How would you change your least favourite saga?

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Logania
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Re: How would you change your least favourite saga?

Post by Logania » Tue May 15, 2018 8:12 pm

sintzu wrote:I'd have the winner universe only be able to bring back one of the three so there'd be some conflict between the U7 fighters on who to bring as each characters will want to bring their friends back.
I like that, and wish it was similar in the actual tournament. That way there would be some actual results for the tournament instead of everything being back to the status quo.
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Re: How would you change your least favourite saga?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:32 pm

I'm going to be completely clear here -- not counting the Universe Surival arc, which I never finished watching so I don't think it counts, there are only two arcs in all of Dragon Ball that I don't like, and out of them, only one of them is one I actively dislike. I'm going to be covering both, and I'll be going over the one I actively dislike second.

Resurrection F was rather dull, and lacked tension, and Whis's time thing was both unnecessary and stupid, and actually the presence of Beerus and Whis felt pretty perfunctory too. But, I think this could all be solved, while also fixing the BOG arc's problem of dragging out a bit once the fight got started, and the retellings in general being a bit of a slog -- simply combine the RF and BOG arcs into one for the TV version. Have the planet Beerus destroys be somehow connected to the Freeza force, I would suggest by having them in the process of invading the planet, then Beerus destroys it, massacring a sizeable portion of the Freeza force, so the officers stage a mutiny against the commander in charge of this, and the new guy who takes charge decides "Things have been terrible since Freeza died. Let's make it our mission to revive him."
As general shenanigans are playing out, some elite members of the Freeza force make it to earth, where they steal the Dragon Balls from Bulma's boat. They then sneak off and use them to wish Freeza back. With their remaining wish, they wish him to be strong enough to kill Goku. While this is happening, the ritual to become the Super Saiyan God has happened, and Beerus and Goku are already in the middle of their fight(I realise this means Shen Long wasn't around to tell them how to do it; no reason it can't be Elder Kaioshin who tells them about the Super Saiyan God legend, right?), so Goku ascends to godhood to fight Beerus, and Freeza comes back, strong enough to kill Goku in this state, presumably giving him the golden form or something.
As Goku and Beerus are fighting, they sense a massive power appear, and both stop fighting for a moment. Beerus thinks someone else has become a Super Saiyan God, but naturally, it's Freeza. Beerus and Freeza squabble a bit over who gets to fight Goku, and in the end, Goku settles it with something silly like a coin flip, he ends up fighting Freeza, it eventually leads to Goku losing his God form and reverting to Super Saiyan, but before the final blow can be struck, Freeza gets slapped into a planet by Beerus, who would rather Goku stayed alive so they may fight again. Beerus ends up killing Freeza, and then does his sleep fakeout.

I'm not a writer, so I don't imagine this is exactly good, but I think this is the beginnings of something potentially more interesting than the total rehashes the movie retellings were in the first place, and especially given how dull RF is in general. Changing things up would provide a different experience, which does away with the rehash problem, and combining RF into BOG streamlines the narrative considerably, and deals with the problem RF initially had of simply not having enough story to fit its alotted time, and in theory would pile on some additional tension when he's brought back later, since he's now bested Goku in their last encounter, but not only was Goku robbed of the chance to actually finish his fight, but Freeza was robbed of the chance to actually go through with killing Goku, and by none other than Beerus.

...

There are a lot of narrative issues in the Black arc that lead up to its ending, most of which were very neatly resolved in the manga. So, I'll be making changes using the manga's telling as my starting point, though I will reference the anime too; first up, potara fusion has no time restriction, that retcon is stupid and unnecessary. Kaioshin still gives Goku the potara earrings, and suggests they become Vegetto, but Goku and Vegeta object to being permanently fused, however this does give Goku the idea of using the fusion technique instead, which they both find much more tolerable of an idea. So, they decide to do that, but Zamasu Black is unlikely to allow them the time to perform it, so they have Trunks join them in the fray so he has to fight on three fronts. They manoeuvre the fight such that Goku and Vegeta disappear into a building, and Trunks draws Black's attention for a moment; this allows Goku and Vegeta to form Gogeta. They head over to Zamasu Black, and a really crazy fight ensues, though unlike the manga's approach of the fight being a matter of trying to stall out Black until the fusion runs out, it's a matter of actually just trying to kill him; like in the anime, he's only half immortal, so he's still killable in theory... And Gogeta comes pretty close; in fact, one more hit would probably do it, but then he defuses, and Goku and Vegeta fall onto the ground in opposite directions, utterly tired out, and barely conscious. Black laughs and gloats for a moment, but is interrupted when Trunks chops him in half, dealing the final needed blow. And so, Black falls to the ground in two pieces, dead.
Trunks returns to the prime timeline to say goodbye to everybody, and to thank them for all they've done, then he departs. There's a notable ambiguity left as to whether Trunks, Mai, and the resistance force will be able to rebuild their world.

I still don't think this would be a particularly good ending, but I think it solves a lot of my major issues with the arc, and while I do appreciate the manga's telling, the ending still ended up being a total letdown, however instead of being a transcendental ruination of the arc starting from pretty much the moment they got to the future, it was simply rather a mess that began once Goku summoned the Omni-King. Thing is, the multiple Zamasu Blacks, or in the anime, the infinite Zamasu Black thing that somehow happened for whatever reason, is a corner that the plot writes itself into that can't really be written out of without its very literal Deus Ex Machina. So, this is my attempt to circumvent the Deus Ex Machina; it's not perfect, and I think the ending would still end up being a bit of an anticlimax in that it'd be concluding with a fairly straightforward fight with only the fact it's Gogeta vs a god being the real draw, and Trunks being the one who delivers the final blow is a bit silly, but I think it's at the very least a fun exercise, and perhaps even a step in the right direction in fixing the almost irredeemably awful ending of the Black arc.
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Re: How would you change your least favourite saga?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu May 17, 2018 12:00 pm

Super 17:

- Scrap the whole #17 being built in Hell by Myuu and Gero and Earth being linked to Hell by a warp hole nonsense.
- Have a relative or former ally construct #17.
- Give #17 and #18 a backstory to make #17 becoming Super #17 somewhat sympathetic.
- Give Vegeta SSJ4 in this arc via Blutz Wave Generator
- Have the supporting cast play more of a part in Super #17's demise beyond #18.

Not a lot of in-depth changes, I know. But this could have made a world of difference in how the arc played out and how much mileage I could have gotten out of it.

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Re: How would you change your least favourite saga?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:59 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Super 17:

- Scrap the whole #17 being built in Hell by Myuu and Gero and Earth being linked to Hell by a warp hole nonsense.
- Have a relative or former ally construct #17.
- Give #17 and #18 a backstory to make #17 becoming Super #17 somewhat sympathetic.
- Give Vegeta SSJ4 in this arc via Blutz Wave Generator
- Have the supporting cast play more of a part in Super #17's demise beyond #18.

Not a lot of in-depth changes, I know. But this could have made a world of difference in how the arc played out and how much mileage I could have gotten out of it.
Funny, this is kind of similar, but also kind of the opposite to how I'd have done it.

I'd have said to go all-in on the hell portal hole thing and focus on the arc being dumb and stupid, but fun; a sort of lighthearted break between the Baby and Evil Dragons arcs.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: How would you change your least favourite saga?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri May 18, 2018 2:51 pm

My least favourite arc is Tournament of Power Saga, but i honestly don't know how to fix it.
It would be easier to just remove entire saga and make it again from scratch than actually trying to fix it.
There were so many wrong things about this arc that i simply don't know where to start.
Lord Beerus wrote:Super 17:

- Scrap the whole #17 being built in Hell by Myuu and Gero and Earth being linked to Hell by a warp hole nonsense.
- Have a relative or former ally construct #17.
- Give #17 and #18 a backstory to make #17 becoming Super #17 somewhat sympathetic.
- Give Vegeta SSJ4 in this arc via Blutz Wave Generator
- Have the supporting cast play more of a part in Super #17's demise beyond #18.

Not a lot of in-depth changes, I know. But this could have made a world of difference in how the arc played out and how much mileage I could have gotten out of it.
I think the idea of Hell Fighter 17 was great, just his creation in hell didn't make much sense. GT followed DBZ fillers where hell has amusement park so it defends GT a bit but still, they could've done it better. They could go with something like Gero cloning #17 when he was in hell after being killed by Cell's self-destruction. Idk.

I don't mind this saga. It's the worst GT saga but i still like it.
What i would change about this saga is giving more time to the side-battles with foes from hell.
Cooler was shown in TV. They could make Goten and Trunks fight him for example.
And Super 17 was way too strong in base. I think Vegeta SSJ2 or Majuub should be able to fight on par with him at start and then Vegeta would like to show off as always and blast Super 17 with his new technique - Final Shine Attack, which would make Super 17 a lot stronger.
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