Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

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Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by Ajay » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:40 pm

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Welcome! For details on this rewatch, click here!

Already at the first special. Oof!

Here are some legal ways to stream the series:
Funimation (North America)
AnimeLab (Australia and New Zealand)

This week we're covering:

[spoiler]迫る超決戦!ギニュー特戦隊ただ今参上!!
Semaru Chō-Kessen! Ginyū Tokusentai Tadaima Sanjō!!
The Great Battle Approaches! The Ginyu Special-Squad Takes the Stage!!


Goku’s training is finished! Having acquired strength that surpasses the limits of the Saiyan, Goku rests in preparation for the decisive battle. Kuririn and Gohan finally arrive at the Eldest’s house, but are overtaken by Vegeta right in front of it! Gohan receives a power-up from the Eldest, but he’s still no match for Vegeta… At that moment, five large ki draw near. In order to fight the Ginyu Special-Squad, Vegeta temporarily joins forces with Gohan and the others.

悟空が大接近!フリーザ包囲網をぶち破れ
Gokū ga Daisekkin! Furīza Hōimō o Buchiyabure
Goku on Final Approach! Smash through Freeza’s Dragnet


The only way to defeat the Ginyu Special-Squad is to use the Dragon Balls to make Vegeta immortal! Gohan and Kuririn cooperate with Vegeta and assemble the Dragon Balls. But as Kuririn hesitates for a moment, the Ginyu Special-Squad appears, and steals the Dragon Balls in the blink of an eye. Ginyu delivers the Dragon Balls to Freeza, and the remaining four end up fighting Vegeta and the others. The results of their Janken is that Gurd will fight with Gohan and Kuririn, while Recoom will fight Vegeta!

超魔術かトリックか!?Mr.グルドが怒ったぞ!
Chō-Majutsu ka Torikku ka!? Misutā Gurudo ga Okotta!
Is This Some Super-Magic or Just a Trick?! Mr. Gurd is Angry!


The battle between Gohan, Kuririn, and Gurd begins. Though Gurd’s battle power isn’t much, he has the psychic power to stop time! However, Gohan and Kuririn’s speed far surpass his imagination. Cornered, Gurd uses a paralyzing technique to seal up the pair’s movement. Gurd tries to skewer them, but at that moment, Vegeta severs Gurd’s head with a single blow!

たったひとりの最終決戦 〜フリーザに挑んだZ戦士 孫悟空 (カカロット) の父〜
Tatta Hitori no Saishū Kessen ~Furīza ni Idonda Zetto-senshi Kakarotto no Chichi~
A Final, Solitary Battle: The Father of Z-Warrior Kakarrot, Who Challenged Freeza


On Planet Vegeta, a Saiyan named Kakarrot is born. Meanwhile, Kakarrot’s father Bardock is busy conquering Planet Kanassa together with his team of fellow Saiyans. Though they succeed in wiping out almost all of the planet’s inhabitants, Bardock is attacked by a single survivor, Tohro. To avenge his race, Tohro curses Bardock with the ability to see the future, so that he may be plagued by visions of the Saiyans’ own forthcoming annihilation. While Bardock stays on Planet Vegeta to recover from this attack, his team goes on to Planet Meat, their next target. Bardock finally makes a full recovery, and goes to see his newborn son. Disgusted by his son’s low battle power, Bardock judges him to be nothing more than scum. And with that, he heads off to Planet Meat to join his comrades.

When Bardock arrives on Meat, however, he discovers that Freeza has turned on the Saiyans, and that his team has been wiped out by Dodoria. To avenge his comrades, Bardock kills Dodoria’s men, but is easily beaten by Dodoria himself. Left for dead, Bardock recovers and heads to Planet Vegeta to warn the other Saiyans of Freeza’s betrayal. Just as Bardock nears the planet, Kakarrot is dispatched to a distant world called “Earth”, and the pair’s spaceships’ briefly cross paths. Arriving on Planet Vegeta, Bardock is laughed at and disbelieved by everyone he meets, and he soon realizes that he has no choice but to confront Freeza all by himself. Freeza’s spaceship approaches Planet Vegeta, and Bardock flies out to meet it, defeating many of Freeza’s men along the way. Freeza emerges from his ship, and fires a gigantic energy ball at Planet Vegeta, which Bardock is powerless to repel. Planet Vegeta is completely destroyed by this attack, along with Bardock and Freeza’s petty henchmen, while Freeza himself laughs with delight.

Meanwhile, Kakarrot’s spaceship has landed on Earth. Baby Kakarrot is soon found by an old man named Son Gohan, who adopts him and gives him the name “Son Goku”. And so, the story of Dragon Ball begins…

ブルマが危ない!!四星球はフリーザの手に
Mōi Rikuumu! Warukute Tsuyokute Tondemonai Yatsu
The Savage Recoom! The Bad, Strong, and Outrageous Guy


Going all out at full power, Vegeta preemptively attacks Recoom! Recoom takes hardly any damage from even an attack of 20,000… Instead, Vegeta is worn ragged by Recoom’s attacks. As Recoom tries to finish Vegeta off with his special attack, the Eraser Gun, Gohan and Kuririn attack him and save Vegeta. But Recoom’s single blow KO’s Kuririn. Gohan faces Recoom on his own, but…

死ぬな悟飯!悟空・ついに決戦場に到着だ
Shinu na Gohan! Gokū · Tsui ni Kessenjō ni Tōchaku da
Don’t Die, Gohan! Goku Finally Touches Down on the Battlefield


Freeza has assembled the Dragon Balls, but he doesn’t know the method of getting his wish granted. In order to learn this method, Freeza heads for the Eldest’s house. Gohan battles Recoom, but Recoom easily blocks his attacks! Even his full power Masenkō merely scorches Recoom’s hand. He attacks Gohan as if enjoying himself. His kick blows Gohan away. His neck is broken, and he’s already at death’s door… At that moment, Goku finally arrives on Planet Namek!![/spoiler]


Suggested Format & Weekly Questions


Language: For the sake of context, let us know which language you're watching the series in (and what score, if required).
General Thoughts: Your thoughts on the episode, possibly linked to the suggested questions if need be. Cover the plot, the tone, the character interactions, and characterisation.
Entertainment Factor: How was the pacing? Did the episode keep you entertained throughout, or what could have been done better?
Animation: Did you like the action sequences, or the way characters emoted? Did things move in a satisfying way, or was it mostly style over substance?
Questions: Not necessary, but if you're curious about opinions on a specific point that hasn't been touched on, go ahead and ask! It's a nice way to spur the topic onward.

- How well does the Bardock special mesh with the content from the manga, and in particular, how do you feel about the time in which it was broadcast? Does its placement here make sense?

- This arc has introduced the idea of near-death power-ups, alongside the Grand Elder's ability to unlock latent power. How do you feel about these concepts and their impact down the line?
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:51 pm

Oh damn the Bardock special time? No DBS this weekend, deffo watching that this weekend in JPN especially since I have nothing but awful things about the dub so pretty excited actually! Just in time to get Badock hype for next month's Grandista Bardock too!

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by gaberparadiso » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:58 pm

Episode 61

General thoughts: okay, we left two pointless fillers behind, and now we're back with the main plot. Apart from the ugly fan disservice with Goku, this episode is really solid. First off, I really like how they do build-up the Ginyu Force's arrival, with Freezer smirking and Vegeta getting so scared, to the point that he's forced to join forces with Gohan and Krillin, who also find out the Namekian DBs can grant three wishes. Then, this happens: probably my favorite moment from the whole series, the Ginyu Force's introduction. It's really well-directed, the music placement is perfect, and I really like that Recoome and Burter's poses are symmetrical, just like Jeice and Guldo's. Plus, Freezer blushing is a cool touch. Someone prefers SSJ Goku, SSJ2 Gohan or Majin Vegeta's sacrifice as cult moments. I dig this one, I find it just awesome.

Entertainment factor: Orime's direction is simply great here. I really liked the transition from the outside of Saichoro's house to the actual inside where Gohan stays. Moreover, with a fantastic ending like that...

Animation: Orime's storyboarding is also fantastic, through a creative use of flowers in a couple of situations (Goku feeling light and Ginyu Force striking poses), and of course, through his trademark hologram imageries, which we could appreciate in his previous episodes: Krillin sensing Vegeta coming close works really well in this case. Unfortunately, though, this episode is a bit inconsistent art-wise, as Iida and Kan'no's drawings are mostly decent (the latter's Freezer looks really solid), but the placement of Ebisawa's corrections feels kinda awkward: for example, when Krillin and Gohan sense Vegeta's arrival (Kan'no's scene), the former shows Kan'no's traits, but the latter is nearly overshadowed by Ebisawa's touch. It looks jarring, to the point that not even his Goku looks that good in this episode. Not to mention his questionable proportions on Vegeta. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 8592664577 Anyway, the highlight is clearly the Ginyu Force's introduction, animated by Kan'no, and enhanced by Orime's terrific direction. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 8709943297 (And apparently they previously reused a piece from the opening).

Music: okay placement. Nothing much to say, apart from M814 sounding perfect during Ginyu Force's introduction. I also like the 'Ginyu Tokusentai' song from DBKai, but it's still a classic.

Overall: 8/10. I was going to give a 7,5/10 rating because of the fan disservice, but the ending scene makes up for that BS. So, here we are.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by MrTennek » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:43 pm

You really get triggered by male nudity, don't you? :wtf:

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by gaberparadiso » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:46 am

MrTennek wrote:You really get triggered by male nudity, don't you? :wtf:
When it's not contextualized, it doesn't work. It has to bring up an actual point, otherwise it feels useless.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by gaberparadiso » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Episode 62

General thoughts: Guldo's flashback. Nothing seems wrong, if it weren't for Vegeta not having his tail. Considering this flashback should be set before his arrival on Earth, as he's still shown obeying Freezer's orders, this minor detail is kinda confusing. This thing aside, there's nothing much to say about this episode, since it's basically a build-up for the "Z-Warriors" vs the Ginyu Force showdown. Each member of the Ginyu Force seems to be quite skilled, even Guldo, the weakest, who can freeze time. Which raises an interesting point: if Burter is considered the fastest in the universe, shouldn't he be slower than Ginyu (much stronger than him), Freezer (again, lot and lot stronger), King Cold (automatically) and Guldo, too (he can stop time, so it's legal)? He probably thinks it because he's really dumb. Anyway, it's nice to see Vegeta and Krillin having an actual conversation near the end, in which the former suggests them to pay attention to Guldo's Tokitobas... time freeze ability. And of course, rock-paper-scissors is no longer new...

Entertainment factor: Junichi Fujise's first episode as a director, and it's just okay. Not as great as last episode.

Animation: art-wise, this episode is quite solid. Uchiyama's corrections are once again strong, and pretty much dominate the whole episode. Nothing interesting to add, apart from Freezer's priceless reaction while observing the Ginyu Force's procedure. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uCBGko0LRpQ/T ... z62-06.jpg Oddly enough, for some reason Uchiyama's corrections on Ginyu make him look more like a human, and less like an alien. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0203034224

Music: apart from M106 during the Ginyu Force's dance, again, there's nothing much to comment on. Fairly okay-ish placement.

Overall: 7/10. Obviously ep. 61 was a lot better.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by Taisa732 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:27 am

Language: Japanese

Episode 61:
General Thoughts: Episode starts off with Vegeta chasing Krillin and Gohan, and actually managing to get to them. Already it's tense, but when Vegeta understands that Ginyu Tokusentai is approaching and starts panicking that's the moment you need to get worried.

Animation: Despite me being very loud and clear about not liking Studio Live, or at least Ebisawa, I have to admit that this is probably one of there best episodes. Not that it has any spectacular or particular animation, but if anything the art was nice.
Ginyu Tokusentai's landing is the best thing, both for animation and direction.! Love the fact that you see just small parts of all five making them look menacing, until they do the dance (with flowery background!).

Episode 62:
General Thoughts: I like the portray of the new enemies. Maybe not as much individually, but as a group (like it it should be for now).
They gave Guldo a bit more focus and a motive to hate Vegeta, and I don't mind it at all. It gives a little more characterisation to both Guldo and Vegeta.
I also like how Vegeta almost automatically steps in the role of the leader of this unexpected trio.

Animation: Very nice in the animation and/or direction point of view. Guldo rolling on the flow (in the flashback) was very well done.
But most of this episode strength is the way they show Guldo's, and more importantly, Burter's powers. They don't show speed by accelerating the movement, they instead slow everything else down.

Episode 63:
General Thoughts: Nice fight. Krillin and Gohan work well as a team at this point and they are far superior to there adversary. On the other hand Guldo demonstrates why is part of the team, despite him not being as powerful as the rest of his comrades.
And the unexpected twist at the end, were Vegeta intervenes, is a nice surprise because at this point he doesn't have any reason to help them.

Animation: Very very good episode as far as animation!
First of all I really enjoy how they show Guldo's power, both of them. Unique visuals for unique powers. Also, Guldo himself is very well animated, almost making me sad he didn't last longer. His movements are all interesting an fun to watch. Absolutely love his running cycle and the way he rolls around.
Very nice debris, but that is no surprise at this point, it's Shimanuki's trademark.
Even Jeice and Burter's game of rock-paper-scissors has some charm.
The only thing I didn't like is Vegeta killing Guldo, Vegeta looks disproportionate in some cut's.
Plus I like the panels better in the manga, Vegeta chopping Guldo's head off is more gruesome and also more effective.

Episode 64:
General Thoughts: Final fla... oh wait, it's too early for that isn't it?
Jokes aside this is a very good fight. This is what the Zarbon one should've looked like!
Love the little details of Ginyu Tokusentai referring to Vegeta as Vegeta-chan, showing how insignificant he is in comparison. Also, this is the episode that Gohan starts calling him Vegeta-san. I imagine he gain Gohan's respect after saving them from Guldo.

Animation: Probably one of the if not the best episode this far! It's simply amazing!
Everything is moving, we have explosions, smoke debris and an amazing fight. Most importantly beautiful character acting from everybody, especially Recoome.
Breathtaking!

Episode 65:
General Thoughts: And then there's filler, but it is the least offensive. They actually managed to include stuff from the manga very nicely in the fight. Although I do find it hard to believe that Gohan could last longer than Vegeta in a fight against Recoome.
Oddly enough the more interesting parts are Freeza's.

Animation: After two amazing episodes, this looks a bit uninteresting. It's not bad, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't have anything that stands out.
I do want to point out that Recoome teeth are a bit inconsistent. He lost a lot of them in the previews episode, but sometimes he's missing just a couple, other times half of them and sometimes he has all of them. I found it distracting, but that is probably just me.

- How well does the Bardock special mesh with the content from the manga, and in particular, how do you feel about the time in which it was broadcast? Does its placement here make sense?

I haven't seen the special in years, so for now I'm just trying to remember (if I manage to see it during the week I'll update, I guess).
In retrospect I think that this is a good point to place it, but probably would've been a bit better if it was before Goku's fight against Freeza. But I'd say it's close enough.
I think it's connects well with the manga, especially because Toriyama added to it himself.
If anything, you can say that it is it's own little story that nobody remembers (in universe I mean) and that it's lost from memory. Even Freeza never really connects Bardock to Goku as being father and son, aside from some fiscal resemblance (or even Bardock and Raditz come to think about it).
Beside, it's kinda neat that Goku's father had an important role in the past, even if he never finds out.

- This arc has introduced the idea of near-death power-ups, alongside the Grand Elder's ability to unlock latent power. How do you feel about these concepts and their impact down the line?

To be blunt, I don't care. it's simply an easy way so Toriyama can justify why X is stronger Y all of a sudden or to have some surprise comebacks (like Vegeta against Zarbon). It's just a plot device that allows the story and the fights to never become to boring or predictable.
Whatever, X can have his near-death power-up, as long as Toriyama can continue to write amazing fights that keeps the audience on it's toes. And since he does, I'm OK with it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by gaberparadiso » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:52 pm

Episode 63

General thoughts: I thought this episode was so much better, as a result I was pretty much disillusioned with the fight between Gohan and Krillin vs Guldo. First of all, this is the first DBZ fight to feature the infamous leitmotiv of reusing energy waves over and over again, without landing a single hit. Second, this fight doesn't even have an IDEA, it's incredibly repetitive and boring: Gohan and Krillin fire their beams, Guldo stops time, Guldo holds his breath, Guldo breathes out, Gohan and Krillin use instantaneous movements, Guldo stops time, Guldo holds his breath and so on. Furthermore, Guldo's psychic power is not EVEN that interesting, since it's something even Chaozu can do. Needless to say, WHAT'S THE POINT OF BULMA'S CUTAWAYS?? We don't need them. PERIOD. Lastly, I'll never understand WHY Toda changed Guldo's death: in the manga Vegeta beheads him with his bare hand, which is a damn brutal and effective scene. Whereas, in the anime, he still beheads Guldo, but with a tiny beam. It just happens. This scene manages to be FUNNIER rather than GRUESOME. I don't know why, Guldo's reaction makes me laugh quite a bit, as he looks more amazed than desperate. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0902155010 In fact, because of a quite poor direction, supposedly funny scenes like the remaining Ginyu Force striking poses and rock-paper-scissors are quite annoying, whereas supposedly tense and creepy moments like Guldo punching Gohan and Krillin or his own beheading become much funnier. It's not okay.

Entertainment factor: pretty disappointing first time as a director for Kazuhito Kikuchi. His direction is lackluster: funny moments aren't funny but annoying, and tense moments are actually funnier. That's NOT how an episode works.

Animation: this is Takeuchi's last episode as a supervisor, and once again, we definitely realize why: his round, simple and muddled art looks kinda off at this point of the series. He manages to create some funny expressions, like with Guldo pulling Krillin's ears, but it feels mostly random and out of context. Luckily, his corrections are nearly absent, as we get to see Shimanuki and Hisada shining as both artists and animators: it's not even a surprise the former would supervise the following Seigasha episode, as his artstyle became more mature and interesting. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 5321643009 Animation-wise, even though it's not a good fight, there's plenty of nice animation going on, which are mostly Shimanuki and Hisada's works. The former is by now the master of debris, whereas the latter definitely stands out for his elastic and elongated movements. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 7396674560

Music: pretty bad and questionable placement here: Karin's Lesson To Goku when Piccolo sense Gohan in danger??? Mt. Frypan when Guldo stops time??? Make no sense whatsoever. Nonetheless, the worst pick is Tao Pai Pai Is Knocked Off His Pillar when Guldo is beheaded. When I was a kid, I laughed at that scene. It's apparently fine, until you realize THAT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY IN THE FIRST PLACE. This short BGM sounds pretty dumb by its own, and they still played it during a not-so-funny-on-paper moment. This is just STUPID.

Overall: 5,5/10. Having Shimanuki and Hisada animating doesn't always make up for a lame fight and a terrible direction.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by gaberparadiso » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:32 pm

Episode 64

General thoughts: without a doubt, the Vegeta vs Recoome fight is a lot better than the fight vs Guldo. It's pretty solid, with some neat moves and choreographies. Nonetheless, the real MVP of this episode is Recoome, who likes to give his own name to his attacks (Recoome Kick, Recoome Elbow, Recoome Eraser Gun). What stands about about him is that he never seems to lose his calm. His clothes, hair and teeth suffered damages, but apparently not his attitude. It's almost quite bizarre to see him in a fairly good shape after receiving a Final Flash prototype head-on (despite his superficial wounds). We also see an Easter Egg, in which Recoome pulls Vegeta out of the ground like a vegetable. Haha. Anyway, despite displaying some noteworthy animation, this episode isn't utterly perfect, since it lacks of a solid direction: yeah, Vegeta is badly injured, Krillin is KO and only Gohan is left to fight Recoome, but there's no build-up, there's no tension during these moments. It's quite a problem.

Entertainment factor: pretty fun as a whole, but again, Okazaki's direction is mediocre. This episode deserved so much more.

Animation: the least compelling aspect is Okazaki's bad storyboarding. It's barely felt in this episode. Fortunately, the rest makes up for this lack: this is one of the best-looking DBZ episodes, supervised by Masaki Satou, in his first and only time as a Studio Junio supervisor. His corrections are incredibly strong and are felt nearly everywhere in this episode. https://cdn.hobbyconsolas.com/sites/nav ... sato_2.jpg His correcting approach is more or less akin to Takahashi's in DBS, by having an utterly consistent-looking material. I do think Nakatsuru's sequence is the only one to show a lower amount of Satou's corrections, maybe because of his solid and on-model art. In terms of actual animation, we get some pretty nice action, with Vegeta's initial rush on Recoome, (possibly) animated by uncredited Satou and Ide, https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/47182 the latter of whom can be spotted through his background animation and visual details, like eyes and shading. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 2941218816 His trademark bulbous ears were certainly redrawn. As for Eguchi, he's probably responsible of the following scene, which shows some really neat aspects, like their flurry of attacks and the constant use of impact frames. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 6500284416 That's what I want to see in a good fight. I really like that Vegeta shows different fighting poses while he's trying to land a hit on Recoome. https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/47183 Lastly, I guess I should mention Recoome's Eraser Gun scene, animated by Nakatsuru, which is quite fast-paced. Even though his typical inexpressivity is shown when Krillin kicks Recoome, it's not that bothersome unlike other times. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 3476912130 Overall, this episode has plenty of good animations. I wish the storyboarding gave some further value to them.

Music: fairly decent placement here: M511 during the second "round" of Vegeta vs Recoome is quite fitting, and so is M809-2 during Recoome's Eraser Gun scene.

Overall: 8/10. With a better direction, my rating would be higher. Too bad.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:41 am

Episodes covered: Dragon Ball Z 61-65 ("Dragon Ball 214-218")

Sadly, I don't have access to any of the specials or movies, and it's been years since I've seen any of them (and only about half of them in their original Japanese format), so aside from relying on memory I won't be able to comment on those too much.


EPISODE 61
* I wonder how this scenario would've played out if the Ginyu squad hadn't been about to arrive. Vegeta would probably have gotten in trouble against Gohan, Kuririn and Nail at the same time (In fact, going by battle powers shown later, Nail would squash Vegeta, but I'll ignore those numbers because they would've changed to suit the story anyway).
* They argue about making either Vegeta or Gohan immortal, but if you're going down that route, the best choice is obviously to make Nail immortal! Sadly, he doesn't get involved in the Ginyu battle at all...
* And there they are! Easily the most majestic introduction ever, I think we can all agree.

EPISODE 62
* It's nice that Gurd's character gets fleshed out a little bit, but the seriousness of his flashback feels kinda out of place compared to how goofy the Ginyu squad is supposed to be.
* I like this placement of Red Ribbon arc music; the army theme and the silly, whimiscal nature of that arc suits the Ginyu squad rather well. I am, however, disappointed that they don't each have a differently colored aura as they fly off. :'(
* Still strange to see Goku using an alarm, brushing his teeth, washing up, etc. I still see him as the little country bumpkin who didn't know what a bath was. :P
* Butta's coolest moment! (Also his ONLY cool moment... D:) It's just so awesome how he returns before Vegeta & co. have even craned their necks around to watch him fly off!
* This is actually really scary when you don't know about the Namekian password. All seven Dragon Balls are going straight to Freeza and there is nothing our heroes can do to prevent it.

EPISODE 63
* Gurd having to hold his breath to stop time is a good anime addition, I think. It makes for a credible and amusing limitation on that ability, rather than the manga's arbitrary number of seconds.
* Something about Gurd's voice sounded familiar - then I remembered it's the same guy who voices Majin Boo.
* All this banter between the Ginyu members makes me sad they don't stick around longer. So much potential there for top-quality entertainment in a spin-off series, or backstory, or something.
* Okay, this is the first time I was annoyed by a cutaway to Bulma, as I was really getting into the Ginyu stuff. However, the second I realized Bulma was communicating with Muten Rôshi, my annoyance changed to excitement because how can I not love interaction between two legendary characters?

EPISODE 64
* Hey another "emerging from smoke unscathed" cliché, except Recoom ISN'T 100% unscathed, making the cliché infinitely more tolerable, in my opinion. The fabulous pose obviously doesn't hurt, either.
* Oh yeah remember that planet trading business Freeza runs? As far as filler goes, exploring that story element is a nice idea.
* DAMN this episode is gorgeous. Even trivial shots of bystanders spectating the fight are drool-inducing. As my dad once said about my DB fanart, "for ugly characters, they are beautifully drawn".

EPISODE 65
* Nail turning back does feel like one of those things Toriyama probably changed on the fly, if you ask me. Like "Oh yeah this character was supposed to come in and assist the Earthlings. Kinda forgot about him. Whoops. Well, Goku's about to arrive, and I kinda need Nail back at the Grand Elder's place, sooo..."
* Oh geez, Kuririn borderline sobbing about Gohan's fate tugged at my heartstrings, there. I'm always impressed with Gohan's persistence and endurance as he fights Recoom. So far, it's probably the closest he's gotten to fulfilling the typical Shonen protagonist role. It's a shame his story doesn't really go anywhere this arc. He and Kuririn deserve so much more for all the hard work they've put in. Alas, here comes Goku to steal the narrative away from them. And yet I still can't help but be a little excited to see him touch down anyway.


- How well does the Bardock special mesh with the content from the manga, and in particular, how do you feel about the time in which it was broadcast? Does its placement here make sense?
Like Toriyama said, it's not something he would've written, but he approved of it anyway. That makes me feel the material fits in well enough. As far as placement goes, it's not where I would've put it. In the middle of the Ginyu battle? Ehhh. I think I'd place it some point after the Ginyu squad are dealt with, when the idea of "Super Saiyan" gets mentioned more and more and the focus shifts back to Goku and Freeza. Of course, that might've made it impossible for Toriyama to sneak in a reference to the special in the manga. Hard to say what the perfect placement would've been.


- This arc has introduced the idea of near-death power-ups, alongside the Grand Elder's ability to unlock latent power. How do you feel about these concepts and their impact down the line?
Since characters are always going to be as powerful as the story requires them to be, it means the established battle power numbers are suddenly going to skyrocket for no logical reason. So I guess Toriyama needed something to explain the reasoning behind those haphazard power boosts. It's a bit lazy, and it just makes me wish battle power numbers had never been introduced in the first place (or rather, I wish people didn't become so unhealthily obsessed with them).


Favorite character: Can I treat the entire Ginyu squad as one character? No? :( I'll pick one member to represent them, then. Butta's my personal favorite, but I won't let bias stand in my way - Recoom is clearly the one who stole the show this week. Honorable mention to Gohan for putting up the best fight he could against the dude.
Previous favorites: Raditz, Gohan, the Saber Tiger, Kaiô, Tenshinhan, Vegeta(1), Kuririn(1), Bulma, Vegeta(2), Kuririn(2), the Grand Elder, Vegeta(3).
Usually goes by "Kevtrev" elsewhere online.
Draws comics that may or may not have been inspired by Akira Toriyama's amazing manga-making skills.

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gaberparadiso
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by gaberparadiso » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:55 pm

Episode 65

General thoughts: WHY is Chichi hanging up her laundry at Bulma's house?? At this point we don't need her screen time: WE ALREADY KNOW SHE'S OBSESSIVELY CONCERNED ABOUT GOHAN. We don't need our memories to be refreshed. We don't need to be reminded of her flanderization. This detail aside, there are several great aspects about this episode: first off, Kenji Utsumi as Recoome and Lord Nakao as Freezer. Utsumi totally nailed the Recoome Bomber scene: he sounds so sadistic and insane. As for our Lord, any word would be futile: he's calm, but also uncouth, he's subtle, but also over-the-top. This particular small bit is EPIC, which reminds us WHY I cannot fathom a different seiyu for Freezer. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 7336273920 He's not as promiscuous as the original English dubs, in which he wanted to caress the DBs... Then, Gohan's persistence is noteworthy, despite his injuries. He puts up a passable fight against Recoome, who knocks him out by breaking his neck. This scene is masterfully and brutally portrayed, thanks to Ueda's terrific direction. Until the next Goku time.

Entertainment factor: fantastic direction from Ueda. Probably his best work so far: I really liked how he handled the final scenes, with an unsettling silence and the blowing wind sound effect. Classy.

Animation: Ueda's storyboarding is superb, as expected: his use of colors has never been so important, especially when Recoome breaks Gohan's neck, on a BLACK background, to purple-colored Krillin and Vegeta's astonishment. Absolute silence, no sfx, no BGM, simply eerie and brutal atmosphere. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 9530991616 In terms of animation, the Gohan vs Recoome fight is not as good as the previous one, but is still okay. We also get to know more of Yamamuro, under Shindo's corrections, and his art looks quite mature, especially on Gohan. https://twitter.com/DBanimators/status/ ... 5294102528

Music: despite belonging to M7**, M719 was played only now, after 65 episodes. That aside, there's nothing much to say: okay placement, but it was a pretty wise solution to leave the ending bit without any BGM.

Overall: 7,5/10. Ueda is the MVP here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 61-65 & TV Special 1 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 13]

Post by MonkeyKing16 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:04 pm

I just purchased the double feature Blu-ray for Bardock/Trunks specials so it was a good opportunity for me to watch legally. Rewatching the Bardock special in the original Japanese is such a weird experience in that I'm watching mostly the same footage that I did when it aired on Toonami and yet I feel like I'm watching something anew. Its still pretty good even after all this time.

Animation is standard TV animation, in that there are lots of close up shots when hits are being thrown, but one can still feel the impact of these hits. COrrect me if I'm wrong, but were some animation sequences from past episodes reused for this special? The one that comes to mind is Dodoria using his mouth beam to kill Bardock.

I like the atmosphere of the impending doom near the end. And Solid State Scouter is a fantastic track. Really missed out on it when the special aired on TOonami.

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