Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Melee_Sovereign
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:43 am

Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:28 pm

Share your thoughts of what each series has over the other. That is classic Dragon Ball, DBZ, and DBS. And GT if you want to compare that too, but I probably won't.

Dragon Ball:

Pros: Focused a lot on martial arts as opposed to just power. Focused on adventure. More characters were relevant and formidable. Powers and abilities of various characters were more differentiated. Some of the best humor and comedy in the franchise.

Cons: Villains were a bit simplistic in motive. Art style was a bit simplistic (subjective).

Dragon Ball Z:

Pros: Best art style. Best animation. Had blood. Developed a more mature and serious tone while also keeping the light hearted essence of Dragon Ball to an extant. Introduced more Sci-fi. Debuted one of the most well-written and developed villains (Frieza). Introduced my favorite villain (Cell). Goku's personality was more balanced (goofy and somewhat childlike but still reasonably mature). Best power-ups and transformations that felt impactful and meaningful.

Cons: Worst pacing; episodes and sagas dragged on a lot. Lot's of filler. Death lost a lot of meaning (everyone just got wished back) which in-turn, took away the potential for tension. Character who weren't a saiyan were beginning to fall out of relevance. Environmental design was oversimplistic (just a bunch of baron landscapes, rocks and mountains in most fight scenes. Namek was very plain looking). Lack of powerful female characters except 18.

Dragon Ball Super:

Pros: Best pacing and minimal filler. Has comedy and humor comparable to classic Dragon Ball. Returned meaning to death; more characters actually died and never came back, and introduced the threat of being erased from existence. Featured more moral ambiguity and went beyond simply a plot of good vs evil, and has a lot more morally ambiguous characters. e.g. Hit, Beerus, Whis, Zamasu, Black etc... Environmental design became more complex and interesting compared to Z (We actually see them fighting in a city environment more on the Zamasu arc, and nothing beats the ToP fighting stage and World of Void). Ultra Instinct. A solid variety of powerful female characters including female super saiyans.

Cons: Suffered a lot of animation issues (I know the previous series did too, but DBS had it especially bad), and had an overall inferior animation style to Z. Lack of blood. The childlike and goofy side of Goku's personality is over-inflated, and his personality is overall less balanced. Characters who weren't saiyan continued to become less and less relevant, more-so than Z. Lots of plot-holes and asspull powerups.
Last edited by Melee_Sovereign on Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Doctor.
Banned
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Doctor. » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Who died in DBS? Besides Zamasu, who doesn't really count considering villains also stay dead in the previous series.

User avatar
Helios518
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 918
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:42 pm
Location: Not where you think

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Helios518 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:57 pm

Doctor. wrote:Who died in DBS? Besides Zamasu, who doesn't really count considering villains also stay dead in the previous series.
He's probably talking about Future Trunks' timeline getting erased and not wishing it back with the Super DBs.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:55 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:Dragon Ball:

Pros: Focused a lot on martial arts as opposed to just power. More characters were relevant and formidable. Powers and abilities of various characters were more differentiated. Some of the best humor and comedy in the franchise.
I'd like to add that there was a greater sense of adventure in this series over "A wild Strong Opponent appeared!", as exemplified in the PIlaf and Red Ribbon arcs.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20280
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:02 pm

Dragon Ball
Pro: Great usage of entire cast, the evolving nature of the story and even the structure, Toriyama turning tropes on their head
Con: The Red Ribbon Army arc is overall very weak

DBZ
Pro: Great new characters that deep into the story; Vegeta's character arc, the fight against Vegeta is one of the best fights in any series.
Con: Overly reliant on the formula of Goku being taken out early in the story; many of the best characters get left behind and instead of cycling them out, Toriyama keeps them around with nothing to do. Awful filler and the story arcs get insanely long

GT
Pro: The ending; Goku, Pan, and Trunks' chemistry; lots of good ideas; humor
Con: Lots of good ideas with bland execution, the fights were boring

All three series have great music
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:54 pm

Dragon Ball
Pros: Very accessible, generally nicely paced, highly unpredictable, the filler was generally excellent, the villains are all an absolute blast, and the tournament arcs are among the best stuff Dragon Ball has ever done. Funimation's first decent dub of a piece of Dragon Ball media.
Cons: The Red Ribbon arc is longer than it needed to be, some of the perverted antics in episode 6, aswell as while Goku and Kuririn are training for the first tournament haven't aged well.

Dragon Ball Z
Pros: Many of the best fights in the series, Piccolo and Vegeta have incredible character arcs, there's a reason all shounen anime since have been influenced by the style of the Saiyan, Namek, and Freeza arcs.
Cons: The filler gets a little out of control at times, animation is pretty inconsistent in the Freeza and Cell arcs, and the Boo and Cell arcs have a pretty messy progression of plot. Funimation's dub sucks, and Ocean's uses sucky scripts, skips 50 episodes, and the first two seasons are heavily edited. The home releases in the west are also really terrible.

Dragon Ball GT
Pros: Some of the best and most consistent animation in the franchise, IMO the best music in the franchise, a perfect ending, the Evil Dragons is one of the most interesting setups to an arc there's been, the Baby arc was a brilliant idea, the designs are all amazing, the show has a style that sets it apart from everything else, and it has the best pacing a Dragon Ball series would have until Kai. And Blue Water's dub of GT was the first all-round good Dragon Ball series dub until Kai. And the Japanese master audio still exists, in stereo even.
Cons: The first ~10 episodes are pretty dull, the fight with Baby lasts a little too long, the Super #17 arc sucks, the first Evil Dragon and the electricity one are dull, the mole Evil Dragon's episode wasn't written very well. Funimation's dub completely sucks, and Blue Water's isn't easily obtainable, and neither is the stereo Japanese audio.

Dragon Ball Kai
Pros: The classic, landmark Z series with pacing similar to GT, an actually good Funimation dub, much better Japanese audio quality, beautiful visuals, and an improved sub track.
Cons: The Boo arc's dub is worse, and its visuals, music, and recutting are a bit crap. The Kikuchi score for Kai 1.0 was not well-handled, and a lot of the best parts of the original version of Z which were filler are missing here. Arguably, if it wasn't for the dub, you'd be better off reading the manga if you wanted what Kai has to offer.

Beware: I hate Super. If you like Super, you probably won't like reading what I have to say about it. There's no problem with that; everyone is entitled to their opinions, just... Don't say I didn't warn you. (I'm looking at you, Sangofe : P)

Dragon Ball Super
Pros: Some of the best fight choreography and animation in the series, once the animation troubles from early on got resolved, the clean, shiny look they went for was quite nice, the OP/ED themes are classics, and the "Filler" is excellent.
Cons: The pacing is consistently awful, in-series music isn't great, there's no real tension a lot of the time since we know everyone gets out of this okay due to the epilogue at the end of the Boo arc, the Black and Tournament Of Power arcs are poor executions of already-terrible ideas, Goku's characterisation is completely out of whack, the show runs on "Tell don't show", the show tends to reset to status quo at the end of every arc after BOG, interesting ideas for characters are squandered with bland execution(Caulifla, Cabba, Hit, Frost), Boo has basically become a punchline to a joke only Toei seem to be in on, the animation has been pretty messy and inconsistent at times even after that initial slump at the beginning, the look of the show suddenly went awful starting in the Tournament Of Power arc for no reason, and despite the show spending a ton of time overexplaining many things, there's a ton of important things that are never properly explained or introduced(Spirit sword coming outta nowhere with no explanation or anything, Super Saiyan Blue being described the same way as Goku going Super Saiyan against Beerus at the end of the BOG arc, etc.). It basically solely relies on hype and nostalgia, and I see no real value in it outside of this, and perhaps fanfic fuel if you're into that sort of thing.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
MajinMan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1236
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:42 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by MajinMan » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:01 pm

Dragon Ball

Pros: I think the best stories are told in the original. It has the best comedy, tournaments, and cast usage. Some good choreography and martial arts in some of the fights. Goku himself develops a lot, and everyone feels important to the story. The Muten Roshi also has a great presence in this one as well, which is a plus for me. The OST is good.

Cons: The RRA arc is a bit bloated, and the Piccolo Daimao arc is not the greatest, even if it has slightly improved on the manga version. Some of the filler episodes are really boring.


Dragon Ball Z

Pros: Lots of great new Characters introduced to the main cast, like Gohan, Vegeta, and Mr. Satan. Action feels a lot more explosive and dynamic, keeping up with the power escalation. The villains I feel are the best from all the animes. Great development for Piccolo and Vegeta. The OST is even better than the original.

Cons: A LOT more filler than DB. The Freeza arc in particular is butchered by filler. The power escalation also gets hard to convey through action, and everything ends up feeling samey after the Freeza arc. Goku, as much as I like him, gets used as a "plot device" too many times, especially in, again, the Freeza arc. The Cell arc, to me, has the most plot holes and inconsistencies from all the manga only arcs.


Dragon Ball GT

Pros: While I don't think all the ideas in GT are great, there are some that are really good, like Baby and the Evil Dragons. The Baby arc I think in particular is actually really solid, beating out 2 or 3 arcs from the original manga. Super Saiyan 4 is also a pretty good new form. The OST, while different, is still really good.

Cons: Goku should've been reverted to an adult after the Baby arc. The Super 17 arc is the worst arc in the whole series, I just don't like it at all. The beginning episodes also don't really get good until the desert episode with Pan. The Evil Dragons arc is very disappointing in my opinion. It is the definition of "great idea, bad execution."


Dragon Ball Super

Pros: Beerus and Whis are great additions to the main cast. The humor in Super is also pretty good at times. The character interactions I feel are some of the coolest and most unique we've seen in the series, and the filler episodes are really solid for the most part. Goku Black is one of the best villains introduced in the series. The OST in the Universe Survival arc is pretty good.

Cons: Terrible production issues. The first two arcs being retellings of the new movies are not good, with the RF retelling being garbage and also the 2nd worst arc in the whole series. The timeline plotholes in the Future Trunks arc are also pretty bothersome. The Universe Survival arc can have some terrible pacing issues, feeling really long for no real reason sometimes. The OST before the US arc is also hit or miss, and was even worse before the FT arc.


There is obviously more pros and cons for each series, but this is what I could remember off the top of my head.
Heroes come and go, but legends are forever.

60.

Rest in peace.

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:56 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:Dragon Ball Z:

Pros: Best art style. Best animation. Had blood. Developed a more mature and serious tone while also keeping the light hearted essence of Dragon Ball to an extant.
Uh....

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

DB has always had its fair share of blood and violent scenes literally from the getgo, even back during its more "gag manga" period. That never really changes any from DB into Z.

Also beyond that, I think its flat out objectively incorrect that DB stops being about martial arts once it crosses over into Z. Or that Z is somehow more "serious" in tone than DB was before it. DB stops overwhelmingly focusing on gag humor around halfway through at the very absolute most (you can make a case for that happening even earlier if you want).

From the 22nd Budokai onward, DB is almost indistinguishable in any meaningful way from DBZ. Martial arts is ALWAYS the focus of the whole series from Goku's introduction and initial training all the way through to Boo's demise and Goku and Oob taking off from the Budokai stadium: the supernatural elements (which are also there and prominent from the getgo) simply become more and more increasingly pronounced. But that hardly starts all of a sudden once Raditz lands: that's a changeover that occurs and reaches its full fruition well long prior to that point.

The difference between DB and Z are nowhere NEAR as stark as people often make it sounds: really the "change" is gradual and wholly organic, and fully fleshes itself out well long prior to DBZ ever starting.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:15 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:[...] The difference between DB and Z are nowhere NEAR as stark as people often make it sounds: really the "change" is gradual and wholly organic, and fully fleshes itself out well long prior to DBZ ever starting.
Yeah, all of this, definitely.

Honestly, DBZ episode 1 just feels like it's DB episode 154. Some bits of the visual style are slightly different -- there's a little more colour in the backgrounds, Goku's gi is a lot more orange, etc. But really, it's not all that different. The style people usually associate with Z was already in full force by the time the Piccolo arc was underway.

I think DB's reputation as "The funny one that's more martial arts and comedy and very different from Z" almost certainly comes from people who never watched past the mid-point of the Red Ribbon arc.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:52 pm

Robo4900 wrote:"The funny one that's more martial arts and comedy and very different from Z"
And like I'm always stressing here: flying around, throwing Ki blasts, moving at supersonic speed, punching down mountains, teleporting everywhere, "sensing" the Ki of others, etc. within the context of Dragon Ball and other stories like it, THIS IS ALL MARTIAL ARTS ALSO. This is the exact type of fantasy/mythical martial arts that characterizes the entire Wuxia genre which DB dwells within from back to front and that stems from real life ancient Chinese/Taoist mysticism, folklore, and mythology.

Acting like "Well it was martial arts up until people started flying and shooting lasers, then it became something else entirely" is complete and utter nonsense and just plain factually and objectively incorrect. Not only is this still martial arts, its not even unique to DB/Z, nor did DB/Z either invent or popularize it (seeing as how the genre's been a staple of Asian culture for literal millennia, and a popular entity in an international sense for at least 50+ years or so at an absolute minimum).

And besides which, Z isn't the point at which this stuff is either introduced nor becomes prominent: supernatural Wuxia aspects of martial arts are present from the moment Goku reveals to Bulma that he's bulletproof and super strong (as well as Muten Roshi first busting out the Kamehameha to blow up Mt. Frypan), and they overwhelmingly dominate the series to the extent that the do in Z even as early as by the time Tao Pai Pai first comes along. And also as noted, its ALWAYS contained blood and harsh violent content from the very beginning through the very end without really much of a noticeable shift (within the original DB/Z run at least: Super's a whole other story, but that's entirely related to shifting timeslots and Japanese broadcast standards).

The distinction between DB and Z is almost virtually non-existent, at least in terms of how the title shift applies as we've known always it (at the point where Raditz lands). Even the sci fi aspects have ALWAYS been there from the beginning mixed in with all the traditional wuxia/ancient Chinese mystical kung fu stuff (unless we're conveniently forgetting the presence of things like Hoi Poi Capsules, hovercars, modern military weaponry, and the fact that locales like West City and Red Ribbon HQ co-exist alongside ancient martial arts dojos and tournament grounds, ancient Taoist/Buddhist shrines and temples, and medieval Chinese peasant villages that wouldn't be out of place in any given King Hu or Shaw Brothers film) and weren't all of a sudden introduced with Raditz and his spacepod.

Had the changeover in title occurred MUCH earlier (like maybe around the ending of the Red Ribbon arc or so) THEN we might be having a slightly different discussion about all this. But as it stands, its completely and totally arbitrary and a distinction without a real difference: as noted, DBZ episode 1 is basically just DB episode 154.

Beyond the lack of people who bother to expose themselves to much of original DB (as well as a total ignorance and unfamiliarity with Wuxia as a whole), I also think people are "fooled" into thinking there's this huge shift in tone due to how much a majority of folks only bother with the dub with the replacement score, which further enhances this illusion that DB and DBZ are these totally disparate and distinctly separate entities from one another.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4974
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:48 am

Dragonball
Pros - Less ki attacks, more martial arts, very grounded compared to what comes after it.
Cons - None imho

Dragonball Z
Pros - Redefined how the entire world looked at anime for generations to come, even still
Cons - major writing mistakes were made, some of which affect the media and the fandom to this day

Dragonball GT
Pros - There were a lot of good ideas...
Cons - ...those ideas weren't implemented that well.

Dragonball Kai
Pros - A way to reintroduce a younger generation to one of the greatest animes the world has ever known.
Cons - Should have been a reanimated series, not a trace job.

Dragonball Super
Pros -Brought renewed interest to the series after close to twenty years. Provided character development in characters in breather filler episodes,
Cons - Instead of focusing on the story and letting the money flow, Toei focused on the money, and the story went to the trash. #MARKETING

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by sintzu » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:50 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:[...] The difference between DB and Z are nowhere NEAR as stark as people often make it sounds: really the "change" is gradual and wholly organic, and fully fleshes itself out well long prior to DBZ ever starting.
I think DB's reputation as "The funny one that's more martial arts and comedy and very different from Z" almost certainly comes from people who never watched past the mid-point of the Red Ribbon arc.
I think the main thing that gave DB that reputation is Toei deciding to split the story in 2 the way they did and making things worse by having Kai only cover Z.

Had DB just continued with 154-444 then I think things would be very different today.

I get that it worked from a financial point of view as it's easier to market new shows but it's heavily damaged the franchise from a story perspective as Z is looked at as the main thing while DB is continuously more ignored as time goes on which results in people missing a 3rd of the story and plot points not having the impact the should.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:32 am

sintzu wrote:Had DB just continued with 154-444 then I think things would be very different today.

I get that it worked from a financial point of view as it's easier to market new shows but it's heavily damaged the franchise from a story perspective as Z is looked at as the main thing while DB is continuously more ignored as time goes on which results in people missing a 3rd of the story and plot points not having the impact the should.
Not to mention that it's basically made OG Dragon Ball unmarketable for being "the earlier uninteresting Other One from before it got gud". It's why we haven't gotten any major new OG Dragon Ball content since it ended, with intermittent exceptions like Revenge of King Piccolo, bits of SD, and Advanced Adventure.

User avatar
Melee_Sovereign
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:43 am

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:41 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Melee_Sovereign wrote:Dragon Ball Z:

Pros: Best art style. Best animation. Had blood. Developed a more mature and serious tone while also keeping the light hearted essence of Dragon Ball to an extant.
Uh....

DB has always had its fair share of blood and violent scenes literally from the getgo, even back during its more "gag manga" period. That never really changes any from DB into Z.
I guess I should have been a little more clear, but when I say Z had blood, I mean that blood was a regular thing. It's basically in every single fight. Where as Dragon Ball only has notable bloody moments. With Z, it's not just gory moments where someone has their arm brutally ripped off. It's the more regular things like simple blood running down their face, or small bloody scratches on random parts of their body. I like how normalized blood is in Z, and Dragon Ball wasn't really like that. Yeah, Piccolo is ripping his arm off in that scene, but where's the other blood? I see cuts all over his body, but no blood coming out of them? I see blood running out of his mouth, but that's it. In Z, there'd be streaks of blood on the forehead. On their cheeks. On their torso. On random parts of the arm. Blood wasn't just reserved for when a major injury happened like a severed arm, or getting impaled. It was very normalized in Z. Besides, I never said Dragon Ball didn't have blood. But I did point out the lack of blood as a con for Super.

I was thinking of things to write as I wrote it, and by the time I got to DBZ I thought of blood (and how normalized it was). It's one of the things that popped into my mind automatically when I think of DBZ. I simply didn't put it for Dragon Ball (as a pro or con). You really didn't need to go on a tirade about blood being in Dragon Ball.
Also beyond that, I think its flat out objectively incorrect that DB stops being about martial arts once it crosses over into Z.
Of course Z is still about martial arts, but how powerful you are is given far more importance. I don't see it as a con for Z though. Just a pro for Dragon Ball. I'm a fan of superpowers just as much as I am of martial arts. I love seeing giant energy beams, people flying, explosions and power-ups. It's a major thing that drew me to the franchise.

If I put a pro for something, it doesn't mean I think it's a con for something else (like me not mentioning blood for Dragon Ball. It doesn't mean I don't acknowledge it. Otherwise, I would have put it as a con). I don't see the greater emphasis on superpowers as a con for Z. But at the same time, I appreciate that it's less prominent in Dragon Ball, which makes the martial arts aspect of it stand out more.
Or that Z is somehow more "serious" in tone than DB was before it. DB stops overwhelmingly focusing on gag humor around halfway through at the very absolute most (you can make a case for that happening even earlier if you want).
Good point, but if only half of Dragon Ball is serious, while nearly 90% of DBZ is serious, then that means DBZ is more serious.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by sintzu » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:36 am

DB :
The biggest thing it has over Z and GT is the tighter story as each arc moves a lot faster than Z's without being rushed like Super's.
The RRA arc taking a bit to get going is probably the only issue I have with it.

Z :
I like the faster paced/huge battles that we got.
The pacing is extremely slow which is a huge with it.

GT :
It had some great ideas that I hope get revisited by Toriyama.
It's VERY boring to watch as those ideas are terrably done.

Kai :
It makes Z easier to watch and has an amazing Dub.
It was marketed as a true to the manga recut yet it skipped the original DB, a huge missed opportunity as this would've brought the original DB to the public eye and present DB's original story the way it was truly meant to be seen.

Super :
It's more DB from Toriyama and the basic plots are really good, even if rushed in some areas.
The writing and production are all over the place, something I hope will be fixed once it returns.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

Timetraveller
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:53 am

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Timetraveller » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:12 am

MajinMan wrote:Dragon Ball
The Super 17 arc is the worst arc in the whole series, I just don't like it at all
It couldn't possibly have been worse than the Russerection of F arc. Animation issues aside (the arc featured the worst animation in the show. I thought Goku vs Frieza was animated worse than the Goku vs Beerus fight), the entire plot is literally Freeza wants revenge and has a new form. Zero build-up and zero new ideas. At least Super 17 isn't a recolor like Golden Frieza. It also lasted a few episodes (as long as you'd expect filler to go on for) vs RoF which went on for twice as long and had less plot.

Timetraveller
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:53 am

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Timetraveller » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:32 am

Dragonball
Pros: Some actual martial arts choreography, best comedy mixed with adventure, gag characters that don't overstay their welcome, great character interaction\
Cons: Plot wasn't much outside of searching for the dragonballs and martial arts tournaments.

Dragonball Z:
Pros: Action packed and tension heavy, battle damage, plots are more complex and villains are slowly built up. Introduces transformation. Introduces sci-fi element. Great animation and art for the most part. We see characters grow up.
Cons: Dragonballs abuse. Original DB characters become useless. Too much filler (I enjoyed the filler but understand the gripes).

GT:
Pros: Best transformation in the series. Animation and art are good. Great designs. Explores new planets. Introduces consequences to abusing the dragonballs. Great finale to the show.
Cons: The side characters don't do much (Uub especially). Needed more fanservice (like Pan going Super saiyan or adult Gotenks). Some of the gag characters are annoying. Needed more filler and slice of life.

Super:
Pros: Expands the deity hierarchy. Adds more to the lore. Introduces some great recurring characters like Beerus and Whis. A few of the fights are spectacularly animated. Some decent filler arcs.
Cons: Too MUCH fanservice (Kale and Caulifla), too many transformations that feel inconsequential (SSB should've been skipped), plot feels disjointed and lacking originality. Too many gag characters that had too much screentime. Animation and art mostly bad until near the end of the Black arc. Comedy was repetitive. The same jokes were done over and over again. Characters don't age and a few actually get shorter

User avatar
Marugoto
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 8:14 am

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Marugoto » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:55 am

Dragon Ball

Pros: Best overall series in terms of story progression, pacing and quality of animation. Even the worst episodes still look okay. Also the anime original content blends in so well with the main series that you might not even recognize it as such if you're unfamiliar with the manga. I can't ask for a better adaptation of the first sixteen volumes.

Cons: Nothing major, but sometimes they tried too hard to work in some characters that had some off time in the manga. Like Kuririn running past Yamucha and the gang on his way to Muten Roshi, or when Goku is on his way to Piccolo Daimao and out of nowhere Chichi and Gyamao show up. It's also a shame that the accompanying film series never had the chance to adapt material beyond the 22nd Budokai.

Dragon Ball Z

Pros: Mostly follows its predecessors approach in adapting the remaining chunk of the manga and mostly succeeds. The Saiyajin arc trumps the manga in every way. The Bardock special is a fantastic addition to the Dragon Ball lore. It's also very impressive how Shunsuke Kikuchis movie scores would also perfectly fit the show.

Cons: From the Namek arc onward anime original content is much more hit or miss. Same with the animation. Late Namek is also when the padding began. Z had the misfortune of having to adapt the much longer and much clumsier written story arcs of the manga. The Boo arc in particular is a narrative holocaust. It still feels like they gave it their best though.

Dragon Ball GT

Pros: There's finally some consequences for overusing the Dragon Ball's! The show wasn't afraid of trying new things. Super Saiyajin 4 is neat. Best non Kikuchi soundtrack out of any Dragon ball show, movie, or game. Nakatsuru's style and the color palette fits the show really well.

Cons: Weird production choices. The episode where Goku finally defeats Baby has some of the worst animation. But the previous one which was mostly Goku charging up was one of the best looking, why? Also who's bright idea was it to make Nozawa do the oozaru noises? Why couldn't they just record Hidenori Arai barfing into a tin barrel again?

Dragon Ball Super

Pros: Finally bringing the original Japanese cast into the mainstream! The Goku Black arc was alright. Ultra instinct has the potential to make non Saiyajins relevant again, though I doubt that will happen.

Cons: The God hierarchy was already overblown in the Boo arc. Now Super is constantly trying to one up it. It's only a matter of time before the guy shows up that Zeno is bowing down to. Gt was wise not go any further in that direction. The music is boring and bland. The transformations are a joke. The character and creature designs look horrendously stupid. It doesn't look anything like Dragon Ball.
Last edited by Marugoto on Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5676
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:19 pm

Dragon Ball:

pros: the humor, the adventure, the focus on martial arts, Kikuchis score

cons: plot may have been too simple in formula. DB hunt - WT - DB hunt - WT - DB hunt - WT.

Dragon Ball Z:

pros: great characters, amazing fights and the stories while flawed always keep me interested no matter how many times I watch.

cons: pacing was really bad. Animation would look amazing one ep and terrible (Uchiyama/Ebisawa) the next.

Dragon Ball GT

pros: SSJ4, Goku's character felt like a natural progression of his self from EOZ, the Baby Saga is a great arc

cons: a lot of good ideas implemented badly. Goku Time. first few eps are a bit boring.

Dragon Ball Super

pros: Goku Black. Ultra Instinct. Beerus and Whis. Hit.

cons: the animation, characterization of Goku in the Black saga, Goku and Vegeta Show, ToP is badly paced, VERY inconsistent writing. too many recolors.

SuperCyan2
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Pros And Cons Of Each DB Series

Post by SuperCyan2 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:48 pm

Dragon Ball

- They fixed more on martial arts rather than beam attacks, great comedy, entertaining story, really good filler episodes and it didn't drag on like Dragon Ball Z's Freeza arc or the Cell arc before the Cell Games commenced.

Dragon Ball Z

- My favorite series of Dragon Ball Classic because all of the arcs are so memorable, some of the best music by Kikuchi and Yamamoto, the Majin Boo arc while it felt like it should have been a sequel it was a nice treat and the animation was stunning. Just as it as on Dragon Ball, too.

Dragon Ball GT

- Love that they made Gokû a kid again, I had lots of laughs, the music by Tokunaga feels so memorable and nostalgic, the final episode was a perfect farewell to end the Classic Dragon Ball era and the Super Saiyan 4 forms were awesome. I'd say this is my second favorite Classic DB series after Z because I saw it in the following order: Z > GT > DB though DB did air first.

Dragon Ball Kai

- Same thing as Dragon Ball Z but a tad shorter though what brings me back to Kai is the Yamamoto score that I love.

Dragon Ball Super

- I quite fancied the mini arc of Duplicate Vegeta with Brian Drummond and.. that's it.
Account no longer in use since 03/31/2018.

Post Reply