Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:30 pm

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-featur ... d-guys-now

Another villainous #1 for Vegeta! He beat Kaiba, Takasugi and Aizen.
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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:28 pm

lancerman wrote:
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Donald Duck is much more popular than Mickey Mouse...
lol. I like the duck better too. You know what I mean though. When people think of Dragon Ball the defining character is Goku. I like Vegeta better in many respects, but Goku's the guy.

It's kind of like how in Star Wars everyone knows Luke is the protagonist but Darth Vader is the character that people think of when it comes to the series. That's what Char is. He's surpassed his protagonist. The last story of Amuro/Char wasn't called "Amuro's last stand" or anything like that. It was called Char's Counterattack. They knew who the money maker was.

Now I think Dragon Ball as a property is more iconic nowadays (I can't speak to the 80's and 90's) and Goku is like the Mickey Mouse of anime (hence the Donald Duck comparison I made) so I can completely see why he would get the nod. However, Gundam is an extremely popular anime in it's own right and in that one the rival is the star.
Vader is the primary antagonist. It's not surprising that the antagonist with the great design is more popular than even the protagonist. It's not uncommon for the antagonist of a story to be more popular than the hero.
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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by AloversGaming » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:57 pm

When was the last time Goku seen Vegeta as his rival? To me it has felt like Goku lost interest in Vegeta as soon as he arrived on Namek. Regardless of how many times Vegeta has caught up or even surpassed Goku, the rivalry has always felt more like Vegeta trying to get Goku's attention.

And Gary Oak at number 3? Didn't he stop being a trainer in a season of Pokemon that aired in the early 2000s? Anime be having them slim pickings.

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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:32 pm

AloversGaming wrote:When was the last time Goku seen Vegeta as his rival? To me it has felt like Goku lost interest in Vegeta as soon as he arrived on Namek. Regardless of how many times Vegeta has caught up or even surpassed Goku, the rivalry has always felt more like Vegeta trying to get Goku's attention.

And Gary Oak at number 3? Didn't he stop being a trainer in a season of Pokemon that aired in the early 2000s? Anime be having them slim pickings.
Why does the perception factor into it at all? They are both competing for the same thing. Both want to be the best. Ergo, Vegeta is Goku's rival whether Goku sees it that way or not.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by AloversGaming » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:02 am

ABED wrote:
AloversGaming wrote:When was the last time Goku seen Vegeta as his rival? To me it has felt like Goku lost interest in Vegeta as soon as he arrived on Namek. Regardless of how many times Vegeta has caught up or even surpassed Goku, the rivalry has always felt more like Vegeta trying to get Goku's attention.

And Gary Oak at number 3? Didn't he stop being a trainer in a season of Pokemon that aired in the early 2000s? Anime be having them slim pickings.
Why does the perception factor into it at all? They are both competing for the same thing. Both want to be the best. Ergo, Vegeta is Goku's rival whether Goku sees it that way or not.
Perception matters for me at least because there's a lot of DB characters with that same goal of being the best, growing stronger. With Goku's lack of interest in his rivals; it makes Tenshinhan is just as much Goku's rival as Vegeta.

And as of the ToP tournament; Gohan, Caulifia, and Freeza all have interest in growing powerful enough to beat Goku. Then there's Hit and Jiren. All these characters I named have also had Goku show interest in their progress.

And let's not forget Beerus; the one being Goku would love to have a rematch against and defeat.

I don't get why DB fans are so focused on Vegeta being Goku's number one rival when Goku hasn't been interested in him since Namek (and even more so post training for the Cell Games). There's been so many more characters introduced that caught Goku's eye and have helped push him to new heights.

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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:54 am

AloversGaming wrote:
ABED wrote:
AloversGaming wrote:When was the last time Goku seen Vegeta as his rival? To me it has felt like Goku lost interest in Vegeta as soon as he arrived on Namek. Regardless of how many times Vegeta has caught up or even surpassed Goku, the rivalry has always felt more like Vegeta trying to get Goku's attention.

And Gary Oak at number 3? Didn't he stop being a trainer in a season of Pokemon that aired in the early 2000s? Anime be having them slim pickings.
Why does the perception factor into it at all? They are both competing for the same thing. Both want to be the best. Ergo, Vegeta is Goku's rival whether Goku sees it that way or not.
Perception matters for me at least because there's a lot of DB characters with that same goal of being the best, growing stronger. With Goku's lack of interest in his rivals; it makes Tenshinhan is just as much Goku's rival as Vegeta.

And as of the ToP tournament; Gohan, Caulifia, and Freeza all have interest in growing powerful enough to beat Goku. Then there's Hit and Jiren. All these characters I named have also had Goku show interest in their progress.

And let's not forget Beerus; the one being Goku would love to have a rematch against and defeat.

I don't get why DB fans are so focused on Vegeta being Goku's number one rival when Goku hasn't been interested in him since Namek (and even more so post training for the Cell Games). There's been so many more characters introduced that caught Goku's eye and have helped push him to new heights.
Except that Tenshinhan falls SO far behind it's like saying some minor league baseball player is a rival to surefire hall of fame player. That's a HUGE reach. So no, Tenshinhan isn't as much of a rival.

Gohan doesn't have the same goals as Goku.
Beerus is stronger but he's not after the same goals.
Freeza was dead for years.

Vegeta is a step behind Goku but has occasional moments where he surpasses Goku. He's constantly on Goku's heels. No one has stayed close to Goku longer than Vegeta.
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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by lancerman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:09 pm

ABED wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Donald Duck is much more popular than Mickey Mouse...
lol. I like the duck better too. You know what I mean though. When people think of Dragon Ball the defining character is Goku. I like Vegeta better in many respects, but Goku's the guy.

It's kind of like how in Star Wars everyone knows Luke is the protagonist but Darth Vader is the character that people think of when it comes to the series. That's what Char is. He's surpassed his protagonist. The last story of Amuro/Char wasn't called "Amuro's last stand" or anything like that. It was called Char's Counterattack. They knew who the money maker was.

Now I think Dragon Ball as a property is more iconic nowadays (I can't speak to the 80's and 90's) and Goku is like the Mickey Mouse of anime (hence the Donald Duck comparison I made) so I can completely see why he would get the nod. However, Gundam is an extremely popular anime in it's own right and in that one the rival is the star.
Vader is the primary antagonist. It's not surprising that the antagonist with the great design is more popular than even the protagonist. It's not uncommon for the antagonist of a story to be more popular than the hero.
It's not that common. Especially in the case of Char and Vader where they became the face of their franchises in lieu of the hero. You only really see it in horror franchises where the star is actually the villain. There's few anime's were the rival antagonist is a better representation of the series than the main protagonist. Char's really the only one I can think of off the top of my head. Vader in Star Wars is the same.

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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by lancerman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:13 pm

AloversGaming wrote:
ABED wrote:
AloversGaming wrote:When was the last time Goku seen Vegeta as his rival? To me it has felt like Goku lost interest in Vegeta as soon as he arrived on Namek. Regardless of how many times Vegeta has caught up or even surpassed Goku, the rivalry has always felt more like Vegeta trying to get Goku's attention.

And Gary Oak at number 3? Didn't he stop being a trainer in a season of Pokemon that aired in the early 2000s? Anime be having them slim pickings.
Why does the perception factor into it at all? They are both competing for the same thing. Both want to be the best. Ergo, Vegeta is Goku's rival whether Goku sees it that way or not.
Perception matters for me at least because there's a lot of DB characters with that same goal of being the best, growing stronger. With Goku's lack of interest in his rivals; it makes Tenshinhan is just as much Goku's rival as Vegeta.

And as of the ToP tournament; Gohan, Caulifia, and Freeza all have interest in growing powerful enough to beat Goku. Then there's Hit and Jiren. All these characters I named have also had Goku show interest in their progress.

And let's not forget Beerus; the one being Goku would love to have a rematch against and defeat.

I don't get why DB fans are so focused on Vegeta being Goku's number one rival when Goku hasn't been interested in him since Namek (and even more so post training for the Cell Games). There's been so many more characters introduced that caught Goku's eye and have helped push him to new heights.
Vegeta lasted longer as a pure rival or somebody whose goal was to surpass Goku. Tenshinhan became an ally after one arc same with Piccolo. Neither really spent their time wanting to defeat Goku after their initial arc. Vegeta hated and wanted to defeat Goku from his first arc to the last arc of the series and him getting over that was a big part of the resolution of the final arc of the series. And in every continuation after that he still was trying to pass Goku.

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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:34 pm

I wrote "more popular" not the face.

Vader is the face of the franchise, in large part because he's the central figure of episodes 1-6.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by lancerman » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:16 pm

ABED wrote:I wrote "more popular" not the face.

Vader is the face of the franchise, in large part because he's the central figure of episodes 1-6.
He was the face of the franchise before 1-3 when Luke was the clear protagonist

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Re: Vegeta voted No 1 anime rival

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:26 pm

lancerman wrote:
ABED wrote:I wrote "more popular" not the face.

Vader is the face of the franchise, in large part because he's the central figure of episodes 1-6.
He was the face of the franchise before 1-3 when Luke was the clear protagonist
I don't want to get to where we can't see the forest from the trees especially since we agree that Vegeta is Goku's most significant rival.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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