Would it still be Dragon Ball with out Goku, his family, and friends?

[ABED]

But do they have to?

I think they do.

For those that want to see something set in the universe, but not about Goku, could you be more specific about what kind of things you want to see?

[KBABZ]

For those that want to see something set in the universe, but not about Goku, could you be more specific about what kind of things you want to see?

Things exploring other characters and what they could get up to. I feel like the Dragon World is large enough that we don't have to expect a story that is constrained Goku, Vegeta and their Saiyan adventures.

I think the Dragon World has multiple layers it can explore based on bits introduced during the main story so far. The more ground-level one is stuff happening on Earth, which we got glimpses of with places like West City, Jingle Village, Upa and Bora, and Penguin Village if you wanna take the crossover implications that seriously. One layer up would be outer space, which we saw bits and pieces of during the Namek arc and what GT explored, as well as the implications of the Saiyan planet trade mentioned in the Saiyan arc. This is the level I see Jaco on; what if we had a side-story series of Jaco exploring the galaxy with Tights trying to deal with galactic trouble? Is there a power vacuum now that Frieza's dead and his organization is in shambles?

Up from there you could argue is Other World, thanks to the huge amounts of lore introduced by the dead warriors and the goings on there and in the realm of the Kais with the Other World Tournament. And the furthest up we can go are entirely new universes with characters who are 100% detached from the established history like Caulifla and Kale. A story of them in their home Universe fighting the good fight would be cool to see, right?

I guess what I see is a very vast world with many different settings and an enormous list of characters, who I feel could carry a story on their own if one were written for them. And while I do understand why the story has focused on Goku almost the entire time (he IS the main character and has driven the franchise forward for 30+ years after all), I don't understand the aversion to having the Dragon World told through somebody else's with Goku not being present at all, because for me the world is much more than just Goku. Obviously I'm not insane enough to suggest that it should be the primary format of the franchise, but it would be a cool way to mix things up with, say, a major story running alongside the normal one.

[dario03]

While the main story of Star Wars concerns the Skywalkers, its premise of a galaxy at war lends itself to other stories. Dragon Ball isn't a premise. It's based around a character.

Which is why it would be harder to do it with DB but It all depends on what you do with the story. Goku is a major part of his universe and for the most part the center of it but he isn't the universe. Just suddenly getting rid of Goku might be a bit jarring but you could continue the story. Or do it slower by putting more focus on other characters, have more side stories, develop the world and characters, and over time he wouldn't be as integral but you could still maintain the DB feel through its humor and action.

I think in this case, he is the universe.

I enjoy a good side story every now and then, but only every now and then. As others have pointed out, they do revolve around Goku in some way.

I disagree. He isn't the Universe, DB isn't one of those stories that is shown entirely from the first or third person of a single character. You don't lose the DB feel every time he goes off page/screen.

[majinwarman]

While the main story of Star Wars concerns the Skywalkers, its premise of a galaxy at war lends itself to other stories. Dragon Ball isn't a premise. It's based around a character.

Which is why it would be harder to do it with DB but It all depends on what you do with the story. Goku is a major part of his universe and for the most part the center of it but he isn't the universe. Just suddenly getting rid of Goku might be a bit jarring but you could continue the story. Or do it slower by putting more focus on other characters, have more side stories, develop the world and characters, and over time he wouldn't be as integral but you could still maintain the DB feel through its humor and action.

I think in this case, he is the universe.

I enjoy a good side story every now and then, but only every now and then. As others have pointed out, they do revolve around Goku in some way.

there's a lot of potential

There's always "potential".

I understand taking a break from Goku but there's no reason to get rid of Goku. Dragon Ball is Goku. But, if they made stories about other universes then I can buy. But, Dragon Ball still is Goku's story so we need Goku in some form.

[sintzu]

I don't think protagonists should be switched after a certain length of time. It doesn't work nearly as well as anyone thinks it will.

It only works when a story starts out with that in mind as in the protagonist being changed in each show like Yu-Gi-Oh or after certain number of arcs.

[dario03]

Which is why it would be harder to do it with DB but It all depends on what you do with the story. Goku is a major part of his universe and for the most part the center of it but he isn't the universe. Just suddenly getting rid of Goku might be a bit jarring but you could continue the story. Or do it slower by putting more focus on other characters, have more side stories, develop the world and characters, and over time he wouldn't be as integral but you could still maintain the DB feel through its humor and action.

I think in this case, he is the universe.

I enjoy a good side story every now and then, but only every now and then. As others have pointed out, they do revolve around Goku in some way.

there's a lot of potential

There's always "potential".

I understand taking a break from Goku but there's no reason to get rid of Goku. Dragon Ball is Goku. But, if they made stories about other universes then I can buy. But, Dragon Ball still is Goku's story so we need Goku in some form.

Theres no need to get rid of him, wouldn't really gain anything from it. But you could continue the story without him. DB is a simple story with a lot of focus on Goku but it isn't so simple that it couldn't continue on without him.

[ABED]

The issue isn't one of complexity. It's primarily one of emotional connection. Goku's been in the driver's seat for so long that changing it is counterproductive at this point, and I agree with those saying that stories have successfully changed leads, but the best examples are stories where the protagonists changed early into the story.

DB isn't one of those stories that is shown entirely from the first or third person of a single character. You don't lose the DB feel every time he goes off page/screen.

That's not what I or anyone else is arguing. Almost no story, especially long running story, has the main character in every single scene, but Goku is clearly the main character. This isn't a novel told in first person.

KBABZ, fair enough about Jaco, though he seems so detached from anything DB related, but why does anyone care about Freeza's planet trade anymore? The head of the organization is dead and it's a non-issue. I don't find lore that interesting outside of the stories they come from.

I didn't think I had to write this, but apparently it has to be stated - no one is arguing the main character (Goku, in this case) has to be in every scene!

[KBABZ]

I didn't think I had to write this, but apparently it has to be stated - no one is arguing the main character (Goku, in this case) has to be in every scene!

Since we're stating stuff, we aren't saying Goku and any stories that could be about him should be thrown away either!

[ABED]

I didn't think I had to write this, but apparently it has to be stated - no one is arguing the main character (Goku, in this case) has to be in every scene!

Since we're stating stuff, we aren't saying Goku and any stories that could be about him should be thrown away either!

Who wrote or even implied that?

[dario03]

I didn't think I had to write this, but apparently it has to be stated - no one is arguing the main character (Goku, in this case) has to be in every scene!

Who wrote or even implied that?

[ABED]

"that alone wasn't enough for me to like him so much to the point of me requiring his presence all the time and everywhere, when there were always other characters and other stuff going on. Probably Goku is not enough for me, I need the whole franchise, because I know it can offer more, I know there's more beyond Goku and what he can offer."
"You don't lose the DB feel every time he goes off page/screen." And numerous other examples in this forum.

[dario03]

"You don't lose the DB feel every time he goes off page/screen." And numerous other examples in this thread alone.

That statement is to support my claim that he isn't the universe. It doesn't imply that you think he should be on every page/screen.

[ABED]

"You don't lose the DB feel every time he goes off page/screen." And numerous other examples in this thread alone.

That statement is to support my claim that he isn't the universe. It doesn't imply that you think he should be on every page/screen.

The fact that he doesn't have to be on every page doesn't mean he isn't the universe of the story. The story is about him and unfolds around and because of him.

And the first statement I made wasn't to anyone in particular. I keep running into comments like that.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

After sitting and pondering through about this question for the past week...

... I'm going to have to say NO (no no no no no).

Son Goku is practically its own institution by now. When a character is as loved and adored as much today as he has been through all stages of his life, that's not a character/story that can simply be discarded and something else started over from. Over thirty years strong now, and will be highly recognizable and memorable as long as our time permits. If we're including staple characters into the mix (the history he has with Kuririn and Kamesennin by themselves can drive a story,imo), as well as characters introduced even in recent years (Beerus, Whis, Hit)... that's all just cream cheese icing on the carrot cake.

Other characters -- such as Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan -- can hold the story together for so long, but there's always something extra special happening whenever Goku returns from his long absences. This question could've been asked twenty five years ago, and it would result with the same answer. Goku is too unique of a character.

[majinwarman]

After sitting and pondering through about this question for the past week...

... I'm going to have to say NO (no no no no no).

Son Goku is practically its own institution by now. When a character is as loved and adored as much today as he has been through all stages of his life, that's not a character/story that can simply be discarded and something else started over from. Over thirty years strong now, and will be highly recognizable and memorable as long as our time permits. If we're including staple characters into the mix (the history he has with Kuririn and Kamesennin by themselves can drive a story,imo), as well as characters introduced even in recent years (Beerus, Whis, Hit)... that's all just cream cheese icing on the carrot cake.

Other characters -- such as Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan -- can hold the story together for so long, but there's always something extra special happening whenever Goku returns from his long absences. This question could've been asked twenty five years ago, and it would result with the same answer. Goku is too unique of a character.

Those words were such a great way to explain Goku and what he means to this fandom.

[Basaku]

I genuinely don't agree with you. Goku is in fact irreplaceable as the lead.

No one is irreplaceable, especially a character that's just a shadow of its former self.

I wish people would stop using the term Flanderization. It's not only silly, it's not even apt as Flanders had layers to him. And while I haven't seen much of Super, I have seen the last two movies and if it's any indication, Goku hasn't been relegated to a caricature. It still makes no sense to me why you would prefer a radical, nonsensical shift like taking Goku out of the lead spot. Why do that instead of making him more interesting and less of a "caricature"?

It's not nonsensical when half of Z was about prepping new generation of protectors and passing the torch. And no, I didn't 'imagine this' nor wrote it myself, Toriyama did, he's responsible for making me wanna see the series and its universe progress further. Evolution, passing time and growth have been the pillars of DB since day 1. It's nonsensical to want this franchise to get stuck in the same spot with the same lead that the author (along with Toei) lost interest in developing 20 years ago already. This isn't even fully recent Super developement.

Also, start watching Super, otherwise you're really out of your element discussing where the series should go next because you have little clue what's happening in it nowadays.

[ABED]

Of course he's irreplaceable. He is Dragon Ball. 24 isn't 24 without Jack Bauer. Without him, you have a gimmick. Cheers isn't Cheers without Sam Malone. Without him, it's just a show about a bar. Main characters, after a certain point, become irreplaceable.

It's not nonsensical when half of Z was about prepping new generation of protectors and passing the torch.

And it's the worst half. The next generation works great in the real world, but not well in stories. It's a romantic notion that just never seems to be as good in practice because the next generation doesn't have the emotional equity with the audience that the original main character does. Toriyama tried it and it didn't work.

Evolution, passing time and growth have been the pillars of DB since day 1. It's nonsensical to want this franchise to get stuck in the same spot with the same lead that the author (along with Toei) lost interest in developing 20 years ago already. This isn't even fully recent Super developement.

And staying with the same character doesn't prevent the story from being about evolution, passing of time, and growth. In this case, it's about Goku's growth because that's what DB is about - Goku. It's HIS story.
No one is saying the story has to remain static, and staying with the same character doesn't preclude that. And why is this all about Goku? How come you aren't in favor of him changing? Instead you are adamant that he should be moved out of the way, which makes no sense.

[Gligarman]

After reading Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman, I'd say yes.

[ABED]

After reading Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman, I'd say yes.

While Jaco may be set in the world of DB, he doesn't feel like DB. It felt as much like DB as Dr. Slump did.

[Gligarman]

You should check out the Jaco manga. It feels very much like the earlier part of the Dragon Ball manga since it's just about a group of silly selfish people who just happen to suddenly live together. I was hoping they'd adapt it into Super.