Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

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Desassina
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Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Desassina » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:17 am

I see this question asked many times: in which order should I watch Dragon Ball? Most replies attempt to cut its content with regards to canon, but few are the ones that create a viewing order, so that people can discern the look and feel of a time period. In case someone wanted to get a taste of the 80/90s, for example, I would recommend this:
  • DB Manga
    • DB Anime
      • DB Movies 1, 2 & 3
    • Dragon Ball Z
      • DBZ Movies 1-13 & TV Specials
      • Dragon Ball GT
        • 10th Anniversary Movie & A Hero's Legacy
And if someone asked me to cut the content based on what is the most current depiction of Dragon Ball in terms of releases, refreshed broadcast and revival, then the order would be like this:
  • DB Manga
    • DB Kai
    • Battle of Gods & Resurrection of F
      • DB Super
        • DBS Manga
I'm pretty sure that a few movies are missing, as well as the newest manga works, but that's where you can help me in any way that you want to (making lists is tedious :P). I created lists so that you can only witness their content after you go through a specific item to depict the viewing order.

Edit: I've changed the 90s to include the 80s due to a nitpick. Thanks!
Last edited by Desassina on Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by sintzu » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:45 am

I mostly agree with this. If someone wanted to get into the franchise or just watch one part of it I'd recommend Kai as I think it's the best part and it can standalone from everything else so someone who doesn't have the time to get into everything can watch it and still get a complete experience out of it.

I'd also throw in Z's 2 TV specials as they are very important to the plot (one goes into Bardock's flashbacks while the other into Trunks' past)
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Zephyr » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:46 am

Desassina wrote:In case someone wanted to get a taste of the 90s, for example, I would recommend this:
  • DB Manga
    • DB Anime
      • DB Movies 1, 2 & 3
    • Dragon Ball Z
      • DBZ Movies 1-13 & TV Specials
      • Dragon Ball GT
        • 10th Anniversary Movie & A Hero's Legacy
Why would you include four movies from the 80's in a "get a taste for the 90's" list?

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Desassina » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:48 am

Nice nitpick. I guess that I could change it. It's partially due to me having witnessed them in Europe in the 90s. It's not for everyone.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:24 pm

Zephyr wrote:Why would you include four movies from the 80's in a "get a taste for the 90's" list?
Dragon Ball itself also technically wrapped up and switched to Z well before 1989 came to a close. I think he was going for a more nostalgic route; as ehh as GT is, it is enjoyable now simply because it isn't a 2010s anime and thus has a completely different feel due to how the anime industry has changed in the intervening years.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:32 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Zephyr wrote:Why would you include four movies from the 80's in a "get a taste for the 90's" list?
Dragon Ball itself also technically wrapped up and switched to Z well before 1989 came to a close. I think he was going for a more nostalgic route; as ehh as GT is, it is enjoyable now simply because it isn't a 2010s anime and thus has a completely different feel due to how the anime industry has changed in the intervening years.
That is definitely the truth. GT is so 90s it hurts.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:43 pm

For me, entertainment order (at least with things that have anything resembling a 'canon', or at least just a 'this story takes place at this point in time' kind of order to them) tends to be in whatever order they take place in terms of the story. I know a lot of people tend to prefer to view things in the order they came out - and there are some franchises where I do that - but most of the time, I like to just get the timeline in order as much as I can. Within reason, anyway - I'm not likely to pop out a disc that has like one more episode on it just to pop in another one to watch in that level of order, at least not usually.

So just for a shorter example, with Star Wars movies, I'm the kind that would watch the prequels (Episodes I-III) before watching the original trilogy (IV-VI), and then moving on to the newer ones. That of course gets muddier with the Story films coming out now that take place at different points in time, where you have to slide them in place, like so, for my preferred kind of viewing order.

[spoiler]Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace
Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones
Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Solo: A Star Wars Story
Rouge One: A Star Wars Story
Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope
Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens
Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

I'm guessing on 'Solo' since it's not out yet, but based on Rouge One leading like...RIGHT into the original film, Han would be the age we saw him in the original in that one, so him being much younger means it has to be before Rouge One. Seems like a safe assumption to me anyway.[/spoiler]

So yeah, basically like that. For Dragon Ball itself, which has movies that don't fit into the main narrative at all, I tend to just slot them kinda sorta where they'd go...with the exception of the three DB movies and the 10th anniversary film, since they're flat-out re-tellings. For those I just kinda let them space out a bit. So, it'd end up looking like this for my preferred viewing order. This is all basically based around the anime too, and sans Kai, as the manga itself is it's own thing where I'd just read it all in order without interruption (with Jaco just either before or after it in entirety), and Kai I basically just watch on it's own whenever I'm wanting to experience the newer dub.

[spoiler]Dragon Ball Z: Bardock: The Father of Goku
Dragon Ball: Episode of Bardock

Dragon Ball
- Dragon Ball Arc
- Dragon Ball: Curse of the Blood Rubies
- 21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
- Dragon Ball: Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle
- Red Ribbon Army Arc
- Fortune Teller Baba Arc
- 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
- Dragon Ball: Mystical Adventure
- King Piccolo Arc
- 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
- Dragon Ball: The Path to Power

Dragon Ball Z
- Saiyan Arc
- Dragon Ball Z: Dead Zone
- Dragon Ball Z: The World's Strongest
- Dragon Ball Z: Tree of Might
- Namek Arc
- Dragon Ball Z: Lord Slug
- Garlic Jr. Arc
- Androids Arc (Trunks arrival episodes)
- Dragon Ball Z: The History of Trunks
- Dragon Ball Z: Cooler's Revenge
- Androids Arc (All the rest, up until the Cell Games are about to start)
- Dragon Ball Z: The Return of Cooler
- Dragon Ball Z: Super Android 13
- Dragon Ball Z: Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan
- Dragon Ball Z: The Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans/The Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans
- Androids Arc (The Cell Games)
- Dragon Ball Z: Bojack Unbound
- Majin Boo Arc (Afterlife Tournament and Great Saiyaman material)
- Dragon Ball Z: Broly: Second Coming
- Dragon Ball Z: Bio-Broly
- Majin Boo Arc (the rest of the series, up until just before the time-skip)
- Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn
- Dragon Ball Z: Wrath of the Dragon
- Dragon Ball: Goku and Friends Return

Dragon Ball Super
- Battle of Gods Arc/Battle of Gods (the movie)
- Resurrection 'F' Arc/Resurrection 'F' (the movie)
- Universe 6 Arc
- Future Trunks Arc
- Time Pass Arc
- Universe Survival Arc

(Now at this point, depending on how Super ends, it would either be just watch the rest of Super, OR, if it ends up retelling the end of Z, then...I'unno. I guess I'd have watched the End of Z timeskip stuff already back with Z instead of leaving it hanging, and then just watch it again here in Super. No other way to do it other than picking one or the other.)

Dragon Ball GT
- Black Star Dragon Ball Arc
- Baby Arc
- Super 17 Arc
- Shadow Dragons Arc
- Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy[/spoiler]

That's all for the 'storied' stuff anyway. For the completely off in it's own world stuff like...I dunno, the two DB Safety videos, the live action films, etc., they'd just go wherever essentially. Again, my main goal usually is just to get as cohesive of a narrative as can be feasibly done in regards to the story, not necessarily in regards to when things came out. It's just my own personal preference.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:48 pm

My order is similar to Gyt Kaliba's, but with a few differences. For one, I watch DB movie 3 right before the 22nd TB because I think it works better tonally to go from the 22nd TB into the Piccolo Daimao arc. And because GT: Season 2's final disc has the last 4 episodes and the TV special, I watch through episode 64 right before the time jump, TV special, and then the final few minutes of the series.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Desassina » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:52 pm

And that is welcome. Chronological order isn't a selective process that rules out entertainment that actually exists. It's only a rearrangement of how and when to experience it. My focus was to drift away from canon, which pertains to continuity and the accepted works of an author, interfering with one's recommendation of things that we, as fans, often entitle ourselves with by using it as a derogative term. Entertainment and/or documentation is within our reach and that's what we should focus on.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Ringworm128 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:26 pm

Just watch all of it. Why go to all the trouble of planning some super thought out way of watching the show instead of just jumping straight in and enjoying what the franchise has to offer?

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:29 pm

ringworm128 wrote:Just watch all of it. Why go to all the trouble of planning some super thought out way of watching the show instead of just jumping straight in and enjoying what the franchise has to offer?
Because there's a lot to "all of it". Do you go for Z or Kai? GT or Super? What if you're not interested in watching the movies? Do you have no attachment to the original Dragon Ball anime? What about just manga? Or if you want to stick to Toriyama's direct involvement? So many variables!

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Shaddy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:04 pm

The problem with trying to get a consistent working viewing order is that it's the antithesis to the way the series has been released in the west, as well as the standards of western television, in a lot of ways. Dragon Ball got popular in the west with Z, so anyone looking to get into the series is probably doing so because of Z, so even though the best way to get a completely uninitiated or clueless viewer would be to start from the beginning and go to the end, nearly everyone who's heard of the show will have a pre-conceived idea of what it'll be like, even though it won't turn into the thing that inspired it for 150 episodes. Beyond that, there's multiple versions of every show, through either different cuts or dubs, and there's no good way of knowing who might prefer what when you're just writing something on the internet. Lastly, the way Dragon Ball moves and flows at times is so different from what can be expected of western TV that watching the wrong version or even the right version can be a bit of a shock. In honesty, I cannot stand the slow pacing of almost any Dragon Ball show. That might sound weird since I am a fan, but the original DB, Z, and even Kai or Super can still be too slow for me. Maybe it's because I've watched stuff like FMA brotherhood, that can at times adapt 4 forty-page chapters into an episode, but it's an effort just to get through an arc a lot of the time, and I feel like any new watchers could potentially be subjected to it too, because such things simply don't happen in western TV. No episode of any show is going to feature fifteen minutes of characters standing around talking about how they're going to start fighting, and it makes it agonizing if you're not used to that stuff.

So with that, as weird as it sounds, I'd say the best way of experiencing the series' story is the shortest way possible, even if it's not official. Iamthemilkman's Dragon Ball Recut, DB Kai, then BoG, RoF, and starting at episode 28 of Super would be the way I'd recommend, just because it's the only way to get the animated version of Toriyama's story in less than 150 fucking hours.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Desassina » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:09 pm

You don't need to carefully plan your viewings, but you can reflect on them, as I did with the different sessions that I had, to leave a plan ready for those who want to pick it up, so that they don't have to waste that much time. The ideal scenario would be to go from one end to another, but remember that going through it was easier then, when new episodes were the next big thing, instead of now that you can miss new content, in case you find that it's not interesting in between. Or maybe one should stop and not force himself to do it in case they're not enjoying it.

Edit: by the way, this post was for the last three above me.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:18 pm

ringworm128 wrote:Just watch all of it. Why go to all the trouble of planning some super thought out way of watching the show instead of just jumping straight in and enjoying what the franchise has to offer?
It can be fun to figure out the most enjoyable way to watch something, though admittedly due to DB's sheer size, that can be easier said than done. With Star Wars or the MCU it can be much easier given that even 20 movies is much easier to try different orders to see what way is the most enjoyable. DB is 600+ episodes. That's without the movies.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:28 pm

I've always thought there are two main ways of watching Dragon Ball...

For dub fans, it's Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Kai, and Dragon Ball Super. There's only one in-print release to worry about for any of them, all of which are perfectly valid, the dubs were produced in order, and the only one from the pre-2009 era is DB, which was actually not a bad dub. This also catches you up to current TV airings, which is a plus.

For sub fans, it's Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT, plus the relevant TV specials, and the first Z movie. The Japanese actors all gave their best performances in this original run, and basically taking this route gives you the full 11-year TV run the franchise originally had; this is what Dragon Ball is and was, and everything that's ever happened since was spawned from this. Watching this whole run this way will give you a crash course in everything the Dragon Ball anime is and was in its purest form.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:31 pm

Robo4900 wrote:For dub fans, it's Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Kai, and Dragon Ball Super. There's only one in-print release to worry about for any of them, all of which are perfectly valid, the dubs were produced in order, and the only one from the pre-2009 era is DB, which was actually not a bad dub. This also catches you up to current TV airings, which is a plus.

For sub fans, it's Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT, plus the relevant TV specials, and the first movie. The Japanese actors all gave their best performances in this original run, and basically taking this route gives you the full 11-year TV run the franchise originally had; this is what Dragon Ball is and was, and everything that's ever happened since was spawned from this. Watching this whole run this way will give you a crash course in everything the Dragon Ball anime is and was in its purest form.
I don't think there's any debating this, with the possible exception of throwing in BoG and RoF, and Super at the end of the second one.

As for the manga, personally I'd argue that Japanese-readers should go for the Full Color Editions as they are IMO the best possible presentation of the original manga run. Shame that I can't make the same recommendation for the US outside of the Saiyan and Frieza arcs.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:35 pm

KBABZ wrote:I don't think there's any debating this, with the possible exception of throwing in BoG and RoF, and Super at the end of the second one.
Nah; BOG, RF, and Super exist in an odd bubble separate from the original 11 years of anime.
Once someone's done with Dragon Ball, Z, GT, the specials, and Z movie 1, they'll have a good grasp of Dragon Ball, and they'll have a complete appreciation of the original story. If they want to catch up to the modern run, they can discover that for themselves at that point.
KBABZ wrote:As for the manga, personally I'd argue that Japanese-readers should go for the Full Color Editions as they are IMO the best possible presentation of the original manga run. Shame that I can't make the same recommendation for the US outside of the Saiyan and Frieza arcs.
Japanese readers are probably best off with either Kanzenban or Full Colour. Though the pre-Saiyan material in Full Colour is only available digitally, so if you want it in print, Kanzenban is the way to go.

For English reading, we'll have to see how it turns out when the English Full Colours finish their run in approximately 10 years.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by Desassina » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:37 pm

That's interesting. Fortunately, I always had the chance to experience something that was close to my understanding of the franchise with the original music, because I believe that music makes or breaks the show more so than dialogue (in Dragon Ball). The dub was from Portugal, so I didn't have to think about the US, and that's why the dub approach was a nice one. Eventually, I switched over to the Brazilian one, which kept the music with more faithful dialogue, and I was set with something that I didn't have to read, in spite of considering myself lucky to have experienced it in Europe.

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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by sintzu » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 pm

Shaddy wrote:I'd say the best way of experiencing the series' story is the shortest way possible, even if it's not official. Iamthemilkman's Dragon Ball Recut, DB Kai, then BoG, RoF, and starting at episode 28 of Super would be the way I'd recommend, just because it's the only way to get the animated version of Toriyama's story in less than 150 fucking hours.
DB's episodes without the filler is 133 which I don't think is a lot. The problem isn't really the shows themselves but rather trying to get someone who isn't into those long 500+ shows to get into the entire franchise which is why I'd recommend Kai from the start as it's not crazy long, it's the most popular of the bunch and to me at least, the best part of the franchise. By doing that you're not asking them to invest in everything so if they decide not to continue they'll still get a somewhat complete experience out of it.
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Re: Something superior to arguing canon: entertainment order.

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:32 am

sintzu wrote:DB's episodes without the filler is 133 which I don't think is a lot. The problem isn't really the shows themselves but rather trying to get someone who isn't into those long 500+ shows to get into the entire franchise which is why I'd recommend Kai from the start as it's not crazy long, it's the most popular of the bunch and to me at least, the best part of the franchise. By doing that you're not asking them to invest in everything so if they decide not to continue they'll still get a somewhat complete experience out of it.
And for as much as I urge anybody first getting in to start with OG DB, at least Kai starts off with a recap of that story so you have an idea that some important stuff happened before Raditz showed up, unlike Z when it debuted in the US (Krillin, Bulma and Roshi reminiscing helps a lot too).

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