Pirating Dragon Ball (discussion)

[Puto]

They do use Dragon Box footage... but only for GT and the last two seasons of Z (and only when watching in Japanese).

[Kendamu]

Companies like Funimation don't just get to decide, "Hey! We should just start selling this [product/service] in [different country]," and then just get to do it. They have to pay a lot of money just to license the product in the US. Then, in the case of Dragon Ball, someone else comes along and pays both Toei and Funimation to release Funimation's product in that country. I'm sure intellectual property and licensing laws play into that a lot!

Rather than saying, "Fuck Funimation for not selling this in [country]," maybe you should be looking at the anime licensing groups where you're from and asking them why they're not pulling a MangaUK and getting the Dragon Ball stuff you want in your country.

[Robo4900]

Given just how awful the official releases are, I think it's entirely reasonable to pirate Z. The other two shows have okay releases, so not them, but Z... Yeah, I don't see any moral issues with pirating Z.
(You can say the awful overcontrasting, ugly wobbly lines, photoshop watercolour filters, and widescreen cropping are "The way it was meant to be seen" all you like -- it's never going to be true)

[TheGreatness25]

Well now I disagree. Because you don't like how Funimation's version of Z looks, you support pirating? There are the singles and Dragon Boxes. Sure, the Dragon Boxes cost money, but the option is out there. Or there are the Japanese singles/Dragon Boxes. While I understand pirating when you legitimately don't have access to it, doing so just because you don't like the quality is a different story. If we all did that, then they might not release anything.

Does it suck that the quality is what it is? Oh yes. But you still get the story in two languages for a relatively small price, so now you're moving the argument from "I want to experience the series but can't, so the only way to experience it is to pirate it" to "I can experience the series, but don't want to experience it that way, so I'm just not going to pay for it."

[Robo4900]

Well now I disagree. Because you don't like how Funimation's version of Z looks, you support pirating? There are the singles and Dragon Boxes. Sure, the Dragon Boxes cost money, but the option is out there. Or there are the Japanese singles/Dragon Boxes. While I understand pirating when you legitimately don't have access to it, doing so just because you don't like the quality is a different story. If we all did that, then they might not release anything.

Does it suck that the quality is what it is? Oh yes. But you still get the story in two languages for a relatively small price, so now you're moving the argument from "I want to experience the series but can't, so the only way to experience it is to pirate it" to "I can experience the series, but don't want to experience it that way, so I'm just not going to pay for it."

The Funimation releases are missing 30% of the picture, with which 30% is missing decided by some guy at Funimation in ~2013, and they're trying to sell it to us as "The way it's meant to be seen."

Yes, 4:3 releases do exist, but the Dragon Boxes are impossibly expensive, the singles aren't complete, which -- for how much I'd end up paying for them -- makes them a non-option, and there's no way it should be this complicated to just watch the show without missing 30% of the picture. The show was framed in 4:3 in a particular way because the director decided to compose the shot that way. By cropping it and saying that's fine, you're basically saying that the director added a ton of dead space to the top and bottom of the picture that's irrelevant, and should be removed.

On top of this, the dub you're getting on there is screwed up; ; episodes 68-291 are about half-redubbed, which creates screwy inconsistency, and removes a ton of voice filters. The scripts are still the same, so it only really caters to the oldschool dub fans, except they're not getting the version of the show they remember, because of how much has been redubbed. And fans from the UK and Canada aren't getting their version, because there's no official release for the later Ocean dub.

The "Season" DVDs and Blu-Rays are total failures in every respect, but they're the only legal option for watching the show. The Dragon Boxes are collector's items, the singles are incomplete and really expensive for what they are.

To each their own, but in my opinion, this all leads me to the conclusion that piracy is the only not-awful option for viewing Z. If you buy the new releases, you're basically saying "Yes, I am perfectly fine with how Funimation are handling this release, and consider this release to be worth the money I'm spending on it."

[Gaffer Tape]

There are the singles and Dragon Boxes. Sure, the Dragon Boxes cost money, but the option is out there.

I do have to point out, that if the moral dilemma here is paying for art you like, buying the singles or the Dragon Boxes now isn't going to be putting any money in FUNimation's coffers. Since they're long out of print, even if you spend several hundred dollars on a Dragon Box, the only person you're going to be paying is the after-market seller. So in this particular case, I don't really see much ethical difference between paying a non-rights-holder for a used copy and not paying a rights holder for a used copy. I'm not saying that as a justification, necessarily. I'm just saying that whether you're torrenting or paying DBGokuFAn2869 on eBay, FUNimation isn't seeing a lick of it either way.

Now, if you do find justification in paying off the rights holder by purchasing a legal product, then that would make sense if you were buying a new copy of, say, the Blu-ray seasons or the orange bricks, items that are still in production. But I certainly see where Robo4900 is coming from. I am a firm believer in the "vote with your wallet" mentality. If someone is not putting out a quality product, you shouldn't be spending your money on it. If you are, all you're telling the company is that you are willing and satisfied to do so, and they have no reason to change. Case in point: survey says we prefer 4:3, FUNimation is (naturally) more persuaded by all that hot orange brick money that's still coming in ten years later. So, in my opinion, the dilemma becomes finding a personal ethical justification for pirating or perpetuating the string of poor releases that encourages you to pirate in the first place.

Then again, I bought the Dragon Boxes when they were new and were available, so it was easy for me to both get the release I want and reward the legal rights holders with my money for a job well-done. So it's not really something I'm in a position to judge.

[precita]

There should be jail time for people who pirate things, but then I guess every teenager and 20 something year old would be put behind bars if it happened. Everyone watches stuff online illegally, even if they don't realize what they're doing.

We now live in a world where every movie, cartoon, anime dating back to the beginning of time is online...somewhere. Everyone does this.

[Bajosexto]

Well now I disagree. Because you don't like how Funimation's version of Z looks, you support pirating? There are the singles and Dragon Boxes. Sure, the Dragon Boxes cost money, but the option is out there. Or there are the Japanese singles/Dragon Boxes. While I understand pirating when you legitimately don't have access to it, doing so just because you don't like the quality is a different story. If we all did that, then they might not release anything.

Does it suck that the quality is what it is? Oh yes. But you still get the story in two languages for a relatively small price, so now you're moving the argument from "I want to experience the series but can't, so the only way to experience it is to pirate it" to "I can experience the series, but don't want to experience it that way, so I'm just not going to pay for it."

I kinda agree with you. It's one thing to pirate when you "have" to. But pirating because you don't like the official releases isn't justifiable in my opinion. However, the Dragon Boxes, both FUNimation's and Toei's, are very expensive. The FUNi singles can also be just as expensive and for much less quality. Buying those releases isn't really an option. And like Gaffer Tape said, you're not supporting FUNi or Toei when buying these because they've been out of print for years.

[sintzu]

There should be jail time for people who pirate things, but then I guess every teenager and 20 something year old would be put behind bars if it happened. Everyone watches stuff online illegally, even if they don't realize what they're doing.

The only logical jail option would be for the ones who actually put the content online as jailing people who just watch then content would be too much trouble than it's worth. Who would you jail ? People who download it or people who watch it ? What about people who watch it on legal sites like Youtube ?

[KBABZ]

If you want to get Z without pirating it but hate how it looks, would getting Z Kai be an acceptable compromise?

[Bruma rabu]

If you want to get Z without pirating it but hate how it looks, would getting Z Kai be an acceptable compromise?

Kai also comes with it's faults, it's aspect ratio changes in the tfc, the redrawn scenes are really distracting, the green tint on tfc, audio mix in tfc english dub is pretty bad, the music placement is not very good either.

[Robo4900]

Kai would be okay, except that TFC is afflicted with many of the same issues as the Funi "Season" releases(To a lesser degree, but less poison in your stew still means there's poison in the stew), and wasn't released over here by Manga UK, so I can't really get it here anyway.

Plus, there's the music issues, so I'll probably just wait for Ocean's dub to air, and stick to that.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

People wanna pirate that's mostly their prerogative but what irks me is people who do and don't support then series in any capacity whether it be buying merch, Manga, video releases etc.

Another thing DBS streams, people still watch it illegally via a stream before the simulcast goes live. Folks like Geekdom who pride themselves on being right it's just hypocritical, I checked his last episode review it was uploaded 2 mins before the simulcast was going to go live therefore he watched it illegally. Why the f*ck would you not wait? Why can't people wait an hour? It's just stupid. In an hour you get actual subs in context and HD makes no sense. If people don't have a simulcast in their country that's fair enough but there are people who clearly do and still watch an illegal shitty unsubbed stream first.

[Puto]

If they watch the simulcast legitimately afterwards anyway, I don't see the problem. Toei are going to get paid the same either way whether you first watch the live TV stream or not.

[sintzu]

If you want to get Z without pirating it but hate how it looks, would getting Z Kai be an acceptable compromise?

Kai for me is currently the best option, especially since I watch anime dubbed.

[precita]

There's a rule in this world, you break the law, you go to jail. Watching anything online illegally is well...illegal. It's copyright infringment if it's on youtube, and if you're watching illegally it's basically like stealing.

If it were up to me there would be "internet police" that track IP's to each persons home who watches any kind of movie, tv show, anime, etc. online illegally, and it goes straight to their house. I would have a whole network of millions of internet cops like in these dystopia future sci-fi movies, and they come to your door. Even if you're a teenager or kid, you still get locked up for a short time.

Just lock them up. Give their parents a small fine and if it happens again their computer is shut down permanently. It's time justice was served.

[clutchins]

People wanna pirate that's mostly their prerogative but what irks me is people who do and don't support then series in any capacity whether it be buying merch, Manga, video releases etc.

Another thing DBS streams, people still watch it illegally via a stream before the simulcast goes live. Folks like Geekdom who pride themselves on being right it's just hypocritical, I checked his last episode review it was uploaded 2 mins before the simulcast was going to go live therefore he watched it illegally. Why the f*ck would you not wait? Why can't people wait an hour? It's just stupid. In an hour you get actual subs in context and HD makes no sense. If people don't have a simulcast in their country that's fair enough but there are people who clearly do and still watch an illegal shitty unsubbed stream first.

You guys might be in different time zones.

There's a rule in this world, you break the law, you go to jail. Watching anything online illegally is well...illegal. It's copyright infringment if it's on youtube, and if you're watching illegally it's basically like stealing.

If it were up to me there would be "internet police" that track IP's to each persons home who watches any kind of movie, tv show, anime, etc. online illegally, and it goes straight to their house. I would have a whole network of millions of internet cops like in these dystopia future sci-fi movies, and they come to your door. Even if you're a teenager or kid, you still get locked up for a short time.

Just lock them up. Give their parents a small fine and if it happens again their computer is shut down permanently. It's time justice was served.

You should work for the NSA. Or Big Brother!

[MrTennek]

There's a rule in this world, you break the law, you go to jail. Watching anything online illegally is well...illegal. It's copyright infringment if it's on youtube, and if you're watching illegally it's basically like stealing.

If it were up to me there would be "internet police" that track IP's to each persons home who watches any kind of movie, tv show, anime, etc. online illegally, and it goes straight to their house. I would have a whole network of millions of internet cops like in these dystopia future sci-fi movies, and they come to your door. Even if you're a teenager or kid, you still get locked up for a short time.

Just lock them up. Give their parents a small fine and if it happens again their computer is shut down permanently. It's time justice was served.

You should get a job with the NSA. You're certainly psychotic enough about monitoring and punishing other people to qualify. Haha, no, but seriously, do you have some sort of mental disorder? Generally people who deal in extreme black and white morality tend to suffer from psychiatric illness of some sort. Take a break from the forum and get some help.

[Ringworm128]

There's a rule in this world, you break the law, you go to jail. Watching anything online illegally is well...illegal. It's copyright infringment if it's on youtube, and if you're watching illegally it's basically like stealing.

If it were up to me there would be "internet police" that track IP's to each persons home who watches any kind of movie, tv show, anime, etc. online illegally, and it goes straight to their house. I would have a whole network of millions of internet cops like in these dystopia future sci-fi movies, and they come to your door. Even if you're a teenager or kid, you still get locked up for a short time.

Just lock them up. Give their parents a small fine and if it happens again their computer is shut down permanently. It's time justice was served.

Homosexuality used to be illegal, raping your wife used to be legal; would you have supported someone who did that because it was legal? Seriously, I'm all for law and order but I agree with the others. Saying a kid should be locked up in prison for watching a clip of his favorite show is downright sociopathic.

[Luso Saiyan]

We all know that pirating movies, music, anime, etc is illegal and just bad. You're essentially stealing someone else's product. And it certainly isn't tolorated here on Kanzenshuu. But what if a product isn't available legally in your country? Does that make it somewhat justifiable to pirated it? And what if it never will be available legally to you?

No, piracy (and theft) doesn't change its definition no matter the circunstances or what motivates you to do it. That's basically appealing to emotion, which doesn't work as an argument since it's a fallacy. If something is not available in your country, then it's not available and the artist(s) or right owners are not getting any revenue from it.