Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:03 pm

while many see Raditz has Mr. Expositon it works
Many have brought up this point, and imply that it's a bad thing that he delivers a lot of exposition. I don't see why, though.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by gaberparadiso » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:01 pm

Episode 4

General thoughts: this is undoubtedly a step up over the previous entries. We finally get to observe the first big showdown of DBZ, Goku-Piccolo vs Raditz. I liked the use of unique techniques, like the Homing Kamehameha and Makankosappo, and Raditz's Double Sunday and Saturday Crush (there are no official names, so I use those from Budokai 3). Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of Ueda's direction here, as I think the main flaw of this episode is its TIMING: the fillers with Bulma and Chichi come immediately after two dramatic scenes: the former after Piccolo losing his arm and, even worse, the latter after Goku getting stomped by Raditz. I don't know whether his intentions were satirical or not, but I simply don't agree with this choice.

Entertainment factor: an action-centered episode clearly entertains more, but again, those two interruptions almost ruined it.

Animation: Ueda's storyboard is a bit bland. Even if he used a different perspective when Goku flew up to see Gohan during the 1st half, I fail to spot some standout glimpses. Kinda forgettable. As for Takeuchi, considering this was the first Seigasha DBZ episode, his supervision is mostly strong like in DB. Although, we can identify some unique styles, like Masahiro Shimanuki on the first clash until Raditz kicks Goku and Piccolo, and Piccolo attacking Raditz with his Makankosappo, Yoko Iizuka on Raditz using his Double Sunday (the beam which destroys Piccolo's arm), or Goku using his homing Kamehameha against his brother and also a new name, Kazuya Hisada, who animated Raditz's Saturday Crush on Goku. Takeuchi himself provided some key animation, too, probably during the scene where Goku confronts Raditz to buy some time, which looks pretty choppy and conservative. Again, the animation quality depends purely on talent.

Music: again, it's fine. But M7** is being overused.

Overall score: 7,5/10, pretty entertaining episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Ajay » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:55 pm

ABED wrote:
while many see Raditz has Mr. Expositon it works
Many have brought up this point, and imply that it's a bad thing that he delivers a lot of exposition. I don't see why, though.
I'm not really seeing that negative implication in people's posts.

I can't speak for everyone of course, but at least from what I'm reading (and my own perspective), it's being brought up, not because it's bad, but because it had the potential to be bad, and is very much not.

Like you said yourself, it's not a case of a character existing for no other than to deliver plot dumps, he's got his own motivations, he kick starts the drama for the start of this arc, and hey, he's pretty cool, too!

Much like with Goku Black turning out to not just be a boring Evil Goku, it's nice to acknowledge what something could have been, and what separates it from that.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:27 am

#1: Dragon Ball Episode 154?

I started watching Dragon Ball with the Abridged series. I never grew up with it as I was too young during its original run here in Australia, and Kai has never aired on an free-to-air channel. I thought it was good, and I eventually caught up to it by watching clips on YouTube, as well as reading the original 16 tankobon.

Language: Japanese, using American Dragon Box

Thoughts: The tone of this episode really brings me back to old Dragon Ball, with the lush and beautiful forests of Mount Paozu. Raditts’ ship (Yes, that’s how I spell it) flying past the sun from Makafushigi Adventure is another great touch. Like many others have pointed out, even though the “Z” has been added, and there are new openings, endings, as well as a new BGM series, it still feels like Dragon Ball. Although it feels a bit too stressed out, you’ve gotta admit that apart from the crying, Gohan is just so Gosh Darn adorable. It is also one of the few moments when the anime PURPOSELY foreshadowed anything, that of course being Gohan’s power. The introduction of Raditts is also interesting. It’s not as if we even knew about aliens, aside those from Dr. Slump, existing in the Dragon Ball universe, and then all of a sudden, some bloke comes outta the middle of nowhere, kills the strongest character in all of fiction, and then proceeds to scare the living daylights outta Piccolo.

M7** is an amazing collection of BGM. The motifs for Piccolo, Raditts, Vegeta, Gohan, and the many renditions of Cha-La Head Cha-La are all great. My favourite from this episode would either be M726 or M741. The animation would be great, however, for some reason, Gohan and Goku just don’t look right. I don’t know, maybe it’s their eyes.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:12 pm

gaberparadiso wrote:Episode 2

General thoughts: I guess this one is totally fine. We get to hear of Goku's origin, who apparently has an older brother. And I have to be honest, Raditz is an interesting character, way more than Nappa. Maybe due to being the main character's relative. It's a shame we only see him in 5 episodes + filler flashbacks. However, WHY is Goku so dense? Even after Kami removed his tail back in DB, and after his friends asking him about Gohan, he'd still not realized Saiyans turned into Oozarus during a full moon.

Entertainment factor: it's fine, I guess. There was no pointless filler, so I'm okay with it.

Animation: the only distinctive aspect was Kasai's storyboard: it had interesting perspective and gave depth to the episode. To be fair, Aoshima in DBZ is hit and miss: while I like how he draws Bulma's eyes, I hate how he makes characters without a tooth, especially in Krillin's case. Animation-wise, it's conservative, too, as they repeated the Raditz flying bit more than twice, and also Gohan's crying while Raditz was holding him. But I guess it's normal, since most of Aoshima DB episodes were pretty conservative.

Music: this episode has a really weird music placement: first off, they reused M726, M727 and M728 TWICE, and some of these BGMs did sound distorted. Moreover, the unreleased M637 (played during Korin's lesson to Goku in movie 3) was high-pitched for some reason.

Overall score: 7/10, clearly better than the first one.
We know Goku is slow, however I have more issues with his stupid friends just bloody tell him, instead of being all secret like, Gohan having tail means his life could be in literal danger like his grandpa's but nooooo they're all still being coy about it. Honestly this episode makes me question their "friendship" if not for DB moreover I do wonder if 5 year old me questioned that when Z aired since obviously didn't know about DB then, hmm.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by gaberparadiso » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:53 pm

Episode 5

General thoughts: so BRUTAL. Raditz's death is perhaps one of the most painful of the entire series, and I really like it because of this. Also, the other two Saiyans are introduced, Vegeta and Nappa, who share a nice dialogue about hybrid warriors and Super Saiyans are mentioned for the very first time. What really stands out here is Piccolo's character: I believe this episode is already showing his change during the 2nd half, as he's shown not smirking about a nearly dying Goku. And instead, his sensible side is a highlight here, as he immediately realizes why Goku's body vanished.

Entertainment factor: whilst being less action-packed than the last one, still pretty enjoyable.

Animation: Takenouchi's storyboard was kinda noteworthy here, I liked his usage of different points of view, especially on wide range. These 5 episodes were overall pretty faithful to the manga version, especially on sceneries, like the one of Piccolo charging his Makankosappo, in both eps. 4 and 5. Art-wise, it's another solid Last House episode, possibly thanks to Saiyan arc softer model sheets from Maeda. In terms of animation, the two highlight bits are animated by Naotoshi Shida and Tai'ichiro Ohara: the former animated Gohan's powerful headbutt on Raditz and also Raditz knocking his nephew out (he has a distinctive timing and draws thicker eyelines, with more accurate shading). The latter handles Goku's death and the last part of Vegeta and Nappa's dialogue on the 2nd half (he has the habit of drawing softer-looking character). As for the Makankosappo scene, it's really deceiving. It's pretty tough to deduce who actually made it.

Music: decent placement. I sound repetitive, but they keep using M7** collection over and over again. Luckily, we can hear a few of DB soundtracks, like the ending bit of M201 when Goku passes to the next dimension, or M512 when Goku's friends mourn about his loss.

Overall score: 7,5/10. Good episode. Maybe its direction is a bit dated.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by ABED » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:54 pm

But they aren't doing so out of malice. I get your point, but being afraid to tell someone something doesn't make you a bad friend.

GOku and Raditz were pierced through the chest in very brutal fashion. Did anyone find it weird that they cut away from Piccolo actually finishing Raditz off?
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Taisa732 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:32 pm

Language: Japanese

General Thoughts: It's the start of a new chapter and we see how Goku and his friends have been since we've seen them at the tournament. Most importantly we are introduced to two new characters that are the main focus of the first episodes. While I like Gohan's introduction, it dose drag out at times. Despite that it foreshadows a lot of his distinctive traits that we'll get to know the more the story progresses. In particular the scene at the waterfall tells a lot without spoiling what's to come.
What I generally really like about the saiyan saga is the build up for the main villain and for our hero. Vegeta and Goku powers are slowly reviled across the saga thanks to the interactions with other charterers. Raditz is the first step and he delivers the message. You have the previous villain, Piccolo, tremble in fear when he has to face the new guy, and Goku so scared he doesn't know what to do. Worst thing is, Raditz is nothing compared to his comrades, like he himself states. That alone makes Nappa and Vegeta scary.
Then there's Goku. What I like about him here is that it's the first time we see him as a dad, someone responsible for someone else. What I like is the fact that you can see how Gohan is important for Goku. When Raditz takes him away Goku is terrified, not for himself but for his son. He is consonantly asking about him, wondering how his son is and if he is ok. Generally with a strong opponent Goku wouldn't have problems, but here someone he really cares for and that he is responsible for is in danger, so for him more than anyone is essential to win, even at the cost of his one life.

Entertainment Factor: Like I said, Gohan introduction in ok, but it drags on every now and then. There is a bit to much of him whimpering, but other that it tells you a lot about the character. The fact that he is smart and a curios, but also insecure and really needs mummy and daddy to constantly hold his hand.
What I personally would have done differently is the reveal of his identity. Instead of telling us who he is, they could have slowly disclose his identity bit buy bit. We could have followed him for awhile making us wonder who this little kid with a tale was. Granted it would become obvious very quickly, but the impact of hearing Gohan calling Goku “dad” on screen the first time would have been more shocking for the people how watched Dragon Ball since the beginning.
In this five episodes this is my only “timing” issue. The rest is still great as it is.

Animation: Admittedly there isn't a lot of animation in this first fight of the show. A side maybe for a couple of punches between Goku and Raditz in episode 4, the rest is a lot of talking and stills. With that said thou characters emotions are really clear and understandable. You can feel their terror or their pain. Goku's death is really impactful along side with Crilin and his friends reaction to a sad moment, even if we and they know that he'll be back soon thanks to the dragon balls.
What I really want to point out are the backgrounds. They are just so beautiful. Basically they are paintings were characters can act in front of. Obviously so, but its not something everybody pays attention to because they are well... in the background.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:29 pm

Preface- Watching via the Japanese language, most of the time however I will be referring to mostly dub names and terms they're just too ingrained and just easier for me to write. When talking about the JPN cast I will mostly be referring to their char names since I only ever watch anime dubbed so I am not similar at all with Japanese VA's beyond the big one's like Nozawa Horikawa etc.

#3

General Thoughts:
Strategic tensions!
First things first this episode was a massive missed opportunity to deal with the moral dilemma that Raditz put on the table, in fact as soon as Raditz leaves it is never mentioned amongst the cast at all they immediately shun it away, Goku is not a hero and so this would be a perfect opportunity to showcase this, by having Goku actually ponder what Raditz says and it will further show how bad the situation actually is! Goku could be like I will pile up bodies and then when his guards up I grab his tail and once we beat him we can then slowly start to wish these people back to life. I don't expect them to go through with it but for them to deliberate it that would have been great.

But the episode does well to establish tensions via the limits of the Dragon Balls, there shan't be any quick fixes if Roshi or Krillin perish. Then enter Piccolo, forcing to team up with Raditz again showcasing he is a threat not some plot device messenger, this is serious.

More good subtle teasing of Gohan's powers here, then the penny drops when Raditz realises that his scouter isn't malfunctioning, however there is still some ambiguity surrounding Gohan which was missing re: #1 and Goku's past.

Another thing I like is how quick Goku is able to recover at the start, showcasing his natural stamina well, and in turn this makes for example in the current arc of DBS sense in how Goku is still able to put up fights despite being depleted, good stuff.

Entertainment Factor:
I guess seeing the cast trying to strategise is interesting, but again for the third episode in a row there is very little action here and the episode leaves you as soon as things truly get spicy, and I can only imagine that week feeling painfully long for anime-only Japanese watchers back then!

Animation:
Not much action...again....and unlike the other two episodes not a fan of the art here, Piccolo looks pretty demonic that's good but Goku and Raditz not a fan of how they're drawn here more the issue with how the hair is drawn on these two than anything. The SB didn't seem as strong as #2's too.

Music:
I can't think of anything particular to say here.

Japanese cast:
Okay this is where the Raditz VA shows his stuff that laugh as we flies away! Finally hear more from Piccolo definitely sounds pretty different to current DBS almost hard to recognise that is the same VA, interested to hear how he plays Piccolo once he turns fully good.

Overall score and opinion:
5/10. Just felt the episode was a huge missed opportunity to deal with something significant, however subtle teases and the team up of Piccolo just about make this episode average and bearable.

I really hope this picks up soon, not a great start at all, people in Japan has basically wait 3 weeks for this? Eek.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:51 am

#2: Exposition Everywhere!

Language: Japanese, again, which I will be using for all 291 episodes.

Thoughts: Too. Much. Exposition. I can handle dialogue heavy episodes, but the amount of Dialogue in this is ludicrous. Unlike episode 36, episode 2 is just a small reunion, and then for a majority of the episode it’s just Raditts talking. Episode 36 at least has some banter besides the “nani!?” crap that is pulled here. I will admit though, Kuririn assuming that he’s just drunk and getting whipped in the face in the tail is probably the best part of the episode, as well as the most memorable part. That or Raditts’ speech about how planet Vegeta was destroyed, with a Saturn-like planet being blown up with Raditts looking on. The Animations alright, but I feel like I can’t really tell because of how many boring shots there are, with the characters standing in one pose the entire time. the BGM, as always in these early episode are great. My favourite track from this episode in particular is M705. M737 is also great for the cliffhanger of Gohan being taken away by Raditts. One thing I must say is that at least this information is memorable, and sets up the next 33 episodes. Hell, 289 more like it.

I’d rate this episode a 6/10.

[spoiler]P.S I forgot to mention it yesterday, but episode 1 is 7.5/10.[/spoiler]
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:50 am

Random question but do these music tracks really not have actual names? And then how are you guys able to remember all these numbers?!?

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:33 am

Too. Much. Exposition
There is a lot, but it's well done. Raditz has a reason to tell the information. He's not giving it just because the author feels he needs to impart the info to the audience, unlike say Cell's exposition dump when we first meet him. Raditz is trying to recruit Goku, so it makes sense that he would convince him of the truth.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by The gr » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:26 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:[spoiler]Preface- Watching via the Japanese language, most of the time however I will be referring to mostly dub names and terms they're just too ingrained and just easier for me to write. When talking about the JPN cast I will mostly be referring to their char names since I only ever watch anime dubbed so I am not similar at all with Japanese VA's beyond the big one's like Nozawa Horikawa etc.

#3

General Thoughts:
Strategic tensions!
First things first this episode was a massive missed opportunity to deal with the moral dilemma that Raditz put on the table, in fact as soon as Raditz leaves it is never mentioned amongst the cast at all they immediately shun it away, Goku is not a hero and so this would be a perfect opportunity to showcase this, by having Goku actually ponder what Raditz says and it will further show how bad the situation actually is! Goku could be like I will pile up bodies and then when his guards up I grab his tail and once we beat him we can then slowly start to wish these people back to life. I don't expect them to go through with it but for them to deliberate it that would have been great.

But the episode does well to establish tensions via the limits of the Dragon Balls, there shan't be any quick fixes if Roshi or Krillin perish. Then enter Piccolo, forcing to team up with Raditz again showcasing he is a threat not some plot device messenger, this is serious.

More good subtle teasing of Gohan's powers here, then the penny drops when Raditz realises that his scouter isn't malfunctioning, however there is still some ambiguity surrounding Gohan which was missing re: #1 and Goku's past.

Another thing I like is how quick Goku is able to recover at the start, showcasing his natural stamina well, and in turn this makes for example in the current arc of DBS sense in how Goku is still able to put up fights despite being depleted, good stuff.

Entertainment Factor:
I guess seeing the cast trying to strategise is interesting, but again for the third episode in a row there is very little action here and the episode leaves you as soon as things truly get spicy, and I can only imagine that week feeling painfully long for anime-only Japanese watchers back then!

Animation:
Not much action...again....and unlike the other two episodes not a fan of the art here, Piccolo looks pretty demonic that's good but Goku and Raditz not a fan of how they're drawn here more the issue with how the hair is drawn on these two than anything. The SB didn't seem as strong as #2's too.

Music:
I can't think of anything particular to say here.

Japanese cast:
Okay this is where the Raditz VA shows his stuff that laugh as we flies away! Finally hear more from Piccolo definitely sounds pretty different to current DBS almost hard to recognise that is the same VA, interested to hear how he plays Piccolo once he turns fully good.

Overall score and opinion:
5/10. Just felt the episode was a huge missed opportunity to deal with something significant, however subtle teases and the team up of Piccolo just about make this episode average and bearable.

I really hope this picks up soon, not a great start at all, people in Japan has basically wait 3 weeks for this? Eek[/spoiler].
This is basically my opinion,way worse than the other two,i just hope #4 won't be a snooze.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:13 pm

Before I get into it, I just want to mention I like this format with the questions, prompting me to think about specific aspects of the episodes.

Episodes covered: 1-5

Language: Japanese.

General Thoughts:
* I really love the peaceful themes that play in the first few scenes, especially little Gohan's theme. They remind me of my childhood; I seem to remember similar-sounding themes playing on TV programs I watched as a kid. By contrast, the "Saiyan themes" feel quite striking, almost harsh-sounding (in a good way). Also, I am REALLY GLAD Piccolo's theme - possibly my favorite Kikuchi piece of all - was carried over from pre-Z.
* Those, uh, pink chicken turkey things on the farm are kind of weirdly iconic, especially after encountering them as enemies in Attack of the Saiyans (on Nintendo DS). Our favorite farmer deserved a better fate. I don't suppose he ever gets wished back!
* I love how the sabre-toothed tiger is blatantly voiced by a person. They could've used generic animal noises, but this is much funnier.
* Interesting how the first thing we see Goku do is wood-chopping; as that's the first thing we see him do in the manga.
* The second episode does a decent job of introducing Kuririn, Muten Roshi and Bulma to those who aren't familiar with them yet. We see a tiny bit of Roshi's perverted side (thankfully not too much) and some of his "knowledgeable" side when he explains how (grandpa) Gohan found Goku in the woods. Bulma reminiscing about the Dragon Balls, as well as them mentioning Yamcha, Lunch, and Tenshinhan, suggests there is a rich history between these characters. Oh, how I wish that history wasn't constantly skipped or ignored in video games and such...
* Shame we never got a proper Piccolo vs Goku rematch (though you could argue their Tenka'ichi Budôkai fight WAS their rematch). I love the dynamic between those two.
* Something that caught my attention - Raditz slides down to, and walks back up from his spacepod when putting Gohan in there. Seems like a troublesome thing to do for someone who can fly!
* I like that Gohan getting angry happens off-screen, so that when he bursts out of the pod it really comes out of nowhere.
* Y'know, that planet Vegeta and Nappa are on looks a lot like Namek with its green sky and skinny blue trees... But hey their outfits have the wrong colors, so maybe the planet does too. :shifty:

Entertainment Factor:
I feel obliged to mention that I'm very patient with "filler" these days, especially in series I'm not new to. Sure, when watching DBZ for the first time as a kid, I was eager to get on with the plot and the action. Nowadays though, I really enjoy the slower, quiet moments, spending quality time with these characters I've come to love so much. You will very rarely, if ever, see me hating or seriously criticizing anything here. There's too much hate in the world as it is, and it just stresses me out unnecessarily. So I actively choose to look at things positively rather than negatively, especially when it's just a silly cartoon.

Long story short - I was entertained! These five episodes form a nice little mini-arc. I was actually surprised how quick Piccolo charges the Makankôsappô (twice!) - if this was later in Z, they probably would have stretched that out a lot longer.

Animation:
It's pretty gorgeous for the most part, especially noticeable when the face off against Raditz begins. Love little details like the grass kicking up as Goku and Piccolo run towards him. Animation-wise, Z certainly started off on the right foot. If only it could have maintained this level of quality throughout its entire run!

Favorite character(Felt like including this category for fun): I thought I was going to say Piccolo, if only because Toshio Furukawa yelling MAKANKÔSAPPÔ is the fucking best and will never ever ever get old, but I'm actually leaning towards Raditz. He kinda steals the show with his commanding presence, has hints of an individual personality (the development of which unfortunately gets cut short), and genuinely feels like a foe Goku cannot overcome (by himself).

- Episode 1 is essentially Dragon Ball Episode #154, but how do you feel it serves as an opening to this new chapter? For example, did they do a decent job of introducing and characterising Gohan?
I have mixed feelings about Gohan's introduction - it's nice to get some breathing time with him as opposed to his almost rushed introduction in the manga, but I also like how the manga gets straight into the plot/action. A balance between the two might've been perfect. What's good is that the first episode immediately makes clear that Gohan is not just a mini-Goku (unlike what the episode title suggests), but a very different character. We see him crying, scared, dusting himself off after falling over; little Goku was never like that. The downside here is that your first impression of Gohan could be "annoying and whiny", but hey, it's a little kid! And he's kind of adorable too, right?
The cliffhanger - "Goku is an alien?!" - is pretty good, but obviously has more impact when you've known Goku as an "Earthling" for ages from the pre-Z material.

- How do you find Raditz as a character? He drops a lot of memorable info bombs, but is he memorable outside of that?
I like him as a character and kind of wish he was used more (but not too much; looking at you, Bardock). As the introduction to the Saiyan race, I'd say he is definitely memorable.
When I first got into Dragon Ball, the Freeza arc was airing on TV, so I first heard of Raditz through a flashback. At the time, it gave me the impression that Raditz was a proper supervillain, a very serious threat. Even knowing the full context now, he still is a serious threat. It's rare to see Goku so terrified and helpless.

- Goku's death at the hands of Piccolo arguably has a lot of weight if you have the full context of the series up to this point, but if you saw Z first, do you recall how this impacted you?
Can't really comment on this, as Super Saiyan Goku vs Freeza was going on when I first got into Dragon Ball. When Planet Namek exploded, however, I remember me and my cousins going "Wait, but Goku is the main character... surely he can't die?" I guess we were still innocent little lads not yet familiar with the way Dragon Ball handles death. :)
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:15 pm

ABED wrote:
Too. Much. Exposition
There is a lot, but it's well done. Raditz has a reason to tell the information. He's not giving it just because the author feels he needs to impart the info to the audience, unlike say Cell's exposition dump when we first meet him. Raditz is trying to recruit Goku, so it makes sense that he would convince him of the truth.
Yeah, the exposition dump, although boring, is one of the better ones. By the time we get to the Cell arc, almost all information is given in long, boring monologues, which just feel so tiring. At least this one gets a lot of information out. Episode 36 has the best expositon though, with all the banter making it entertaining
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by ABED » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:33 pm

Bear wrote:
ABED wrote:
Too. Much. Exposition
There is a lot, but it's well done. Raditz has a reason to tell the information. He's not giving it just because the author feels he needs to impart the info to the audience, unlike say Cell's exposition dump when we first meet him. Raditz is trying to recruit Goku, so it makes sense that he would convince him of the truth.
Yeah, the exposition dump, although boring, is one of the better ones. By the time we get to the Cell arc, almost all information is given in long, boring monologues, which just feel so tiring. At least this one gets a lot of information out. Episode 36 has the best expositon though, with all the banter making it entertaining
I wouldn't call it a dump. Dumps by their nature are boring and not good. The problem with the Cell monolog isn't simply sheer length, it's because there is no reason for him to tell Piccolo the information. It's the classic villain monologue trope where he tells the good guy his plan and life story. Piccolo using the ploy to buy time doesn't make him look smart as much as it makes Cell seem stupid. For Raditz, there's no downside of telling Goku the truth.

I don't mind exposition provided that it's interesting.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:46 am

ABED wrote:
Bear wrote:
ABED wrote:There is a lot, but it's well done. Raditz has a reason to tell the information. He's not giving it just because the author feels he needs to impart the info to the audience, unlike say Cell's exposition dump when we first meet him. Raditz is trying to recruit Goku, so it makes sense that he would convince him of the truth.
Yeah, the exposition dump, although boring, is one of the better ones. By the time we get to the Cell arc, almost all information is given in long, boring monologues, which just feel so tiring. At least this one gets a lot of information out. Episode 36 has the best expositon though, with all the banter making it entertaining
I wouldn't call it a dump. Dumps by their nature are boring and not good. The problem with the Cell monolog isn't simply sheer length, it's because there is no reason for him to tell Piccolo the information. It's the classic villain monologue trope where he tells the good guy his plan and life story. Piccolo using the ploy to buy time doesn't make him look smart as much as it makes Cell seem stupid. For Raditz, there's no downside of telling Goku the truth.

I don't mind exposition provided that it's interesting.
Agreed. There’s one thing that MistareFusion said and that is, if it’s unnecessary, or your character starts out with something like “As you probably already know...” then it’s a bad monologue/exposition. I had trouble trying to explain my feelings, as I was trying to both state that it’s not the best, but it’s certainly not the worst. You’ve probably summed it up the best.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:24 am

#3: Blue-haired Raditts!

Thoughts: Better than episode 2 in some regards, but worse in others. It takes a whole episode to get from Raditts taking off with Gohan, until the fight between Goku & Piccolo and Raditts starts. However, I must admit that it doesn’t feel as long, and drawn out as episode 2, with better character interactions. Does any else think that this episode looks off in some regards? Not Uchiyama or Ebisawa bad, but just, off. The shading is generally good, with the ears being the exceptions. Raditts’ hair also has an odd blue tint to it which becomes more noticeable within the second half of the episode. I dunno, perhaps the heads look smaller. The animation, again, is decent, and will be for the majority of this arc. This episode ealso has a “ChiChi Scene.” A scene that is incredibly pointless with a very minor character/characters lamenting over talking about a character/ characters, which can sometimes take up a whole episode (Ep. 137, correct me if I’m wrong, has long flashback) M741, M742 and although not apart of the same set, M611 are the best tracks in this episode bringing the most tension, and fitting the most. Also, no homo, but Goku without his under shirt looks hot. I mean, not that I have a preference for men, because I’m not into them, but modern Goku just looks far too bulky, and less, realistic? His modern clothes, at least in the RoF and Universe 6 arcs just looked very plastic, but I digress.

8/10.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:32 pm

Preface- Watching via the Japanese language, most of the time however I will be referring to mostly dub names and terms they're just too ingrained and just easier for me to write. When talking about the JPN cast I will mostly be referring to their char names since I only ever watch anime dubbed so I am not similar at all with Japanese VA's beyond the big one's like Nozawa Horikawa etc.


#4

General Thoughts:
The main dish is served!

I am split on this episode. It is by far and away the best outta of the 4 so far but again there are things I don't like, but starting with the positives first this time, Raditz is monster, he has been teased as this threat and this team up is supposdly the best chance at victory and Raditz demolishes them! This is why I don't mind Raditz and his exposition he wasn't some chump messenger he had a threat of his own. His speed and power are on great show here, from dodging SBC or taking Goku's Kamehameha. Mr Raditz is in control so it seems. Then boom the tail grab, ahh Goku you smart bastard oh wai- Goku you dumb bastard WHY. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?

F**king hell man this bothers me soooooooo much, NOT ONCE in the previous two episodes did Goku show any kind of feeling to Raditz at all other than he's the enemy to the point he would now suddenly believe his crap spiel, NEVER ONCE did Goku EVER deliberate that oh Raditz is my brother he is a relative what do I do, it was we have to stop him, so why why now did Goku suddenly get a feeling to let go of the tail, the dude had shown no remorse and now he's in a bind he suddenly is BSing how dumb do you have to be Goku to let him go? What is even point of this? Just have Raditz not weak to the tail and thus Goku grabs him and dies that way, instead Toriyama is fixated on writing Goku as an utter idiotic moron. I can't fathom this at all, yes Goku is an idiot but this is too far, thinking forward it is nice to know he hadn't learned from this (looking at you Freeza arc). Goku HAS to know that once he let's go all the power he just had over Raditz would go too therefore Raditz would have no reason to keep his word of leaving... just terrible writing all round.

Also why is Gohan a part of this episode title? Appears when the episode ends.

Entertainment Factor:
I was thoroughly entertained after 3 episodes of ehh was nice to see some pay off here with action.

Animation:
Good for the most part, slick movement, awesome SB love the panning from the ground up shot of Raditz really sells him. Characters are drawn nicely. Only issue I had was I thought the backgrounds were too simplistic kinda takes you out of the scene.

Music:
I can't think of anything particular to say here.

Japanese cast:
Nozawa's laugh as Goku grabs the tail is pretty great!

Overall score and opinion:
6.5/10. That Goku moment is just unforgiving to me. People like to complain about DBS Goku but in heat of battle Goku has not been written as this stupid, words fail me how I am just baffled, thankfully the rest of the episode makes up for that, after 3 episodes of ehh action #4 just about delivers and therefore is a fine episode.

#5 left and the first week is over... and the next 5 look painful... *shudders*

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:24 am

Thoughts: Such a cool fight. I love it so much. It’s a fight were you can remember every detail of it, and this whole episode is animated beautifully. Goku looking down into the crater. The grass flying up as Goku and Piccolo charge towards Raditts. Goku’s Kamehameha. Gohan destroying the Saiyan space pod. The first “Makankosappo!” It’s incredible! Unforetnuantly, the new BGM is already getting boring. The same 5 or so tracks are just being played on loop ever episode. That and, another ChiChi scene, lower this episode from being a ten. Dammit! Now it seems like I’m ranking and comparing the episodes between one another in some sort of list.

9/10.

#5: Makankosappo! Oh and Goku dies

Thoughts: What an episode. Imagine living in Japan and then out of nowhere the main character dies. Goku, who we have seen grow from a child to a man, for 158 episodes, and then he’s killed! Not just that, but we get to see Vegeta, and oh how wrong does he look. His hair’s read, his armours brown and green and almost looks as ugly as Uchiyama’s work. Speak of the devil, he’s the animation supervisor, and just like 4, boy does this episode look good, especially for him. I dunno, maybe I’m being too hard on him, I mean, he’s not the worst. Maybe he just got worse over time. The music sounds better too. More variation with the older M201 and M512 tracks. During the second half of the episode, more variety of tracks are used.

10/10.
Big Green: And you say you're the prince of the Space Warriors.
Vejituh: Oh Big Green, face reali-TY!

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