Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

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Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Houren » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:34 pm

Hey guys, recently I've been wanting to rewatch Dragon Ball (and see the King Piccolo/ Piccolo Jr sagas for the first time)
Since I'd mostly be watching this for nostalgia, I'd preferably want a DVD release the features the dub that aired on Toonami back in the day, with no recasts or anything like that. Since I know several DVD releases of Dragon Ball Z have been redone, with revised scripts and alterations to the cast.
And then there's Dragon Ball (Z) Kai where several characters including Kid Gohan (same voice as Kid Goku) have been recast.
I'm just curious, was this ever done with the original Dragon Ball?

I've been thinking of buying these DVD sets from Madman Entertainment (I'm from Australia)

https://www.madman.com.au/catalogue/vie ... 16-fatpack
https://www.madman.com.au/catalogue/vie ... 11-fatpack

But before I buy them I want to be sure I'll be getting the version I want. (the fact that the second collection set claims it is "uncut episodes" makes me wonder if these are redubbed or not.)

I've tried looking around online but I can't find much about Dragon Ball DVD releases and changes, only DBZ.

So I figured the best thing to do would be to ask the knowledgeable people on here about it. *If there's anyone who knows anything about Australian DVD releases)
Thanks in Advance

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by SuperCyan2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:18 pm

Oh, I have those fatpacks.

Two things you should know.

#1 - It's uncut and with the English dub by Funimation (original dub, not a redub).
#2 - Madman screwed up episode 83 of the Fortuneteller Baba arc for the Japanese version as such, you have to manually switch the episode before the second part comes on.

The dub produced by Funimation is great (imo) and they use the authentic music (at least they didn't try to "improve" it on DB) but I still prefer the Japanese cast.

P.S. The Madman DVD error also applies on the Manga UK release (it's a repackage).
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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Houren » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:37 pm

Oh I see, that a rather strange error, but at least the English audio is still there. thanks for the warning.
Good to know it's the original Funimation dub, I will probably end up buying these now.
Thanks SuperCyan2 :)

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:23 pm

I know this has already been handled, but I think the original Dragon Ball doesn't have as many variants available for purchase because all the others are unavailable, and Funimation only dubbed DB the one time.

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Houren » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:15 pm

That would explain why i couldn't find any information about redubs and edits for dragon ball compared to Z. good to know. thanks KBABZ

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:30 pm

Houren wrote:That would explain why i couldn't find any information about redubs and edits for dragon ball compared to Z. good to know. thanks KBABZ
Dragon Ball has been edited in the past for broadcast; a few examples include giving Goku boxers for any scenes where he has his pants down, removing these shots outright like the end of the Baba arc against Pilaf, instances of blood, and some of the more explicit Roshi scenes. However these don't apply to the physical release, which retains censorship only through minor wordplay (such as Roshi asking Bulma for a walk rather than a date, or Oolong wishing for comfy underwear rather than "a hot girl's panties"), and that's the only one you can buy/stream since no "raw" uncensored version was ever recorded.

There were two prior US dubs of Dragon Ball, one in 1989 by Harmony Gold, and another in 1995 by Funimation that flopped and swiftly replaced with DBZ. You can't buy those, although amusingly you can listen to the 1995 rescore music by Peter Berring on Spotify!

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:07 pm

KBABZ wrote:Dragon Ball has been edited in the past for broadcast; a few examples include giving Goku boxers for any scenes where he has his pants down, removing these shots outright like the end of the Baba arc against Pilaf, instances of blood, and some of the more explicit Roshi scenes. However these don't apply to the physical release, which retains censorship only through minor wordplay (such as Roshi asking Bulma for a walk rather than a date, or Oolong wishing for comfy underwear rather than "a hot girl's panties"), and that's the only one you can buy/stream since no "raw" uncensored version was ever recorded.
Funimation's uncut Dragon Ball dub is actually very censored, to the point where all references to the fact General Blue is gay are censored out of the dialogue. You could probably write whole essays on the failings of Funimation's Dragon Ball dub, though. Suffice it to say: If you have no other option, the dub will do, but you're much better off watching subbed.
KBABZ wrote:There were two prior US dubs of Dragon Ball, one in 1989 by Harmony Gold, and another in 1995 by Funimation that flopped and swiftly replaced with DBZ. You can't buy those, although amusingly you can listen to the 1995 rescore music by Peter Berring on Spotify!
You can buy the 1995 dub on DVD, actually, though you have to import a used copy from the US.
SuperCyan2 wrote:The dub produced by Funimation is great (imo) and they use the authentic music (at least they didn't try to "improve" it on DB) but I still prefer the Japanese cast.
Funimation's Dragon Ball dub is just as inaccurate as their Z dub was at the time. It really isn't that great a dub. I will admit it's not bad per se. The voice acting is decent, and the music being original is a plus, though most of the insert songs are totally missing, which ruins the impact of several classic scenes.
Ultimately, Funimation's uncut dub of the first 13 episodes is actually less faithful a translation than the 1995 dub in most ways, and the '95 dub had much better voice acting. Though whether that means it's better depends on how much you care about the music, and whether you mind the inconsistency of switching dubs at episode 14(Though the cast at this point was still basically 99% impersonations of the 1995 dub's cast anyway, so it's not too jarring).
SuperCyan2 wrote:Madman screwed up episode 83 of the Fortuneteller Baba arc for the Japanese version as such, you have to manually switch the episode before the second part comes on.
Wrong.
Episode 83 uses dubtitles for the sub track. The issue with episode skipping doesn't apply to these boxsets, I don't think. If it does, it would affect episodes 71-73, and the only solution would be to email Madman and ask for replacement discs.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:28 pm

Robo4900 wrote:Funimation's uncut Dragon Ball dub is actually very censored, to the point where all references to the fact General Blue is gay are censored out of the dialogue. You could probably write whole essays on the failings of Funimation's Dragon Ball dub, though. Suffice it to say: If you have no other option, the dub will do, but you're much better off watching subbed.
Well I meant censored compared to the broadcast version. In terms of General Blue I felt the point came across in his mannerisms such as the association with the rose and sometimes very goody laughter, and his (admittedly very stereotypical) way of speaking. That being said I don't think anyone is complaining about re-writing the scene with Obotchaman. Dear God!

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Shaddy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:59 am

In general they play up Blue's gayness in the dub, what with the ridiculously flamboyant speaking manner. I think the point wasn't to censor that, so much as his being attracted to a child.

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:46 pm

Shaddy wrote:In general they play up Blue's gayness in the dub, what with the ridiculously flamboyant speaking manner. I think the point wasn't to censor that, so much as his being attracted to a child.
In the acting, sure, they had the flamboyant mannerisms, but all dialogue pointing to him being gay was totally removed/rewritten.
KBABZ wrote:Well I meant censored compared to the broadcast version. In terms of General Blue I felt the point came across in his mannerisms such as the association with the rose and sometimes very goody laughter, and his (admittedly very stereotypical) way of speaking. That being said I don't think anyone is complaining about re-writing the scene with Obotchaman. Dear God!
The Obotchaman scene is... Yeah...
Still though, it is censorship, no two ways about it. This is supposed to be an uncut dub, a translation. It's not the job of a translation/dub to make changes to the intent of the show; the wording, you have to have free reign over, but the intent should remain the same. A change like this is not a simple rewording. Remember, a dub should be a translation, not a remake.

A rather notable example of Funi's censorship is Goku talking to Bulma in the bathroom in like episode 2: Originally, he was asking her why she has a butt on her front, and she kicked him out after he said he's 14. In Funi's dub, the whole conversation revolves around Bulma's lack of a tail, and how that would impede her ability to wash her back; she kicks him out after getting tired of his presence.

Plus, you have other random changes like Piccolo "Fighting all across the universe".

It's easy to justify this stuff in the context of when this dub was made, but that doesn't at all affect the fact that these changes were made, and that this dub is very deeply flawed. It just about functions, but really, unless you don't have the option, you really should just watch in Japanese.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:19 pm

Robo4900 wrote:Still though, it is censorship, no two ways about it. This is supposed to be an uncut dub, a translation. It's not the job of a translation/dub to make changes to the intent of the show; the wording, you have to have free reign over, but the intent should remain the same. A change like this is not a simple rewording. Remember, a dub should be a translation, not a remake.

A rather notable example of Funi's censorship is Goku talking to Bulma in the bathroom in like episode 2: Originally, he was asking her why she has a butt on her front, and she kicked him out after he said he's 14. In Funi's dub, the whole conversation revolves around Bulma's lack of a tail, and how that would impede her ability to wash her back; she kicks him out after getting tired of his presence.

Plus, you have other random changes like Piccolo "Fighting all across the universe".

It's easy to justify this stuff in the context of when this dub was made, but that doesn't at all affect the fact that these changes were made, and that this dub is very deeply flawed. It just about functions, but really, unless you don't have the option, you really should just watch in Japanese.
What about cases where the dub team is given creative freedom approval by the owners of the property, like with Samurai Pizza Cats?

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by SuperCyan2 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Wrong.
Episode 83 uses dubtitles for the sub track. The issue with episode skipping doesn't apply to these boxsets, I don't think. If it does, it would affect episodes 71-73, and the only solution would be to email Madman and ask for replacement discs.
Ah, right. I forgot about that too since it's been a while and the worst thing for me was the episode skip. The dubtitles were pretty annoying too, though.
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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 pm

It's such a weird issue, though. I know exactly what you're talking about with that Fortuneteller Baba DVD... but I have it as a single. So that means that they never fixed it. I find it odd that nobody would figure it out or be informed of such a strange error. What's amazing, is that Funimation's U.S. version is perfectly fine (from what I can tell).

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:29 pm

KBABZ wrote:What about cases where the dub team is given creative freedom approval by the owners of the property, like with Samurai Pizza Cats?
That's not what happened. Samurai Pizza Cats happened because the dub team weren't given anything except the video masters to work off of. They weren't specifically given approval to do whatever, the Japanese side just didn't bother/care to give them any materials to actually do anything remotely close to a functional translation.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:32 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:What about cases where the dub team is given creative freedom approval by the owners of the property, like with Samurai Pizza Cats?
That's not what happened. Samurai Pizza Cats happened because the dub team weren't given anything except the video masters to work off of. They weren't specifically given approval to do whatever, the Japanese side just didn't bother/care to give them any materials to actually do anything remotely close to a functional translation.
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

Personally I disagree on Dragon Ball's dub being that bad overall, but I don't see a middle ground for us in the discussion there, heh.

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:37 pm

KBABZ wrote:Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.
Cheers. Happy to be of help. :)
KBABZ wrote:Personally I disagree on Dragon Ball's dub being that bad overall, but I don't see a middle ground for us in the discussion there, heh.
Well, I don't think it's bad, it's just not particularly good. It'll do if you have no other option, but it doesn't go much further than that. That's my view on it.
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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:41 pm

KBABZ wrote:Personally I disagree on Dragon Ball's dub being that bad overall, but I don't see a middle ground for us in the discussion there, heh.
Well, I don't think it's bad, it's just not particularly good. It'll do if you have no other option, but it doesn't go much further than that. That's my view on it.[/quote]
For me it goes along with a fair amount of my bias' towards the dub, so things like Nadolny and nostalgia play a bit part in my preference. I also prefer not to have text on the bottom of the screen distracting me from what's happening.

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:41 pm

KBABZ wrote:For me it goes along with a fair amount of my bias' towards the dub, so things like Nadolny and nostalgia play a bit part in my preference.
Yeah, that's fair.
KBABZ wrote:I also prefer not to have text on the bottom of the screen distracting me from what's happening.
I'm afraid I'll probably never understand this attitude. :lol:
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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:21 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:I also prefer not to have text on the bottom of the screen distracting me from what's happening.
I'm afraid I'll probably never understand this attitude. :lol:
Heh, well it's not exclusive to subbed anime, but subs in general. Whenever text appears at the bottom of the screen, I'm immediately compelled to look down (that is, away from the picture itself) to read them, as a sort of instinctive reflex. This can have it's own problems as I can read the subs much faster than they're being said, which can ruin some of the vocal pacing (imagine the I Am Your Father scene where you can read the pivotal line way before Vader actually says it).

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Re: Madman Entertainment "Dragon Ball the complete collection" DVD question

Post by SuperCyan2 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:35 pm

I was never a big fan of the FUNi dubs but I'd put them in this order:

Kai > DB > GT > Z

The DB dub lacks accuracy and the insert songs but I'd not say that's a big deal as long as you enjoy it, I personally really liked Stephanie as Kid Gokû and I'm sort of glad FUNi never redubbed it or at least not with Clinkenbeard who has an annoying voice, imo. Clinken's voice works for Luffy but Gohan/Gokû deserved a different VA.

P.S. Movie 1 "remastered" included a dub with Clinkenbeard but that DVD looks so bad I just got it for the sake of collection (have all four DB movies in 4x3).
P.P.S I didn't mention Super in that order 'cause it's not a show I really care for.
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