Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

[Dbzfan94]

bargain-basement talentless hacks

It's okay to not like the dub, but really? Little overdramatic don't you think?

Nope. With very few exceptions, the dub voices just aren't very good. You'd think with 20ish years of experience for most of them they could do something worthwhile, but Schemmel in particular sounds like he is literally forcing every single line as of Super. I had a brief moment of hope from Kai and the new movies, but everything since 2015 has been mediocre at best.

The new guys are great though. If only they had the balls to toss out the old group to let some new blood in.

I agree that Schemmel sounds more forced when he gets really high-pitched in the new stuff, but he's still great when serious if you ask me.

[gokaiblue]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

Now this reply is not only overdramatic but also insulting to the current Funimation cast who have improved immemsely hot only in their roles but as voice actors in general. They intended to keep Linda Young but let her go only because it was hurting her to keep up with the pace of the script. They most likely wanted to keep Stephanie Nadonly but replaced because they most likely had a falling out. Tiffany Volmer no longer does voice over work, and Meredith McCoy and Brad Jackson were replaced in Kai but came back later, so it was a scheduling thing.

You can dislike the English dub, but to call these now pratically voice over veterans "bargain basement talentless hacks," is disrespectful and ignores all the improvements made by each voice over artist over the course of nearly 20 years working on the show..

[8000 Saiyan]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

Now this reply is not only overdramatic but also insulting to the current Funimation cast who have improved immemsely hot only in their roles but as voice actors in general. They intended to keep Linda Young but let her go only because it was hurting her to keep up with the pace of the script. They most likely wanted to keep Stephanie Nadonly but replaced because they most likely had a falling out. Tiffany Volmer no longer does voice over work, and Meredith McCoy and Brad Jackson were replaced in Kai but came back later, so it was a scheduling thing.

You can dislike the English dub, but to call these now pratically voice over veterans "bargain basement talentless hacks," is disrespectful and ignores all the imprivements made by each voice over artist over the course of nearly 20 years working on the show..

Some have improved, while others haven't. I still can't believe they let Schemmel keep King Kai.

[gokaiblue]

^
Even Schemmel has improved his King Kai, more in his delivery than voice though. I think they left him on because his voice had become so iconic with the character (not to mention Schemmel wanted to and could continue as him), but I do agree that a recast of King Kai would have been beneficial.

[8000 Saiyan]

^
Even Schemmel has improved his King Kai, more in his deliverythan voice though. I think they left him on because his voice had become so iconic with the character (not to mention Schemmel wanted to and could continue as him), but I do agree that a recast of King Kai would have been beneficial.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

[gokaiblue]

You might want to compare his earliest work as King Kai to now. He's definitely inprobed and gotten clearer and slightly more natural as King Kai. It's still not perfect, but it's a huge step from before

[VegettoEX]

You can dislike the English dub, but to call these now pratically voice over veterans "bargain basement talentless hacks," is disrespectful and ignores all the improvements made by each voice over artist over the course of nearly 20 years working on the show..

I may have written it a little more tactfully, but the point remains that when the new members being cast from scratch come in and outperform the existing cast members to a point where the disparity is this insanely pronounced? That certainly says something about the legacy actors and the production/direction methods.

What I think some of you responding are missing is that, outside of me, it's a bunch of diehard dub fans who are turning on this product (the Dragon Ball Super dub).

the difference between Kai and Super is about the difference between an A- and a B+ but the way people are talking you'd think we were watching Samurai Pizza Cats.

Why are you settling for less? The company has shown you that they're capable of more, and have explicitly explained in public how they are consciously doing lesser of a job on Dragon Ball Super for... reasons?

And just to cut this one off at the pass, where this typically goes is:

• "Well, Toei's anime of Dragon Ball Z was bad compared to the manga, so why is that OK?"
• "Well, you didn't even like Dragon Ball Super to begin with, so why shouldn't they 'fix' it?"
• And so on and so forth.

That's not the issue here. The issue is presenting the actual product itself faithfully.

I'm one of a few people that seem to think FUNimation's dub of Battle of Gods was too loose for my liking. My explanation is that Toriyama's comedic sensibilities and timing are already genius there; I'm not interested in someone else's take on that.

If FUNimation wants to script their own characters, they're free to launch another, separate co-production with full creative control. Let Dragon Ball be Dragon Ball.

You may read this as "over-exaggeration", but only if you go out of your way to frame it that way. It's a Dragon Ball conversation on an internet forum attached to... let's say "a large and established" website dedicated exclusively to that series. I don't know what else you'd expect to read here.

[8000 Saiyan]

You might want to compare his earliest work as King Kai to now. He's definitely inprobed and gotten clearer and slightly more natural as King Kai. It's still not perfect, but it's a huge step from before

I've heard his early work and his recent work as King Kai and there's no difference. He has always been terrible as King Kai. When it's time to deliver a serious moment as the character, Schemmel falls flat. It's the same thing with McFarland's Roshi. Their renditions have no gravitas.

[sintzu]

The company has explicitly explained in public how they are consciously doing lesser of a job on Dragon Ball Super for... reasons?

This is new to me, what did they say exactly ? with how good of a job they did with Kai I just assumed they'd try to do an even better job with Super.

[gokaiblue]

You might want to compare his earliest work as King Kai to now. He's definitely inprobed and gotten clearer and slightly more natural as King Kai. It's still not perfect, but it's a huge step from before

I've heard his early work and his recent work as King Kai and there's no difference. He has always been terrible as King Kai. When it's time to deliver a serious moment as the character, Schemmel falls flat.

I'll go back and do my own comparison then, but I hear a difference to be honest. Early Schemmel King Kai is much more muffled than now. I do suppose it depends on how far back you go. If you only go from the Cell Saga onwards of the original Z dub, then I can understand how you can't hear a difference.

I get what most are saying about Super, but I still feel it's nitpicking slightly. I will reiterate this again: What it really boils down to is a few punched up lines in an otherwise faithful adaptation of Super.

Super's dub isn't perfect, and I do wish they would go back and fix some things, but it is leagues better than Funimation's early work on the franchise. I get how people feel cheated after hearing Kai's impressively 1:1 translation only for Super to slightly fall short, but those moments where it slightly goes off script don't harm the integrity of an already spectacular dub. We're way beyond the days of the original and its English dub being two separate shows. Now it feels like the same show but with a slightly different script at times.

[WittyUsername]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

Okay, you’re free to not like the voices, but come on. “Bargain-basement talentless hacks”? Sean Schemmel has two decades of experience as a voice actor at this point. You don’t have to like his performance, but surely you can at least acknowledge that him, Sabat and Strait have come a long way since 1999?

[WittyUsername]

^
Even Schemmel has improved his King Kai, more in his deliverythan voice though. I think they left him on because his voice had become so iconic with the character (not to mention Schemmel wanted to and could continue as him), but I do agree that a recast of King Kai would have been beneficial.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I’m not saying that I’m crazy about Schemmel’s voice for Kaio, but it’s definitely improved compared to how it was back in the day.

[8000 Saiyan]

Once again, I disagree about Schemmel's Kaio.

I have to admit that while I'm not really a big fan of the Funimation cast, I think calling them "bargain-basement talentless hacks" is quite harsh. Kinda reminds me of Kunzait saying that it's pathetic that they took 10 years to finally improve in the roles.

[sintzu]

Yeah, the more I read of some of the responses in this thread, the more I think maybe it's better off...not trusting the opinions of the so-called hardcore fan crowd on the quality of dubs ?

It's best not to trust them on anything as they expect perfection when the original product itself is flawed.

We're way beyond the days of the original and its English dub being two separate shows. Now it feels like the same show but with a slightly different script at times.

Some of the changes may be done to avoid or slightly fix some of the issues they'v read fans complain about in the original version. I like an accurate dub like everyone but if some slight changes will make my experience better then I'm open to them being made. One example I've read is they make things easier to understand. From the clips I've seen Goku is more serious in the dub which helps the overall story for me as my main issue with Super is Goku's childish behavior so slightly changing that is a welcomed improvement for me.

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

Okay, you’re free to not like the voices, but come on. “Bargain-basement talentless hacks”? Sean Schemmel has two decades of experience as a voice actor at this point. You don’t have to like his performance, but surely you can at least acknowledge that him, Sabat and Strait have come a long way since 1999?

Strait's the best one out of the three you mentioned. He's not bad.

I'd give Schemmel and Sabat credit if their delivery hadn't gotten worse since the first Kai dub. If a voice actor that wasn't great to begin with peaked 10 years ago, you don't keep him on; you cut him loose.

[WittyUsername]

Once again, I disagree about Schemmel's Kaio.

I guess your mileage may vary on whether or not the changes he’s made for the voice are an improvement compared to how he used to sound in the role, but there definitely are changes to the voice. His Kaio is less muffled and more emotive nowadays. Back in 1999, Schemmel’s Kaio sounded like he was constantly talking with his mouth full.

[WittyUsername]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

Okay, you’re free to not like the voices, but come on. “Bargain-basement talentless hacks”? Sean Schemmel has two decades of experience as a voice actor at this point. You don’t have to like his performance, but surely you can at least acknowledge that him, Sabat and Strait have come a long way since 1999?

Strait's the best one out of the three you mentioned. He's not bad.

I'd give Schemmel and Sabat credit if their delivery hadn't gotten worse since the first Kai dub. If a voice actor that wasn't great to begin with peaked 10 years ago, you don't keep him on; you cut him loose.

Even if your opinion is that they’ve gotten worse, calling them “bargain-basement talentless hacks” still doesn’t seem justified. They’re not just some guys off the street anymore. They have definitely improved a good deal compared to how they were in 1999. You don’t have to consider them to be good in their roles, but that doesn’t make them talentless hacks.

[gokaiblue]

Strait's the best one out of the three you mentioned. He's not bad.

I'd give Schemmel and Sabat credit if their delivery hadn't gotten worse since the first Kai dub. If a voice actor that wasn't great to begin with peaked 10 years ago, you don't keep him on; you cut him loose.

Gokng to have to disagree with you on their delivery being worse since Kai. I'd say it's actually improved immemsely, especially for Schemmel. Ever sonce Xenoverse, he's been an English Nozawa essentially, and he brings that to TFC and Super. It just seems so natural. The only times where he feels even slightly forced is when he plays Goku Black. Sabat continues to improve as Vegeta, but his improvement is more subtle than Schemmel's. He has some really good moments as Piccolo, but it does sometimes sound slightly forced there.

[Kunzait_83]

I mean, I'm done with Funimation's dub because they insist on sticking with bargain-basement talentless hacks for their main cast while bringing in new guys who are legimately good for the new people. If they gave a damn about the quality of their product, they'd quietly and respectfully shove Schemmel and company out the front door like they did Linda Young, and recast them with somebody worth a damn.

Seriously, we're past the days where Funimation had to hire off the street. The only reason these guys are even still around is due to inertia and Sabat having moved so far up the company ladder.

Look, I'm gonna be even more blunt about this than is usual even for me: these guys (Sabat, Schemmel, Straight even, etc.): they just AREN'T good actors. They never WERE good actors, and its safe to say they never WILL BE good in these roles; with their much ballyhooed "improvement" over the years having been ridiculously incremental and marginal at best, with fans blatantly grading these folks on a curve.

The outraged responses to Kamiccolo's above post I find to be the most telling. I've found time after time after time throughout the years that people give these actors a pass for two main reasons:

1) Stubbornly clung-to nostalgic goodwill, resulting in a personal investment in them as people.

and 2) Ridiculously lowered standards stemming from mainly consuming cartoons made for insanely small, young children and incredibly limited experience with "real" actors in actual works for grown-ass adults.

Children's cartoons in the United States (especially during the 80s and 90s and when DBZ was first being dubbed) often bringing with them MUCH lowered standards for quality control and content than is found for most adult works in general or even in similar children's fare throughout Japan (where voice acting is overall taken MUCH more seriously): and the FUNimation version throughout the years has proven itself to be nothing if not the embodiment of dragging along with it, to wildly varying and inconsistent degrees, holdout elements of its poor mid/late 90s standards and creative direction throughout the ensuing later years/decades.

What dub fans have always failed to realize is that from people like me, THIS HAS NEVER BEEN ANYTHING PERSONAL with these guys. I don't give a flying shit about Chris Sabat or Sean Schemmel or Sonny Straight or Eric Vale or any of the rest of the "old guard" as individuals. They're complete and utter abject strangers to me. I wish them absolutely NO ill will or bad fortune in their personal lives whatsoever, obviously. None of this has a DAMN thing to do with them as people.

All I am is a long-time (much, much longer than most at this point) fan of this particular Japanese anime who has simply been consistently dissatisfied and grossly turned off with their work on it as actors throughout the years.

I have found throughout the years their "acting talents" to have been disastrously lacking (both on a personal subjective AND critically objective level) to the point of being a complete embarrassment and stain upon this series from moment one all the way up through now, across virtually almost ALL its incarnations that they've been a part of. And the idea that they are considered "iconic" in these roles by the Western fanbase at large to be cringingly ludicrous and, on some level, reflecting poorly on the fanbase overall as being filled with people with little to no quality standards whatsoever, concerned more with "tradition" and with being continually fed what they're used to from their early childhoods than they are with seeing actual good work come about from this series' official English language versions.

These guys have ALWAYS flat-out sucked in these roles. Their pinpoint degree of suck has fluctuated across the years and DB-related projects: but its almost NEVER risen above a certain tremendously lowered threshold. Fans unfortunately are INCREDIBLY attached to them as iconography from their childhoods, which they internalize as part of their own personal identity: so any criticism or negativity towards these poor performances, however obviously warranted or justified, is taken as a personal attack on THEM as people. Which of course is beyond ridiculous, asinine, and childishly immature in itself.

I'm tired of soft-shoeing this and tiptoeing around people's personal feelings about this stupid shit: the "classic" FUNimation cast are simply objectively bad actors, who only lucked into these roles because they happened to get plucked off the streets from obscurity to take part in what just happens to be a lightning-in-a-bottle, seemingly "bulletproof" and ever-enduring classic franchise, aimed at an audience of un-critical elementary school children who were largely sheltered and over-parented from viewing much of anything else to impact their standards beyond bargain basement kiddie cartoons anyways, and have since grown up into a present day popular culture that has fetishized the idea of "childhood nostalgia" to thoroughly absurd, over-the-top degrees.

I know its never going to happen obviously, but in an ideal world of pure hypotheticals? Get rid of ALL OF THEM and start 100% completely from scratch altogether: it should've happened DECADES ago, and Kamiccolo is spot on correct that the main reasons it hasn't is simply raw inertia and backstage nepotism. And fans bending themselves over backwards to make excuses for their terrible work (both right now and all consistently throughout these past 20 years) because of their personal sentimental attachment and investment is just sad and frustrating in itself.

[Gligarman]

I may have written it a little more tactfully, but the point remains that when the new members being cast from scratch come in and outperform the existing cast members to a point where the disparity is this insanely pronounced? That certainly says something about the legacy actors and the production/direction methods.

What I think some of you responding are missing is that, outside of me, it's a bunch of diehard dub fans who are turning on this product (the Dragon Ball Super dub).

the difference between Kai and Super is about the difference between an A- and a B+ but the way people are talking you'd think we were watching Samurai Pizza Cats.

Why are you settling for less? The company has shown you that they're capable of more, and have explicitly explained in public how they are consciously doing lesser of a job on Dragon Ball Super for... reasons?

And just to cut this one off at the pass, where this typically goes is:

• "Well, Toei's anime of Dragon Ball Z was bad compared to the manga, so why is that OK?"
• "Well, you didn't even like Dragon Ball Super to begin with, so why shouldn't they 'fix' it?"
• And so on and so forth.

That's not the issue here. The issue is presenting the actual product itself faithfully.

I'm one of a few people that seem to think FUNimation's dub of Battle of Gods was too loose for my liking. My explanation is that Toriyama's comedic sensibilities and timing are already genius there; I'm not interested in someone else's take on that.

If FUNimation wants to script their own characters, they're free to launch another, separate co-production with full creative control. Let Dragon Ball be Dragon Ball.

You may read this as "over-exaggeration", but only if you go out of your way to frame it that way. It's a Dragon Ball conversation on an internet forum attached to... let's say "a large and established" website dedicated exclusively to that series. I don't know what else you'd expect to read here.

Once again, I 100% agree. If Funimation cared so much about quality then they would't have had to redub the show so many times to begin with. At this point the dub is beyond salvaging. A lot of these characters were simply miscast and they're far too locked in to replace. It's as if they feel their side of the production is untouchable so they just do whatever they want and balk at criticism. In fact I believe the dub is getting more criticism now than ever because Super wasn't localized until over a year after its Japanese release so a lot of fans saw it subtitled for the first time.