The forgotten writers of DB: Filler?

[jpranevich]

I have been rewatching DB & DBZ and thinking about some of the one-off and mini-arc episodes: the 5-part "wedding dress" saga, Goku's training with Kami, Gohan's adventures such as with the orphans or the the robot... These are all "filler" material, of course, and perhaps less important than what was written by Toriyama.

And yet, I have to wonder if we aren't talking enough about the people writing these episodes. Someone out there created these stories, wrote them, and they got put into our series... but who? Are these the guys credited as the script writers? Something else? For example, did Takao Koyama plot out the wedding dress events? And then it was elaborated on by the writers of the other episodes? Was there a "writers room" for creating the filler content and episodes where writers met to break out the plots together and assign who would write what, as we have in modern serialized storytelling?

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'd like to learn more about the OTHER Dragon Ball writers, what they wrote for Dragon Ball or other series, etc. If I happened to like a specific bit of filler, where can I find out what other events they plotted in the series? I've heard so much talk on the podcast and in the forums about the composers, directors, and animators, but we hardly hear any talk about the writers other than Toriyama (and occasionally the writers for the films).

Can anyone fill me in on what we know of the writing and adapting process?

[JulieYBM]

Kanzenshuu has all of the writers for every episode listed in the Episode Guide and Production Guide.

The plot is decided upon by the series director, the series kousei (series composer, the lead writer that works with the series director and oversees the scripts) and the producer (who basically reigns in the creative staff). After the plot has been decided upon a writer will be assigned to write a script based off of the series director and series composer's ideas. The finished script is approved by both the series composer and series director before being adapted into a storyboard (where whatever further changes that need to be made are made). For the Wedding Dress arc Series Composer Koyama Takao wrote Episodes #149, #151A (the first half of the episode), #152B (the second half of the episode) and #153. Terui Keiji wrote #150 while Sumisawa Katsuyuki wrote #151B and #152A. Two script writers credited per episode is actually pretty rare in a lot of anime so I imagine the production for this arc was a little rushed. The Wedding Dress arc might've been a last minute decision to delay broadcasting the new Dragon Ball Z series until April, the beginning of Japan's Spring season.

Fun fact: Sumisawa later went on to script all nine episodes of the Garlic Junior arc by himself. I imagine he was given a lot of leeway to just write the arc as he wanted. I have to wonder how much he just bullshitted his way through the process since it usually takes a script writer two weeks to finish a single script. Even Tomioka Atsuhiro only wrote seven episodes in a row for Dragon Ball Super, and Tomioka is very notably extremely fast.

[jpranevich]

The credits are there, but without your explanation I was uncertain what to look for or how the roles fit together. It is strange that we never talk about the writers that did some of the best non-Toriyama sequences. I suppose they (like the animators) labor in obscurity until someone wants to find out more about them.

[JulieYBM]

Western fandom tends to not follow how anime is made. Pokemon discourse is so bad about this because next to nobody actually looks at the credits and tries to understand how television is made. It's always just 'the writers', assuming that they have full control over the project.

A writer writes the script but that doesn't mean they were the ultimate authority on an episode. A script is just a script, after all, not a finished episode.

[ABED]

Western fandom tends to not follow how anime is made. Pokemon discourse is so bad about this because next to nobody actually looks at the credits and tries to understand how television is made. It's always just 'the writers', assuming that they have full control over the project.

A writer writes the script but that doesn't mean they were the ultimate authority on an episode. A script is just a script, after all, not a finished episode.

No, but the script is the blue print of the story. It's the structure. You get that wrong, it doesn't matter how clever your storyboarding is or slick the animation looks if the story doesn't work.

[JulieYBM]

Western fandom tends to not follow how anime is made. Pokemon discourse is so bad about this because next to nobody actually looks at the credits and tries to understand how television is made. It's always just 'the writers', assuming that they have full control over the project.

A writer writes the script but that doesn't mean they were the ultimate authority on an episode. A script is just a script, after all, not a finished episode.

No, but the script is the blue print of the story. It's the structure. You get that wrong, it doesn't matter how clever your storyboarding is or slick the animation looks if the story doesn't work.

Nope, you're wrong. A good storyboard and animation communicate the feelings of the production crew first and foremost. Your script doesn't have to be the greatest in the world if you know how to communicate your ideas otherwise. The visual storytelling medium hinges most on the visuals.

[ABED]

It's visual STORYTELLING, not VISUAL storytelling. That doesn't mean what's most important is a nice visual. It means the story is primarily told through visuals, not dialog, monologue, or narration. For instance, instead of a character saying, "my daughter is going off to for her first day of school and I'm sad," it means conveying that emotion with images like showing a kid with a backpack running towards a school bus and cut to an older woman waving and sobbing. It clearly conveys the story.

If you can clearly communicate your ideas, why wouldn't you be able to do so in the script?

A bunch of nice visuals without a good story means nothing. By the same token, you can have pedestrian visuals, but if you have a good story and a good cast, then it can make up for a whole hell of a lot, even in animation.

I do wonder how they decide where to put the filler. When do they decide to put it between canon scenes, insert it into the manga material, and when like in the case of Garlic Jr. arc to created it from scratch. Also, how did they decide on 10 episodes for Garlic Jr.? (I'm counting Kuririn's 101st Proposal)

[JulieYBM]

The viewer is not consuming the depiction of the writer's feelings when the animation, camera angles, cutting or colors are on display. The script is ultimately merely a first step and not the critical linchpin that determines the sole understanding of the work, especially when it is entirely possible for the storyboard to change the script's scene flow and dialogue. A script could be entirely bare-bones and tossed together at the last second only for the storyboard artist, episode director and animation supervisor to completely salvage the episode.

Kami to Kami had a nice script and good acting but weighing that with the horrible music, coloring, directing and animation and you wind up with a movie being 40% good and 60% bad.

Take Yuu Yuu Hakusho Episode #58, for instance. The script is basically just Hiei and Bui shit-talking one another, which while not a terrible idea in theory is also not a spectacular idea for an episode. It is the passion of Storyboard Artist & Episode Director Shinbou Akiyuki and Animation Supervisor Wakabayashi Atsushi and his talented key animators that make that episode as much of a classic as it is. The manner in which they depict the idea of these two obsessed characters is so lovingly depicted that they've taken a very simple script and made a great episode out of it.

The actual blue print of the episode is the story and staff meetings before the episode. Because Japanese cartoons are led first and foremost by directors (many of which are simply former animators) what you have is a system very different from the United States' writers-turned-executive-producer system and thus hundreds of projects hinged on the unique traits of its creators, directors and animators. Scripts are mere excuses to let good staff run wild more often than not.

[VegettoEX]

While I'm certainly one to appreciate pedantry, let's not get completely lost in it to the point where the original question/conversation is left behind... which is exactly what's happening here. Thank you!

[jpranevich]

To go back to my original question, I want to learn more about the storytellers that came up with the non-Toriyama content in DB/DBZ. Maybe those were the script writers, or the directors, or someone else but SOMEONE came up with each of those stories and I'd like to learn more about that process and who those people are. The long filler arcs (Garlic Jr, Wedding Dress, Afterlife Tournament, etc.) are notable because they must have involved more collaboration to block out a plot over multiple episodes, but some of my favorite episodes of DB/DBZ are one-offs like Goku's time travel adventure during DB or Gohan's one-offs in the Vegeta Saga. Who wrote those and what else did they write? It's not easy to see that today.

(And you are right that some of the best storytelling is visual. I just watched the filler sequence last night where Gohan is sneaking out of the hospital to train prior to going to Namek, only to have to pretend to be studying on the roof when Chichi catches him. It had no "writing" but someone came up and storyboarded that sequence and they did a fantastic job of conveying Gohan's emotional state and how much he had changed in just a few minutes of content.)

If I was smarter, I'd write a "storyteller's guide" for all of the filler bits, but I don't know nearly enough which is why I am asking you guys.

[Desassina]

Think of the script writers and story board makers as the drawing and animation artists' equivalent. You can find examples of how the visuals of Dragon Ball/Z were made, but you don't usually get the raw talent exposed, because their work went under supervision. Trying to figure them out through the art and dialogue that was presented to us is an unfair comparison to an author not being directed but helped by the editor. A production team is usually different than a publishing one because the former directs talent while the latter is only there to safeguard new ideas. I've had the privilege of working with an editor as a graphic designer when the companies didn't take me for the talent that I didn't have. She found me a market and I put my work out there. I'm now directing a small team of visual artists.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Atsushi Maekawa was a writer for Dragon Ball if I'm not mistaken.

[Xeogran]

The Gohan & Robot episode is one of Nozawa's favorites, which says a lot! I liked these one-off stories, glad i'm not alone here.

[JazzMazz]

To go back to my original question, I want to learn more about the storytellers that came up with the non-Toriyama content in DB/DBZ. Maybe those were the script writers, or the directors, or someone else but SOMEONE came up with each of those stories and I'd like to learn more about that process and who those people are. The long filler arcs (Garlic Jr, Wedding Dress, Afterlife Tournament, etc.) are notable because they must have involved more collaboration to block out a plot over multiple episodes, but some of my favorite episodes of DB/DBZ are one-offs like Goku's time travel adventure during DB or Gohan's one-offs in the Vegeta Saga. Who wrote those and what else did they write? It's not easy to see that today.

(And you are right that some of the best storytelling is visual. I just watched the filler sequence last night where Gohan is sneaking out of the hospital to train prior to going to Namek, only to have to pretend to be studying on the roof when Chichi catches him. It had no "writing" but someone came up and storyboarded that sequence and they did a fantastic job of conveying Gohan's emotional state and how much he had changed in just a few minutes of content.)

If I was smarter, I'd write a "storyteller's guide" for all of the filler bits, but I don't know nearly enough which is why I am asking you guys.

If your interested in seeing the actual production materials for DB, I would go check out Kanzenshuu's own production guide(which I believe will be receiving an overhaul sometime), and Datwerg's twitter. They have a lot of production materials, from key frames, to genga, to layouts, to storyboards, to the actual scripts of episodes(ask him about the script for episode 103 of DBZ, its interesting).

For further reading, I would recommend checking out Sakuga Blogs article on script creation for anime. Its pretty comprehensive.

[8000 Saiyan]

I have to thank the filler writers for making Yamcha look good.

And I have to agree with ABED that story is more important than visuals. You could have Roger Deakins shoot a movie, but if the story isn't interesting, then I'm not interested.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Who is that guy? Roger something?

[8000 Saiyan]

Who is that guy? Roger something?

Roger Deakins. The guy is considered one of the best cinematographers working today. He's won one Academy Award out of 14 nominations.

Look up his filmography.

[ABED]

Who tries to maintain continuity with the filler? Because there are a lot of very questionable moments that make me think the right hand doesn't talk to the left. For instance, Vegeta beats the crap out of Gohan after Namek then flies off. The next episode, he hasn't gone anywhere and everyone acts as though nothing happened.

[VegettoEX]

Who tries to maintain continuity with the filler? Because there are a lot of very questionable moments that make me think the right hand doesn't talk to the left. For instance, Vegeta beats the crap out of Gohan after Namek then flies off. The next episode, he hasn't gone anywhere and everyone acts as though nothing happened.

This was also a very unique case where they were right around the smallest gap between original manga and corresponding anime material (DBZ episode 96 vs. DB chapter 329 being the precise point in time at a 10-chapter gap). Considering when episodes were put into production versus when they aired versus what manga material was available to them, it's no wonder something disjointed like that happened right around there.

[jpranevich]

Thanks for everyone that adds information to this thread. I suppose that now that Toriyama is sharing writing duties (even to a small extent) with Toyotaro, I am much more interested in the other non-Toriyama writers that have contributed to the series.

I'm just re-watching the journey-to-Namek filler now (for the first time uncut; last time I watched this was in Toonami's original English run): two episodes featuring space-orphans (seriously, what is up with Gohan wandering into orphans?) followed by four on Fake Namek.

The space orphans were actually better than I remembered, in large part because the mini-arc was short and because the writers used that as a backdoor introduction to Freeza's empire, effectively adding tension as our heroes realize that space isn't as friendly as they believed. The Kanzenshuu guide says they were scripted by Takao Koyama (39) & Katsuyuki Sumisawa (40). That still makes me wonder who came up with the scenario for it. Keiji Terui did the previous orphans episode (ep14) so at least he can't be blamed for repeating himself.

I'm still making it through Fake Namek, but I'm not at all sure why the writers decided that was the best way to use up four episodes. I suppose the idea of a DB-style dragon ball hunt isn't a terrible one (and there are echos of the second DB hunt during the Red Ribbon arc except with Gohan instead of Goku), but given that Toriyama's about to give us the absolutely brilliant subversion with the Namek ball hunt, it seems redundant. I am not a brilliant anime writer so I don't have any particularly good ideas as to what they could have done better, but there must have been something. Scripting for these were Keiji Terui (41 & 44) and Aya Matsui/Takao Koyama (42 & 43). Interesting that there are no crossover with the previous mini-arc; I suppose that it must have taken some time to come up with these out of whole cloth. Other than DB's wedding dress arc, these four episodes make up the longest all filler mini-arc of the series so far as the majority of the filler in both series are one-off standalones instead of arcs.

In some future amazingly brilliant version of Kanzenshuu, can you please make the staff names clickable so we can see which episodes they contributed to?