Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

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Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:56 pm

I made this thread because I would like to know how many people preferred Vegeta back in the Saiyan and Namek arcs to the version he is in the Cell and Buu arcs.

Should he also have stayed dead after Freeza killed him?

Personally, I always liked Saiyan and Namek arc Vegeta the most. He was at his most interesting when he was a villain... and I think his fate at the hands of Freeza and his last words to Son Goku was a really good end to his character arc. After that, I found myself increasingly frustrated with Vegeta's involvement because I didn't feel he'd earned the right to be in the position he was and that he basically caused a lot of problems for everyone else.

He just became less interesting overall, in my opinion.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:14 pm

My issue with Vegeta in the Cell arc doesn't stem from him being a pain in the ass to everyone. It's because he keeps doing the same thing over and over and never learns from it. He keeps egging on enemies and gets his ass kicked. After a while, the inability to learn goes from being an interesting impediment to frustrating and boring. The Buu arc is a return to form because he does eventually change.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:00 pm

I'd say Namek/Freeza arc Vegeta was where he was at his best as a character until Super. Cell arc Vegeta is absolutly intolerable and Majin Boo has a great endgame but the lead up to it is poorly constructed.

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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Mewzard » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:19 pm

Not sure how many people will agree...but honestly, I think Super has been amazing for Vegeta's character. I think he's been at his best in recent months/years.

Though I can't deny, Vegeta had a lot going for him as a villain (both primary in Saiyan and secondary in Namek for a time before he formally joined forces with the heroes).
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 pm

Absolutely. Vegeta was at his best in this villain days.

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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by The gr » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Absolutely, Vegeta was far more entertaining and more of a strategist in Namek, something that post namek and modern dragon rarely explore upon.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:35 pm

It's probably my second favorite portrayal of the guy.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by MajinMan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:47 am

Ranking Vegeta throughout his eras, I’d go:

1. Saiyan/Namek
2. Buu
3. GT
4. First half of Super
5. Cell
6. ToP

1. I feel Vegeta was at his best as a villain, especially in the Namek arc. He’s so brutal and disgusting that it makes for great entertainment. His best meltdowns are also in these two arcs.

2. Buu Arc Vegeta was a great ending point for him. His development in this arc is some of Dragon Ball’s best, and it beautifully caps off his personal story arc.

3. GT Vegeta is really underrated. I feel that GT Vegeta is a much more natural progression of Vegeta compared to Super’s Vegeta. He’s still a family man, but doesn’t have the obsession of surpassing Goku like he does in Super. He trains to improve himself.

4. Early Super Vegeta is good too. Super did kind of undo the number 1 speech to an extent, but it doesn’t really hinder the story. Vegeta showcases his development that he got in the Buu arc, and even gets new development when he becomes Cabba’s mentor. And in the Future Trunks arc, he fights for Trunks and his future, not for himself. He’s also proud that Trunks is such a good person to the point where he smiles when he sees him playing with the orphans.

5. Cell arc Vegeta is weird because he’s necessary for his character development, but at the same time is really annoying. He’s incredibly cocky, but he always gets his ass kicked. Those two don’t really mesh well, and when it happens like 3 times in the same arc, it can get really annoying.

6. ToP Vegeta is a literal shell of himself. I am incredibly disappointed with how he has been written for a majority of this arc. He has the same cockiness that he had in the Cell arc, but the writers keep trying to push his Cabba motivation nonstop with his cocky personality. They have repeated the same “pride/Cabba” speech like 3 times already in the span of 6 episodes. Just why? Why do we need to be constantly reminded of how he wants to fight to revive Cabba and how his pride is unbreakable? How many times do we need to see that? He’s so predictable now, and not in a good way at all.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Forte224 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:35 am

I really like him in the Namek arc, not as much in the Saiyan arc. I just don't really like him as a main villain. A side-villain/anti-hero/nemesis type that keeps showing up at just the wrong (and sometimes right) times for Freeza's side and Gohan's side was really cool. He was calm, collected, and picked his battles intelligently. Had he known about Zarbon's hidden form, he probably wouldn't have even engaged him until later. Anyway, he was really well done in that arc I thought.

That said, I love him in the Boo arc as well as Super. Though sometimes in Super he gets a tad annoying, like his speeches about Cabba, overall he has finally been given some love. Cell arc is by far the most flawed Vegeta has ever been, but I guess he did surpass the entire cast in strength twice and was having some serious Goku issues so his ego was all over the place. All of his annoyances in that arc were redeemed for me when he helped Gohan defeat Cell with that ki blast. Anyway, the Namek arc is close but it's too close for me to say for sure.

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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:02 am

What's wrong with Vegeta as a main villain?
Had he known about Zarbon's hidden form, he probably wouldn't have even engaged him until later.
Didn't stop him from egging on Freeza even though he knew about his transformations.
his ego was all over the place.
How was it all over the place? He's arrogant and wants people to know he's the best. He acts no different than he did in previous arcs. When he's in control, he boasts. When he's in over his head, he doesn't take it well. That's not all over the place. That's textbook arrogance which comes from insecurity.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by The Patrolman » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:44 am

MajinMan wrote:
6. ToP Vegeta is a literal shell of himself. I am incredibly disappointed with how he has been written for a majority of this arc. He has the same cockiness that he had in the Cell arc, but the writers keep trying to push his Cabba motivation nonstop with his cocky personality. They have repeated the same “pride/Cabba” speech like 3 times already in the span of 6 episodes. Just why? Why do we need to be constantly reminded of how he wants to fight to revive Cabba and how his pride is unbreakable? How many times do we need to see that? He’s so predictable now, and not in a good way at all.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Michsi » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:12 am

Vegeta in the Saiyan arc is in many ways just your typical DB villain: cool, confident, cruel, but has a conniption fit once he no longer has the upper hand. The Namek arc, however, uses him in the most interesting way. He is cunning, resourceful, and knows his limits for the most part. It's not necessarily his villainy that made him interesting in the Namek arc, as he is technically not a good guy in the Cell arc either, but that he just seemed smarter. Not for the whole thing though; he woefully overestimated himself at the end, and I feel like that kinda set in place the direction his character would go for the rest of DB.

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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:27 am

Personality wise, he doesn't break ground, but the quality of the fights and his sheer toughness makes for an interesting villain. It's also true in the entire Freeza arc that when Vegeta loses the upperhand, he loses it. Vegeta constantly overestimates his abilities. Remember when he egged on Zarbon?
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:36 pm

Yea, he's pretty damn great in both. Honestly I think he makes early namek, he's just amazing in it. Cell arc Vegeta is dumb as hell, and Boo saga is fine, but I've always felt like Majin Vegeta was kinda lame
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by Forte224 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:29 am

ABED wrote:What's wrong with Vegeta as a main villain?
I find him a dull villain, I guess. He's just a really strong guy that claims to be really bad. Freeza was a much more interesting villain due to how brutal he was to people. Of course it didn't help that Freeza had tons of Nameks to use as cannon fodder when all Vegeta had to beat up on were characters like Gohan that the show wasn't going to kill, yet. Anyway, Vegeta didn't really do anything to make him interesting, outside of tanking a genki dama and surviving. But that doesn't make a good villain. I don't think he's a bad villain, just not a very interesting one. Maybe it didn't help that I started the show after the crew was already on Namek so my original views on Vegeta started there. Going back and seeing him as a villain, already knowing the basic outcome probably didn't help my outlook.
ABED wrote:
Had he known about Zarbon's hidden form, he probably wouldn't have even engaged him until later.
Didn't stop him from egging on Freeza even though he knew about his transformations.
At that point he legitimately thought he was becoming a Super Saiyan. Which in his mind was this invincible warrior.
ABED wrote:
his ego was all over the place.
How was it all over the place? He's arrogant and wants people to know he's the best. He acts no different than he did in previous arcs. When he's in control, he boasts. When he's in over his head, he doesn't take it well. That's not all over the place. That's textbook arrogance which comes from insecurity.
I mean one second he's upset about Goku being a Super Saiyan and not him, the prince. Then another Super Saiyan comes into the picture and he still can't do it. Then he becomes a Super Saiyan and is stated by Piccolo to have surpassed even Goku. Then he gets whooped by 18. Then he trains and becomes the strongest again. Then Cell achieves perfection and whoops him. Then Goku emerges from the RoSaT in the same duration of time he had trained in it (mabye even less?) and is stronger than him again. As soon as he's on top again he gets bested, like, immediately. It's this cycle that he seems to go through and it would be pretty maddening probably. I think you assumed I meant something else by that though.

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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by kemuri07 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:36 am

he says with a vegeta gif as his profile pic.

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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:22 am

Namek saga Vegeta was far more interesting than his Cell saga version imo.
But my favourite Vegeta would be the one from late Buu saga and GT.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:16 am

At that point he legitimately thought he was becoming a Super Saiyan. Which in his mind was this invincible warrior.
And when he egged on Zarbon, he thought he was legitimately stronger. And I was referring to when Vegeta goaded Freeza into transforming from his first to his second form. Vegeta is arrogant and is desperate to prove he's the strongest. He wasn't confident, he was deluded into believing himself to be a Super Saiyan. Had he known about Zarbon's transformation he still would've taunted him because that's who he is.
Vegeta didn't really do anything to make him interesting, outside of tanking a genki dama and surviving. But that doesn't make a good villain
He didn't tank the Genki Dama. He took it and survived. I find someone who can take a ton of punishment more interesting than just tanking something. It's not just that blast. He takes the best everyone has to offer him and he keeps going. It takes a monster landing on him in a severly weakened state to finally end things. Vegeta is just as brutal as Freeza. And despite having spent probably his whole life around Nappa, the second Nappa proves useless, he kills him without a second thought. How is all that not interesting?
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:42 am

After the Freeza arc Toei/Toriyama made Vegeta way too soft, kind and gentle and from there he was no longer that badass, evil, elitist character he once was. If the Saiyan-Freeza arc Vegeta had been used for the entire of Z series then we'd perhaps have gotten a different Majin Boo ending.

The original Vegeta would've never said "You're number one, Kakarotto." or whatever it was.
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Re: Was Vegeta at his best during the Saiyan and Namek arcs?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:00 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:After the Freeza arc Toei/Toriyama made Vegeta way too soft, kind and gentle and from there he was no longer that badass, evil, elitist character he once was. If the Saiyan-Freeza arc Vegeta had been used for the entire of Z series then we'd perhaps have gotten a different Majin Boo ending.

The original Vegeta would've never said "You're number one, Kakarotto." or whatever it was.
He wouldn't, but that's character development. The question is whether you buy it from Vegeta.
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