DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

[MR.Mark]

You must lack imagination if you can't picture what I did with Cell in live action AT ALL. It doesn't have to be CGI or real to be a proof of concept.

Go preach your Toriyama stuff elsewhere, you don't even watch Super, you know how foolish you come across?

AGAIN. The point of this topic:


Had theGreatness25 come in, criticized my photo shops, then provided his own ideas that he thought was better, that would of been perfectly fine.

What he posted WAS NOT WHAT THIS TOPIC WAS ABOUT. IF YOU DON'T THINK LIVE ACTION CAN WORK AT ALL THEN DON'T POST.

Now please, stop derailing my thread and just go be annoying elsewhere, ugh.

[ABED]

It's not proof of anything. It's not even a 3-D image. You can't see it move or how it interacts with a real object or person.

Go preach your Toriyama stuff elsewhere, you don't even watch Super, you know how foolish you come across?

Is that supposed to be a knock? Toriyama created DB and his personality gave the show its spirit. It is what it is because of him and his talent for fun, quirky, and memorable characters and exciting action. TOEI has a very difficult time writing stories without him. The idea of some US team getting what works about the show and executing it well is VERY slim. Not to sound trite, but you'd have a better chance of getting winning the lottery than a good live action DB movie happening. It COULD happen, but chances of it actually happening are very slim.

I watched every DB movie and 500+ episodes, yet because I haven't watched Super, I sound foolish?

[MR.Mark]

Yes, it very much was a knock, your being a foolish child picking fights for no reason. theGreatness25 can fight his own battles if he needs to, and he's respecting my wishes unlike you.

You don't think live action will work, good, great, many don't agree, now move on with your life and stop posting your flimsy arguments in here.

[ABED]

This is not a fight. I didn't pick a fight. I gave my earnest opinion on the subject. It seems all you want to hear is other people agree with you. I don't think these pics are proof of concept. I don't want to see DB in live action. In fact, I haven't been particularly enthusiastic about DB continuing even in animation. Some of these are nice looking, but they don't prove what works.

You don't want people saying that they honestly think nothing about this works in live action, fine. Have a nice day.

[MR.Mark]

Nope, you just came in here to just say it won't work, basically wasting your time, and everyone elses. I have nothing against people disagreeing as long as they can back up what they think does and contributes to the topic.

In fact, I haven't been particularly enthusiastic about DB continuing even in animation.

Sucks to be you, see ya.

Back on topic, I may attempt a Vegeta next, be far more challenging because he's much more humanoid.

[TheGreatness25]

You should change the title of the thread to "DB in live action: what does work (pics)" because that seems to be what you're concerned about. I gave a list of what doesn't work: the hair, the outfits, the CG of characters. To me, that wouldn't work. To me, the things that don't work outweigh the things that do. And yet, you're trying to play it off like I didn't contribute anything more than "oh nothing works." Well, I didn't say "nothing works" and left it at that, I said hair and CG don't work.

In another thread, I also pointed out that I don't see how you can stuff any part of Dragon Ball into a 2-hour movie. It'll piss someone off if you change the story and if you don't change it significantly, you'd have to pretty much condense the hell out of it. Thus, live action to me doesn't work.

You're shooting down my legitimate contributions to this topic as "bringing nothing" just because I disagree with you. So if you want this to be a thread about an orgy of "live action concepts," please indicate as such.

So if this is just another example of "Play by my rules or you have no opinion here," then you can keep it.

[MR.Mark]

Sigh, whatever dude, you know what this topic was about. it's not for people that don't think it will work at all, simple as that. I wouldn't of said anything otherwise if you provided stuff you thought worked, but, again, you think nothing will, so this is not the topic for you. That's all, it's not complicated.

So if this is just another example of "Play by my rules or you have no opinion here," then you can keep it.

Seems like your own rules is nothing will work, so how is that any different then what you accuse me of? it's all opinion in the end, and IMO, you did not properly contribute to the topic.

If anyone is of the opinion that none of it works, that's fine, but that's not what this topic is about, so you're free to go elsewhere.

Sheesh, who woulda figured me briefly trying to tell people to keep things on topic would do the exact opposite.

[TheGreatness25]

I'll tell you what works: a good cinematographer, a good director, a good screenplay, and good actors. You can have a great early DB movie without Goku, Oolong, Pu'erh, Shu, or Pilaf looking very accurate. You can have a nice martial arts competition movie. Or a Dragon Ball hunting movie. Or hell, even a King Piccolo movie eventually. You can totally do the Saiyan story. The fighting effects and fights can look incredible (which I said before, but you must not have been paying attention), but when it comes to putting a giant CG splat on screen to represent a villain, it'll throw it all off.

CG in movies is the most groan-worthy thing. It instantly catches my attention. This can be remedied if the whole movie was in CG, but very realistic CG -- kind of like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. That's how I think movies like this should be done. If you're going to go 50%+ in CG, just do the whole thing in CG so it's not so jarring when you look at it.

But then if I'd want it all in CG, it kind of defeats the "live action" part of it.

[MR.Mark]

Fair enough, so you do think some things could work, I understand now. (though saying effects would look good but the characters hokey kinda defeats the whole purpose.)

My design of Cell could be a guy in a suit with prosthetics, I can picture that easily. His other forms could be well done cgi though.

Really, IMO, the only thing that would have to be compromised design wise that comes to mind is Goku's hair, which is kinda hilarious, shows how logic defying Toriyama's design for it was.

[ABED]

CG in movies is the most groan-worthy thing. It instantly catches my attention.

But it's all fake. Don't prosthetics also catch your attention?

[TheGreatness25]

CG in movies is the most groan-worthy thing. It instantly catches my attention.

But it's all fake. Don't prosthetics also catch your attention?

If they're bad, sure. I just want a consistency of the look, so I think prosthetics can be a lot better than CG. James Franco wears prosthetics in The Disaster Artist, but it isn't crazy looking like the young version of the dad from Tron did, for example.

I want a consistency in the look, which is why I feel that for a super CG heavy movie, it should be done all in CG. The recent Planet of the Apes series did incredible work with CG, but there were still some flimsy things in there (to be expected), but they were doing CG takes on real animals. Doing it with a totally bizarre being with no reference would not look good in my opinion. With my Thanos example, don't misunderstand what I'm saying -- he looks good, but stick him in a scene with a real live person and he sticks out like a sore stumb, screaming "CG."

[MR.Mark]

Honestly if Goku's hair looked more along the lines of this, I'd be satisfied.



Cuz, the alternative.

If they're bad, sure. I just want a consistency of the look, so I think prosthetics can be a lot better than CG. James Franco wears prosthetics in The Disaster Artist, but it isn't crazy looking like the young version of the dad from Tron did, for example.

I want a consistency in the look, which is why I feel that for a super CG heavy movie, it should be done all in CG. The recent Planet of the Apes series did incredible work with CG, but there were still some flimsy things in there (to be expected), but they were doing CG takes on real animals. Doing it with a totally bizarre being with no reference would not look good in my opinion. With my Thanos example, don't misunderstand what I'm saying -- he looks good, but stick him in a scene with a real live person and he sticks out like a sore stumb, screaming "CG."

Even with suit effects do you still think my Perfect Cell concept would look silly in live action? In a world of live action justice league costumes and Spiderman I don't think it would be out of place at all.

[ABED]

If they're bad, sure. I just want a consistency of the look, so I think prosthetics can be a lot better than CG. James Franco wears prosthetics in The Disaster Artist, but it isn't crazy looking like the young version of the dad from Tron did, for example.

I want a consistency in the look, which is why I feel that for a super CG heavy movie, it should be done all in CG. The recent Planet of the Apes series did incredible work with CG, but there were still some flimsy things in there (to be expected), but they were doing CG takes on real animals. Doing it with a totally bizarre being with no reference would not look good in my opinion. With my Thanos example, don't misunderstand what I'm saying -- he looks good, but stick him in a scene with a real live person and he sticks out like a sore stumb, screaming "CG."

You are talking about a subtle change, so of course it's not that bad. Prosthetics are opaque, but skin is translucent. You can tell where they end and the real person begins.

Alright, take Gotham in Batman 89. It's all done practically, but it's clear they are limited by their budget. The city looks incredibly small and like sets. City Hall, the theater where the Waynes were killed, and the cathedral where the final act takes place are all on the same street. Gotham in Batman Returns looks even smaller despite supposedly being a big city. In Guardians of the Galaxy, Gamora has green skin, but it's just a woman with an obvious paint job. All of it screams fake because we know what's real. You go into these fantasy films knowing all of this. As long as the story works on the page, the look isn't as big of an issue for me. The times when it's a huge issue are in instances where it seems like practical would seem perfectly feasible or in instances like the recent Uncanny Valley Superman, shudder.

[MR.Mark]

I'd love to see actual sets of Toriyama's world in a good live action DB, of course some stuff would have to be green-screened now and then.

[TheGreatness25]

Honestly if Goku's hair looked more along the lines of this, I'd be satisfied.



Cuz, the alternative.

If they're bad, sure. I just want a consistency of the look, so I think prosthetics can be a lot better than CG. James Franco wears prosthetics in The Disaster Artist, but it isn't crazy looking like the young version of the dad from Tron did, for example.

I want a consistency in the look, which is why I feel that for a super CG heavy movie, it should be done all in CG. The recent Planet of the Apes series did incredible work with CG, but there were still some flimsy things in there (to be expected), but they were doing CG takes on real animals. Doing it with a totally bizarre being with no reference would not look good in my opinion. With my Thanos example, don't misunderstand what I'm saying -- he looks good, but stick him in a scene with a real live person and he sticks out like a sore stumb, screaming "CG."

Even with suit effects do you still think my Perfect Cell concept would look silly in live action? In a world of live action justice league costumes and Spiderman I don't think it would be out of place at all.

I think both of those are horrendous. I'd rather a regular side-spike hairdo for Goku and a full up spike for someone like Vegeta. The problem is that it shouldn't be gelled. Here's my wolverine example earlier:

[spoiler]Here's from The Wolverine:



I don't like that it looks like he gelled his hair. Never mind the three X-Men movie where his hair looked horrible, it actually looks good here. But Wolverine gelling his hair? I like how they did it for Origins:

[/spoiler]

So honestly, as weird as it is to imagine, I'd rather these for Goku and Vegeta:

[spoiler]For Goku:





For Vegeta:

[/spoiler]

Now, those are just random Google Image searches. For a live action movie, if at all possible, I'd rather do the hair with regular water and blow dryer rather than wigs or a ton of gel/hairspray/moose, etc. because it really shines through and looks silly. Like "Wait, you really intended it to look like that? You gelled it to look that way? Ew." Never mind the fact that the Saiyans wouldn't gel their hair in the first place.

[MR.Mark]

You need to have it more spikier than Logan, but that's me, that's to downplayed.

Depends on your suspension of disbelief, Saiyans always had gravity deifying hair, you could easily make there hair be a little stiffer because they're not human.

Told ya Goku was hard to crack.

That Vegeta I posted at the top doesin't look gelled and I think it's fairly cool looking.




What about my Cell?

Again, I'd recommend Valerian and the city of a thousand planets, at least for the visuals. You can do DB characters without being hokey, just gotta balance what works and what doesin't when adapting, hey like the point of this topic.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Anime and live action just aren't a good combo.

[MR.Mark]

Anime and live action just aren't a good combo.

Visually? Storywise? both?

It's been done well visually before:

So,logically, DB can be done, it's story is adaptable.

But again, this topic is for people that think it can be done.

[Kuwabara]

Anime and live action just aren't a good combo.

I disagree. I think live action directors could produce interesting results if they only took the time to understand the visual appeal of anime in the first place. Most adaptations so far just don't get it. One notable exception would be Speed Racer; the Wachowskis captured the feeling of an anime brought to life perfectly.

I'd also agree that, even though the movie as a whole is lousy, live action Ghost in the Shell does the shot for shot recreations from the original movie pretty well (to its detriment I think, these scenes are basically rendered pointless).

All of these pictures up thread seem too grounded in reality. For live action Dragon Ball to succeed, the silliness needs to be embraced, and I think an approach similar to Speed Racer could work. The designs should stay relatively true to the original work, just with slightly more muted colors. That design of Perfect Cell for example is way too busy and reminds me of Michael Bay's Decepticons.

In all of the fan recreations I've ever seen, none of them 'get' the ebb and flow of Dragon Ball's action. They focus on green screening and adding hokey beam effects instead of choreography or even just showing a hit on-screen in a satisfying way. One thing I've always loved in the anime is this camera technique where, whenever a big punch or kick is made, there's a split second zoom into the center of the attack's impact to really emphasize just how hard somebody just got fucked up! I love that, and yet I've never seen any live action fan creations even attempt this. Did they watch the same show I did? It's such a simple yet satisfying effect.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done in wuxia films or something similar, but I've personally never seen it. It's subtle things like this that would need an observant artist and director that really understands Dragon Ball's visual language.

And this is more of a preference, but it should be shot on film, with noticeably grainy film stock.

[MR.Mark]

Speed Racer is another good example, but it's also a film that's even worse than ghost in the shell. I'd rather have balance with a live action DB. Yes, DB is silly, I myself have defended that point many times. However, it's also about context. I feel those pics I posted of Perfect Cell and Freeza work because they were the type of villains Toriyama intended you to take seriously and fear. You embrace sillyness with characters like Fat Buu in design, not them.

Then you have characters that can both look serious and goofy when they need to like Super Buu or Beerus.

Just because DB as whole is silly, doesn't mean every moment in the story is. A good live action DB should balance comedy and serious moments like Men in Black, Ghostbusters, or Hell Boy.

It's kinda funny the Power Rangers movie was used as an argument against some villains working, Ivan Ooze actually looks right at home in the DB world. Hell, movie Lord Zed I thought looked pretty bad ass, he looks like something Goku and co would fight at the TOP.

Comes down to your own suspension of disbelief, but if you can for another example except this:

Then DB characters can work, modern cinema is ready for live action DB.



I agree the original Cell posted in this thread had to many segmented parts and the lighting didn't do it any favors as he had a plastic look. I think what I can up with is a good compromise and very faithful to Toriyama. You can't do a 100% translation to some of his designs because it would just look like cosplay in the live action medium. Again it's about context, from Toriyama's design standpoint, Cell is ment to look "cool" and he does, on paper. It's about translating the cool factor in his perfect form into live action while still being faithful. Again what does and does not work.