Why isn't Dragon Ball acknowledged more for its social commentary?

[DBZAOTA482]

For a deceptively simple story, it says some real shit about society.

Commercialization of Competitive shorts

Back in the original Dragon Ball, the Tenkaichi Budokai was a competition that had fighters from across the world to see who's the strongest under the heavens. Originally it was more of an underground scene that attended out of tradition and love for the sport so you had to fighters perform many extraordinary feats but after it was rebuilt many years later, the level of competition was reduced to regular humans and the contestants weren't real martial artists but rather celebrities. The general public had forgotten all about Piccolo Daimao and Muten Roshi's legacy plus Mr. Satan, the reigning world martial arts champion, convinced them that all those incredible feats were mere tricks. It makes the mass look like total idiots but that's how people really are- people fear and hate what they don't understand so they have no choice but to believe the champ's lies.

Despite this, Goku and co. allow Mr. Satan to take credit for their hard work because they don't want fame. They just wanna live their lives.

Slavery & Racism

This one is an obvious subject. Various articles, blogs, and videos have drawn comparisons to the persecution of the Saiyans to the persecution of black people. Saiyans were seen as a race that is "violent" and "barbaric" on a planet that is "violent" and "barbaric". Being the pride of his people, Vegeta made sure to carry out his job as efficiently as possible even to the point of alienating his fellow Saiyans but even though he's a cut above the rest, he's still a "Saiyan Monkey" so Freeza took every opportunity to demean and belittle him (shown clearly when they fought). The most tragic part is that Saiyans have been subjected to the role of planet brokers for so long that they've embraced it as part of their culture and it didn't start with the Planet Trade Organization. They were also oppressed by the Tuffles till they retaliated and took over their land.

Thankfully Goku, who originally rejected his heritage and was considered an outcast by the race, later took pride in being Saiyan after learning of their pain.

Child Soldier

One that people wouldn't quite expect to be here. We have Gohan who was involved in the Z-Warriors' fighting business since he was 5 so clearly he had to deal with a lot of shit kids his age wouldn't even think of facing. When people think of Gohan they tend to think of the badass SSJ2 Gohan that smoked Cell but what about the real Gohan- the peace-loving, mild-mannered rice boy?

His uncle turned out to be a vicious space pirate, his father died trying to save him, saw the Z-Warriors being killed off one-by-one, and he himself nearly died multiple times forcing him to grow up early. It's clear all the war shit scarred him in more than one way (*cough*gtsaiyaman*cough*) but he joins in because he feels obligated to it. Even though he gets stronger with time, he is still just a boy throughout most of the series which came to a head during the Cell Games where Piccolo calls Goku out for pitting Gohan against Cell without preparation and reminds that even though he's got the powers, he's still a child. Even though he has more potential than virtually every fighter in the series, his lack of fighting spirit keeps him from keeping with his training showing altruism can only get you so far.

Fans (and sometimes even the anime) tend to write Chi-Chi as nothing more than a nagging shrew who won't the heroes have fun or do as they need to (which... is partly Toriyama's fault) and even blame for Gohan being 'weak' but all things considered it's easy to see why she wants her kids (namely Gohan) to have as little involvement in the fighting business as possible. It's not like she's a stranger to the danger either...

The End.

[sintzu]

Geekdom's arc breakdowns also go into the themes of the show and what Toriyama may have been trying to say to the readers, something that's completely changed my view on the franchise. If anyone says it's just about fighting I'll show them those videos.

I think the reason not many people acknowledge these topics is because of the huge sterotype the franchise is known for, just strong guys punching each other. Even Super for all its faults has a lot of commentary as well.

[Zephyr]

I think most of these are really incidental, and not what Toriyama had in mind. That's not to say that they're thus invalid ways to read the work, but I think that's a large reason why they're not as thoroughly acknowledged.

That said, I think one of the major bits of thematic social commentary the series could arguably lend itself to is the idea of redemption. A lot of really evil guys end up on paths, of varying pace, toward reintegration into civil society and the acquisition of a well-aimed moral compass. Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Vegeta are the bigguns. Of course, they're still martial artists, so these things are always, if at all present, always in the background, but they all go through the journey in some way. It serves to elucidate, if sought by the reader, that people can change, and that, for the most part, nobody is ever really completely gone. It's a poignant message that the real world could greatly benefit from understanding and appreciating. This inadvertently has a lot to say on the topic of criminal rehabilitation, and a high-strung social/political climate of tribalism and perpetually-pointed fingers and moral condemnation would certainly benefit greatly from this kind of insight.

Even still, though, the series doesn't dwell on this or make it a major point. It's certainly not among the major tent-pole reasons to sing its praises, which have more to do with being an extension of Toriyama as an author and artists, and of Wuxia as a genre. The Funimation dub tried to make this more of a point, and it devalued the series' aforementioned more substantive artistic chops as a result.

[Commodore Krevin]

Well, in my case, if I genuinely believed DB was a show that said "real shit about society" I'd probably wouldn't have watched it. So I'm rather glad it doesn't.

That said is the Saiyan race "oppressed"? At least to a degree greater than any other planet in Freezia's empire? I mean they tended to be the ones oppressing everyone else whenever they got the chance. Starting with the Tuffles who they wiped out, then apparently had no qualms doing the same for other planets provided if the "price was right" and only seemed to chaff under Freezia's rule because they felt they should be the ones in charge rather than any moral objections to his business model.

[precita]

I thought this would be about Dragonball having other races.

Nam was Indian, Upa/Bora were Native Americans, all the people in early Dragonball seemed to be Middle Eastern especially in the Pilaf arc. Suno and her village in the Red Ribbon arc appeared to be Russians. Early Dragonball did a good job showing other races than Japanese/Asian/

[DBZAOTA482]

Well, in my case, if I genuinely believed DB was a show that said "real shit about society" I'd probably wouldn't have watched it. So I'm rather glad it doesn't.

That said is the Saiyan race "oppressed"? At least to a degree greater than any other planet in Freezia's empire? I mean they tended to be the ones oppressing everyone else whenever they got the chance. Starting with the Tuffles who they wiped out, then apparently had no qualms doing the same for other planets provided if the "price was right" and only seemed to chaff under Freezia's rule because they felt they should be the ones in charge rather than any moral objections to his business model.

Only Vegeta and his father had problems taking orders. The other Saiyans willingly followed Freeza's orders till his betrayal.

[SuperCyan2]

says some real shit about society

Dragon Ball is a kids Japanese cartoon, not a political statement. But you keep going there and CNN might do the same or even worse than you have.

Since you brought up racism, I guess this is more fitting to complain about than Dragon Ball's 'racism.'



This is from My Favorite Fairy Tales (an anime based series) and dubbed in English by Saban Entertainment.

By the way, Neon Genesis Evangelion has far more to say about society than Dragon Ball ever would but I don't care either way.

Upa/Bora were Native Americans

Well, native Indians.

[LightBing]

Does it need to be intentional for it to be social commentary? Because I don't believe Mr.Toriyama for one second intended to make any point or to give awareness to any of these or the many more you could dig up.

The best description is those disclaimers they put at the end of movies and series: "any resemblance to real events and people is purely coincidental".

Don't overthink Dragon Ball it's just for fun like the author said a bunch of times.

[Soppa Saia People]

I really doubt when toriyama was making it he was thinking about social commentary. He was making a dumb comedy manga about fighting, not some deep look at society. Not to say DB doesn't have social commentary, it's there if you like for it, but it's not it's purpose and mainly accidental.

[Kamiccolo9]

Does it need to be intentional for it to be social commentary? Because I don't believe Mr.Toriyama for one second intended to make any point or to give awareness to any of these or the many more you could dig up.

No, intent is not necessary. Upton Sinclair's The Jungle is one of the best-known examples of unintentional social commentary. Another is Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

[ABED]

Does it need to be intentional for it to be social commentary? Because I don't believe Mr.Toriyama for one second intended to make any point or to give awareness to any of these or the many more you could dig up.

No, intent is not necessary. Upton Sinclair's The Jungle is one of the best-known examples of unintentional social commentary. Another is Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

How were either of those books uninentional social commentary?

[VegettoEX]

Sinclair wanted to promote socialism, and instead wound up leading to food processing reform. Bradbury said a couple different things over time, but it's been used as a look on actual book burning, literature appreciation, general big brother government overstepping boundaries, general dystopian future outlook, etc.

I'm in the same camp as believing that Toriyama is basically (if not actually wholly) incapable of purposefully and thoughtfully writing social commentary into his works. Considering the numerous examples of him specifically saying he tries to keep things simple and plain, I'd say he backs himself up on that.

I don't think any of the examples in the initial post here even remotely tackle what the poster says they do; they are surface-level plot points that say nothing about themselves within the content.

That's not to say that Toriyama did not unintentionally introduce social commentary into his works... or rather, I'd argue that some of the things he wrote and drew were reflections of his society and its accepted viewpoints of that time (see specifically: education-minded mother and Sambo), and only then in reflection can be used to have conversations about these societal reflections.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Jungle was never meant to be an expose on the meatpacking industry, yet that's what it ended up being. Ray Bradbury did not intend on Fahrenheit 451 being about government censorship or McCarthyism, yet that's what it is known for today.

[Doctor.]

Ray Bradbury did not intend on Fahrenheit 451 being about government censorship

He didn't? Not doubting you, just surprised, considering that's an immediate interpretation of the book.

[Kamiccolo9]

Ray Bradbury did not intend on Fahrenheit 451 being about government censorship

He didn't? Not doubting you, just surprised, considering that's an immediate interpretation of the book.

No, he insisted that everybody got it wrong, and that it was about how television is dumbing down society.

[Doctor.]

Ray Bradbury did not intend on Fahrenheit 451 being about government censorship

He didn't? Not doubting you, just surprised, considering that's an immediate interpretation of the book.

No, he insisted that everybody got it wrong, and that it was about how television is dumbing down society.

You've got a source on this? I'd like to read more about it.

[Kamiccolo9]

You've got a source on this? I'd like to read more about it.

http://www.laweekly.com/news/ray-bradbu ... ed-2149125

First one I found. Probably shouldn't keep this going, though. We're kinda off topic.

[ABED]

The Jungle was never meant to be an expose on the meatpacking industry, yet that's what it ended up being. Ray Bradbury did not intend on Fahrenheit 451 being about government censorship or McCarthyism, yet that's what it is known for today.

No, but it was meant to get people to lean towards socialism. I think you mean that there's specific inferences the writers didn't intend, but the novels you mention are in fact meant to have social commentary. The last few chapters of The Jungle read less like a novel and more like a pamphlet.

I agree with Mike on this issue, if there's any social commentary, it's not Toriyama's intent.

[OmegaRockman]

While I largely agree that Toriyama isn't really the type of author to consciously put deeper, socially relevant themes in his work, I wouldn't say that DB is completely devoid of it. In particular, there's a bit of class commentary during the Freeza arc. Toriyama said in this interview that Freeza was based on the land sharks during Japan's economic bubble during the '80s. It's easy to see what he was going for there. After all, Freeza's planet trade empire is basically a scaled-up version of the real estate issue that was going on in Japan at the time. This idea is further supported by the fact that Freeza is more or less a space-ified version of the wuxia tyrant character type, as Kunzait mentions in his wuxia thread. Here are a couple relevant quotes of his (look on page 3):

Freeza fits every classic Wuxia tyrant/despot stereotype... in spaaaaaaaaaaaace! Doesn't get more early 90s for Wuxia than that now does it?

Seemingly sci fi villains such as space emperor Freeza aren't sci fi villains at all: they are merely classic Wuxia villains reskinned over with surface-level sci fi flourishes, as was the late 80s/early 90s trend across Wuxia.

Also, on the page 1 Kunzait mentions this:

Warlords are as stock a villain-type as it gets in Wuxia, and come in a dizzying array of variants, shapes, and sizes. They can be grand rulers of a vast, powerful kingdom (or kingdoms), or petty tyrants making their way conquering smaller villages and bullying the weaker townships.

Sounds to me like Freeza's land-sharking is nothing less than a modern reinterpretation of a classic wuxia storyline, utilized to make (admittedly simple) commentary on Japan's socioeconomic climate at the time.

In fact, I would say that Freeza's economic power is symbolized through his physical strength - he "buys up" the planets for his enterprise through brute force. Much like how an average Joe couldn't compete with the capital of the land speculators, nobody can resist the might of Freeza and his army.

Actually, the elitist attitude that Freeza and his army has toward those with lower battle powers can be seen as analogous to elitist attitudes towards the poor for not having deep enough pockets. Strength of character is ignored in favor of having a bigger number (or more capital) than the other guy. That attitude leads to Freeza underestimating the Earthlings, ultimately resulting in his downfall.

Also could Freeza's fear of the Saiyans banding together against him be akin to corporate resistance to workers' unions? He sees that the Saiyans have risen from working poor to middle class. Bardock's 10,000 raises concerns, doesn't it? That's when he decides that an uprising could be a problem, so he destroys planet Vegeta before it becomes an issue. Is this not similar to corporate lobbying against unions?

Also, Freeza never trained a day in his life, right? He was born with his power. This is parallel to the reality that the majority of rich people inherit their wealth instead of earning it.

Then you have Goku, who is working class. He achieves his power through training much like how the working class earns their living through labor. However, no matter how hard he trains, he can't compete with the limitless power that Freeza was born with. But then Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan, attaining the same power as Freeza. THE PROLETARIAT HAS SEIZED THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION FROM THE BOURGEOISIE, BRINGING FORTH A MARXIST REVOL-

Okay, I think I'm WAAAY too far down the rabbit hole now. I'm gonna stop. I still think the land shark stuff is solid, though.

[8000 Saiyan]

Dragon Ball isn't really one of those series that's meant to be deep and I doubt Toriyama created it for social commentary reasons.