Home Release Date Inconsistencies

[Lunaar]

Below is a post of mine that originally appeared on page 206 of the "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread. In light of it's unrelated points of discussion, I have brought the topic here for discussion, along with minor edits for clarity, additional links and fluff.

No DBS Part 4 for May. Guess there isn't a set release schedule.

Back in the day, didn't Z release FASTER than Cartoon Network's airings? Why is it reversed in 2018?

Seeing this claim made me go check a wikipedia source (spoilers: bad idea) for the VHS tape release dates of the "Season 3" dub episodes and attempt to compare them to the Toonami air dates. As someone that regularly kept up with the show during this period, I can confirm that the dates given for Toonami airings are correct. However... to my knowledge, some of the release dates provided for the VHS products do not align with reviews/accounts of viewers, of which date all the way back to the Spring/Summer of '99.

Not to mention: I have personal experience! I watched the "Transformation - Edited" tape containing episodes 78-81 (Freeza's second form, infamous Krillin impalement, Piccolo arriving, etc.) as early as July or late as August that year. I held it in my tiny, 9-year-old hands and popped it into my VHS player. Before you ask - yes, the FUNimation release. This was my first experience with the new in-house dub cast from FUNimation, - so I definitely didn't just find some rando bootleg. If you wanna call BS, that's fine - I expect there to be documentation of these releases out there - but where?

What I should have done was fact check here on Kanzenshuu first, but not only does the Episode Guide provide just DVD release dates and no record of VHS (DVDs started churning out later than the initial VHS home releases, so they do not align with our first exposure to the new dub), the summary on the "Series" page lists the Ginyu Series release dates as June 20, 2000 - of which sounds accurate! However, upon clicking that series to check on the individual releases... they are listed as October 1, 2001. Okay, fair enough - these are most likely the DVD release dates and the previous page with Series summaries give the actual VHS release da- nnnnnnope. "Frieza" series release date: May 8, 2001 - December, 11 2001. That can't be right. They didn't wait for over a year to release the VHS. Those Fryza tapes were in every mall, in every Sam Goody, in every goddamned Suncoast - don't you dare look at me like I made those words up.

I double checked the references for both the vanilla and fandom wiki pages and sure enough - no references or links for any VHS release dates. While the vanilla wiki provides dates for only the boxed sets (dated as October 1, 2000), the fandom wiki appears to have appropriate dates for the Ginyu saga tapes (April 26, 1999), but then lists every "Frieza" tape release date as November 16, 1999. Just to make things even more confusing, the vanilla wiki page also lists the "Frieza" boxed set with two release dates: May 8, 2001 and December 11, 2001. Those two dates again! No other sets are listed with two dates and there is no reason nor reference provided for such an anomaly.

>TLDR; The wikis are not completely accurate in their documentation(shocker) and it's possible my memory of that sunset-bathed evening spent with the VHS tape has been implanted by aliens. That would be shitting on my accountability, but I'll take the facts over my own childhood memories. Either way, Kanzenshuu's documentation on North American home releases are currently not reliable, nor have I come across any legitimate record of their retail availability.

Does anybody have any proper info on this? I'm talkin' late 90's catalogs, brochures, receipts - anything? I'm triggered - I wanna get to the bottom of this. Thanks, mecha3000

[VegettoEX]

I'm a little confused by some of the things you're saying/asking, so just to clarify some stuff from my own perspective/knowledge:

"Freeza" VHS and DVD release dates are never going to align with each other. The season three VHS releases began coming out (1999) before FUNimation's uncut/bilingual DVD initiative for the series existed (2000). DVDs of the Freeza arc didn't come for quite some time (2001), did so very slowly one at a time, and by that point were so late in the overall release they started featuring things like animated menus that weren't in use on the earliest DVDs. Since Freeza was already out on VHS and they were attempting to do simultaneous VHS/DVD releases with some of the later material, they just prioritized accordingly and caught up on what didn't have a corresponding DVD whenever it fit their production schedule.

(The DVD release truly was that chaotic and out of order; Freeza and the end of the Cell arc was some of the last stuff that made it out on DVD. We didn't have Cell arc on DVD in 2003 in America OR Japan to be able to use for the "Doomrider" AMV project, for example.)

Yes, multiple Freeza tapes were out on VHS ahead of their Toonami airings. There were at least two Freeza tapes out in addition to the previous two Ginyu tapes ("The Summoning" and "Transformation") ahead of Toonami; they were our first listen at the new Piccolo voice, and I definitely purchased them ahead of Toonami having it. These four tapes are the only VHS releases of in-house dubbed Dragon Ball Z that I own, and it was only because it was a new product and that was where it was first available (not on TV).

(I may have a copy/paste error for the Ginyu DVD releases in the guide: I'll check into that. Would be hysterical if that's legitimately the only source that's been used and pasted incorrectly elsewhere across the internet... EDIT: Looks like Steve was reflecting on them in July, so the June date would be the accurate one.)

But yes, at certain points in time, the VHS release was indeed ahead of the Toonami broadcast. This was not ALWAYS the case, though; even in the Freeza arc, once we got beyond those initial tapes, with five episodes per week the TV broadcast eventually went beyond the VHS releases. This would happen over and over for the subsequent arcs, with sometimes things coming out on VHS ahead of time, and other times airing on TV first.

[thaman91]

I think what OP is saying is that everywhere on the internet, the Frieza VHS tapes are stated to have all come out on November 16, 1999. Even a thread started by Hujio has this date listed: viewtopic.php?t=11569

However, we know that this can't be true since VegettoEX and others remember purchasing some of these Frieza VHS tapes prior to November 16, 1999 and even prior to the start of season 3 in September 1999. So the question is: when exactly were these VHS tapes released? Why is there no record of their release other than the aforementioned "November 16, 1999" date?

[VegettoEX]

(Sorry, I keep editing within my timeframe here!)

Well, a scathing and super-embarrassing editorial I wrote on my website that I refuse to link here sharing some .wav files from it is dated June 1, 1999 sooooo... hope that helps!

And it looks like I made an update on May 19 sharing those voice clips originally. It looks like alt.fan.dragonball explodes around that time commenting on the tapes, so that's the right timeframe for sure. A post by Pikachoo May 20 says, "Funimation released the two new tapes that you can buy un-cut and censored they were released on the 15th." They reference an AnimeNation.com posting, but archive.org doesn't seem to actually have the correct page / site structure at that point in 1999 to double-check... but that sure sounds/seems about right.

OK, boom, here you go:

New Dragonball Z tapes announced, available uncut
posted on 1999-04-20 00:00 EDT

The long-awaited volumes 18 and 19 to the insanely popular Dragon Ball Z series have been announced by Funimation. These tapes, which for the first time will NOT be distributed by Pioneer (rather, by Funimation themselves), will be released on May 15, according to The Right Stuf, and will retail for $14.95 each.

Funimation has also decided to make available the complete, uncut versions of the episodes. While Cartoon Network lets them get away with a bit less censoring, there is still some that needs to be done. The uncut episodes will feature the dubbed version, untouched visually, and will retail for $19.95. Volumes 18 and 19 (dubbed "Assault" and "Double Cross" respectively) will be the first volumes to see an uncut release.

------------------------

OK, and this might also be some golden info you need (again, all wrapped up in super-embarrassing write-ups):

Next Dubbed Video Releases; Air Date for Third Season
The next two dubbed videos (which will make up dubbed episodes 67-72) will be released on 31 August 1999. Pre-orders will be taken for them on FUNimation's website. As for air dates concerning these episodes, FUNimation and Cartoon Network have officially announced that on 6 September 1999, from 4-5 pm EDT, the final two episodes of the second season will be aired, with a special hour from 5-6 pm EDT airing the first two episodes of the third season ("Ginyu Assault" and "Incredible Force!" -- episodes 54 and 55, respectively).

New Date For Third Season
That's right, children. Instead of the first two episodes of the third season being shown last Monday (6 Sept. 1999), the new date for their airing will be the 13th. The first half of the Toonani block will consist of the last two episodes of the third season (dub eps. #52-53), with the last half of the Toonami block consisting of the first two episodes of the third season (dub eps. #54-55). The new commercials make the episodes look so damn cool, too. Like I said, I'm really starting to feel bad for all the poor dubbies out there.

There's an earlier news archive page there that might have had more info but I don't actually have it saved...

[Lunaar]

Thank you for the prompt response! You're right to feel a little confused, my post is a bit muddy with lots of info dumpage. To clarify, the Ginyu/Frieza VHS release dates seem to be inaccurate on different guides with different variables in how the information is given; like the vanilla wiki only providing the boxed set release dates and the Home Release guide on Kanzenshuu only covering DVD release dates. I recognize that Kanzenshuu is primarily focused on content from Japan and understand that the VHS tape legacy is... not exactly of the utmost priority to add, but when Kanzenshuu doesn't have the answer and the other sources are... not really sources at all, where else can I go?

I was well aware of the DVD rerelease nonsense as it was happening, but the mention of the first "four" tapes you own coming out before the Toonami broadcast just made everything click for me and at the very least, satisfies my memory of watching "Transformation." I was under the impression that only the Ginyu tapes had been released together, with the following tapes spread out across the next few years. FUNimation seemed to be just figuring this stuff along the way, so a non-conventional release schedule in 1999 makes sense to me.

If I am to assume that Hujio's dates (link so graciously provided by thaman91, thanks for the quick reply!) are all accurate beyond the Frieza arc, then this provides closure for me - however, it should be noted that I went on a wild goose chase for information that should be readily available for western audiences that are eager to learn about some history. It's not even my preferred version of the show, not by a long shot! I was there when it happened, though, so I feel like digging up a message board post from 2009 shouldn't be the lengths I go to for obtaining this trivia.

My entire point to this topic was to shine light on general info that seems difficult to nail down and hopefully find someone that could provide answers - and you both did, very quickly! However, we still do not have a reference point for the releases of those first two Frieza tapes, nor confirmation on the November 16, 1999 date for each that followed.

Don't get me wrong, I trust the Hujio! ...but a little double-checking wouldn't hurt, when we know that there are (at least) two incorrectly listed dates from that year.

omgyousolvedeverything EDIT: VegettoEX, dammit, you work fast. That follow-up post was all the accountability I need. Thanks again. May 15, 1999 and August 31, 1999. Wowzers. Would this be a bad time to bring up how much we desperately need the Kanzenshuu wiki?

[VegettoEX]

Very happy to help, and I'm glad that our collective memories lined up with reality. I guess it's also nice that I knew the specific places and date ranges to look to verify things .

The helpful thing after that point in time in 1999 is that archive.org seems to have better records of sites like AnimeNation.com, so subsequent tape release dates might be a little easier to verify or obtain multiple sources/citations on.

[Lunaar]

The helpful thing after that point in time in 1999 is that archive.org seems to have better records of sites like AnimeNation.com, so subsequent tape release dates might be a little easier to verify or obtain multiple sources/citations on.

I'll keep that in mind for future researches. Thanks!

[thaman91]

Yes, thank you VegettoEX for digging up that information. So based on that Anime News Network post, Volumes 18 & 19 (the Ginyu tapes) were released on May 15, 1999. And according to VegettoEX's old post:

Next Dubbed Video Releases; Air Date for Third Season
The next two dubbed videos (which will make up dubbed episodes 67-72) will be released on 31 August 1999. Pre-orders will be taken for them on FUNimation's website. As for air dates concerning these episodes, FUNimation and Cartoon Network have officially announced that on 6 September 1999, from 4-5 pm EDT, the final two episodes of the second season will be aired, with a special hour from 5-6 pm EDT airing the first two episodes of the third season ("Ginyu Assault" and "Incredible Force!" -- episodes 54 and 55, respectively).

...August 31, 1999 was the release date for dubbed episodes 67-72, which would be Volumes 22 & 23 (Frieza tapes 3 & 4). So I guess I'm still wondering when Volumes 20 & 21 (Frieza tapes 1 & 2) were released. The earliest Amazon review for Volume 20 was August 4th, 1999 so based on that and Funimation's release patterns, I'd say that Volumes 20 & 21 were probably released together some time in July 1999. We just don't know the exact date (unless I missed it in one of your posts).

[Lunaar]

...August 31, 1999 was the release date for dubbed episodes 67-72, which would be Volumes 22 & 23 (Frieza tapes 3 & 4). So I guess I'm still wondering when Volumes 20 & 21 (Frieza tapes 1 & 2) were released. The earliest Amazon review for Volume 20 was August 4th, 1999 so based on that and Funimation's release patterns, I'd say that Volumes 20 & 21 were probably released together some time in July 1999. We just don't know the exact date (unless I missed it in one of your posts).

Oh. I missed those episode numbers lining up with the volumes, then! July 1999 is a safe bet, but some more digging will need to be done.

Just to make things even more confusing, the vanilla wiki page also lists the "Frieza" boxed set with two release dates: May 8, 2001 and December 11, 2001. Those two dates again! No other sets are listed with two dates and there is no reason nor reference provided for such an anomaly.

I'd like to take a moment to address this bit I mentioned earlier: these were most likely release dates for the edited and uncut versions of the VHS boxed sets, as I am just now finding out that the edited and uncut versions used different splash imagery on the tapes. Figured it was worth clearing up.

[thaman91]

So after looking at Funimation's official DBZ site from 1999 (via the Wayback Machine), it looks like Volumes 20 & 21 were available for pre-order on June 30, 1999 with an expected ship date of July 15, 1999 (Source: https://web.archive.org/web/19991002121 ... lz.com:80/)

The specific text mentioning this was not visible on my computer (probably due to some formatting being messed up in this archival version of the page) but examining the page source reveals the info. One entry says "6/30 - DBZ Episodes 61-66 are now available for purchase in our online store!" while another entry from earlier says "The next two videos, Frieza-The Summoning and Frieza-Transformation, will be available for pre-order at the end of June, with an expected ship date of July 15th."

I think we can now officially consider this mystery solved.