How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

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tinlunlau
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by tinlunlau » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:28 pm

The Dragon Ball Super hiatus is perfect time for me to watch dbgt. As for the topic of wuxia, Dragonball has always incorporated elements of wuxia but it's also had its share of sci-fi elements as well. It's not entirely wuxia but rather a mix of everything.

Not every Jin Yong stories are considered wuxia. Even Jin Yong himself has gone on to express over and over again with his opinion on The Duke of Mount Deer not being a wuxia story since the main protagonist Wei Xiai-bao is not a fighter as he uses his quick wits and gadgets to get through every obstacle in his way.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:04 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:This is just to tag you.Can you recommend any wuxia anime and manga.I have watched fist of north star.But,the real question I want to ask you was that what is sea and mountain mythology and are universes of dragon ball based on it?I saw a wuxia expert on another forum saying that
My exams are coming so I won't be reading or watching anything new for a while.However,I will recommend to watch OG db seems like a lot of haven't still watched it.
Sorry I didn't see this till just earlier.

I don't know what this other person is talking about with "sea and mountain mythology", unless its some weird translation of Jianghu they're going by (which generally translates as "rivers and lakes"). Jianghu, as noted many time, is the traditional Chinese martial arts fantasy setting of the vast majority of wuxia stories (which the Dragon Ball world makes heavy use of).

As far as Wuxia recommendations go, for now I'll just stick to some stuff you can easily get off Amazon:

- Zu: Warriors From the Magic Mountain
- A Touch of Zen
- Duel to the Death
- Storm Riders
- Bastard Swordsman
- Return of the Bastard Swordsman
- A Chinese Odyssey parts 1 and 2
- Eagle Shooting Heroes
- Ashes of Time (Redux version: contains replacement score, original much harder to come by without ebay or torrenting)
- A Chinese Ghost Story
- A Chinese Ghost Story II
- Buddha's Palm (1982 Shaw Bros.) - Amazon Video only
- Buddha's Palm (2004 TV miniseries)
- A Man Called Hero
- Holy Flame of the Martial World
- The Swordsman II
- Legend of Zu
- Shaolin Prince
- The Kung Fu Cult Master
- Spooky Encounters
- Heaven and Hell
- The Avenging Eagle
- Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame
- Mad Monk
- A Chinese Tall Story
- Kung Fu Hustle
- Tai Chi Zero

And as a bonus, some very relevant non-Wuxia Kung Fu films that every DB fan should see:

- The 36th Chamber of Shaolin
- King Boxer/Five Fingers of Death
- Drunken Master
- Snake in the Eagle's Shadow
- Heroes of the East
- Bruce Lee Collection
- The Five Deadly Venoms
- Executioner From Shaolin
- 8 Diagram Pole Fighter

And for Manhua (Chinese manga/comics), here's three Ma Wing Shing classics to get anyone started. These links are for the first volume of each respective series: further volumes can easily be found on Amazon.

- Chinese Hero
- Storm Riders
- Heaven Sword & Dragon Sabre
tinlunlau wrote:As for the topic of wuxia, Dragonball has always incorporated elements of wuxia but it's also had its share of sci-fi elements as well. It's not entirely wuxia but rather a mix of everything.
Like I said before, Wuxia's done more than its fair share of genre-mixing throughout the past 30+ years, including with sci fi. None of the sci fi elements present in DB/Z dilute the core Wuxia themes and nature of the story. All they amount to is surface-level window dressing, same as the sci fi elements do with Star Wars' own innate fantasy core. Just as the presence of aliens and spaceships don't diminish SW ultimately being vastly more fantasy-driven than sci fi, nor do the same elements diminish DB from still being predominantly martial arts fantasy-driven at its core.
tinlunlau wrote:Not every Jin Yong stories are considered wuxia. Even Jin Yong himself has gone on to express over and over again with his opinion on The Duke of Mount Deer not being a wuxia story since the main protagonist Wei Xiai-bao is not a fighter as he uses his quick wits and gadgets to get through every obstacle in his way.
While not every Jing Yong work has been wuxia (including yes, Duke of Mount Deer, which is its own unique little oddity), the OVERWHELMING majority of them have been. Its the genre that the man is indeed by far and away the most known and recognized for and is synonymous with, just as JRR Tolkien is synonymous with Western/European High Fantasy.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by sintzu » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:28 pm

As sad as it is to see DB go for awhile, it'll prevent another GT as the writers will have time to come up with interesting stories and fans will be less likely to get franchise fatigue.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:09 pm

I don't think it's a simple as having more time. GT was flawed in execution. The fights were simply boring.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:33 pm

In terms of story potential, there are still the exempted universes, who might have some threats or something, that might just first act now, due to whatever.
If there really is no god above Zeno and Zalama is a dud, well that's about it.
Now that Goku and Vegeta are on the cusp of equaling or surpassing Beerus, where do we go from here? Time to retool the show and make it about one of Goku's other passions; delicious food. Maybe then Buu can have an active role in the plot.

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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:33 am

ABED wrote:I don't think it's a simple as having more time. GT was flawed in execution. The fights were simply boring.
If they had more time to look at different excution options then things may have turned out better. The show's writer himself says the staff wasn't happy with the ideas they had for the first arc which most likely would've change had they gotten more time to work on ideas.

DB was a huge hit at the time so there was no need to rush something out that fast as people' wouldn't have lost interest in the franchise for not having content for 6 or so months.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:34 am

I haven't really been watching DBS, so I'm fine with the hiatus. I'm actually just now continuing my watchthru of DBZ from years ago. I've seen DB twice thru now, but I stopped in the middle of DBZ around when the Gokuh was fighting Android No. 19. I'm also watching the movies and TV specials. I've never seen them before, so this is all pretty exciting for me. 22 years after my first episode of Dragon Ball and I'm STILL not caught up yet. Haha. Hopefully I can get to (and thru) the first season of DBS before the inevitable Season Two comes about.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:01 am

sintzu wrote:
ABED wrote:I don't think it's a simple as having more time. GT was flawed in execution. The fights were simply boring.
If they had more time to look at different excution options then things may have turned out better. The show's writer himself says the staff wasn't happy with the ideas they had for the first arc which most likely would've change had they gotten more time to work on ideas.

DB was a huge hit at the time so there was no need to rush something out that fast as people' wouldn't have lost interest in the franchise for not having content for 6 or so months.
The fight against Kid Buu and the beginning of GT was a matter of weeks. You think that in that time, they got so exhausted they couldn't come up with exciting fights? They had decades before Super and the impression I get is people don't like those.

Sure, time is an asset when writing stories, but GT's biggest problem was the boring fights. Toriyama worked for nearly a decade straight and yet some of the best fights are late in the run.

I think the biggest issue is lack of talent, not time.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:19 am

ABED wrote:The fight against Kid Buu and the beginning of GT was a matter of weeks. You think that in that time, they got so exhausted they couldn't come up with exciting fights? I think the biggest issue is lack of talent, not time.

Sure, time is an asset when writing stories, but GT's biggest problem was the boring fights.

Toriyama worked for nearly a decade straight and yet some of the best fights are late in the run.

They had decades before Super and the impression I get is people don't like those.
From GT's page here : "The main staff of the series experienced some significant changes, with the majority leaving to pursue other endeavors". GT had some great ideas so the talen was there but I think with them being new they needed more time to get things in order.

That is an issue and if time wasn't the problem then whoever was responsible for choreography clearly didn't have what it took to continue Toriyama and the previous staff's work which I think goes back to time cause if Toei didn't rush things they would've been able to talk and work with different people to see what would work.

They weren't that late though as each final in the tournaments were really well done, especially Piccolo's.

Super has its issues but based on numbers it's a huge success, bigger than they expected.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:34 am

sintzu wrote:They weren't that late though as each final in the tournaments were really well done, especially Piccolo's.
I was talking about all of DB, which includes Z. Some really great fights happen in both the Cell and even the Buu arc.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:40 am

ABED wrote:I was talking about all of DB, which includes Z. Some really great fights happen in both the Cell and even the Buu arc.
I know, my point was that although it took him a while to get to Freeza and Cell level of fights, there were still really good ones early on like the 3 I mentioned.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:22 pm

sintzu wrote:
ABED wrote:I was talking about all of DB, which includes Z. Some really great fights happen in both the Cell and even the Buu arc.
I know, my point was that although it took him a while to get to Freeza and Cell level of fights, there were still really good ones early on like the 3 I mentioned.
I'm REALLY confused. I don't know what you are talking about. All I said was that Toriyama had a huge workload over a long time and even into the Buu arc, he made up some terrific fights, which GT didn't during it's entire run, so time wasn't as much of a factor. The stories may not have been as good nor the fights, but there were still a few here and there late into the show. Toriyama was running on fumes towards then (even if he was still having fun), he could still create memorable fights. Yet, when Z becomes GT, there's not one great fight in that entire show.

I understand time play an important factor in the creative process, but it's not the only one that matters. The other big factor is talent.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to ease the pain of the upcoming hiatus

Post by SuperCyan2 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:27 pm

Never had this issue then again, I was never a huge fan of Super as it feels like a tacky, cheap, trashy, fast-food-like show (IMO).

There are plenty of GREAT shows out there but also more than that, traveling to other places (cities, countries) and listening to music you've never heard before.
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