Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

[gokaiblue]

^
Yeah, can't say I'm too thrilled with that either. I can understand the reasoning, but I still would have preferred an accurate dub.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I think people are so adverse to change they're afraid to have fun. Why do you want to experience the exact same thing but in English (especially to those where English isn't even your default language option)? DBS is still there everything is in tact but the experience is slightly different and imo they've improved over the generic Japanese dialogue.

Just wind down and have some fun. Especially since it is not like Pokemon where the dub is replacing the Japanese. FUNi even have gone as far as to get completely new subs done for DBS.

[Kataphrut]

They're both really good, but I think so far the Kai dub has the edge. That's a simple case of them having had so much practice with the material by the time they got to it. Super is covering content that is either relatively new (the first two arcs) or completely new (the rest). That being said, there is a certain confidence to the acting in Super that the Kai dub ever-so-slightly lacks, and a lot of the new casting choices are pretty spot on.

I give Kai an A-, Super a B+. For the record, I'd give full A's to the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F movies, I think those are actually the finest work Funimation has done dubbing DB. Watching Resurrection F in a cinema dubbed with an audience to laugh along with the jokes was a great experience for me. And when I think about what got me back into Dragon Ball now after years of not caring about it, the thing that comes to mind is always Sean Schemmel's big scream in Battle of Gods.

[VegettoEX]

I think people are so adverse to change they're afraid to have fun. Why do you want to experience the exact same thing but in English (especially to those where English isn't even your default language option)? DBS is still there everything is in tact but the experience is slightly different and imo they've improved over the generic Japanese dialogue.

Just wind down and have some fun. Especially since it is not like Pokemon where the dub is replacing the Japanese. FUNi even have gone as far as to get completely new subs done for DBS.

On top of all the "normal" "reversioning" changes going on, when you get to the point where the actors are making up and publicly distributing their own in-universe head-canon logic about how and why the characters are the way they are, it becomes a clusterfuck of information organization, documentation, and discourse.

For a while, through things like the Dragon Ball Kai and 2013/2015 theatrical film dubs, we were leaving behind the days of "well that's totally untrue even though the dub said that". The fight moved to things like the notoriously-poorly-written-and-sourced fan wikis.

Now we're back to battling the franchise's own distributor.

It's not about "turning your brain off" and being able to "have fun". It's about the licensees seeing fit to change the very essence of the product itself, something we thought we had finally put behind us.

I'm never going to watch the English dub, so its only effects on me are informational. The fact that this is a problem at all in 2018 is... a problem.

[ABED]

I think people are so adverse to change they're afraid to have fun. Why do you want to experience the exact same thing but in English (especially to those where English isn't even your default language option)? DBS is still there everything is in tact but the experience is slightly different and imo they've improved over the generic Japanese dialogue.

Just wind down and have some fun. Especially since it is not like Pokemon where the dub is replacing the Japanese. FUNi even have gone as far as to get completely new subs done for DBS.

FUNi isn't adapting something from scratch. They are providing a language track to something that's been written and animated.

[Forte224]

I think people are so adverse to change they're afraid to have fun. Why do you want to experience the exact same thing but in English (especially to those where English isn't even your default language option)? DBS is still there everything is in tact but the experience is slightly different and imo they've improved over the generic Japanese dialogue.

Just wind down and have some fun. Especially since it is not like Pokemon where the dub is replacing the Japanese. FUNi even have gone as far as to get completely new subs done for DBS.

I'm not just going to shut my brain off to the changes. I did that for years with the OG FUNi dub and came to realize years later that I didn't actually know what the intent of these characters was due to the changes. When I see several of these changes (that are arguably small but objectively numerous) I can't really know whether what I'm hearing is accurate.

I don't understand the "generic Japanese dialogue" complaint. No offense to anyone, but it just seems like a defense mechanism against dub criticism. I'm not saying that's a fact, but it's more what I perceive. I remember that defense from back in the OG FUNi days. Hell, I used to use it. I'm not saying Super's writing is fantastic, but these dub changes certainly do not improve it.

My biggest beef is they could've done an accurate script while still making these "improvements" without altering the intended dialogue and we could all be happy.

[Gligarman]

Personally I've never cared for the Funimation dub and I think it's beyond repair. I've always preferred reading the manga or watching the series in Japanese so I've never had to worry about the plethora of misinformation.

[gokaiblue]

In Funi's defense, they seem to only occasionally do this now in Super. The Future Trunks arc i particular seems pretty faithful.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I think people are so adverse to change they're afraid to have fun. Why do you want to experience the exact same thing but in English (especially to those where English isn't even your default language option)? DBS is still there everything is in tact but the experience is slightly different and imo they've improved over the generic Japanese dialogue.

Just wind down and have some fun. Especially since it is not like Pokemon where the dub is replacing the Japanese. FUNi even have gone as far as to get completely new subs done for DBS.

I'm not just going to shut my brain off to the changes. I did that for years with the OG FUNi dub and came to realize years later that I didn't actually know what the intent of these characters was due to the changes. When I see several of these changes (that are arguably small but objectively numerous) I can't really know whether what I'm hearing is accurate.

I don't understand the "generic Japanese dialogue" complaint. No offense to anyone, but it just seems like a defense mechanism against dub criticism. I'm not saying that's a fact, but it's more what I perceive. I remember that defense from back in the OG FUNi days. Hell, I used to use it. I'm not saying Super's writing is fantastic, but these dub changes certainly do not improve it.

My biggest beef is they could've done an accurate script while still making these "improvements" without altering the intended dialogue and we could all be happy.

The scripts are accurate a couple line changes a few episodes doesn't mean it's inaccurate. And no line change has changed intents, we haven't had anything as drastic as "I am speech". Example Vegeta got angry at Black when Black said he wasn't the opening act and Vegeta being angry at Black was portrayed in both Japanese and English but with different dialogue.

As for generic dialogue, Vegetto's final words to Zamasu "say goodbye" in Japanese for example, or the constant use of "it's over" stuff like that.

Something I don't see anyone ever bringing up is Toei are literally approving the ADR. If they're okay with it...

At the end of the day I think what they've done is great and have made the show x10 better as a result but if others like yourself aren't feeling that way then that's unfortunate but #67 episodes in if the dub constantly annoys people I think it's time to stop watching it.

[VegettoEX]

Something I don't see anyone ever bringing up is Toei are literally approving the ADR. If they're okay with it...

Shueisha and Toei "OK"-ed 4Kids' production of One Piece. That defense doesn't fly with me, because I'm not necessarily interested in their agenda following the original release; I'm interested in that original release, and seeing it faithfully represented from there.

I shouldn't be in a position where I have to document and maintain the integrity of the original work to ridiculous degrees of pedantry because the people who made it don't know or don't care to do so themselves with their licensees.

I'll still do it, but I shouldn't be in that position.

You say "stop watching it", but I've never watched more than a moment of English-dubbed Dragon Ball Super to begin with, and it still affects my work multiple times each day.

[Forte224]

snip

"A couple line changes" doesn't quite cover it. When we have things like Vegeta using a meme and Trunks responding completely different to 18 between versions, that's too far for me.

Your Vegeta argument that dialogue doesn't matter as long as the emotion is the same falls apart when you realize that that can be applied to almost all of OG FUNi. Both "I am" speeches have Goku confidently telling Freeza what he's become. So, does the dialogue really matter as long as the emotion is the same? The answer is yes, it does matter.

I don't know what you mean by ADR.

I have no idea how the dub makes the show 10x better, and no one has been able to explain it to me. As for your "If you don't like it, just don't watch it" comment, that frankly annoys me for 2 reasons:
1. You've consistently harped on Nozawa and the Japanese cast in general. You just did it today in the Broly movie thread. So if you don't like it, just don't watch it, right?
2. I wanted to like this dub. I loved Kai 1.0 and really liked TFC, so I wanted to like this too. If I'm disappointed with it, I have every right to criticise it. If I'm harassing you or trolling dub fans, report me. If I'm simply giving my opinion and fully explaining why, deal with it. Telling me to just not watch it, or apparently not even talk about it, is a slap in the face and communicates to me that my views don't matter.

[Gligarman]

Something I don't see anyone ever bringing up is Toei are literally approving the ADR. If they're okay with it...

Shueisha and Toei "OK"-ed 4Kids' production of One Piece. That defense doesn't fly with me, because I'm not necessarily interested in their agenda following the original release; I'm interested in that original release, and seeing it faithfully represented from there.

I shouldn't be in a position where I have to document and maintain the integrity of the original work to ridiculous degrees of pedantry because the people who made it don't know or don't care to do so themselves with their licensees.

I'll still do it, but I shouldn't be in that position.

You say "stop watching it", but I've never watched more than a moment of English-dubbed Dragon Ball Super to begin with, and it still affects my work multiple times each day.

I 100% agree with your point about Toei approving the dub. They seem to approve anything including Funimation only crediting the localization team in Dragon Ball: Curse of the Blood Rubies. Dragon Ball is truly the Star Wars of anime. It's so popular that they don't know what to do with it and the result is a bunch of bone head decisions we would never see in almost any other anime today.

[Kataphrut]

Yeah, the more I read of some of the responses in this thread, the more I think maybe it's better off...not trusting the opinions of the so-called hardcore fan crowd on the quality of dubs?

It's the same old story, a few punched up lines and suddenly we're in the end times. We're talking about a show that dedicated a whole episode to setting up Yamcha's death pose as the punchline, it's not like meta-jokes are against the spirit of the original. As I said before, the difference between Kai and Super is about the difference between an A- and a B+ but the way people are talking you'd think we were watching Samurai Pizza Cats.I can't think of anything in the Super dub that has caused any long-term controversy or issue with the fanbase. The one big fear was that Sean Schemmel's description of how Super Saiyan Rose makes Goku Black more like Zamasu would infect the canon, but I don't think that even came up in the show itself.

[gokaiblue]

^
Definitely agree that it's a bit of an overreaction. Outside of a few punched up lines, Super's dub is incredibly faithful. It's not like before Kai where all of the script is is punched up lines.

[Forte224]

I don't recall myself or anyone saying it's the end times or calling the dub garbage or anything like that. The title of the thread is "Which would you say is better?" Are explanations why people feel the way they do upsetting?

[gokaiblue]

^
The tone of the responses seems slightly....dramatic to be honest. Nonetheless, to answsrr your question, no it's not upsetting. Explanations for why you prefer one dub or the other are fine, but it does seem like some are being a bit dramatic when all it boils down to are some punched up lines and added jokes amidst what is otherwise an incredibly faithful dub (not as faithful as Kai 1.0, but still pretty faithful).

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

[Dbzfan94]

bargain-basement talentless hacks

It's okay to not like the dub, but really? Little overdramatic don't you think?

[Kamiccolo9]

bargain-basement talentless hacks

It's okay to not like the dub, but really? Little overdramatic don't you think?

Nope. With very few exceptions, the dub voices just aren't very good. You'd think with 20ish years of experience for most of them they could do something worthwhile, but Schemmel in particular sounds like he is literally forcing every single line as of Super. I had a brief moment of hope from Kai and the new movies, but everything since 2015 has been mediocre at best.

The new guys are great though. If only they had the balls to toss out the old group to let some new blood in.

[8000 Saiyan]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

They only really fired Linda Young because she couldn't keep up with the scripts. If she had been able, they would have likely kept her.