Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Robo4900 » Sun May 06, 2018 9:06 pm

Doctor. wrote:or the MCU.
I take it you haven't actually watched any of the movies, then. :P

While I would absolutely agree with you that Ant-Man, and to a certain extent Doctor Strange are samey, I don't think any of the other films are samey. Give Guardians Of The Galaxy and Captain America: The Winter Soldier a watch, then come back and say that. ;)
Doctor. wrote:This is very common in video games, for instance.
Not really. There are a few big names that do this(EA Sports, a few of Nintendo's regulars, though they've been switching up Zelda and such quite a bit of late), but generally samey games get forgotten in favour of new blood.
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ABED wrote: but pumping out the same old same old very often results in diminishing returns.
But this is demonstrably false. There are dozens of franchises out there that continue to live on by rehashing the same formula over and over again.
Aside from my above criticisms, I agree with you...

However ABED is right that it very often results in diminishing returns. There are exceptions, but not everything can get away with it.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon May 07, 2018 3:21 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:or the MCU.
I take it you haven't actually watched any of the movies, then. :P

While I would absolutely agree with you that Ant-Man, and to a certain extent Doctor Strange are samey, I don't think any of the other films are samey. Give Guardians Of The Galaxy and Captain America: The Winter Soldier a watch, then come back and say that. ;)
I've seen the overwhelming majority of the MCU films (including the ones you just mentioned). They are indeed the same tired, warmed-over, boring-ass shit over and over and over again, with whatever differences there are between them being exceedingly shallow and surface-level.

The closest thing to an exception out of any of them is Black Panther, and that's because that one had the courage of its convictions to at least SOMEWHAT tackle head-on the social and political implications of a city like Wakanda being a major player on the world stage, easily-offended white snowflakes be damned, not to mention its villains' motivations (I can't even imagine the kind of ungodly cringe of a movie it'd have been had it chickened out completely on that particular score). Beyond that, the closest thing to anything of even vague substance to come out of any MCU film was in Iron Man 3 (and that had to be covertly snuck in there deep, deep under the radar by Shane Black, and came at the price of pissing off comic book purists who balked at the Mandarin twist).

People come to the MCU movies time and again because they provide easy comfort food (especially now, during a presently shitty and terrifying period in history). They'll never dare to challenge the audience to any substantial degree, and at most will only provide a surface-level illusion of differences between them; Winter Soldier plays out like "Baby's First Ever Political Thriller" without any of the actual subversiveness of an actual, for-real political thriller.

Dr. Strange pays only the most shallow and timidly weak-sauce of lip service to the character's psychedelic acid-culture roots (though that's frankly way more than I was ever expecting early on: I was initially expecting them to reduce the character down to being pretty much just Middle Aged Harry Potter) while still chaining itself pretty firmly to the Iron Man formula (which in itself is just a warmed-over rehash of the Spider-Man 2002 formula, just with the shy teenage nerd that needs to learn confidence replaced with an arrogant loudmouthed adult who needs to learn humility).

Spider-Man: Homecoming wipes away every last bit of pathos that has ever defined Peter Parker as a struggling everyman superhero and reduces the character down to just sheer, raw geek wish-fulfillment... and Tony Stark's loyally sycophantic Boy Wonder, because marketing (which in and of itself has ungodly HORRIFIC unintentional and ill-conceived class implications about the character that further guts Parker of every ounce of his everyman depth that made him such a special character and touchstone to millions for numerous decades).

The Avengers is basically just a Saturday Morning kids cartoon in live action with A list talent behind it (catnip for some, not at all what I and others go to movies for though). And Guardians of the Galaxy is a James Gunn movie with pretty much EVERYTHING even vaguely subversive about Gunn's usual work from his Troma days thoroughly sanded-off for the Happy Meal set.

I've never claimed to be Nostradamus, and god knows my predictions are as wildly all over the map as any other average person's... but I'm at least reasonably confident about this much: should we ever somehow, someday break out of the current cultural rut of endlessly daisy-chaining summer blockbusters acting as the be-all, end-all centers of the cultural water cooler conversations about movies (and that in itself is a BIG "if"), the MCU movies - the overwhelming majority of them at least - are going to age VERY poorly (to everyone except die-hard Disney enthusiasts at least, of the sort who'll champion just about anything from the Mouse), because there just ISN'T any "there" there ultimately.

In all but a VERY small few of them, there's nothing there in terms of creative identity (fucking Edgar Wright was too "risque" and too left of the dial for the Disney suits to allow near these movies: and I absolutely love Wright as much as the next person, but Jodorowsky he isn't), nothing there in terms of genuine diversity or depth (unless you somehow just don't watch very many other movies outside of family friendly blockbusters: a suspicious recurring trend among many, though not all of course, MCU fans). Hell there's nothing there even in terms of cheap thrills; unless sterile, cartoonish CG monsters and robots bloodlessly smashing each other into buildings without almost anyone ever getting seriously hurt is enough to get your blood pumping, then by all means...

These are gonna be the kinds of movies that (again, if this era and zeitgeist of summer blockbusters reigning over all other movies ever somehow collapses in on itself someday) at least a decent swath of the generation after millennials, once they hit their teen years especially, are probably gonna roll their eyes at and cringe in embarrassment from their whitebread goober parents' non-stop continued raving about them.

And no: this doesn't mean that I'm in any which way a DC movie fan either... those movies are somehow even WAY worse than Marvel's. Mostly because they have such embarrassingly junior highschool-levels of pretensions at (completely faux, shallow, and illusory) edgy profundity despite their being just as equally vapid (and ultimately safe and not all that actually edgy) as Marvel's output. Except for Justice League, which ditches any and all such pretensions and is basically just a xeroxed photocopy of The Avengers with DC's characters haphazardly tacked onto it instead.

I can probably count on just one hand the number of superhero movies over the years than have genuinely hit the mark and presents themselves as actual film-films rather than a hollowed-out, watered-down facsimile that plays out more like a glorified amusement park ride at Disney World rather than an actual movie (most recent go-to on that score is easily Logan: that movie was indeed the real deal). The vast majority of the genre is, unfortunately, just tedious fluff; and not even INTERESTING fluff at that. Just thoroughly generic and made to please everyone and offend no one: which is basically anti-art.
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Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 4:38 am

What baffles me about this and so many of your posts is you constantly talk about substance and things of that nature, but you're on a forum of a story that is built around very shallow minded battles and sex jokes. DB has very little in the way of actual substance. It's a fun romp, that's it.

You don't get to define what art is to people, especially not as something so vague and meaningless as offending people.
Last edited by ABED on Mon May 07, 2018 4:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon May 07, 2018 4:46 am

ABED wrote:It seems like your view of "substance" is political. And the phoenix metaphor is not the same as character gaining confidence. And if you've seen the majority of MCU films, why the hell are you this deep into the MCU if you clearly aren't enjoying yourself? What value are you getting from them?

What makes Guardians refreshing is that so much sci-fi these days is grim and gritty. It brings fun and a lot of heart to the table. Who beside you cares that it's not as hard edged as his Troma days? God forbid he stretches. And your view of Homecoming is WAY off base. The whole point of the movie is to show that Peter doesn't need the tricked out suit to be a hero. He is a hero because it's who he is.
Just thoroughly generic and made to please everyone and offend no one: which is basically anti-art.
The movies are made to please the people that make them because they were fans and thought others would enjoy it as well. And art's purpose isn't to offend.

What baffles me about so many of your posts is you constantly talk about substance and things of that nature, but you're on a forum of a story that is built around very shallow minded battles and sex jokes. DB has very little in the way of actual substance. It's a fun romp, that's it.
I think Kunzait is one of those guys who thinks darker means better. That's a pretty shallow view if you ask me.

Personally, I don't need the MCU to be artsy. That's what I have other filmmakers for.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:10 am

ABED wrote:What baffles me about this and so many of your posts is you constantly talk about substance and things of that nature, but you're on a forum of a story that is built around very shallow minded battles and sex jokes. DB has very little in the way of actual substance. It's a fun romp, that's it.
I never claimed DB was anything more than a fun romp. Ever.

But its a fun romp that has a creative identity of its own, while still drawing from a ton of diverse and rich sources. Depth doesn't also necessarily mean depth in terms of subtext or narrative content (though those things are of course wonderful in themselves): it can also mean in terms of craft. Dragon Ball is a dumb story, crafted with a great degree of intelligence and respect for its audience. There's clear artistry at work, and its artistry that's totally unfiltered and unique to the individual creating it in question.

You can tell a dumb, simple story in a smart and well crafted - not to mention distinctive - way: plenty of great works across many mediums provide examples of this, from movies like Predator and Halloween to books like pulp detective noir from Raymond Chandler and Elmore Leonard, and so forth. And that in itself is its own kind depth apart from just "what does this all say about society and the human condition".

The MCU movies, while they're technically slick (and yes, maintain a consistent sense of continuity, though I hardly lend that the same degree of weight that others do), otherwise lack much of that. They're often devoid of personality (though stronger voices like Gunn, Black, and even Whedon's do shine through somewhat, albeit HEAVILY filtered: in which case, why not just stick with their usual work?), and come across as assembly-line and by-committee, and thus as rather soulless.

They drain the identity and personality not only from most of their respective directors, but also from much of the comic book source material they're drawing from (except for Black Panther and The Avengers; but even in the comics the Avengers books never or very rarely ever had much of an identity to distinguish them in the first place). The films are as crass and cynical a piece of corporate product as it gets, and they get mileage out of going for cheap heartstring tugging masquerading as "heart"; a longstanding Disney staple.
ABED wrote:You don't get to define what art is to people, especially not as something so vague and meaningless as offending people.
No, but I think I at least get to define what art is from my own perspective right? Point me to where I "define what art means for other people". Unless you think I need to go out of my way to make sure I constantly add in the qualifier of "IMO" to every single statement I make, instead of presuming that that should go without saying.
8000 Saiyan wrote:I think Kunzait is one of those guys who thinks darker means better. That's a pretty shallow view if you ask me.
Yes. Clearly I'm one of those guys. Which is precisely why:

A) I'm on a Dragon Ball forum

B) I just threw the DC movies under the bus earlier (which have nothing but the utmost pretensions of being dark as shit)

and C) why I own within my movie collection such bastions of somber dreariness as Ferris Bueller's Day Off, The Blues Brothers, Airplane!, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, The Marx Brothers' A Night at the Opera and Duck Soup, Clerks, Half Baked, Groundhog Day, The Big Lebowski, Raising Arizona, A Fish Called Wanda, Dazed and Confused, Friday, The 'Burbs, Kingpin, Dumb & Dumber (yep, more than one Farrelly Brothers movie), the aforementioned Edgar Wright's "Cornetto trilogy" (my favorite of which by far is The World's End: the only one WITHOUT any gore), most of Mel Brooks' filmography, most of Jackie Chan's Hong Kong films, a bunch of Monty Python movies, The Wizard of Oz, Fantasia (*gasp* yes, a Disney movie!), and Back to the Future, and just recently picked up Castle in the Sky and Nausicaa on Blu Ray.

And while I agree that thinking "dark is inherently better" is a pretty shallow view, so too is thinking that "lighter is inherently better", which is a predominant view around much of this place (and a lot of the internet in general the past decade now) that rarely ever gets called out. Context and nuance are what ultimately matters.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon May 07, 2018 6:46 am

sintzu wrote:Boruto is a borefest with little to nothing going on in its plot while star wars is an SJW mess that has somehow managed to split the fanbase even more than the prequels did so if those are what DB will be without Goku then no thank you. I don't mind different kinds of stories like the ones you mentioned but not as the main one, maybe as OVAs, TV Specials or even limited 12 episode shows. They can do whatever they want as long as they keep the main story revolving around Goku and his friends.
Yes I don't really understand why people cite Disney SW as something in favour of DB moving past Goku and co. It doesn't mean it will be good, interesting sure maybe but good? Not necessarily. Disney are on the verge of butchering Solo. We all saw what TLJ did completely destroyed the old cast in favour of this new less interesting boring cast of characters.

If ain't broke don't fix it, there's a reason why Marvel/Disney pussyed out in the latest Avengers movie.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 6:59 am

Fair enough, though I would say the voice of the MCU's is Feige. Instead of the director's voice, they are clearly a reflection of his tastes. It's kinda TV with Feige acting as the showrunner. You may not see it, but I think they have plenty of heart and soul to them. You can see the people who make these films care about what they are doing. It's not to your liking, fine. I don't get cynical from these movies at all. Perhaps it's not to the liking of film purists, but I like the stories they tell. I get where you and others are coming from, I either don't care or don't agree. The MCU is unique. No one before had tried a shared universe like this and it didn't start by corporate mandate. It began because Feige and other producers loved cross overs in the comics and wanted to replicate that in the movies.
which is a predominant view around much of this place (and a lot of the internet in general the past decade now) that rarely ever gets called out. Context and nuance are what ultimately matters.
I agree that context and nuance matter and maybe you're right that lighter is better is a predominant view, but I think it's a pendulum. Sometimes it's darker is better and then we get so much darkness that lightness feels like a nice change of pace and then the pendulum swings the other way.

Back to DB, I hadn't even thought of Battle of Gods as an ending, but with a few changes, I think it could've made for a much more satisfying ending than the original manga. Eventually I would like to see something like that as an ending. I don't think going back to the past of the Saiyans is the way forward. The Saiyans' power never needed and explanation beyond "genetics".
We all saw what TLJ did completely destroyed the old cast in favour of this new less interesting boring cast of characters.
If Star Wars is to continue, they have to create new characters. It's live action and actors age out, die, don't want to do it anymore, have scheduling issues, etc. Dragon Ball can tell stories with whatever characters at whatever age they want.
If ain't broke don't fix it, there's a reason why Marvel/Disney pussyed out in the latest Avengers movie.
What?
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 7:02 am

If a good portion of the plot for new movie is routed in the past, we might actually get a bit of new and interesting DB lore, which then might prompt me to think "Hey, I wish we could see more of this..."

But generally speaking, no, I'm way too invested in the characters and Goku himself to actually want another MC to take his place. Not saying it can't be good- you can make a good story out of anything- but I'm not wishing for anything like that.

Some side-stories would be nice , though.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 7:06 am

Michsi wrote:If a good portion of the plot for new movie is routed in the past, we might actually get a bit of new and interesting DB lore, which then might prompt me to think "Hey, I wish we could see more of this..."

But generally speaking, no, I'm way too invested in the characters and Goku himself to actually want another MC to take his place. Not saying it can't be good, you can make a good story out of anything, but I'm not wishing for anything like that.

Some side-stories would be nice , though.
By making it about the past, it will come off as mostly useless exposition. The Saiyans as a concept existed for years without anyone needing an explanation for their power. I'm not sure what value we're supposed to get from it. It screams "midichlorians".

I might be able to get on board with an occasional short side story. I agree with your point about Goku staying the main character. It's not about marketing, it's about emotional investment.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 7:33 am

ABED wrote:
Michsi wrote:If a good portion of the plot for new movie is routed in the past, we might actually get a bit of new and interesting DB lore, which then might prompt me to think "Hey, I wish we could see more of this..."

But generally speaking, no, I'm way too invested in the characters and Goku himself to actually want another MC to take his place. Not saying it can't be good, you can make a good story out of anything, but I'm not wishing for anything like that.

Some side-stories would be nice , though.
By making it about the past, it will come off as mostly useless exposition. The Saiyans as a concept existed for years without anyone needing an explanation for their power. I'm not sure what value we're supposed to get from it. It screams "midichlorians".

I might be able to get on board with an occasional short side story. I agree with your point about Goku staying the main character. It's not about marketing, it's about emotional investment.

No one said anything about that - it could be about why the U7 Saiyans lost their original planet, it could be why they have tails or why their hair looks the way does. Personally, I don't care what it is about as long as it is interesting and fun. No one needs this to happen, but that's no reason why it shouldn't.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 8:25 am

No one said anything about that - it could be about why the U7 Saiyans lost their original planet, it could be why they have tails or why their hair looks the way does. Personally, I don't care what it is about as long as it is interesting and fun. No one needs this to happen, but that's no reason why it shouldn't.
Not one of those questions were ones anyone asked or what value it brings to the narrative. I don't see what fun there is to be had in finding out why a long dead race has a tail or what the supposed source of their strength is.

To your first point, one of the first announcements about the new movie stated explicitly, "And so, it seems that this film depicts the “origin” of Goku and co.’s strength, the strength of the Saiyans"
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 8:42 am

ABED wrote:
No one said anything about that - it could be about why the U7 Saiyans lost their original planet, it could be why they have tails or why their hair looks the way does. Personally, I don't care what it is about as long as it is interesting and fun. No one needs this to happen, but that's no reason why it shouldn't.
Not one of those questions were ones anyone asked or what value it brings to the narrative. I don't see what fun there is to be had in finding out why a long dead race has a tail or what the supposed source of their strength is.

To your first point, one of the first announcements about the new movie stated explicitly, "And so, it seems that this film depicts the “origin” of Goku and co.’s strength, the strength of the Saiyans"
That was my point- it can be about anything. Doesn't even have to be about saiyans. It can be about why Namekians have antennae. One rule- that it is fun and interesting and I'm on board. I like old school saiyan designs and depictions and so do many others.

I just used the movie as a possible starting point of introducing concepts that might prove interesting to make a story out of. I doubt this 'multi-layered story' will focus with pin-point precision on the origin of their strength and that alone. "New and interesting DB lore" was deliberately vague, because we have no idea what the movie will show- it was just an example.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 8:56 am

What I'm saying is that I don't think it is fun or interesting to delve into things like that, especially since no one asked the question.

I'm not into lore, by and large. I think it has value only insofar as it helps forward a story.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 9:08 am

ABED wrote:What I'm saying is that I don't think it is fun or interesting to delve into things like that, especially since no one asked the question.

I'm not into lore, by and large. I think it has value only insofar as it helps forward a story.
Yeah, but that's your opinion. I don't need or want anything like that either, but if they can make something entertaining out of it, sure. That's all I need- for it to be entertaining. The driving episode was pointless filler that added nothing to the plot but I still love it far more than many plot related episodes.
Personally, I've always wanted to see what the original version of Kami went through to create enough malice that would eventually become King Piccolo or what his actual name was - though I'm pretty sure far less would be interested in that than anything saiyan related.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 9:57 am

I don't neccessarily mind filler, but the driving episode would not be the one I'd point to. Going to the past to answer questions that don't need answering is typically boring. CAN it be interesting? Perhaps, but I'm playing the odds.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon May 07, 2018 10:36 am

ABED wrote:Fair enough, though I would say the voice of the MCU's is Feige. Instead of the director's voice, they are clearly a reflection of his tastes. It's kinda TV with Feige acting as the showrunner. You may not see it, but I think they have plenty of heart and soul to them. You can see the people who make these films care about what they are doing. It's not to your liking, fine. I don't get cynical from these movies at all. Perhaps it's not to the liking of film purists, but I like the stories they tell. I get where you and others are coming from, I either don't care or don't agree. The MCU is unique. No one before had tried a shared universe like this and it didn't start by corporate mandate. It began because Feige and other producers loved cross overs in the comics and wanted to replicate that in the movies.
As an MCU cynic, I'd probably tolerate that universe more if people liked it for what it was: a mostly bland, diet coke version of considerably better stuff made into easily digestible two hour pieces of entertainment with some legitimate high points (like Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron) and gargantuan X3 level turds (Ragnarok and GotG Part Deux).

But nope, every single time it's "DIS IS DUR GRETEZT TING 3VAR!" until the next greatest thing ever comes out 2 months later. I'm especially pissed that there's a growing movement discounting all non-MCU stuff that had legitimate worth like Raimi's Spider-Man or Nolan's Batman as irrelevant or less worthwhile because they don't fit the MCU style.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 10:48 am

If you are a cynic, why are you watching the movies? It's like those of you who watched all 130+ episodes of Super and did nothing but complain about it. Why do that if you don't enjoy it?

This is the internet and so you can find all sorts of opinions and attention spans are seemingly short. I don't really care, nor do I think there is an actual growing movement like the one you described. I like what I like and feel no need to discount the past just because of the new shiny thing. Even if something is better than the older version, I can still appreciate what came before. I don't feel the need to push something down just to raise something else. It's not a race. So even assuming you're right and there are a bunch of people discounting anything not MCU-style, who cares? The movies exist and always will, so whether some people don't care about them, they can't stop them from existing.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:36 pm

ABED wrote:If you are a cynic, why are you watching the movies? It's like those of you who watched all 130+ episodes of Super and did nothing but complain about it. Why do that if you don't enjoy it?

This is the internet and so you can find all sorts of opinions and attention spans are seemingly short. I don't really care, nor do I think there is an actual growing movement like the one you described. I like what I like and feel no need to discount the past just because of the new shiny thing. Even if something is better than the older version, I can still appreciate what came before. I don't feel the need to push something down just to raise something else. It's not a race. So even assuming you're right and there are a bunch of people discounting anything not MCU-style, who cares? The movies exist and always will, so whether some people don't care about them, they can't stop them from existing.
I mostly watch them now for my job, being a movie reviewer for a radio show basically means I have to, particularly since it's only the "big releases" that come out over here in Croatia.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by sintzu » Mon May 07, 2018 1:04 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I'm especially pissed that there's a growing movement discounting all non-MCU stuff that had legitimate worth like Raimi's Spider-Man or Nolan's Batman as irrelevant or less worthwhile because they don't fit the MCU style.
That's what happens whenever something new is out, a group of people will turn on the old after calling it the best thing since Pizza. Once the MCU is over and there's a new big thing, those same people who defend it will turn on it as well.
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Re: Should Dragon Ball move forward from the "Goku Saga"? If yes, what new DB stories would you like to see?

Post by ABED » Mon May 07, 2018 1:16 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ABED wrote:If you are a cynic, why are you watching the movies? It's like those of you who watched all 130+ episodes of Super and did nothing but complain about it. Why do that if you don't enjoy it?

This is the internet and so you can find all sorts of opinions and attention spans are seemingly short. I don't really care, nor do I think there is an actual growing movement like the one you described. I like what I like and feel no need to discount the past just because of the new shiny thing. Even if something is better than the older version, I can still appreciate what came before. I don't feel the need to push something down just to raise something else. It's not a race. So even assuming you're right and there are a bunch of people discounting anything not MCU-style, who cares? The movies exist and always will, so whether some people don't care about them, they can't stop them from existing.
I mostly watch them now for my job, being a movie reviewer for a radio show basically means I have to, particularly since it's only the "big releases" that come out over here in Croatia.
Fair enough.

Anyway, sorry about the digression. The point was tangential, but I really do think that keeping things fresh for the audience and making different choices in both small and large ways is the best way to keep the audience interested over time. Even DB isn't immune to the audience losing interest. I have no idea how popular Super was, but I'd imagine just the time away from DB was a good reason why DB was popular. There's a reason Disney likes to take their movies off the shelf instead of keeping them continually in print. If DB is not going to end, I'd rather it be in the form of 90 minute or less features.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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