DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by ABED » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:00 pm

MR.Mark wrote:Splitting hairs again, look at the topic of the thread.

Finding the talent out there to do live action isn't the hard part. I never said the execution would be easy. It would require a lot of careful planning.

DB is a pretty liner story of power growth, if you stick to that most changes would come down to fanboy nostalgia nitpicking anyway.

If a Super manga and Anime can coexist with the same story but not getting from point a to point b 100% the same. The same can be done from Original manga to film adaption.

Since you agree it's possible anyway, this is pretty redundant. I wish the topic can get back to character designs/possible story changes/ effects and other fun stuff can be debated.

Rather than this pointless negativity that's not even on topic.
Finding the talent IS the hard part. It's the single hardest part.

Not on topic? All you want is for people to agree with you that it can be done.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:09 pm

ABED wrote: Finding the talent IS the hard part. It's the single hardest part.
Splitting hairs againnnn, stop creating more and more pointless debates, Christ. It's pretty much ALL hard to an extent, filmaking is a challenging collaborative process.

You don't just get all the talent and wave a wand and it's done, that's ridiculous.
ABED wrote:
What points about GT are you referring to?
That you seem to enjoy elements from GT even though it's not written by Toriyama and you've defended it against Super, which Toriyama is way more involved, and you havint even watched it. In fact, I don't even know why someone not even excited about new material from Toriyama is wasting there time in this topic to begin with. It's like you got nothing better to do but start a pointless debate about something your not even passionate about. :crazy:

ABED wrote: Not on topic? All you want is for people to agree with you that it can be done.
Wrong, it's for people that think it can be done, but the debates are supposed to be about how and what does and does not work. It's not for people to come in and take a negativity dump and saying it won't work period, that adds nothing, why can't you grasp that?

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by ABED » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:13 pm

Wrong, it's for people that think it can be done, but the debates are supposed to be about how and what does and does not work. It's not for people to come in and take a negativity dump and saying it won't work, that adds nothing, why can't you grasp that?
It's not a negativity dump. There is a constructive dialog to be had here if you will allow it. Saying that it can't be done isn't a bad thing. It's as honest response as any. It does add something if it's in the form of honest constructive criticism which those of us who don't think it can be have made.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:21 pm

ABED wrote: Saying that it can't be done isn't a bad thing. It's as honest response as any.
But it's not the point of the fucking topic. If you want to debate elements of effects and story sure, but when you clutter up my thread by turning it into a debate about whether a film is even possible? No, you are missing the point.

I didn't start this to talk about whether audiences would want to see it and other bullshit you're bringing into it. This is for people gung ho believeing it can be done, and debating what does work and what does not when adapting, you finally get it?
ABED wrote: We are talking about a story written by a man who draws poop on a stick for laughs.
Must be that Toriyama magic that you think is so hard to replicate.

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by ABED » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:28 pm

Must be that Toriyama magic that you think is so hard to replicate.
There is a certain charm to it. C'mon, son! It's smiling poop on a stick :)

I didn't miss the point. See how annoying it is when someone doesn't listen?

Anyway, I've said what I wanted. Peace out!
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:30 pm

ABED wrote:
Must be that Toriyama magic that you think is so hard to replicate.
There is a certain charm to it. C'mon, son! It's smiling poop on a stick :)
a lot of that charm is in Super too, and can be done in a film. :D
ABED wrote: See how annoying it is when someone doesn't listen?

Sure is

ABED wrote:
Anyway, I've said what I wanted. Peace out!
And I've defended my stance and then some, see ya! :wave:

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by Professor Freeza » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:42 am

Mr Mark is trying to hear nothing but what he feels like hearing.

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:47 am

Professor Freeza wrote:Mr Mark is trying to hear nothing but what he feels like hearing.
You were another guy that just came in here to say everything is crap and it wouldn't work right? What a surprise that you would jump in again.

There's the door. :wave:

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:23 am

I think one of the biggest issues Dragon Ball (and a lot of anime) has when it comes to adapting it to live action is the art style. Ghost in the Shell managed to work in visuals because the original designs (at least no the manga) weren't cartoony and looked more realistic and thus easier to adapt in live action. Naruto's character designs can also be adapted for the same reason.

On the other hand, Dragon Ball and One Piece for example have a unique and a very cartoony designs (more so with One Piece) it makes it very challenging to adapt to live action. All the crazy hair and the huge eyes and whatever unorthodox design Oda comes up with will always comes off in live action because they don't look realistic to begin with. It's like how Mario stands out in New Donk City from Super Mario Odyssey and doesn't fit with the people living there.

Speaking of hair and live action, Ace Attorney movie tried replicating the game designs and some of them worked and others didn't. For Phoenix/Naruhodo's case, this is how they did his hair. They didn't need to emphasis the spikes the way his character model is, but still looks close enough to know it's the same character.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:07 pm

Exactly, it's about realistic expectations when going from drawn page to live action medium. I love Batman the animated series, but I'd never expect a live action Batman to have sharp edged eyes or a literal square head, that's a given.

How about chracter's like Bulma? You'd probably have to tone down some of the colors of her outfits at most. In a world with movies that Marvel puts out, things like her hair color shouldn't be a deal breaker at all.

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:54 pm

I feel like Freeza, Cell and Buu would done with motion capture. I think anyone could play as them since they would probably be CG. I remember rumors that North Kaio would be CG back in 2002-2003 for the DBZ live action rumors and Sean Schemmel would voice him in the movie.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:27 pm

I'm not a big fan of Sean's Kaio voice so I wouldn't want that. I'm a practical effects fan so I would want it used whenever possible, I could live with mo-cap if I had to though. However, quality of the films aside, if audiences can except a puppet Yoda in TLJ, as well as make up and costumes for certain aliens, I see no reason DB can't do it too.

Honestly though, are people's suspension of disbelief so fickle these days they couldn't except a more polished make up/costume version of something like this?

Image

There are more important things to waste money on with CGI, like Buu and his crazy shape shifting. Kaio-sama is a humanoid that spends most of his time standing around giving out advise or jokes.

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by ChaosWolf1982 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:26 pm

While the shootyblasty lasers and explosions side of DB could easily be replicated with CGI, and the villains such as Cell and Buu and Frieza could be accomplished reasonably well with mo-cap the same way Gollum and the PoTA apes were, it's the more human characters that might be trickier, because there were various "shortcuts" and stylistic choices made for them that could be problematic simply because doing them live would potentially be a uncanny-valley human-but-not-quite situation.

First thing that comes to mind? Goku's hair. Not just the spikiness of it, but the shape of it, how it looks from different angles - all three of them.
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That infamous silhouette exists only in those three forms - front, profile, and behind. His face moves but his hair does not. They're like how no matter which way Mickey Mouse's head is turned, his ears are always drawn like this -> O_O even though that's physically impossible.

Unless they also CGI his hair, how could live action replicate that without looking ridiculous? Vegeta is the same situation, if not worse, because he doesn't even have a second and third position - just a singular shape, a big black christmas-tree-shaped thing on his head, devoid of details to indicate anything three-dimensional. Some of the toys' attempts to figure that out have been comically absurd - I had an action-figure of Veggie as a kid that rendered his hair in such a way that while a facing-forward view was perfect, any angle other than straight-on looked downright bizarre - it was a smooth wedge-shaped shark-fin of black plastic with the back-side of it a lump of spikes resembling hiking-boot cleats.

And then there's the more "unique" things like Krillin's nasal absence, Tien's third eye, etc., that if done live action would likely also trigger the sensations of uncanny-valley due to them being humans with either something expected being absent, or something unexpected being present. Why do I say this? Well, heck, there's actually been studies where photos of very well known people like media celebrities, sports figures, and political personalities were slightly edited to have minor-sounding changes like having teeth reshaped or eyebrows removed, basically minimally altering parts most people wouldn't normally pay attention to consciously, and people reported the images made them strangely ill at ease until the changes were pointed out. When the changes were deliberately exaggerated to be obvious, nobody reported the unsettling sensation, only when the figures were "not quite right".
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:42 am

Krillin comes down to artstyle.

Yes, they broke the fourth wall afew times early in the manga about him not having a nose, but gags aside, he is a human being. I would fully expect him to have a nose in live action.

Goku's hair really is one of the trickiest things. Though if budget would alow it to look good I suppose an actor wearing some kind of tracker wig so the hair could be followed and added later in CGI would be possible.

I would think an actor for Tenshinhan would have a tracker on his forehead for a CGI eye as well.

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by ChaosWolf1982 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:15 am

MR.Mark wrote:Krillin comes down to artstyle.

Yes, they broke the fourth wall afew times early in the manga about him not having a nose, but gags aside, he is a human being. I would fully expect him to have a nose in live action.
Come now, do you really think this fandom would accept a character entirely absent (or rather, not absent) of his most well known and recognizable physical feature?

That's like wanting folks to accept a bald Goku.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:29 am

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There I found Krillin. LOL.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:05 am

MR.Mark wrote:Exactly, it's about realistic expectations when going from drawn page to live action medium. I love Batman the animated series, but I'd never expect a live action Batman to have sharp edged eyes or a literal square head, that's a given.

How about chracter's like Bulma? You'd probably have to tone down some of the colors of her outfits at most. In a world with movies that Marvel puts out, things like her hair color shouldn't be a deal breaker at all.

Image
Here's an attempt at a colorful anime hair.
Image
ChaosWolf1982 wrote:First thing that comes to mind? Goku's hair. Not just the spikiness of it, but the shape of it, how it looks from different angles - all three of them.
Image
I think the Budokai games got the hair right by adding the spikes to show on both front and profile.
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Last edited by SHINOBI-03 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:07 am

ChaosWolf1982 wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:Krillin comes down to artstyle.

Yes, they broke the fourth wall afew times early in the manga about him not having a nose, but gags aside, he is a human being. I would fully expect him to have a nose in live action.
Come now, do you really think this fandom would accept a character entirely absent (or rather, not absent) of his most well known and recognizable physical feature?

That's like wanting folks to accept a bald Goku.
Are you actually being serious?

I picture Krillin being played by a short Asian monk dude, I would think his nose should be intact, lol.

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:14 am

Shinobi I know its massively hypocritical of me because I just did it myself but dont quote posts with so many huge images. They clutter the thread and make it hard to load for people with slow internet.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: DB in live action: what does and does not work (pics)

Post by MR.Mark » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:16 am

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