I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- DBZAOTA482
- Banned
- Posts: 6995
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
- Contact:
I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Whenever I hear fans praise Gohan, it's always because of his powers never his personality or whatnot... in fact, when his real character shines through (like the Gt. Saiyaman stuff) they complain about it. They might as well just come out to say his character is shit and roll with it.
Even Broly fans are less fake- at least they're willing to admit the character they love sucks.
Even Broly fans are less fake- at least they're willing to admit the character they love sucks.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Gohan is fine.
The reason you hear people talk so much about his power is because that's what the original story focused on and what people want to see return. But people also talk a lot about his personality, especially since it's so different from Goku's- which has always been the point of his character.
The reason you hear people talk so much about his power is because that's what the original story focused on and what people want to see return. But people also talk a lot about his personality, especially since it's so different from Goku's- which has always been the point of his character.
- TheZFighter
- Regular
- Posts: 538
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:40 am
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
I wouldn't call Gohan a "terrible character" by any means.
I have a lot more time for Gohan post-Elder Kai's potential unlock than I ever did before that moment.
I have a lot more time for Gohan post-Elder Kai's potential unlock than I ever did before that moment.
Z-Fighters fan.
Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.
Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Gohan was awesome, especially on Namek (best Gohan btw) then the Cell Games arrived and made me not like him as much. Then the Majin Buu Saga arrived and I got interested in him again with his focus in high school and trying to live a normal life, it was fresh and I enjoyed him. Then he jobbed to Super Buu, got absorbed aaaaand...well I haven't cared about him since.
I understand why people like Gohan the most when he's a strong badass, it's a shonen battle manga, it's to be expected. But yes, I agree that a lot of fans kind of cling to only one element, but I can't blame them for focusing on it, when the series itself always shoves in comments and moments about Gohan potentially being the strongest, and turning into a warrior again, only to be pushed back into the peanut gallery.
I understand why people like Gohan the most when he's a strong badass, it's a shonen battle manga, it's to be expected. But yes, I agree that a lot of fans kind of cling to only one element, but I can't blame them for focusing on it, when the series itself always shoves in comments and moments about Gohan potentially being the strongest, and turning into a warrior again, only to be pushed back into the peanut gallery.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.
Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."
Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Gohan is probably the most normal and well adjusted character in the franchise. He has a normal family life and a job. I'd honestly love to see a slice of life Dragon Ball spin off featuring Gohan.
Looking for these rare items/information:
Any information or recordings pertaining to Dragon Ball Z's syndicated run on WAWB
Any information regarding the stations that carried the origin Dragon Ball in the USA
Dragon Box (any deals would be nice)
Shonen Jumps with Dragon Ball in them
Any information or recordings pertaining to Dragon Ball Z's syndicated run on WAWB
Any information regarding the stations that carried the origin Dragon Ball in the USA
Dragon Box (any deals would be nice)
Shonen Jumps with Dragon Ball in them
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm
- Location: Zambia, Southern Africa
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
He's not terrible. He's just ordinary, which is okay.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
I've always liked Gohan for both his personality and his powers. He went from being a scared kid to one of the bravest characters in the series while he was still 5 years old. A perfect example is his fight with Recoome where he fought to the bitter end and got his neck broken trying to save his friends. He's also one of the least selfish characters in the series who's always got the safety of his friends and family as his main priority. If that's not a likeable character then I don't know what is.
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17542
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
We must read vastly different takes from vastly different types of people.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Whenever I hear fans praise Gohan, it's always because of his powers never his personality or whatnot
Which is great!
Gohan is fine.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- MozillaVulpix
- Regular
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:01 pm
- Contact:
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
I don't get why people make this so black-and-white. Wanting Gohan to fight and be competent when fighting is fine. Wanting him to have a happy life is fine. Wanting him to somehow get both at the same time is fine. The only actual dumb expectation is thinking he's going to become the main character or surpass everyone in strength for an extended period of time because he did that those few times in the 90's.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
https://www.youtube.com/c/MozillaVulpix
https://www.youtube.com/c/MozillaVulpix
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Ho boi...
Your 20 years late to come up with this topic
I'll be frank. Not Gohan-hater. I actually admire his growth in Saiyan~Cell Arc. Even his Great Saiyaman Arc was cool giving him distinct identity as college student, protector of Satan City, Videl's BF etc
Its just certain section of his fanbase overpowering SSJ2 Kid Gohan & Mystic/Ultimate Gohan making me to detest the character.
Besides, I hated "character degradation" in GT & subsequently in Super. Hardly someone I'd call Goku's son or even Z fighter. Dude's became Yamcha & its not a good thing at all
Your 20 years late to come up with this topic
I'll be frank. Not Gohan-hater. I actually admire his growth in Saiyan~Cell Arc. Even his Great Saiyaman Arc was cool giving him distinct identity as college student, protector of Satan City, Videl's BF etc
Its just certain section of his fanbase overpowering SSJ2 Kid Gohan & Mystic/Ultimate Gohan making me to detest the character.
Besides, I hated "character degradation" in GT & subsequently in Super. Hardly someone I'd call Goku's son or even Z fighter. Dude's became Yamcha & its not a good thing at all
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20276
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
I don't mind that he embraced the civilian life. I simply don't think he's well suited to be the main character and forcing him into it as though it was the organic conclusion for his arc feels wrong.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Yes, he's terrible. Toriyama didn't know what to do with him in the original run and Toei doesn't know what to do with him now. As such, he keeps going throgh the same arc, learning the same lessons and never actually developing as a character.
- TrunksTrevelyan0064
- Patreon Supporter
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 9:55 am
- Location: The Netherlands
- Contact:
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
People complaining that a character doesn't act exactly the way they think they want does not mean that character is terrible.
I don't think it's a healthy mindset to have eyes only for what a character is ("What's his battle power?" "What forms does he have?" "Who can he beat?") and ignore who that character is (In Gohan's case, someone who was thrust into a world of fighting and tries to go along with it, while deep down yearning for a quiet, peaceful life, and struggling to find a good balance between those two lifestyles).
The fact that Gohan is a reluctant fighter, amidst so many other characters who do live for battle, adds an interesting dynamic to Dragon Ball if you ask me.
I don't think it's a healthy mindset to have eyes only for what a character is ("What's his battle power?" "What forms does he have?" "Who can he beat?") and ignore who that character is (In Gohan's case, someone who was thrust into a world of fighting and tries to go along with it, while deep down yearning for a quiet, peaceful life, and struggling to find a good balance between those two lifestyles).
The fact that Gohan is a reluctant fighter, amidst so many other characters who do live for battle, adds an interesting dynamic to Dragon Ball if you ask me.
Usually goes by "Kevtrev" elsewhere online.
Draws comics that may or may not have been inspired by Akira Toriyama's amazing manga-making skills.
Draws comics that may or may not have been inspired by Akira Toriyama's amazing manga-making skills.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
DBZAOTA482 wrote:Whenever I hear fans praise Gohan, it's always because of his powers never his personality or whatnot... in fact, when his real character shines through (like the Gt. Saiyaman stuff) they complain about it. They might as well just come out to say his character is shit and roll with it.
Even Broly fans are less fake- at least they're willing to admit the character they love sucks.
So, you know, maybe you could have explained why you think Gohan is a terrible character.
But yeah, Gohan is fine. And rewatching DBZ, I really like how the show differentiates Gohan's personality to Goku when he was a kid.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
I wouldn't go as far as to call him terrible, but I have to agree with this
and that really ruins him for me. His character is fine as it is, and retreading old character development just doesn't work well. Honestly I don't know if he even needs development at this point, plenty of characters in Dragon Ball don't develop much, so him learning his lessons over and over is just a detriment to his character.Doctor. wrote:As such, he keeps going throgh the same arc, learning the same lessons and never actually developing as a character.
Probably Kanzenshuu's biggest Bulla fangirl. Current avatar: DBU Bulla as Sailor Princess Sadala, based on Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance
Dragon Ball Ultimate - 74 out of 150 chapters complete
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Action Blue - link
Sailor Moon: Mindful of Love - link | Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance - link
Dragon Ball Ultimate - 74 out of 150 chapters complete
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Action Blue - link
Sailor Moon: Mindful of Love - link | Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance - link
- Torturephile
- Regular
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 pm
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
He's a mixed bag. I gave up on him being a fighter character once he let Gotenks have another go with Super Buu, ultimately resulting in the enemy getting stronger just like with Cell. It seemed that a battle arc cycle was formed for Gohan just like with Vegeta, first he's weak but with endless amounts of hidden potential, then something triggers his potential, allowing him to overpower the enemy, then he gets cocky and screws up, resulting in said enemy hacking him into pieces. Then in Super, he goes through his whole fighter development again during the ToP after spending the whole series being a non-fighter. He basically goes Ash Ketchum every new arc since the Buu saga.
But his non-battle stuff? That's were he's at for me, so I must be the opposite of those who like him best just when he's a "badass" in a fight. I find the high school episodes at the beginning of the Buu saga to be quite fun, I like the similarities and differences between his personality and that of his dad's, and I think he's one of the few, if not the only character, who more or less has gotten a grasp of finding a balance of having a normal, civilian life and being a fighter. Others just stick to fighting like Vegeta, and others gave up on fighting like Yamcha.
But his non-battle stuff? That's were he's at for me, so I must be the opposite of those who like him best just when he's a "badass" in a fight. I find the high school episodes at the beginning of the Buu saga to be quite fun, I like the similarities and differences between his personality and that of his dad's, and I think he's one of the few, if not the only character, who more or less has gotten a grasp of finding a balance of having a normal, civilian life and being a fighter. Others just stick to fighting like Vegeta, and others gave up on fighting like Yamcha.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:The duality of man.Torturephile wrote:hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.The fandom in a nutshell.namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Every character is terrible.
I think Gohan was always at his best when he was just barely able to scrape by. He was a kid who was trapped in the middle of fights between monsters of men, and I think it was a welcome change for him to struggle in most of his fights. The fact that he got so much weaker inbetween Cell and Buu made a lot of sense to me, and I was excited to see what sort of role he'd play due to still being the underdog. If there were a point where I'd say Gohan got weaker in writing, it was when he got his old guy powerup. It doesn't feel like the same person when he's acting all cocky toward Super Buu, and the fact that he doesn't even really seem like he's got the upper hand before he loses anyway just made it confusing. I would have much preferred the arc to be about Gohan, and maybe even Videl alongside him having to deal with the fact that he's not strong enough to face him -- have Goku and the others be the distraction or time-killers while he gets himself to the strength needed to conquer the wall that is Buu.
That said, while I'm disappointed with Gohan's lack of performance in the Buu arc, I think it's silly for anyone who expects or believes it'd be a good decision to suddenly make him an unkillable god in Super. I'd much rather see the character have to face tons of changes and be forced to grow in strength, because that's what it always took before then. Gohan doesn't like fighting. He never wanted to be a fighter, and I can't fault the show for continuing to have him actually be the person he wanted to be.
Really my problem is that most of the non-fighters in Dragon Ball are boring, or don't have much of a way to be relevant in a series that's all about the battles at this point. But that's a much larger issue, and acting like it's Gohan-specific would just be misrepresenting it.
So in short, I wish Gohan (and Videl) played a bigger role in the Buu saga, but he's not any more "terrible" than every single other character that doesn't do anything anymore.
I think Gohan was always at his best when he was just barely able to scrape by. He was a kid who was trapped in the middle of fights between monsters of men, and I think it was a welcome change for him to struggle in most of his fights. The fact that he got so much weaker inbetween Cell and Buu made a lot of sense to me, and I was excited to see what sort of role he'd play due to still being the underdog. If there were a point where I'd say Gohan got weaker in writing, it was when he got his old guy powerup. It doesn't feel like the same person when he's acting all cocky toward Super Buu, and the fact that he doesn't even really seem like he's got the upper hand before he loses anyway just made it confusing. I would have much preferred the arc to be about Gohan, and maybe even Videl alongside him having to deal with the fact that he's not strong enough to face him -- have Goku and the others be the distraction or time-killers while he gets himself to the strength needed to conquer the wall that is Buu.
That said, while I'm disappointed with Gohan's lack of performance in the Buu arc, I think it's silly for anyone who expects or believes it'd be a good decision to suddenly make him an unkillable god in Super. I'd much rather see the character have to face tons of changes and be forced to grow in strength, because that's what it always took before then. Gohan doesn't like fighting. He never wanted to be a fighter, and I can't fault the show for continuing to have him actually be the person he wanted to be.
Really my problem is that most of the non-fighters in Dragon Ball are boring, or don't have much of a way to be relevant in a series that's all about the battles at this point. But that's a much larger issue, and acting like it's Gohan-specific would just be misrepresenting it.
So in short, I wish Gohan (and Videl) played a bigger role in the Buu saga, but he's not any more "terrible" than every single other character that doesn't do anything anymore.
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
A horrible character? No. A horribly utilized character? Yes. The main problem, which a lot of people here have touched on, is that the writers can’t decide what to do with him.
When he’s first introduced, we’re shown his personality varies immensely from his father’s but once Piccolo thrusts him into training, they seem to be making him out to be a combination of Goku and Piccolo’s fighting styles and someone who may not thrust for battle but will take it upon themselves to protect other people.
If they had kept going with this character development, it likely would have been awesome. The manga and anime really were pushing the “take the mantle from the father” angle but when that doesn’t come to fruition, all that development kind of...fizzles away. I still feel like the Gohan prior to the Cell Games and the Gohan after the 7 year gap feel like completely different characters. It doesn’t seem to mesh up with his earlier personality which is very jarring.
In my experience, it isn’t necessarily that Gohan isn’t a “bad ass” that get people frustrated and upset, it’s that the narrative had set him up since the beginning to be building towards following in the footsteps of the main hero and when that is dropped, out of nowhere, it pulls out some passionate feelings. Here’s a character we’ve been watching develop and grow with the very clear indication he’ll be, at minimum, standing toe to toe with his father only for the writer to complete drop all that build up. Now, as a writer, Toriyama definitely has the right to do so if he doesn’t think it fits but don’t expect the majority of people to not be disappointed that they got invested in an idea that never goes anywhere.
Regarding Gohan currently, this kind of falls back on my “Gohan pre and post Cell Games feel like different characters” bit. Adult Gohan doesn’t feel like an evolution of young Gohan, at least to me. However, I do think that the development they gave him in Super—becoming stronger to protect his family—fits. They just need to KEEP the development instead of backpedaling on it.
I’ve brought it up before but I do think it applies here—the writing of the Human-Saiyan hybrids is really hit and miss. Young Gohan I feel was a really good mix of the traits of both races but in the later material, it seems to fall into “If you’re a human you don’t like to fight” (completely ignoring the human fighters that did so for self improvement) or “you’re a Saiyan so all you know is battle.” The writing has fallen into those white/black extremes which is a real shame. It serves the story best when it’s shades of grey.
When he’s first introduced, we’re shown his personality varies immensely from his father’s but once Piccolo thrusts him into training, they seem to be making him out to be a combination of Goku and Piccolo’s fighting styles and someone who may not thrust for battle but will take it upon themselves to protect other people.
If they had kept going with this character development, it likely would have been awesome. The manga and anime really were pushing the “take the mantle from the father” angle but when that doesn’t come to fruition, all that development kind of...fizzles away. I still feel like the Gohan prior to the Cell Games and the Gohan after the 7 year gap feel like completely different characters. It doesn’t seem to mesh up with his earlier personality which is very jarring.
In my experience, it isn’t necessarily that Gohan isn’t a “bad ass” that get people frustrated and upset, it’s that the narrative had set him up since the beginning to be building towards following in the footsteps of the main hero and when that is dropped, out of nowhere, it pulls out some passionate feelings. Here’s a character we’ve been watching develop and grow with the very clear indication he’ll be, at minimum, standing toe to toe with his father only for the writer to complete drop all that build up. Now, as a writer, Toriyama definitely has the right to do so if he doesn’t think it fits but don’t expect the majority of people to not be disappointed that they got invested in an idea that never goes anywhere.
Regarding Gohan currently, this kind of falls back on my “Gohan pre and post Cell Games feel like different characters” bit. Adult Gohan doesn’t feel like an evolution of young Gohan, at least to me. However, I do think that the development they gave him in Super—becoming stronger to protect his family—fits. They just need to KEEP the development instead of backpedaling on it.
I’ve brought it up before but I do think it applies here—the writing of the Human-Saiyan hybrids is really hit and miss. Young Gohan I feel was a really good mix of the traits of both races but in the later material, it seems to fall into “If you’re a human you don’t like to fight” (completely ignoring the human fighters that did so for self improvement) or “you’re a Saiyan so all you know is battle.” The writing has fallen into those white/black extremes which is a real shame. It serves the story best when it’s shades of grey.
We truly begin to live when we find something we're willing to die for
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
Gohan was at his best in Movie #18 and #19: not a fighter or a central character but still able to do some fighting when necessary.
She/Her
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter
- TheGodfather93
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:55 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Re: I think it's time to admit Gohan is a terrible character
This here is why Gohan's my favourite character in the series. The fact that one of the most realistic characters in a series full of wacky stories and concepts just appeals to me. I don't care that he's not the strongest character in the series, and I'm happy he didn't grow up to be a Goku clone. To me, this makes sense from a character development standpoint. Gohan basically spent his entire childhood fighting all kinds of nightmarish monsters because he was one of the few people who could, despite his dislike of fighting in general. It was only natural that in a time of peace, after all the fighting had stopped, he'd want to settle down and try and live a normal life free of all that craziness. It was also a miracle (by real life standards at least) that he didn't develop PTSD from all the crap he'd gone through as a kid. Even then, he remained one of the strongest fighters in the universe, and that was good enough for me. The writing in the Boo arc was all over the place, but for the most part, I think Gohan's character development was rather consistent throughout DB/Z.gokaiblue wrote:Gohan is probably the most normal and well adjusted character in the franchise. He has a normal family life and a job. I'd honestly love to see a slice of life Dragon Ball spin off featuring Gohan.
Another big reason I like him more than Goku and Vegeta is because he's a lot more selfless and kindhearted than either of them. Whereas they're both battle maniacs who would risk the lives of innocent people for the sake of a good fight, Gohan actively seeks to use his powers to help people. I loved the Saiyaman arc, and up until now, Saiyaman/high school Gohan remains my favourite incarnation of the character, with kid Gohan from Namek coming second. Conversely, I actually quite dislike Ultimate Gohan, and I'm not the biggest fan of SSJ2 Gohan from the Cell Games either.
I think a reason a lot of people like to crap all over Gohan so much is because when they watched the series as kids, they tried to live out their childhood power fantasies through him, as he was probably the most relatable character to them. Then, when his character didn't develop the way they wanted, they turned on him and started trashing him. It's why so many people on social media were so reactionary with everything he did in Super, and why every little thing he did in that show was overanalysed to death..
If you have the time and are interested, please consider checking out my fanfiction account at https://www.fanfiction.net/~thegodfather93