol Toriyama sure did switch gears in the Cell arc," and various other trite shit that for some reason deserves a hundred threads while this topic always sees people pipe up to claim it doesn't even deserve one.

Your on a forum for a show that contains jokes about poop with a face on a stick. Are you surprised that most members don't wish to have a serious discussion about the acceptability of Roshi's antics here? I find it odd when anyone uses terms like "pointless" on this forum. You are discussing a story that hardly takes itself seriously.

In any event, everyone can agree that Roshi grabbing a girl's butt or breast isn't okay, but in the context of a TV series, I have little issue with the characters not making a big deal about it just like I don't have a problem with stories about vigilantism. Vigilantism in real life is dangerous and immoral, but that doesn't stop me from cheering when Frank Castle takes an aluminum bat to a guy selling child pornography.

[Majin Jator]

This is the part where everyone jumps in to give their hallowed two cents to claim that because media rarely leads to cases of direct emulation (no shit; bonus points for this taking the form of an anecdote), it can't possibly contribute to an atmosphere of dismissal for behavior that already lies within the margins of acceptability, and honestly, those are two completely different things so fuck that noise.

.

We acknowledge that, we just don't think DB has such an impact on the said atmosphere. If Roshi was a real-life person, and people shrugged at his behaviour and elected him president, I would be inclined to agree that this is a serious issue. Since we are talking about a japanese cartoon for kids, I can't see it as a big deal. Sociologists and other experts can probably prove me wrong, and I'll accept it, but since we are chattering on an online forum allow me to talk from my personal experience.

[DBZfan29]

We can all agree that Kame-sen'nin's actions are wrong and like many have said they are just for laughs and no one is looking at him like a role model when watching the show as a kid. Personally, I've always liked his antics because they reminded me of my grandfather (who, let me make clear, doesn't do any of this stuff but they both love "pichi-pichi girls"). I think the original poster might have been trying to make his character a part of the current movement against sexual harassment which I think is just wrong. He's a character who does stupid things from an 80s TV show in Japan. I don't think we need to make him go away forever like the men who have had allegations about them come to light recently. But, just because I am fascinated by the parallels the more I think about it, does anyone else see how he, like so many journalists, actors, etc. who have done disgusting things, also deserves some respect? His character is pretty awesome when you think of all he's done. He taught Goku his signature move! But anyway, we hear from friends of the men who have done nasty things say they don't know how to feel about the allegations when they have never seen that side of them. There has even long been a debate about how people should view works by, for example, Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby when they have been accused of doing really bad things too. If you want to make the case, he sort of represents that whole idea. Should we look at his accomplishments without thinking about his actions? But again, I don't think we should be overthinking his character so much so just ignore everything I wrote.

[TheGreatness25]

I never found any humor in that stuff. I think if he was just the great martial arts teacher with a great love for magazines, that's fine, but everything else was pretty terrible. Just because the joke is that he's a dirty old man, doesn't mean that I should excuse everything that he did. I'm not even coming at it from any angle other than that stuff never entertained me just had me wishing that I could skip ahead past all of his nonsense.

While Toei is responsible for a lot of stuff, the whole, "Oh hey teenage girl, let me see your underwear!" stuff is really overboard. Forget that in real life, you wouldn't want to be around this guy, and forget about what affect it would have on people blah blah, I just personally never found humo in anything of the sort. Perverted humor and toilet humor never really landed with me.

[Bullza]

Ain't no flaw to me, I find it funny.

We've become PC enough as it is in today's age where everyone is offended over little thing, I'd rather it not ruin a significant part of Master Roshi's character just because some people on Tumblr might cry about it.

If he wants to have a good old squeeze of Vados' ass after a well earned victory then let him go right ahead.

[VegettoEX]

We've become PC enough as it is in today's age where everyone is offended over little thing, I'd rather it not ruin a significant part of Master Roshi's character just because some people on Tumblr might cry about it.

This is a gross reduction of the issue and a very public admission that you are unwilling and/or unable to consider and have the actual conversation.

[Lord Beerus]

I talked about this in my personal assessment of the Dragon Ball anime and manga chapters that representative of it. Roshi's pervy antics are initially charming because they're handled well, as their brief and perfectly placed in the story without disrupting the flow of the story. But as the story progresses, the gags become longer, more out of place and just bad in taste. Like, did the story in the Red Ribbon Army arc need to take a detour so that we could be treated to Roshi finding a way to have a peek at Bulma as she's going to the toilet? That's not charming or endearing, it's just disgusting.

[JulieYBM]

I always find the 'concern' over this topic as eye-rolling as I find the hand-waving of the concern because I feel both sides just get away from the matter at hand. That matter at hand being that this is a work of fiction and exists primarily to express simple feelings from the creator. I do feel the subject of sexuality and lewdness is unfairly targeted in these sort of discussions because the west (or mainstream media and outlets in general) have such a repressed sense of sexuality that any sort of art that treats the idea nonchalantly becomes the subject of instant damnation. Using Dragon Ball as an outlet to further this damnation of open sexuality is, I offer, worthy of the rolling of one's eyes. Nevertheless, I definitely find the hand-waving of the topic as being illegitimate based on the notion that any and everyone who complains are merely 'social justice warriors' or 'Tumblr users' also worthy of the rolling of my eyes. Can't we do better than that?

That being said, it's fiction. Toriyama just wants to draw some titties and pussy and imagine a world where it's okay to be so openly deviant and one can go on with their business after they've had a little fun. I don't think that's wrong, whether you're a man or a woman, so long as nobody real gets hurt along the way.

[Bullza]

We've become PC enough as it is in today's age where everyone is offended over little thing, I'd rather it not ruin a significant part of Master Roshi's character just because some people on Tumblr might cry about it.

This is a gross reduction of the issue and a very public admission that you are unwilling and/or unable to consider and have the actual conversation.

It's sporadic light hearted humour in a cartoon. It's done in Family Guy, to a greater extent with Herbert being a old pervert who lusts over the underage Chris Griffin.

It's a part of most teen comedies that have been made in the past 30 years.

It's just meant to be a bit of humour, to make you laugh, not to have some serious debate over sexual assault and it being right or wrong. Obviously it's wrong, hence the humour.

[Kokonoe]

I always find the 'concern' over this topic as eye-rolling as I find the hand-waving of the concern because I feel both sides just get away from the matter at hand. That matter at hand being that this is a work of fiction and exists primarily to express simple feelings from the creator. I do feel the subject of sexuality and lewdness is unfairly targeted in these sort of discussions because the west (or mainstream media and outlets in general) have such a repressed sense of sexuality that any sort of art that treats the idea nonchalantly becomes the subject of instant damnation. Using Dragon Ball as an outlet to further this damnation of open sexuality is, I offer, worthy of the rolling of one's eyes. Nevertheless, I definitely find the hand-waving of the topic as being illegitimate based on the notion that any and everyone who complains are merely 'social justice warriors' or 'Tumblr users' also worthy of the rolling of my eyes. Can't we do better than that?

That being said, it's fiction. Toriyama just wants to draw some titties and pussy and imagine a world where it's okay to be so openly deviant and one can go on with their business after they've had a little fun. I don't think that's wrong, whether you're a man or a woman, so long as nobody real gets hurt along the way.

No one is complaining that breasts are being exposed, people justifiably so are disgusted by an old man creeping on young women to the point he's watching Bulma on the toilet, or in Super, him sexually harassing Yurin throughout the episode and even kidnapping her all as part of some "joke". It's not funny, it's not fanservice, it's just creepy and weird.