How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:22 pm

When it was announced that Frieza was returning a lot of people were upset that he would return again after some complaints about Ressurection F both the movie and it's retelling but now in his second return and after the tournament of power Frieza has been mostly well received due to how differently he was acting in the tournament itself. What are your thoughts on this? I believe he was added by Toriyama as an apology of Ressurection F.

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Forte224 » Fri May 18, 2018 4:17 pm

I too groaned at Freeza's 3rd canon return, and I too really liked how he was handled. We'll see what happens from here forward. It doesn't seem as straightforward as "He'll be a major villain again" or "He'll join the good guys". I think he's going to play a part in turning against Beerus and the like. Maybe he'll become the next God of Destruction. Either way, his goal for getting the Super Dragon Balls was very specific and stated several times (in his thoughts, on the outside he was still the typical "I'm evil b̶w̶a̶h̶a̶h̶a̶ ohohoho"), so I think Toei has an overall plan for him. My theory is that Boo was originally intended to be in the ToP, but very early on they came up with some idea for Freeza and switched Boo out of the team. At this point we'll just have to see what happens, but if they handle his character as well as they did in the ToP then I think it'll turn out great.

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Forte224 wrote:I too groaned at Freeza's 3rd canon return, and I too really liked how he was handled. We'll see what happens from here forward. It doesn't seem as straightforward as "He'll be a major villain again" or "He'll join the good guys". I think he's going to play a part in turning against Beerus and the like. Maybe he'll become the next God of Destruction. Either way, his goal for getting the Super Dragon Balls was very specific and stated several times (in his thoughts, on the outside he was still the typical "I'm evil b̶w̶a̶h̶a̶h̶a̶ ohohoho"), so I think Toei has an overall plan for him. My theory is that Boo was originally intended to be in the ToP, but very early on they came up with some idea for Freeza and switched Boo out of the team. At this point we'll just have to see what happens, but if they handle his character as well as they did in the ToP then I think it'll turn out great.
i don't think Frieza becoming a goody guy will happen anyway because you know this http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... DragonBall He was the first complete monster of the series even after character development.

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri May 18, 2018 5:12 pm

Freeza is a MAJOR wildcard, now.

Nobody really expected him to be revived and primed to continue being a dastardly fellow who isn't on the side of good; we all mostly thought he would probably go back to Hell for whatever reason. If he did get revived, there'd be conditions that would follow.

Freeza has been EXTREMELY well handled despite how easy it would've been to mess everything up. The fact that he actually went through some character development whilst also retaining his core personality traits has solidified his role in the future. Heck, the upcoming movie is supposed to explore his relationship with the Saiyans, so we can expect that he'll at least be involved in some capacity.

I think I can safely say that many folks, myself included, are quite excited for what the galactic tyrant of Universe 7 will do next.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by ABED » Fri May 18, 2018 5:51 pm

But he's still brought back three times. Law of diminishing marginal returns has kicked in. I guess Freeza becoming a god of destruction is somewhat novel, but to what end?

I'm a big fan of Supernatural and Mark Pellegrino is great as Lucifer, but the character overstayed his welcome.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Logania » Fri May 18, 2018 6:09 pm

ABED wrote:I'm a big fan of Supernatural and Mark Pellegrino is great as Lucifer, but the character overstayed his welcome.
Well, you don't have to worry about him being there anymore since the finale happened lol
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by ABED » Fri May 18, 2018 6:22 pm

Logania wrote:
ABED wrote:I'm a big fan of Supernatural and Mark Pellegrino is great as Lucifer, but the character overstayed his welcome.
Well, you don't have to worry about him being there anymore since the finale happened lol
I know, but that moment should've felt more cathartic than it was.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 6:27 pm

ABED wrote:
Logania wrote:
ABED wrote:I'm a big fan of Supernatural and Mark Pellegrino is great as Lucifer, but the character overstayed his welcome.
Well, you don't have to worry about him being there anymore since the finale happened lol
I know, but that moment should've felt more cathartic than it was.
Well toriyama is gonna crush your hopes and dreams from now on. Besides you never watched the tournament of power so no Frieza is here to stay whether you like it or not.also don't give me that your laws of diminished exeuses that is just plain stupid

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Logania » Fri May 18, 2018 6:40 pm

Toxin45 wrote: Well toriyama is gonna crush your hopes and dreams from now on. Besides you never watched the tournament of power so no Frieza is here to stay whether you like it or not.also don't give me that your laws of diminished exeuses that is just plain stupid

That's cool and all, but why reply to my post convo that wasn't anything about Freeza? Wrong post to rant about, bro lol
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 6:49 pm

ABED wrote:But he's still brought back three times. Law of diminishing marginal returns has kicked in. I guess Freeza becoming a god of destruction is somewhat novel, but to what end?

I'm a big fan of Supernatural and Mark Pellegrino is great as Lucifer, but the character overstayed his welcome.
Your still on about this dude toriyama defied your opinions when whis brought back Frieza again and if you seen the tournament of power you would know what I ment and like it or not he is here to stay and also he will appear in the super movie. Your laws are just plain stupid.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by ABED » Fri May 18, 2018 6:53 pm

I was drawing a parallel here. Bringing characters back again and again has less and less of a potent effect.
Your still on about this dude toriyama defied your opinions when whis brought back Frieza again and if you seen the tournament of power you would know what I ment and like it or not he is here to stay and also he will appear in the super movie. Your laws are just plain stupid.
It's not just me, but how many times are you going to say things like "Toiryama brought him back, deal with it"? I know that he brought him back, I just don't agree with the decision. I'm not obligated to like anything. Like it or not? Okay, in this case - NOT.

The law of diminishing marginal returns isn't stupid, it's a fact of reality. I'm just applying it to a different context.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:06 pm

ABED wrote:I was drawing a parallel here. Bringing characters back again and again has less and less of a potent effect.
Your still on about this dude toriyama defied your opinions when whis brought back Frieza again and if you seen the tournament of power you would know what I ment and like it or not he is here to stay and also he will appear in the super movie. Your laws are just plain stupid.
It's not just me, but how many times are you going to say things like "Toiryama brought him back, deal with it"? I know that he brought him back, I just don't agree with the decision. I'm not obligated to like anything. Like it or not? Okay, in this case - NOT.

The law of diminishing marginal returns isn't stupid, it's a fact of reality. I'm just applying it to a different context.
That is just an opinion nothing more it really affect the narrative and that fact he is the only returning unreformed villain at this point shouldn't be a big deal.

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Forte224 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:09 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
ABED wrote:I was drawing a parallel here. Bringing characters back again and again has less and less of a potent effect.
Your still on about this dude toriyama defied your opinions when whis brought back Frieza again and if you seen the tournament of power you would know what I ment and like it or not he is here to stay and also he will appear in the super movie. Your laws are just plain stupid.
It's not just me, but how many times are you going to say things like "Toiryama brought him back, deal with it"? I know that he brought him back, I just don't agree with the decision. I'm not obligated to like anything. Like it or not? Okay, in this case - NOT.

The law of diminishing marginal returns isn't stupid, it's a fact of reality. I'm just applying it to a different context.
That is just an opinion nothing more it really affect the narrative and that fact he is the only returning unreformed villain at this point shouldn't be a big deal.
Well, what I bolded is just an opinion too, isn't it?

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:11 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
ABED wrote:I was drawing a parallel here. Bringing characters back again and again has less and less of a potent effect.

It's not just me, but how many times are you going to say things like "Toiryama brought him back, deal with it"? I know that he brought him back, I just don't agree with the decision. I'm not obligated to like anything. Like it or not? Okay, in this case - NOT.

The law of diminishing marginal returns isn't stupid, it's a fact of reality. I'm just applying it to a different context.
That is just an opinion nothing more it really affect the narrative and that fact he is the only returning unreformed villain at this point shouldn't be a big deal.
Well, what I bolded is just an opinion too, isn't it?
Frieza didn't get reformed dude. Also he is neutral evil. When you put it like that though fine opinions are opinions and also I wasn't talking about this stuff to you dude

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Forte224 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:13 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
Toxin45 wrote: That is just an opinion nothing more it really affect the narrative and that fact he is the only returning unreformed villain at this point shouldn't be a big deal.
Well, what I bolded is just an opinion too, isn't it?
Frieza didn't get reformed dude. Also he is neutral evil. When you put it like that though sheesh.
I meant the "shouldn't be a big deal" part is just an opinion too.

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:14 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
Forte224 wrote: Well, what I bolded is just an opinion too, isn't it?
Frieza didn't get reformed dude. Also he is neutral evil. When you put it like that though sheesh.
I meant the "shouldn't be a big deal" part is just an opinion too.
Well it is?

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Forte224 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:18 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
Toxin45 wrote: Frieza didn't get reformed dude. Also he is neutral evil. When you put it like that though sheesh.
I meant the "shouldn't be a big deal" part is just an opinion too.
Well it is?
Yes, it is. You seemed to be discrediting ABED's posts by saying they're "just" opinions but that's all any of this is, including your arguments. Anyway, I don't think I'll be spending much more time in this thread.

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:20 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Toxin45 wrote:
Forte224 wrote: I meant the "shouldn't be a big deal" part is just an opinion too.
Well it is?
Yes, it is. You seemed to be discrediting ABED's posts by saying they're "just" opinions but that's all any of this is, including your arguments. Anyway, I don't think I'll be spending much more time in this thread.
Then why are you even involved?

User avatar
Logania
Regular
Posts: 593
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:47 am

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Logania » Fri May 18, 2018 7:33 pm

On the main topic of the thread:

I really don't care that he's back to life and out doing his tyrannical world trader business.

He's gone from the strongest being in the universe on his first appearence in the series, to coming back as a cyborg for revenge and gets jobbed to Trunks and dying, to coming back for...revenge again, and gets his ass handed to him by Vegeta and dying, to him being in the torunament. As ABED pointed out, bringing back a character over and over again begins to lose the effect they had previously and I feel it majorly with Freeza.

Usually villains come back or are not killed off so they can have a change in character and effect the plot. Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, 17 and 18, Buu, Beerus (not gonna list Hit and Jiren, they're just guys in a tournament, not a major villain in an arc). They all had character growth and had a reason to stay, Freeza however...

Freeza has been the exact same person from Namek until now. I don't care what people say when they say he's had great growth and is now a evil genius and is plotting to do something to defy the Gods, because it's plot points brought up once and never addressed again even at the finale. The only change he has had is that he fights alongside Goku, which isn't much, it's so that they can win and he won't be erased, it's to look after himself like always. He's still the same sadist who tortures people, has a personal vendetta with Saiyans, has a calm demeanor but acts childish and irrational when things don't go his way, and just wants to rule all.

I wouldn't have a problem with him ending with his Empire shtick bent on revenge if this was the first time he's brought back, but its not. This dude has been back 4 times and the result of over 15 years as a character is he's back at square one like he was on Namek. There's possibilites of what they can do with himin the future, but when the series is over and the only thing you can have from the character going forward is theories and speculations and no actual progression then it isn't a positive, it can apply to every character in the series.

When the movie comes out and we see something new from Freeza (maybe, they could actually not do much with him we don't know yet) then I'll actually have some potential enjoyment from him if he's doing something different, but until then I couldn't care less about him.
"I can't increase my ability through some kind of noisy transformation the way Frost and you Saiyans do. If I wanna become more lethal, I don't have the luxury of cutting corners, I just have to do it the old-fashioned way.

Combat is craft. What matters most is not raw power, but the skill by which you hone it."

Toxin45
Regular
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: How do you feel about Frieza after the tournament of power

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:50 pm

Logania wrote:On the main topic of the thread:

I really don't care that he's back to life and out doing his tyrannical world trader business.

He's gone from the strongest being in the universe on his first appearence in the series, to coming back as a cyborg for revenge and gets jobbed to Trunks and dying, to coming back for...revenge again, and gets his ass handed to him by Vegeta and dying, to him being in the torunament. As ABED pointed out, bringing back a character over and over again begins to lose the effect they had previously and I feel it majorly with Freeza.

Usually villains come back or are not killed off so they can have a change in character and effect the plot. Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta, 17 and 18, Buu, Beerus (not gonna list Hit and Jiren, they're just guys in a tournament, not a major villain in an arc). They all had character growth and had a reason to stay, Freeza however...

Freeza has been the exact same person from Namek until now. I don't care what people say when they say he's had great growth and is now a evil genius and is plotting to do something to defy the Gods, because it's plot points brought up once and never addressed again even at the finale. The only change he has had is that he fights alongside Goku, which isn't much, it's so that they can win and he won't be erased, it's to look after himself like always. He's still the same sadist who tortures people, has a personal vendetta with Saiyans, has a calm demeanor but acts childish and irrational when things don't go his way, and just wants to rule all.

I wouldn't have a problem with him ending with his Empire shtick bent on revenge if this was the first time he's brought back, but its not. This dude has been back 4 times and the result of over 15 years as a character is he's back at square one like he was on Namek. There's possibilites of what they can do with himin the future, but when the series is over and the only thing you can have from the character going forward is theories and speculations and no actual progression then it isn't a positive, it can apply to every character in the series.

When the movie comes out and we see something new from Freeza (maybe, they could actually not do much with him we don't know yet) then I'll actually have some potential enjoyment from him if he's doing something different, but until then I couldn't care less about him.
Yeah I know you don't care but cell well if you don't want him to come back that's fine.Jeez dude weren't you the one who wanted cell to come back? Toriyama wanted to make Frieza the only unreformed villain to return so that was kinds the point he is just more Willing to be more paicent in his goals now. Frieza being redeemed would be jumping shark material anyway.

Post Reply