Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

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Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Ajay » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:19 am

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Welcome! For details on this rewatch, click here!

Heading into the big ol' final battle next week!

Here are some legal ways to stream the series:
Funimation (North America)
AnimeLab (Australia and New Zealand)

This week we're covering:




Suggested Format & Weekly Questions


Language: For the sake of context, let us know which language you're watching the series in (and what score, if required).
General Thoughts: Your thoughts on the episode, possibly linked to the suggested questions if need be. Cover the plot, the tone, the character interactions, and characterisation.
Entertainment Factor: How was the pacing? Did the episode keep you entertained throughout, or what could have been done better?
Animation: Did you like the action sequences, or the way characters emoted? Did things move in a satisfying way, or was it mostly style over substance?
Questions: Not necessary, but if you're curious about opinions on a specific point that hasn't been touched on, go ahead and ask! It's a nice way to spur the topic onward.

- This batch marks the end of Nappa. Despite being such a short-lived character, he's arguably one of the most memorable and significant, making his way into several video games, for example. What is it about him that's ensured such success?

- Prior to the final battle of this arc beginning, Vegeta speaks very little. What sort of effect/impact do you think this has as far as setting up his character goes?
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Kamiccolo9 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:41 am

The appeal of Nappa, to me at least, is the free-for-all style of his fight. There's none of the stupid "I'm gonna fight you one-on-one" bullshit that plagues the series later on; everybody does their best to gang up on the guy. Not that it works, but it makes it one of my favorite fights in the series, tied with the similar struggle against Recoome. Unlike Recoome, however, Nappa has the distinction of wiping out, like, half the main cast up to that point.

Plus, he appears along with Vegeta, which gives him a connection with one of the more popular characters.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby gaberparadiso » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:44 pm

Episode 26

General thoughts: stating beforehand this is a stalling episode, which anticipates the real fight, it's not that bad. Even though the Chichi drama is terribly annoying, the rest is really enjoyable. I really like that it's not a static episode, as we get actual action from Nappa, destroying TV troops, the navy and random cities. Gohan insulting Nappa was quite funny, and Vegeta laughing behind him was even funnier. My favorite part is the ending, with Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan preparing to fight Nappa, who took off his armor for some reason, and Goku finally back on Earth. Quite good climax. Nothing else to add, since I don't have many problems with this episode.

Entertainment factor: better than I expected, with enjoyable action and a neat ending.

Animation: clearly, whenever we look at Takenouchi's storyboarding, the first thing we can notice is its atmosphere. From this perspective, it's kinda similar to Ryota Nakamura in DBS. Animation-wise, they took footages from previous episodes during the sequence with Nappa destroying a random city. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 2601637888 Considering this is an episode without much claim, it's fine. The action scenes, always involving the bald Saiyan, are well animated: Shida animates the bit with the TV troops chase, whereas Ohara handles the navy bombing Nappa.

Music: good placement as a whole. A lot of M7** and M8** being played on relatively fitting times.

Overall thoughts: 7/10, fair enough.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby sintzu » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:59 am

Goku vs Vegeta, the fight that defined DB for the rest of its existence. The impact of it is still heavily felt to this very day. No other character (apart from Goku of course) has had the staying power and importance that Vegeta has had as he's never slowed down from his introduction and is still playing just as an important role as he did when he was introduced in Super's current (maybe final) arc. Introduced as one of earth's greatest threats, now he's one of its greatest defenders.

Piccolo's sacrifice was really well done and I assume it was a very big surprise to everyone back then as he was the first villain to turn to the other side like that.

Goku was a complete badass here, the Kaioken he used against Nappa is one of my favorite Goku and DB moments and the way he toyed with Nappa really showed how far he'd come since Raditz and how serious he could get. serious Goku is one of if not the best thing about DB and there's plenty of it here and in the future Z arcs.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby gaberparadiso » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:39 pm

Episode 27

General thoughts: what an episode. The first one in DBZ which I fully enjoyed. For instance, Piccolo's strategy of squeezing Nappa's tail makes sense, but Nappa not having this weakness is even more sensible, which makes him so much different from Raditz. Then, we get to know more about Vegeta's personality: in ep. 25 he was arrogant enough to wait temporarily for Goku's arrival, but now seems to fear his power as he reads a power level of 5000 on his scouter. When he talks about the existence of an other set of DBs on Namek, we can spot a very impulsive side of his personality, because he apparently forgot to turn off his scouter, allowing Freezer to uncover this info. The ending segment is great, with Gohan FINALLY showing some (dragon)balls by kicking Nappa, injuring him in the process. If this sort of thing happened on Super, people would complain about distorted power scaling. But, you know what? I don't care about power levels, at all. This moment is one of my favorite. Needless to say, Piccolo's sacrifice is well built and considerably dramatic. Whilst not being an entirely perfect episode, due to some obnoxious Chichi stuff, I really enjoyed this one.

Entertainment factor: the most enjoyable and engaging episode so far.

Animation: Hashimoto's direction stands out a lot in this one, also through some creative transitions, like that between Nappa attacking Gohan and the malfunctioning TV at Kame House. Art-wise, this is the most solid Studio Live episode of this arc, maybe due to Ebisawa's presence being quite limited. Even though I don't like how he draws female characters, his supervision is actually not bad at all. Just like his animation: despite not being that fantastic, we get some decent flips from Krillin during his battle against Nappa. His timing is passable, as well. This is also the first episode for Tomoya Handa, who worked for Studio Live until ep. 144. His artstyle looks leaner and gentler than Ebisawa's. Though, here he was mostly corrected. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 8701325312

Music: the first sad and dramatic scene to have an appropriate, dramatic and SOLEMN track, M424EXT. That chorus fit into Piccolo's sacrifice PERFECTLY. As a whole, good placement in this one.

Overall thought: 8/10. Good one.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Bear » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:00 am

Episode 26: Eh…

General thoughts: Standard episode. I felt that almost nothing happened but I was still entertained. Stand-out moments include Nappa’s rampages against the army, the reporters and Goku’s arrival.

Entertainment Factor: Somewhat entertaining

Animation: As already pointed out, animation was reused from episode 22 for Nappa’s attack on the city. The animation was somewhat stiff in this episode, with most of the new footage of the attack on the city seeming unfinished with the blast pausing halfway through the stylistic lines. The colours also seemed very saturated, and I’m watching this on the Dragon Box release.

Music: Uses the standerd M7** and M8** tracks established within the last couple of episodes. M706, M740, M741, M742, M802, M803, M814 and M816. And yes, this statement may be repeated so just a heads up.

Overall rating: 7/10
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:05 am

Episodes covered: Dragon Ball Z 26-30 ("Dragon Ball 179-183")


EPISODE 26
* The episode in which Nappa plays GTA for a few hours. Sounds far more entertaining to watch than it actually is, sadly.
* What's with Nappa suddenly using eye lasers? I'd rather they just kept having him shoot mouth blasts for consistency's sake.
* Why does Kaiô actually care about the fate of the Earth? I guess he's just biased towards his own pupils. It makes his character more endearing, so I don't mind it, but as a godly being he should kinda be more neutral (which he is in other scenes, but he does mostly stay on "our" side).
* I do love moments in Dragon Ball where time is running out and we need to go, go, go, hurry~!! The sense of urgency is usually very convincing, especially on a first viewing. I remember being on the edge of my seat during scenes like this as a kid.

EPISODE 27
* OW! The PAIN Piccolo must've felt from that elbow to the skull at a moment when he least expected it.
* Whoah! That static, the moment Gohan gets hit! Did I miss that every other time I watched this episode? I don't remember it at all, but wow, what a transition.
* I love that Kuririn's mobility - which even Vegeta compliments him on - seems to have been incorporated into his FighterZ playstyle.
* Piccolo sensing Goku's approach still gets me hyped for imminent interaction between the two, even though I obviously know what's about to happen. It's crazy to me how quick Piccolo goes from being jubilant to, well, dead. Just goes to show how fast death can sneak up on you...
* I quite enjoyed the overall content and presentation of this episode. The focus isn't on one specific character; Kuririn, Piccolo, Gohan, Vegeta, and Nappa all have great moments. Sadly, the artwork left much to be desired (though it picked up a little in the second half) but I feel like that's the only thing keeping this from being one of the best episodes in the entire series.

EPISODE 28
* Speaking of bad artwork, this episode... doesn't have that. Friggin' gorgeous material here. Such smooth, detailed animation.
* I always found it a little strange that we see Piccolo laying on his stomach first, then on his back the next scene. I guess Gohan just rolled him over or something.
* Not really a fan of the "vocals" (I don't know what you call those) in the music that plays after Piccolo's death. It sounds a bit forced and over-dramatic to me, taking me out of the moment instead of enhancing it. I felt the same when it played at the end of last episode.
* Uranai Baba getting pulled into Kame House was a great little gag.
* Watching Vegeta's first interaction with Goku is so strange, given what we know now. Vegeta is so calm and relaxed in this arc (for now at least), not quite wearing that "perpetually grumpy" look yet. I guess his upcoming struggle against "the lowly Kakarrot" really does affect him that much.
* Aaand yet another reason not to skip the pre-Z stuff - you would never have seen any interaction between Goku and his now-fallen-comrades, possibly making his anger here feel almost forced and out of place. But no, there are years of history between them all. This scene even displays some character development for Goku; he manages to control his emotions incredibly well, considering he must be at least as livid as he was towards Tambourine. The only aspect of this that feels weird is Goku mentioning Chiaotzu, as those two have never interacted in any way that I can remember (aside from the paralysis shenanigans at the 22nd Tenka'ichi Budôkai).

EPISODE 29
* Is this the first real occasion where Goku's lust for battle is showing? His previous fights against deadly foes were always about revenge or saving someone. We never saw Goku "happy" to take on Tao Pai-Pai, Tambourine, Piccolo Daimaô, or Raditz. Maybe Piccolo Jr because he treated it like a tournament match more so than a fight to the death. But now we have Nappa, a dude that massacred a bunch of Goku's friends, yet he's excited to see his full power.
* Great way to introduce the Kaiô-Ken. Comes out of nowhere while at the same time being something that had been foreshadowed long before, and its execution is effective, finally taking out an incredibly tough enemy and intimidating even Vegeta. Oh, and it was animated really well.
* It's easy to take for granted, but I believe this is the first time we see Gohan use bukûjutsu. I kinda wish we'd seen him learn it during his training, or something.
* And on that note; there's no reason for Gohan and Kuririn not to float up at eye-level with Goku. That could've made the handshake even more awesome; Kuririn and Goku, Kame-Sen'nin's old pupils, looking each other in the eye as equals despite their huge difference in power.

EPISODE 30
* AHHHHH. SO GOOD. The words. The poses. The musical score. The animation. The slow build-up and ZOOM we're off.
* Goodbye, Lunch. :'(
* I really don't have much to say about this episode other than that it's flat-out awesome. Aside from the cutaways that some might find irksome but I'm okay with, the only "negative" I can find is that Mayumi Tanaka's Yajirobe didn't quite sound like Yajirobe to me, but more like her Kuririn.


- This batch marks the end of Nappa. Despite being such a short-lived character, he's arguably one of the most memorable and significant, making his way into several video games, for example. What is it about him that's ensured such success?
He's short-lived, sure, but the battle against him goes on for ages, and the fact that so many of our main characters actually die during said battle makes it impossible for Nappa not to be memorable. Which is great, because otherwise he'd just be "random mindless brute". What also helps is that the Saibaimen were dispatched relatively easily, making Nappa's near-invulnerability all the more terrifying.

- Prior to the final battle of this arc beginning, Vegeta speaks very little. What sort of effect/impact do you think this has as far as setting up his character goes?
This is the only time we see him when he's not yet obsessed with defeating and/or surpassing Goku. He seems almost like a different character here. He's very calm and collected, and even kinda playful at times. It's quite a contrast to the upcoming episodes where we suddenly see him go LIVID because "This lowlife is more powerful than me?!?"


Favorite character: Real tough choice this week, but I think Vegeta gets this one, for reasons mentioned above. Sorry, Nappa, you missed out on a spot on this list. You had quite an impact, but your personality is still mostly generic and predictable.
Previous favorites: Raditz, Gohan, the saber-toothed tiger, Kaiô, Tenshinhan.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby gaberparadiso » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:43 pm

Episode 28

General thoughts: this is a good episode... but unfortunately, not as good as I thought it'd be. Which is a shame, because the beginning part is amazing, with the sequence of Piccolo passing to the next dimension, and Gohan using his Masenko on Nappa. Everything seemed to be almost perfect, UNTIL the first Kame House cutaway, with Uranai Baba with her crystal ball. This is a SLAP to those who wanted to see MORE of that showdown, and instead, they're forced to witness another display of annoying characters (Chichi and Bulma...), also by breaking up tension in the process after the Masenko failed. The rest is what you would expect: Goku arrives on the battlefield, and decides to take on Nappa alone, willing to avenge his friends. Although, I don't remember Goku ever connecting with Chaozu before. Interestingly enough, Vegeta's unlikely calm during his first words to Goku, which clashes with his current grumpy attitude.

Entertainment factor: poor and inconsistent direction from Okazaki. It starts strongly, with a dramatic and intense moment, but due to unneeded cutaways, this atmosphere is broken up. This episode represents the main flaw of DBZ, its "bad timing": a dramatic scene getting interrupted by far calmer and often pointless cutaways. That's why Toriyama's original manga is sometimes superior, because it knows when to interrupt.

Animation: this could've been the perfect opportunity to have a solid storyboard, but unfortunately, it's hit and miss. Which sort of jars with Maeda's Fantastic 4, who are the true stars of this episode. Every character looks amazingly on-point and it's really fun to look at four interesting artstyles, yet being so different from each other. Animation-wise, Eguchi is responsible for the beginning part, of Nappa killing Piccolo (with an awesome "Take on Me" sketchy effect) and Kami disappearing, next up is Satou with Gohan's Masenko on Nappa and Goku's arrival (kinda similar to his same appearance in ep. 119 of DB). https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 9789346816 Then Ide from the beginning of the 2nd half to Vegeta reading Goku's power level while powering up, and lastly Nakatsuru with the infamous 'over 9000' scene Nappa trying to land a hit on Goku. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 1778614273

Music: M424EXT sounded perfect in the previous episode, but almost misses the point in this one. I would've preferred to keep that scene SILENT. Furthermore, M707 on Goku's arrival sounds way too happy and not solemn, unlike in the above-mentioned version from Piccolo Daimao arc, which had the unreleased 'Son Goku's Redemption Day', underused and underrated. The rest is okay, with a bunch of M7** and M8**.

Overall thoughts: a strong beginning isn't enough. 7,5/10.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Lord Beerus » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:50 pm

Episodes 26-30

Language: Japanese

General Thoughts: Nappa trying to kill time, while waiting three hours for Goku was kinda boring.

Studio Live strikes with one dog-ugly episode (Episode 27). However, the emotional resonance of Piccolo’s sacrifice is one of the high points in story. It’s an incredibly emotional moment that had a good amount of build up to it. Furukawa and Nozawa’s performances for that scene are just amazing.

Goku arriving to save Gohan from Nappa and aiding him and Krillin is one of the greatest calm-before-the-storm moments I’ve ever witnessed. Goku witnessing the corpses of his fallen comrade while casually avoiding Nappa’s assault just gives me goosebumps.

Goku’s battle against Nappa is Tranquil Fury Incarnate. It’s one of the best laid out one-sided fights I’ve seen in any story. It’s so well done because during this arc the story makes Nappa out to be such a big deal in combat, as well as an absolute scumbag and has the deaths of the characters (at his hands) carry so much weight to them, that when Goku dedicates every blow he lands on Nappa to every fallen comrade of his, it just makes the beatdown even more satisfying and cathartic to watch. I love every second of it.

Shōzō Īzuka’s performance as Nappa is memorising.

Goku providing a glimpse of the Kaioken while kicking Nappa’s ass was just… just.. amazing.

Vegeta callously and casually killing Nappa is a wonderful way of establishing how much of a greater threat Vegeta is compared to Nappa.

Those martial arts stances from Goku and Vegeta before they duke it out will forever be ingrained in Dragon Ball history as an iconic image.

Goku and Vegeta feeling each other out is really entertaining.

Entertainment Factor: Nappa trying to kill time, while waiting three hours for Goku was kinda boring, but after that point the episodes get better and better.

Animation: Episode 27 looked really ugly, but the episode after that looked good.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Taisa732 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:41 pm

Language: Japanese

General Thoughts:
Episode 26: Nothing special happens in this episode, except Nappa destroying those annoying journalists (thank you, Nappa!), and obliviously Goku reaching the end of the path.
Despite being a plain uneventful episode, I will say that it has it's uses. Unlike episode 21 that started almost too much in a rush, this takes it's time to... well, show us the actual passage of time.
Episode 25 stops with Vegeta ordering a time out, so if episode 26 would've started with him saying “time up” we couldn't have the idea that those three hours have passed. Nothing appends here, but for once it's fine.
One word about Piccolo. I like that he “accidentally” becomes the leader of the group. Even if he still is a “bad guy” at this point everybody starts relying on him.

Episode 27: I think three characters shine in this episode. First one being Krillin and the way he handles the situation. Piccolo's plan didn't work and he is left with a five year old who is scared to death, Gohan is doing his best but things are getting worst by the minute and being inexperienced isn't helping. Krillin knows he's no match for Nappa, but that doesn't mean he'll give up. Jumps in to save Gohan and attracts Nappa attention. Maybe he didn't last for long, but putting on a fight even when he doesn't have a fighting chance is what he dose well. And I may argue that is one of the reason that makes him such a good character and a loyal friend in general.
Second one in Vegeta. You're probably wondering why, since he doesn't do anything, but that's the point. For the first time since the beginning of the fight Nappa is having some trouble, getting attached left and right, but still Vegeta is indifferent to it. His detachment to the situation alone tells you how little the good guys are impressing him. Nowadays we know him because he's a hothead with anger management issues, but look at him here. He is calm and thoughtful and never raises his voice except when things are out of his control. And when he does Nappa always freaks out and immediately obeys everything he says. That alone tells you that whatever Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan are doing it's simply not enough to impress him. Plus I love the scene when he tells Nappa to avoid the Kienzan, and how he laughs at Nappa getting in a mess.
Third and final is Piccolo, obviously. This is his moment, the instant where you can finally say that he becomes a good guy indefinitely. We had glimpse of it throughout this arc, after being the previous villain. He launches himself in front of Gohan without even thinking abut it, plus that little flashback he has and the music that fits perfectly with the situation.
This is how you handle a death scene!

Episode 28: One of those episodes that make the history of the franchise (and I'm ignoring memes that may or may not have spawned form here).
Of the five deaths that occur in this arc (including Goku's), Piccolo's is probably the most important one. Suffering form the sins of the father for his entire life and from a lonely existence he ends up making an unexpected friend. Dying for Gohan is Piccolo's redemption the true moment he steps out of the path his father forced him in to. This is also the first and only time we see him crying, while dying with no regret.
Nozawa's Gohan and Furokawa's Piccolo elevate the scene conveying a powerful emotion on both there parts.

The Dragon Ball franchise can be summarized in different icons. Objects, symbols, characters, techniques or whatever you may want to remember the story by.
We can also all agree that Goku and Vegeta's rivalry/friendship is one of those things that transcend just the Dragon Ball world being known by everyone, even “casuals”. And that is why this episode is so important.
It's where Goku and Vegeta meet for the first time, where they first look at each other thinking “You're the guy I need to defeat”. I know this is more of a hindsight type of thing that becomes important if you know the characters and where they'll end up. But, you can't tell me that after watching Super nowadays, seeing this two fighting side by side as friends, making each other stronger, and looking back at the moment there eyes first meet you don't have chills. It just gets better and better.
Everything starts from here, one of the biggest and well known rivalries of all time.

Episode 29: So, Goku has arrived on the battlefield and he's ready to fight the saiyans. Like I've said form day one, the build-up to the main villain, and by extend our hero's, is probably one of the strongest parts of this arc. Raditz was step one, but everything else that happens is simply one more forward.
When Goku makes a fool out of Nappa, Vegeta is still unimpressed. He's more annoyed he has to step into the “ring” himself, just to crush a lowlife, than worried about seeing his companion getting humiliated.
I like the story Nappa tells Goku after Vegeta decides to fight. It's our first hint that Vegeta is more than just an elite (although we still don't know about his noble title). Plus I like the reason of why he has the same name as the planet they all come from.
Vegeta killing Nappa is once again a demonstration of power and strength, showing us that it wasn't just trash talk. Even Goku is starting to think “maybe it wouldn't be that easy”, and he's the one who has just beaten up Nappa.
In retrospect I like to think that this is something Vegeta has inherited form Freezer, killing incompetent subjects. I like the idea that Vegeta has seen Freezer doing it for all is life, so it's logical and normal for him. But that's just my thought.
(Can I also point out how much I love Nozawa everytime she says Kaioken?)
One last thing, from here on you can actually spot Vegeta learning to sense ki. He already started doing it after blowing up Nappa (when he's looking for Goku and co.). I always love that because it doesn't come out of nowhere before he goes on Namek, but it also isn't too obvious and you'll notice it if you've been paying enough attention.

Episode 30: Goku vs Vegeta, the main fight, and an other episode that makes history. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the dialogue on the rocks, to the point I know it line by line (fine, not in Japanese, but still). Love the symbolism, with Vegeta, the elite, on the high rock and Goku, the lowlife, on the low rock. This scene alone makes the episode what it is.

Entertainment Factor: Like I said, we have some big episodes that contributed to make Dragon Ball what it is today. Piccolo's death, and his relationship with Gohan, and the beginning of Goku and Vegeta's rivalry. Very impressive five episodes.

Animation: Good bunch of episodes as far as animation. Goku and Nappa's fight is pretty nice.
The scene on the rocks is great, with the rotation.

- This batch marks the end of Nappa. Despite being such a short-lived character, he's arguably one of the most memorable and significant, making his way into several video games, for example. What is it about him that's ensured such success?

Nice question! First of all I think that one important factor is that he is a saiyan. There is no denying that we are fascinated be them, not only because it's our protagonist's race. The more the story progresses the more we want to know about them. Case and point we have a new movie about them coming out.
So we are left wondering, what if Nappa survived? How this saiyan would've played out in the story. Same goes for Raditz.
Nappa was probably the most “traditional saiyan” of the three, so he most likely was more in line with the entire race.
You can also count the fact that he was in Freezer's army and he was the oldest of the saiyans.
Judging by “Bardack father of Goku” he was an important figure for young Vegeta and most probably he was for Raditz as well.
But the most important reason I think he left a mark is because of Vegeta. Nappa appears first with one of the most well-known and loved characters of the franchise and he helps to establish him as a character and as a villain. Vegeta's development in this first phase is buildup thanks to Nappa, among other things.
Nappa and Vegeta have a nice dynamic and you can't think of Vegeta's introduction if you don't think at Nappa.

- Prior to the final battle of this arc beginning, Vegeta speaks very little. What sort of effect/impact do you think this has as far as setting up his character goes?

It goes a long way. I've already mentioned a couple of instants where Vegeta speaks almost unexpectedly giving him more depth and helps to solidify his status as an evil menace.
My favourite is his dialogue with Piccolo in episode 25, and that's an example. Vegeta doesn't speak for most of the fight, giving him this mysterious vibe, but when he does you immaterially pay attention. Every word he says has some weight to it and you feel you need to remember every one of them. Horikawa's interpretation is also perfect, giving even more emphasise every time he does speak.
To be fair even today Vegeta isn't chatterbox, and it's where a lot of his charm comes from. A glance or a grunt and he already told you everything you need to know and more.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby gaberparadiso » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:27 pm

Episode 29

General thoughts: another good episode. We finally see the Kaioken in action, and learn more about Vegeta: up to now we know he's much stronger than Nappa, and decides to take on Goku not because he's worried about his power, but because he's annoyed by Nappa getting beaten. And his decision to kill him shows how much he was similar to Freezer from this perspective, since both of them can't stand weaklings. Nothing much to say, I liked this one.

Entertainment factor: enjoyable and a lot better directed than the last one.

Animation: once again, solid storyboarding from Ueda. Nonetheless, in terms of artwork, this episode looks far less polished and accurate than the last one, also because of Last House availing of only 3 weeks. Speaking of the action itself, The Kaioken scene seems to be animated by Shida, despite Uchiyama's heavy corrections, whereas Tai'ichiro Ohara provides key animation on Nappa's execution. Notice how his death expression is similar to Freezer's in ep. 105. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0625021439

Music: decent placement. Nothing wrong, nothing excellent. M806 at the end sounds really fitting.

Overall thoughts: 7,5/10. Nice.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Bear » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:08 am

Episode 27: The Legend of Ebisawa

General Thoughts: Fun episode. A lot of famous moments, Piccolos sacrifice, first Kienzan etc. It also has the best Chichi moment, if not the only good one.

Entertainment Factor: Entertaing episode. Kept me hooked the entire time, despite its flaws.

Animation: Least favourite Ebisawa episode of this arc. Worst looking, worst animation. It often looks stiff. Some exceptional scenes are Gohan’s kick against Nappa, both Kuririn’s and Gohan’s reactions to Nappa’s Bomber DX and the final two shots of Piccolo’s sacrifice. To whoever was in charge of the storyboarding, why were their so many cuts between Kuririn and Nappa when the former was falling. Irks usually used to hint at something like a secret attack but not this time.

Music: Standard pieces of music during these last couple of episodes, however some stand out ones include the unreleased M815 after the Kienzan hits Nappas face, M818 when they all notice Goku’s Ki and of course M424EXT, which really fits the mood, and finally adds some variety to the score with a track from Dragon Ball Movie 2.

General score: 6.5/10
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby gaberparadiso » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Episode 30

General thoughts: this is a pillar of the DB history, the beginning of a memorable fight, between Son Goku and Vejituh. The two exchange an important dialogue, which describes how Goku can overcome his limits, despite being a low-class Saiyan. However, what makes this fight different from other Goku vs Vegeta fights, is that it's one-way here. Vegeta seems to have the upper hand on Goku, despite a two times Kaioken. That's why the latter decides to upgrade his Kaioken, making it 3 TIMES stronger, to Kaio's fear. This was, as expected, a great episode, even though the Kame House cutaways are pointless. This was Lunch's last appearance, and honestly, it happens in a very dark and rueful fashion: she's getting drunk due to Tenshinhan's death. Spooky.

Entertainment factor: enjoyable and also well-directed.

Animation: first time for Tatsuya Orime on storyboarding, and he actually knows how to create tension and atmosphere: during Vegeta's power up, the sky is cloudy with hurricanes, and crows are seen escaping. This apparently meaningless detail is important. I think power-up sequences are really frequent in Orime's episodes, in fact the sequence with Vegeta is really similar to that one from episode 84, and both of them are ironically animated by Hideko Okimoto. Her artstyle is different from Aoshima, as it looks slightly closer to Nakatsuru, and her smoke effect kinda resembles Shida's. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 9321703425 This is the last Freelance DBZ episode, but not the very last material for Aoshima himself, since he would provide key animations on some of the following movies. Nonetheless, despite a decent rotation during Goku and Vegeta's dialogue, his animation is not that great and lacks of impact, sometimes.

Music: good placement as a whole. I didn't find any particularly unfitting track here.

Overall thoughts: 8/10, good one.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Bear » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:30 am

Episode 28: Now that’s better

General Thoughts: Despite the fact I’ve seen it so many times, I still get chills from Popo’s “Kami-sama! KAMI-SAMA!” The par with Urunai Baba is something that I have surprisingly forgotten about, as it is one of the few cutaway scenes that 8 actually like!

Entertainment factor: Enjoyable,although it started to drag out by the end.

Animation: On model and looks far better than much of the previous episode. Animation wise, the episode starts off strong with the continuation of Piccolo’s sacrifice, as well as Gohan’s Masenko. Unfortunately by the time Goku and Nappa start fighting it’s the usual quick jabs and blocking. They look good, but it could have been much better.

Music: Finally the themes of movie 1 feel important. From here on tracks like M813 and M816 are used in situations deserving of them. And I actually enjoy the use of M707, but the unreleased one gaberparadiso mentioned would also work well.

Score: 10/10
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Ajay » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:16 pm

Episode 26

Not really the most entertaining episode ever. It's pretty much the misadventures of Nappa while waiting for Goku to arrive. Ueda's directing Takenouchi's storyboard, which is unusual to see - he typically directs his own boards. It's mostly serviceable, but much like the episode's content, it's hardly anything to write home about.

Animation-wise, this is roughly the kind of episode to expect from Uchiyama and his crew at this point. The artwork is middling, but the key animators - in this case, Ohara and Shida - are elevating the episode with some impressive motion. I particularly enjoyed Ohara's scene with Nappa blowing up the planes. It's not easy to do vehicle animation!


Episode 27

Love this. It's not that often we get to see real coordination with multiple foes against one, so I did get a little giddy seeing their (attempted) teamwork, here. The Tournament of Power in Super could learn a lot from this, but... alas, it's too late. The inclusion of Piccolo's death as a cliffhanger finale doesn't quite work for me as I feel the impact is lost by pushing the fallout into the next episode. At the same time, I do kinda love everything about it; the music, the dramatic slow-mo - everything. It might not be as strong as when it's reanimated in #28, but it's decent.

I can't really say the same for Ebisawa's corrections on the whole here, however. In the past few Ebisawa-lead episodes, we've had the shaky artwork made up for by some neat little bits of movement, but this is a fairly static episode, with only a few exceptions for the executed attacks. It lets down what's an otherwise great episode packed with awesome content.

Because that content's so awesome, I do have a hard time letting it get to me much, so I'm pretty much content with that.


Episode 28

This is probably one of the most iconic episodes in this batch next to #30. From Piccolo's wonderful death speech to Goku arriving, and the whole Over 9000 8000 meme - there's a lotta stuff that's deeply ingrained in the fandom's collective memory, here. I'm not convinced that it's all 100% executed as well as could have been - I don't really care much for the Goku vs Nappa action, for example - but the most critical moments hit their mark, and it looks absolutely gorgeous.

Hisashi Eguchi and Masaki Sato are on fire in this first half. Their artwork is just terrific. Takeo Ide kinda lets the side down a little towards the start of part B, but the final moments pick themselves up again. I don't much care for Ide, even these days, but I'm looking forward to watching his style develop. He changed quite a lot throughout the series. I'm trying my best to savour ever little bit of Eguchi I can since he'll be leaving us after #64!


Episode 29

I can't quite decide whether I like this or #26 the least out of this batch. I'm very surprised since this is another Ueda episode, and he's typically been great. This is by far his weakest appearance on Z yet. There's very little sense of drama or scale to the fights, so it comes across as a pretty lacklustre final fight with Nappa.

Last House's rough work certainly doesn't help matters. It's a stark contrast to #26; while Shida and Ohara elevated that episode with nice animation, leaving me pretty okay with lacklustre artwork, this episode has pretty much none of that, and Uchiyama's looking rougher than ever. It makes for good comparisons, I guess?

This shouldn't really feel like pointless padding, but it kinda does, and that's a real shame. I enjoy this section a lot in the manga, so I'm definitely not too pleased that it wasn't translated too well to the screen.


Episode 30

It's a big one! I mean, what can you even say about this?! It's the start of one of the most iconic fights in the series, and it's done so damn well. It's animated by only two people! Aoshima and Okimoto put their all into this first half, and it really shows. It never stops moving! Even during one of the dialogue scenes, they animate some neat rotations. It's a real triumph.

The second half doesn't fare quite as a well, of course, and that's understandable considering the staff size and the aforementioned scale of the fight in part A. The long cutaway to Lunch is a bit peculiar and breaks up the tension a little, but the magnitude of the fight is never really lost, so by the time it cuts back, things are kicked right back into gear again. Thank god for that!

Hugely entertaining, and I'm kind of glad I left this til today cause now I get to jump right back into things! Let's go~
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Bear » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:15 am

Episode 29: Goodbye Nappa, hello Ghost Nappa

General Thoughts: Alright episode, however it has many flaws. The cutaway scene with the gang at Kame house is unneeded, and unlike last episode’s it didn’t have the same charm. Also the weirdest piece of music choice for that scene was used. To answer Ajays question about Nappa’s impact on the franchise, despite how little time was given, was most likely because of his impact within the series itself. Him killing piccolo, is why they went to Namek, there they found Freeza, Goku went Super Saiyan, Freeza was defeated and came back to Earth, gets killed by Trunks, Trunks warm the Goku of the Artificial Humans, the Artificial Humans appear, Cell goes after the Artificial Humans and becomes perfect, Cell kills Goku, Goku comes back, Buu appears, Buu is defeated, Buu leads to Beeris getting mad, that leads to Super Saiyan God, then The Universe 6 tournament, then the Tournament of Power. Him killing Piccolo lead to what we have today. That and enveryone who died against him and Vegeta were killed by him. Except for that one scrub who was killed by a Saibaiman.

Entertainment Factor: Enjoyable enough

Animation: Alright, seems limited though in some areas. I did however think that Goku’s Kaioken, and Nappa’s death were the best parts. Like episode 26, another Uchiyama episode, the colours are horrible. The shot Nappa’s Mouth blast looks like an OG Pokémon card artwork, and Goku’s Kamehameha looks like a stock photo for the first “Z” Ga,e on the Famicom. Nappa’s blood is black for some reason as well, on every release, so it’s obviously the colouring. Standard episode in terms of animation.

Music: Standard music they’ve been playing for these last few episodes, and none are exactly memorable, except for M813. It starts of with Goku and Nappa’s stare off, but then cuts to the Kame house, where Bulma is kicking the ball around. Really odd placement, at least in my opinion.

Overall Rating: 8/10
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby Bear » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:33 am

Episode 30: Finally! Goku vs. Vegeta

General Thoughts: What a great episode! So many awesome moments, Goku’s Kaioken against Vegeta, Vegeta’s powerup. The fight is amazing. This is also Lunch’s last appearance until the Buu arc, and is it Just me, or do you want to give her a hug. She just seems so lonely. :(

Entertainment Factor: Of there was an episode that I would rewatch in this arc, it would be this one, so good.

Animation: Off the bay, the backgrounds by Studio Wyeth are amazing and the pink art at the end is gorgeous. Not to mention The staredown, Goku’s Kaioken, Vegeta’s powerup, it’s amazing. And the action is memorable. Vegeta yelling “Ober here!” Then kicking Goku towards a pillar and flipping upwards. The action in not just this episode, but a majority of this fight are so memorable compared to so many later fights.

Music: Sure, they’re the stock standard music for the second half of the arc, but all these tracks are used to their fullest in this episode, I’d name them, but It’d take up so much space. I think it’s because they sound more, potent? They’re used to their fullest and you can easily hear and get a feel of every single one.

Overall Rating: 10/10
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 26-30 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 6]

Postby JazzMazz » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:59 am

#30

General Thoughts: A great start to one of the most iconic fights in the franchise. Really engaging stuff, hell even the cutaways were fairly atmospheric and added tension to the main battle.

Animation: Had a very animated first half, with a fair bit more static second. I would say this episode is quite a feat considering only two people worked as KA. I enjoyed the scale conveyed through the storyboard, the direction was also nice.

Entertainment factor: Again, an extremely entertaining episode. It was completely engaging throughout.


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