Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby emperior » Wed May 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Vijay wrote:
emperior wrote:
Vijay wrote:
I'd appreciate more artistic emphasize on Goku's face & muscle tone. Sorry to say, but even 10 year old could portray an energetic & enthusiastic Goku with minimal effort. The teaser gave shock of my life to the point I imagined Uchiyama Masayuki came back to life teamin up with Ebisawa Yukio cuz the art & animation certainly looked like that.

As casual fan, I am not expecting glossy, glitzy animation. Just use Boo Arc/BOG/ROF design. If movements are stiff, simply loosen-up as in Frieza/Cell Arcs.

Goku in ROF looked great. Handsome, boyish yet charming.

Its just battle sequences lacked tension & coherence one associates with DB battles. Apart from that, action choreography was cool.

Goku in the latest teaser looked like lanky 16 year old teenager suffered TB for 10 years. Especially considering his total loss of muscle mass & jawline

Are you guys blind or what?
First of all, Goku in the teaser doesn't look anything like it was drawn by Ebisawa or Uchiyama. Not at all. And the animation in the trailer is actually very nice.

Second, Goku's posture is perfect in Shintani's design: he is relaxed and well proportioned, while Yamamuro's design had Goku off-balance in a rigid and small body. Honestly it's not even subjective, Shintani's design as far as the body goes is realistic and anatomically accurate while Yamamuro's isn't.
You want stiff movements to loosen up? Then you need animators to ignore the designs. Naoki Tate did so in Super and he got hate by the majority of the ignorant fanbase. Animators who followed the models ended up producing stiff animation just for the sheer fact the models were stiff, so being on-model = being stiff.
As for muscle mass, that's an actual subjective taste. I personally love the less detailed muscle tone like we used to have in Maeda's work and in Toriyama's manga up to the end of Namek arc, but I can understand how some fans are used to the very detailed muscles we saw in later designs.
Surely less detailed muscles mean that animators can provide looser animation, which for me is a huge bonus.

And I'm sorry to say, but a 10 years old can't portray Goku in the way he was portrayed in the movie's teaser. You can't too. Not even with maximum effort. But feel free to try and animate a better teaser than the one Onishi animated for the movie. If a 10 years old can do with minimal effort you should too. Unless you are 9 years old, at which point I would tell you to wait 1 year before trying.

Dude, no need to take this personal. You mark fluid animation, which makes you appreciate TB Goku from teaser (despite Uchiyama & Ebisawa-esque artistic detail) Whats up with your attempt to play mind-games with me using "if 10 year old could, then you should too" like wannabe Youtube keyboard warrior. Chill!

Dont give me Naoki Tate. What bout Yuya Takahashi? Or Shida? Those guys craft splendid animation with excellent artistic appeal.

If all your looking for is fluidity, then I suspect if you've even watched DBZ & its 13 films. Shimanuki Mashahiro, Hizada Kazuya, Shida, Yamamuro & several others focus on intensity of every blow without sacrificing art or details one bit. Now DATS called 1st class animation which SHOULD'VE been incorporated in the upcoming films.

Super's 30 seconds blurring fist "atatatatatata" with lack of details syndrome might have caught-up with some section of fanbase, but consider me as reasonable fanboy who takes everything with a grain of salt.

Goku is a universe-saving fighter. Not L (DN) or Chrollo (HXH). Ripping-off all of his muscle mass gives very emaciated, Christian Bale-esque physique from The Machinist. I'd understand if your talkin about 23rd TB-Saiyan Arc Goku who was still a teenager moving into fatherhood. Its post-Boo/BOG/ROF-era Goku who has faced God-like beings for christ sake...

Look at Goku's face in the teaser. Looks like Ash Ketchum waay back before he even met Pikachu.

Now, dont go calling me "retard" or "hater" just cuz I bash the art in the teaser. I merely pointed out aspects which I wish were improved or at least did not get "regressed" as far as Ash-Ketchum

My SSJ Goku & Future Trunks drawings when I was 10 as Z was on-going in my country would give Shintani a run for his money.

I would like to see your super good drawings that would give Shintani, the man who was personally chosen by Toriyama, a run for his money. You must be Toriyama’s one and only successor if as a 10 years old you were even better than the professional who, I repeat, Toriyama personally chose among other professionals to handle the designs of his movie.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Vijay » Thu May 10, 2018 4:09 am

emperior wrote:
Vijay wrote:
emperior wrote:Are you guys blind or what?
First of all, Goku in the teaser doesn't look anything like it was drawn by Ebisawa or Uchiyama. Not at all. And the animation in the trailer is actually very nice.

Second, Goku's posture is perfect in Shintani's design: he is relaxed and well proportioned, while Yamamuro's design had Goku off-balance in a rigid and small body. Honestly it's not even subjective, Shintani's design as far as the body goes is realistic and anatomically accurate while Yamamuro's isn't.
You want stiff movements to loosen up? Then you need animators to ignore the designs. Naoki Tate did so in Super and he got hate by the majority of the ignorant fanbase. Animators who followed the models ended up producing stiff animation just for the sheer fact the models were stiff, so being on-model = being stiff.
As for muscle mass, that's an actual subjective taste. I personally love the less detailed muscle tone like we used to have in Maeda's work and in Toriyama's manga up to the end of Namek arc, but I can understand how some fans are used to the very detailed muscles we saw in later designs.
Surely less detailed muscles mean that animators can provide looser animation, which for me is a huge bonus.

And I'm sorry to say, but a 10 years old can't portray Goku in the way he was portrayed in the movie's teaser. You can't too. Not even with maximum effort. But feel free to try and animate a better teaser than the one Onishi animated for the movie. If a 10 years old can do with minimal effort you should too. Unless you are 9 years old, at which point I would tell you to wait 1 year before trying.

Dude, no need to take this personal. You mark fluid animation, which makes you appreciate TB Goku from teaser (despite Uchiyama & Ebisawa-esque artistic detail) Whats up with your attempt to play mind-games with me using "if 10 year old could, then you should too" like wannabe Youtube keyboard warrior. Chill!

Dont give me Naoki Tate. What bout Yuya Takahashi? Or Shida? Those guys craft splendid animation with excellent artistic appeal.

If all your looking for is fluidity, then I suspect if you've even watched DBZ & its 13 films. Shimanuki Mashahiro, Hizada Kazuya, Shida, Yamamuro & several others focus on intensity of every blow without sacrificing art or details one bit. Now DATS called 1st class animation which SHOULD'VE been incorporated in the upcoming films.

Super's 30 seconds blurring fist "atatatatatata" with lack of details syndrome might have caught-up with some section of fanbase, but consider me as reasonable fanboy who takes everything with a grain of salt.

Goku is a universe-saving fighter. Not L (DN) or Chrollo (HXH). Ripping-off all of his muscle mass gives very emaciated, Christian Bale-esque physique from The Machinist. I'd understand if your talkin about 23rd TB-Saiyan Arc Goku who was still a teenager moving into fatherhood. Its post-Boo/BOG/ROF-era Goku who has faced God-like beings for christ sake...

Look at Goku's face in the teaser. Looks like Ash Ketchum waay back before he even met Pikachu.

Now, dont go calling me "retard" or "hater" just cuz I bash the art in the teaser. I merely pointed out aspects which I wish were improved or at least did not get "regressed" as far as Ash-Ketchum

My SSJ Goku & Future Trunks drawings when I was 10 as Z was on-going in my country would give Shintani a run for his money.

I would like to see your super good drawings that would give Shintani, the man who was personally chosen by Toriyama, a run for his money. You must be Toriyama’s one and only successor if as a 10 years old you were even better than the professional who, I repeat, Toriyama personally chose among other professionals to handle the designs of his movie.


There are 3 problems

1. I'm 25 year Medical Officer, who has apparently moved from bungalow to condominium to another bungalow since I was 10. Thereby, I'm afraid I wouldnt have the time to dig my past drawings & post them here within my short time contraints apart from posting here & there during my break intervals

2. I'm no computer techie. I dont know how to convert my drawings via snapping using my Iphone then post them here. I've tried several times even to post my fav clips/screen-shots for topics as Favourite Art/Drawings/Animator to no avail.

3. I've said before. I'm a reasonable DB fanboy who takes everthing with a grain of salt. Just cuz somethin is preferred or recommended by original author/founder, it does NOT automatically warrant every homo sapien to acknowledge & glorify it to stratospherical heights. DB Super for instance. Likewise, I dont buy a mediocre output just cuz it was drawn by Toriyama's fav boi, Shintani. I repeat myself. TOEI has multiple animators who could provide smooth, fluid animation WITHOUT sacrificing art making Goku look like Ash Ketchum.

I'd appreciate if you bring more context to your arguements to counter my points (artistis details sacrificed for the sake of movement fluidity) instead of clinging to my 10 year-old drawings which I completed about 15 years ago

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Kakarotto92 » Thu May 10, 2018 4:20 pm

Late Z Yamamuro looks perfect, I wonder why they couldn't just stick to this design instead of keep re-designing for every new show/movie/special that comes out. All they needed to do is trace Yamamuro 90's drawings to a modern computer and then update the colors.

It's not like Goku has aged in any of his anime appearances in the last 20 years, given that they all happen in the same time period of DB's story (other than the "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" remake). Same for his outfit which, other than in RoF, has also remained the same.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby JacobYBM » Thu May 10, 2018 8:22 pm

Kakarotto92 wrote:Late Z Yamamuro looks perfect, I wonder why they couldn't just stick to this design instead of keep re-designing for every new show/movie/special that comes out. All they needed to do is trace Yamamuro 90's drawings to a modern computer and then update the colors.

It's not like Goku has aged in any of his anime appearances in the last 20 years, given that they all happen in the same time period of DB's story (other than the "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" remake). Same for his outfit which, other than in RoF, has also remained the same.


Typically, you need a new design to keep merchandise fresh but also so that the main illustrator for the series can copy that style somewhat. Yamamuro can draw his old style any more.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Thanos » Fri May 11, 2018 12:13 am

I like Yamamuro's just fine. My only issue with it, really, is the over-digitization. Shintani's, on the other hand, looks like hot ass. His face is very off-model, and he looks too young and round. Goku is supposed to be pushing 50 at this point. That doesn't look like a man with a granddaughter. I know Saiyans don't really age like that, but he looks like end-of-Dragon Ball, late teenage Goku. I appreciate it for it's fluid, organic animation though. If Shintani could just emulation Yamamuro but keep the hand-drawn, fluid animation that would be great.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Vijay » Fri May 11, 2018 12:37 am

Thanos wrote:I like Yamamuro's just fine. My only issue with it, really, is the over-digitization. Shintani's, on the other hand, looks like hot ass. His face is very off-model, and he looks too young and round. Goku is supposed to be pushing 50 at this point. That doesn't look like a man with a granddaughter. I know Saiyans don't really age like that, but he looks like end-of-Dragon Ball, late teenage Goku. I appreciate it for it's fluid, organic animation though. If Shintani could just emulation Yamamuro but keep the hand-drawn, fluid animation that would be great.

Dude...everything from your username to your post of Goku pushing 50...hail Thanos!

Now, someone would bring-up Vegeta's line of "Saiyans stay young cuz they thrive in battles" backing claims as to why Goku looks young in teaser.

There's difference to look young & looking sick/haggard.

Yamamuro's design for Goku in Cell & Boo Arc looks YOUNG. Boyish. Charming.

Shintani (guy responsible for Ash-esque Goku in teaser) looks like teenager who underwent 3 months of intensive chemotheraphy

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby JazzMazz » Thu May 17, 2018 8:35 am

Vijay wrote:
Thanos wrote:I like Yamamuro's just fine. My only issue with it, really, is the over-digitization. Shintani's, on the other hand, looks like hot ass. His face is very off-model, and he looks too young and round. Goku is supposed to be pushing 50 at this point. That doesn't look like a man with a granddaughter. I know Saiyans don't really age like that, but he looks like end-of-Dragon Ball, late teenage Goku. I appreciate it for it's fluid, organic animation though. If Shintani could just emulation Yamamuro but keep the hand-drawn, fluid animation that would be great.

Dude...everything from your username to your post of Goku pushing 50...hail Thanos!

Now, someone would bring-up Vegeta's line of "Saiyans stay young cuz they thrive in battles" backing claims as to why Goku looks young in teaser.

There's difference to look young & looking sick/haggard.

Yamamuro's design for Goku in Cell & Boo Arc looks YOUNG. Boyish. Charming.

Shintani (guy responsible for Ash-esque Goku in teaser) looks like teenager who underwent 3 months of intensive chemotheraphy

What do you think of the final polished designs?

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Vijay » Thu May 17, 2018 11:12 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Vijay wrote:
Thanos wrote:I like Yamamuro's just fine. My only issue with it, really, is the over-digitization. Shintani's, on the other hand, looks like hot ass. His face is very off-model, and he looks too young and round. Goku is supposed to be pushing 50 at this point. That doesn't look like a man with a granddaughter. I know Saiyans don't really age like that, but he looks like end-of-Dragon Ball, late teenage Goku. I appreciate it for it's fluid, organic animation though. If Shintani could just emulation Yamamuro but keep the hand-drawn, fluid animation that would be great.

Dude...everything from your username to your post of Goku pushing 50...hail Thanos!

Now, someone would bring-up Vegeta's line of "Saiyans stay young cuz they thrive in battles" backing claims as to why Goku looks young in teaser.

There's difference to look young & looking sick/haggard.

Yamamuro's design for Goku in Cell & Boo Arc looks YOUNG. Boyish. Charming.

Shintani (guy responsible for Ash-esque Goku in teaser) looks like teenager who underwent 3 months of intensive chemotheraphy

What do you think of the final polished designs?

Its very kind of you to post & actually ask my opinion on the design sir.
I get very strong Saiyan~Namek~Frieza Arc character design impression. Pretty sure Mr. Shintani must've took Toriyama's manga panels as his source of inspiration

Then again...lack of details. We are waay past 1989~1991 era. Especially considering the monstrous Box Office revenue & ROI both Battle of Gods & Ressurection of Frieza would signify significantly higher budget to be incorporated into this upcoming project

Which based on the lack (NOT saying ABSENCE) of details of face & physical body proportion seems to say otherwise

I can get origin of Yamoshi is perhaps what prompted TOEI to revert back to Saiyan~Frieza Arc timeline artistry. Still, that does not excuse them from providing specific attention to Goku & Veggie's nose, jawline, posture which animators like Maeda, Masaki Sato, Shimanuki Mashashiro & Hizada Kazuya did even back in the Saiyan/Namek/Frieza Arc days

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby emperior » Thu May 17, 2018 1:21 pm

Vijay wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Vijay wrote:Dude...everything from your username to your post of Goku pushing 50...hail Thanos!

Now, someone would bring-up Vegeta's line of "Saiyans stay young cuz they thrive in battles" backing claims as to why Goku looks young in teaser.

There's difference to look young & looking sick/haggard.

Yamamuro's design for Goku in Cell & Boo Arc looks YOUNG. Boyish. Charming.

Shintani (guy responsible for Ash-esque Goku in teaser) looks like teenager who underwent 3 months of intensive chemotheraphy

What do you think of the final polished designs?

Its very kind of you to post & actually ask my opinion on the design sir.
I get very strong Saiyan~Namek~Frieza Arc character design impression. Pretty sure Mr. Shintani must've took Toriyama's manga panels as his source of inspiration

Then again...lack of details. We are waay past 1989~1991 era. Especially considering the monstrous Box Office revenue & ROI both Battle of Gods & Ressurection of Frieza would signify significantly higher budget to be incorporated into this upcoming project

Which based on the lack (NOT saying ABSENCE) of details of face & physical body proportion seems to say otherwise

I can get origin of Yamoshi is perhaps what prompted TOEI to revert back to Saiyan~Frieza Arc timeline artistry. Still, that does not excuse them from providing specific attention to Goku & Veggie's nose, jawline, posture which animators like Maeda, Masaki Sato, Shimanuki Mashashiro & Hizada Kazuya did even back in the Saiyan/Namek/Frieza Arc days

The posture in these designs is perfect. The same can’t be said for the designs of BoG and RoF. Considering how you can’t see the difference, let me show you:

Image

Image

As for the lack of details, that was probably exactly what made the 90s era designs work, and Toriyama himself wanted his characters to look as simple as possible to focus on action and speed rather than art.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby JazzMazz » Fri May 18, 2018 12:38 am

With this new reference, how do people believe the new designs stack up with the others from previous era's?

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Vijay » Fri May 18, 2018 2:50 am

emperior wrote:
Vijay wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:What do you think of the final polished designs?

Its very kind of you to post & actually ask my opinion on the design sir.
I get very strong Saiyan~Namek~Frieza Arc character design impression. Pretty sure Mr. Shintani must've took Toriyama's manga panels as his source of inspiration

Then again...lack of details. We are waay past 1989~1991 era. Especially considering the monstrous Box Office revenue & ROI both Battle of Gods & Ressurection of Frieza would signify significantly higher budget to be incorporated into this upcoming project

Which based on the lack (NOT saying ABSENCE) of details of face & physical body proportion seems to say otherwise

I can get origin of Yamoshi is perhaps what prompted TOEI to revert back to Saiyan~Frieza Arc timeline artistry. Still, that does not excuse them from providing specific attention to Goku & Veggie's nose, jawline, posture which animators like Maeda, Masaki Sato, Shimanuki Mashashiro & Hizada Kazuya did even back in the Saiyan/Namek/Frieza Arc days

The posture in these designs is perfect. The same can’t be said for the designs of BoG and RoF. Considering how you can’t see the difference, let me show you:

Image

Image

As for the lack of details, that was probably exactly what made the 90s era designs work, and Toriyama himself wanted his characters to look as simple as possible to focus on action and speed rather than art.

Bro, I can see the difference real fine & it was the very reason behind you replyin me

C'mon. You speak on Toriyama's behalf as his mouthpiece claiming he wants his character to looks simple....

Which isnt true. Toriyama's artsyle changed drastically over the course of time with his abandoning rounded, overarching style of early DB-era into sharper, bold & defined artstyle as of Frieza Saga onwards, becoming strikingly evident in Cell & Boo Arc

As I said, 90's era is 90's era. Not post Boo/GT/BOG/Super/ROF era.

Something even Toriyama realized back in 90's hence opted to adapt himself with much sharper & angular designs that emphasizes on facial expressions, hair bangs/strands, biceps/triceps & even chi blasts that becamed significantly detailed. Take a look at 21st TB Goku's Kamehameha to 20X Kaioken Kamehameha in Frieza Arc. Holy crap...talk about the artistic progression

Even 90's era have much sophisticated & intricate character designs whenever Masaki Sato, Shinamuki & Hizada Kazuya were providing key-animations.

Just look at 2 Goku designs you've posted & you tell me which one looks like a fighter. I could ask you one better. Which one is the Goku you've watched past 20 years, grown to love & wish to see in action?

A perfectly sculpted, charming & confident right one?

Or timid, lanky dude who looks right off the bat doomed to fly several meters away when even sneezed by Yamoshi/foe on the left?

As I said, this is not bout preferences. Its about the level dedication & emphasize on arts as well as animation instead of sacrificing former for the sake of latter

In fact, I'd understand if its lack of budget on TOEI behalf as they're bout to recover frm financial crisis pre-Kai era

Its revival of sorts for DragonBall franchise & TOEI after gigantic box office smash of BOG & ROF

Hence, there should be no compromises whatsoever when it boils down to art department

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby mute_proxy » Fri May 18, 2018 4:39 am

Love the new designs, they all seem "organic" in comparison to the regular stiff, "polished", banana haired style. Regardless of how much detail (or lack of) Toriyama included in his work, it always felt organic, and this is it. Reminds me of the 2008 special too which I liked a lot.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Vijay » Fri May 18, 2018 4:56 am

mute_proxy wrote:Love the new designs, they all seem "organic" in comparison to the regular stiff, "polished", banana haired style. Regardless of how much detail (or lack of) Toriyama included in his work, it always felt organic, and this is it. Reminds me of the 2008 special too which I liked a lot.

Did you meant "pineapple" hairstyle? Or did I got it wrong?

Your entitled to your opinion. I'm cool with it

I dont particularly find "organic" & "non-organic" from anime. Or entertainment in general. They're fictional. At very least, there should be at least 1% fabricated/fake/plastic. Which I'm okay with.

I think you meant the grounded & raw design which was prevalent in early Z series when you said organic.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby mute_proxy » Fri May 18, 2018 5:19 am

Anyone know who did this sheet? Was it Nakatsuru from GT also? Looks a bit different from his GT kid Goku

Image

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby JazzMazz » Fri May 18, 2018 7:55 am

Vijay wrote:
emperior wrote:
Vijay wrote:Its very kind of you to post & actually ask my opinion on the design sir.
I get very strong Saiyan~Namek~Frieza Arc character design impression. Pretty sure Mr. Shintani must've took Toriyama's manga panels as his source of inspiration

Then again...lack of details. We are waay past 1989~1991 era. Especially considering the monstrous Box Office revenue & ROI both Battle of Gods & Ressurection of Frieza would signify significantly higher budget to be incorporated into this upcoming project

Which based on the lack (NOT saying ABSENCE) of details of face & physical body proportion seems to say otherwise

I can get origin of Yamoshi is perhaps what prompted TOEI to revert back to Saiyan~Frieza Arc timeline artistry. Still, that does not excuse them from providing specific attention to Goku & Veggie's nose, jawline, posture which animators like Maeda, Masaki Sato, Shimanuki Mashashiro & Hizada Kazuya did even back in the Saiyan/Namek/Frieza Arc days

The posture in these designs is perfect. The same can’t be said for the designs of BoG and RoF. Considering how you can’t see the difference, let me show you:

Image

Image

As for the lack of details, that was probably exactly what made the 90s era designs work, and Toriyama himself wanted his characters to look as simple as possible to focus on action and speed rather than art.

Bro, I can see the difference real fine & it was the very reason behind you replyin me

C'mon. You speak on Toriyama's behalf as his mouthpiece claiming he wants his character to looks simple....

Which isnt true. Toriyama's artsyle changed drastically over the course of time with his abandoning rounded, overarching style of early DB-era into sharper, bold & defined artstyle as of Frieza Saga onwards, becoming strikingly evident in Cell & Boo Arc

As I said, 90's era is 90's era. Not post Boo/GT/BOG/Super/ROF era.

Something even Toriyama realized back in 90's hence opted to adapt himself with much sharper & angular designs that emphasizes on facial expressions, hair bangs/strands, biceps/triceps & even chi blasts that becamed significantly detailed. Take a look at 21st TB Goku's Kamehameha to 20X Kaioken Kamehameha in Frieza Arc. Holy crap...talk about the artistic progression

Even 90's era have much sophisticated & intricate character designs whenever Masaki Sato, Shinamuki & Hizada Kazuya were providing key-animations.

Just look at 2 Goku designs you've posted & you tell me which one looks like a fighter. I could ask you one better. Which one is the Goku you've watched past 20 years, grown to love & wish to see in action?

A perfectly sculpted, charming & confident right one?

Or timid, lanky dude who looks right off the bat doomed to fly several meters away when even sneezed by Yamoshi/foe on the left?

As I said, this is not bout preferences. Its about the level dedication & emphasize on arts as well as animation instead of sacrificing former for the sake of latter

In fact, I'd understand if its lack of budget on TOEI behalf as they're bout to recover frm financial crisis pre-Kai era

Its revival of sorts for DragonBall franchise & TOEI after gigantic box office smash of BOG & ROF

Hence, there should be no compromises whatsoever when it boils down to art department

Well, The new ones. Easily.

In fact, I would say your description for Yamamuro's designs as perfectly sculpted, charming and confident, are far more applicable to Shintani's designs, while your description of Shintani's designs as a timid, lanky dude who looks right off the bat doomed to fly several meters away when even sneezed by Yamoshi/foe?

I say this, because unlike Shintani's designs, which have a natural posture and muscle tone befitting of a martial artist. The Shintani Goku also has this nice weight distribution, where has heavily weighted at the top, and has a nice natural weight distribution as you head down his body. In comparison, Yamamuro's designs are rigid as a rock to the point it looks lifeless and mechanical. I think this is a big part of why Shintani was chosen, as his general knowledge of weight distribution is far clearer than Yamamuro's, and that was specifically something that Toriyama looking for when picking the character designer.



Also, Goku's clothing in the new design is far better than Yamamuro's. The clothing hangs naturally off his body, and the folds in his paints make sense as there is a clearly illustrated source for them. Yamamuro's clothing on the other hand, is stupidly stiff and angular, and the folds in Goku's make literally no coherent sense what-so-ever.

Finally, Shintani's Goku is far more lively than Yamamuro's. For one, Shintani in the recent design did a great job of fixing the overly boxy and square feel of Yamamuro's faces, by squishing the head slightly to ensure true to DB feature placement, and also adversely made the neck thinner, which does a good job of making him look my spryly. I think a big improvement, is the removal of the needless highlight and shading in the hair, as well as the ugly shading on Goku's face that did more to accentuate the flatness of the character, than to give it any sort of depth.

You said "Its about the level dedication & emphasize on arts as well as animation instead of sacrificing former for the sake of latter", and to that I can say safely that these designs come through in both departments exponentially better than Yamamuro's designs. There are no real financial struggles behind the designs, they were chosen, because they were believed to be the best suited for the series and its easy to see why. On a purely technical level, they are far more competently put together.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby Ajay » Fri May 18, 2018 8:02 am

mute_proxy wrote:Anyone know who did this sheet? Was it Nakatsuru from GT also? Looks a bit different from his GT kid Goku




This is Tadayoshi Yamamuro's Goku for The Path to Power movie. :thumbup:
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby majinwarman » Fri May 18, 2018 9:04 am

Ajay wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:Anyone know who did this sheet? Was it Nakatsuru from GT also? Looks a bit different from his GT kid Goku




This is Tadayoshi Yamamuro's Goku for The Path to Power movie. :thumbup:

I did not know that! Thank you for the information.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby emperior » Fri May 18, 2018 9:50 am

Vijay wrote:Bro, I can see the difference real fine & it was the very reason behind you replyin me

C'mon. You speak on Toriyama's behalf as his mouthpiece claiming he wants his character to looks simple....

Which isnt true. Toriyama's artsyle changed drastically over the course of time with his abandoning rounded, overarching style of early DB-era into sharper, bold & defined artstyle as of Frieza Saga onwards, becoming strikingly evident in Cell & Boo Arc

As I said, 90's era is 90's era. Not post Boo/GT/BOG/Super/ROF era.

Something even Toriyama realized back in 90's hence opted to adapt himself with much sharper & angular designs that emphasizes on facial expressions, hair bangs/strands, biceps/triceps & even chi blasts that becamed significantly detailed. Take a look at 21st TB Goku's Kamehameha to 20X Kaioken Kamehameha in Frieza Arc. Holy crap...talk about the artistic progression

Even 90's era have much sophisticated & intricate character designs whenever Masaki Sato, Shinamuki & Hizada Kazuya were providing key-animations.

Just look at 2 Goku designs you've posted & you tell me which one looks like a fighter. I could ask you one better. Which one is the Goku you've watched past 20 years, grown to love & wish to see in action?

A perfectly sculpted, charming & confident right one?

Or timid, lanky dude who looks right off the bat doomed to fly several meters away when even sneezed by Yamoshi/foe on the left?

As I said, this is not bout preferences. Its about the level dedication & emphasize on arts as well as animation instead of sacrificing former for the sake of latter

In fact, I'd understand if its lack of budget on TOEI behalf as they're bout to recover frm financial crisis pre-Kai era

Its revival of sorts for DragonBall franchise & TOEI after gigantic box office smash of BOG & ROF

Hence, there should be no compromises whatsoever when it boils down to art department

I'm not speaking on Toriyama's behalf, I'm just quoting his own words. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... t-edition/
Read it for yourself.
Toriyama's art got more and more angular to emphasize speed, true, but I never claimed otherwise so go back and re-read my post too.
It's also not like these designs are incredibly round, and even if they were animators could always draw the characters more angular if that gives a better sense of speed in a battle.

As for your question, I will tell you that to me the one who looks like a fighter is the one with the correct posture, correct body proportions and relaxed look. The one wearing the orange gi, you know. That's what a martial artist looks like, unlike the incredibly stiff guy wearing a counterfeit red gi and a glued-in hair wig that resembles Goku's hair if it weren't for those highlights and the fourth bang on the left-side. Also the one who looks like he would take a few seconds to move his rigid body around, the one who actually looks lanky. You said it right: perfectly sculpted. Like a damn statue. And what do statues do? Nothing. They stay still, they can't move.
Shintani's Goku gives out the exact idea of Goku without even speaking or moving. He looks confident yet naive. He looks mobile, flexible and relaxed, as Goku typically is, but he still gives out the idea of the dude who can move at lighting fast speeds in a instant and fuck you up with a flurry of punches and kicks you wouldn't see.

And please, stop writing such uninformed bullshit such as the designs being this way because of low budget. There's no compromise in art. We got these kind of designs because the frigging creator of the serie wanted them to be like this, and he personally chose Shintani to deliver them.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby mute_proxy » Fri May 18, 2018 10:08 am

Ajay wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:Anyone know who did this sheet? Was it Nakatsuru from GT also? Looks a bit different from his GT kid Goku




This is Tadayoshi Yamamuro's Goku for The Path to Power movie. :thumbup:


Ahh... so he was doing DB related stuff during the GT era too. Thanks :thumbup:

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Postby JacobYBM » Fri May 18, 2018 11:12 am

JazzMazz wrote:With this new reference, how do people believe the new designs stack up with the others from previous era's?


Shintani's design beats the hell out of the last four character models that Yamamuro has drawn. Relaxed posture and clothing that looks natural. It's amazing. I wish we had Hayashi Yuuki's design for comparison.
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