List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
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Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
I think the biggest thing wrong with Dragon Ball Evolution is the lack of Toriyama's direct involvement, and I'm not talking about them not following his advice. This could arguably apply as an inherent blemish on any Dragon Ball project lacking his distinctive touch, regardless of the medium, but this problem seems more joined at the hip with the medium in question: live action.
Toriyama, as an artist, is an illustrator and a comedian. It is by channeling these two talents, filtered through his personality, attitude, and sense of humor, that he tells the stories he does, the way he does. It's all common adage by this point: he's a whimsically spiteful bastard who likes to amuse himself, writes by the seat of his pants, subverts expectations, names characters in accordance with elaborately thematic puns, writes characters who feel sincere and organic, blends genres incredibly well, etc. It is this personality and style directly from which Dragon Ball sprouted. His personality and style are what make Dragon Ball what it is. Without Toriyama, what is calling itself Dragon Ball is lacking its essence, its soul. This doesn't preclude said work from being good, it simply means that it would feel distinctly "un-Dragon Ball", under the hood. This also doesn't preclude a damn good imitator, but imitations are still imitations.
Animated works, be them adaptations or original, can be used to enhance his manga's artistic value, and I don't think that they come with any inherent blemishes. Voice actors can contribute by using the manga as their script, and animators can contribute by using his panels as storyboards. Toriyama can even provide additional creative input by doing new character designs and making casting decisions.
Live action is a different beast entirely. Toriyama's not a director, and he's not a cinematographer. Unlike animation, his manga can't form as much of the foundation of a live action film. At the very least, though, this revival has shown that, in addition to things he already contributes to for animated works, he can write the screenplay. However, if you wanted a truly proper live action Dragon Ball, you'd also need someone who could direct in a way that delivers jokes the same way he does, a cinematographer who could shoot action sequences in a way that flows like his manga panels, and so on. The product, even if in a different medium, needs to retain that core, that signature artistic creative essence, as much as possible, in order to be a truly authentic extension into a new medium, in order to really feel right. Beyond that, you can't really capture his art. That's something that couldn't really be imitated by, or translated to, live action, I don't think. Likewise doesn't preclude some damn good attempts.
Hot Take:
I'm actually morbidly curious to see how Toriyama's directing and cinematography would look. I know they're well outside of his trade and comfort zone, and it would probably not be very good (and no, I'm not suggesting that making Toriyama do everything himself would be the right thing to do), but I just want to see what it would be like. He's still a comedian, after all. It couldn't be that bad, right?
Toriyama, as an artist, is an illustrator and a comedian. It is by channeling these two talents, filtered through his personality, attitude, and sense of humor, that he tells the stories he does, the way he does. It's all common adage by this point: he's a whimsically spiteful bastard who likes to amuse himself, writes by the seat of his pants, subverts expectations, names characters in accordance with elaborately thematic puns, writes characters who feel sincere and organic, blends genres incredibly well, etc. It is this personality and style directly from which Dragon Ball sprouted. His personality and style are what make Dragon Ball what it is. Without Toriyama, what is calling itself Dragon Ball is lacking its essence, its soul. This doesn't preclude said work from being good, it simply means that it would feel distinctly "un-Dragon Ball", under the hood. This also doesn't preclude a damn good imitator, but imitations are still imitations.
Animated works, be them adaptations or original, can be used to enhance his manga's artistic value, and I don't think that they come with any inherent blemishes. Voice actors can contribute by using the manga as their script, and animators can contribute by using his panels as storyboards. Toriyama can even provide additional creative input by doing new character designs and making casting decisions.
Live action is a different beast entirely. Toriyama's not a director, and he's not a cinematographer. Unlike animation, his manga can't form as much of the foundation of a live action film. At the very least, though, this revival has shown that, in addition to things he already contributes to for animated works, he can write the screenplay. However, if you wanted a truly proper live action Dragon Ball, you'd also need someone who could direct in a way that delivers jokes the same way he does, a cinematographer who could shoot action sequences in a way that flows like his manga panels, and so on. The product, even if in a different medium, needs to retain that core, that signature artistic creative essence, as much as possible, in order to be a truly authentic extension into a new medium, in order to really feel right. Beyond that, you can't really capture his art. That's something that couldn't really be imitated by, or translated to, live action, I don't think. Likewise doesn't preclude some damn good attempts.
Hot Take:
I'm actually morbidly curious to see how Toriyama's directing and cinematography would look. I know they're well outside of his trade and comfort zone, and it would probably not be very good (and no, I'm not suggesting that making Toriyama do everything himself would be the right thing to do), but I just want to see what it would be like. He's still a comedian, after all. It couldn't be that bad, right?
Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
F this. The thread just turned into opinions of the movie. I give up
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Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
You don't really get to dictate what other members are going to do and contribute using posts as a stepping-stone. If you're not actually looking for a conversation, perhaps you would have been better off making a list as a blog post or otherwise putting up on a personal web page?bigray wrote:F this. The thread just turned into opinions of the movie. I give up
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Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
I'm not sure how you expect us to construct a list of "things wrong with Dragon Ball Evolution" without talking about the film, the problems we have with it, or why we have those problems with it. You're literally asking us for our opinions on the film.bigray wrote:F this. The thread just turned into opinions of the movie. I give up
And even if all you're fishing for is a list of changes, then "Toriyama didn't make it or have really any role in its creation" should be on there too. I think that's a far more important, and damning, difference than any changes to in-universe minutiae. Again, Dragon Ball's charm is Toriyama's charm. And when you remove Toriyama's charm, what's left isn't going to retain what makes Dragon Ball as distinct, interesting, and appealing as it is. All of the picture-perfect window dressing and background lore consistency in the world doesn't make up for that.
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Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
I think the biggest problem Dragon Ball Evolution has is that it wants to Dragon Ball, but at the same time, it doesn't. Like, it takes several elements of what makes Dragon Ball such a wonderful, charming and endearing story, and their reiteration and adaption of them are mostly so far off-base from the source material that you would sometimes barely recognize whether the Dragon Ball Evolution is an adaption of Dragon Ball or not. And that's not taking into consideration the generally poor acting, the underwhelming CGI effects and the uninspiring fight scenes.
Spoiler:
Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
bigray wrote:EDIT: hmmm i didnt really want to turn this into a opinion thread. just wanted to list the differences from the original... guess its too late.
So, all you wanted was to do a list and show the differences and that's it? No replies needed? That's not how things work here. We will discuss the issue, and there is no discussion without an opinion.bigray wrote:F this. The thread just turned into opinions of the movie. I give up
Unless you wanted us to make a list showing more differences too? That kind of discussion has nothing substantial though.
Re: List of things wrong with Dragon ball evolution
I think I stuffed up when I made the title 'list of things they got wrong.' Best should have been 'list of changes from the original.' Then listed the things they changed, didn't change and missed altogether. As VegettoEX mentioned before.Grimlock wrote:bigray wrote:EDIT: hmmm i didnt really want to turn this into a opinion thread. just wanted to list the differences from the original... guess its too late.So, all you wanted was to do a list and show the differences and that's it? No replies needed? That's not how things work here. We will discuss the issue, and there is no discussion without an opinion.bigray wrote:F this. The thread just turned into opinions of the movie. I give up
Unless you wanted us to make a list showing more differences too? That kind of discussion has nothing substantial though.
When I inserted the word 'wrong' it opened up to saying anything wrong with the movie, but I was intending to direct it to misalignments with the original. Most of the thread was good anyway, was just not in a good mood when reading it and my feelings got messed up.