Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:29 pm

ABED wrote:It's the same dialog, though maybe slightly more on the nose. I don't know how on the nose dialog doesn't just compound problematic plotting.
Because "more on the nose" isn't always a bad thing.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:31 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
ABED wrote:It's the same dialog, though maybe slightly more on the nose. I don't know how on the nose dialog doesn't just compound problematic plotting.
Because "more on the nose" isn't always a bad thing.
Right, but while ep66 ckarifying dialogue doesn't go towards "Captain Obvious" levels of on the nose (at least imo), clarifying it to the point where it's literally stating what's in front of you is a bit much.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:33 pm

gokaiblue wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:
ABED wrote:It's the same dialog, though maybe slightly more on the nose. I don't know how on the nose dialog doesn't just compound problematic plotting.
Because "more on the nose" isn't always a bad thing.
Right, but while ep66 ckarifying dialogue doesn't go towards "Captain Obvious" levels of on the nose (at least imo), clarifying it to the point where it's literally stating what's in front of you is a bit much.
Hence my punch in the face example.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:35 pm

The dialogue there wasn't obviously enough to warrant criticism, though. Not to me.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:36 pm

Fionordequester wrote:The dialogue there wasn't obviously enough to warrant criticism, though. Not to me.
It doesn't deserve any praise either.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:39 pm

ABED wrote:
gokaiblue wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:
Because "more on the nose" isn't always a bad thing.
Right, but while ep66 ckarifying dialogue doesn't go towards "Captain Obvious" levels of on the nose (at least imo), clarifying it to the point where it's literally stating what's in front of you is a bit much.
Hence my punch in the face example.
Exactly. While it hasn't happened yet, we don't want it to devolve into it. I don't think it will though, to be honest. If something truly is unclear, then the dub should clarify it while still keeping the line in tact. After all, for some, this is there first viewing of the series.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for leaving things vague so they can be discovered upon future viewings
ABED wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:The dialogue there wasn't obviously enough to warrant criticism, though. Not to me.
It doesn't deserve any praise either.
What did it deserve? A half hearted shrug? :D

In all seriousness, it wasn't really that big of a change tbh
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:43 pm

It deserves an eyeroll. Look, on the nose dialog isn't the worst thing, but it is annoying. I can't think of specific examples, but I recall DB/DBZ creating filler by having characters telling us what's happening on screen.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:19 pm

gokaiblue wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: Strait's the best one out of the three you mentioned. He's not bad.

I'd give Schemmel and Sabat credit if their delivery hadn't gotten worse since the first Kai dub. If a voice actor that wasn't great to begin with peaked 10 years ago, you don't keep him on; you cut him loose.
Gokng to have to disagree with you on their delivery being worse since Kai. I'd say it's actually improved immemsely, especially for Schemmel. Ever sonce Xenoverse, he's been an English Nozawa essentially, and he brings that to TFC and Super. It just seems so natural. The only times where he feels even slightly forced is when he plays Goku Black. Sabat continues to improve as Vegeta, but his improvement is more subtle than Schemmel's. He has some really good moments as Piccolo, but it does sometimes sound slightly forced there.
Really?
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:49 pm

Yeah, I don’t hear a trace of Nozawa in Schemmel’s Goku, either. Not that that’s a bad thing, mind you. I think it’s more important for the dub actor to sound like the character they’re playing than the seiyū’s performance.

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:57 pm

Lunatic Fringe wrote:Yeah, I don’t hear a trace of Nozawa in Schemmel’s Goku, either. Not that that’s a bad thing, mind you. I think it’s more important for the dub actor to sound like the character they’re playing than the seiyū’s performance.
Eh...I can kinda hear it. Not in their voice, oh no. But in terms of their personality? Yeah, they have the same youthful exuberance, the same sort of "whine" to their voice when they're complaining, and both are fairly eccentric.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:01 pm

Lunatic Fringe wrote:Yeah, I don’t hear a trace of Nozawa in Schemmel’s Goku, either. Not that that’s a bad thing, mind you. I think it’s more important for the dub actor to sound like the character they’re playing than the seiyū’s performance.
I often hear Nozawa in Schemmel's performance as Goku. It's not consistently there, but when it is, it really shones. Mostly, I hear it in some of the more energetic moments and screams. It's not 1:1 perse, but it most certainly is present.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:14 pm

I'm not sure why some people are trying to force Kamiccolo and Kunzait to be more positive towards the Funimation cast. They are allowed to not like them.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:56 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:I'm not sure why some people are trying to force Kamiccolo and Kunzait to be more positive towards the Funimation cast. They are allowed to not like them.
Well, I haven't been following Kamiccolo's posts; but I have been following Kunzait's. And I don't think his dislike for FUNi's dub is the issue. It's more the way his views are presented that throws some folks for a loop, I think. He's not breaking any rules, but he's not making it easy to engage him, either.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:00 am

Well, this WAS a fun and interesting thread for like two pages . . .

Anyway, I definitely noticed the jokey tone in Super. I have speculated if Funimation was inspired by DBZ Abriged and as such low key wanted to immitate it.

“Super Saiyan Please” literally sounds like a line from TFS. In fact, I’m sure it was in an episode.

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:55 am

Fionordequester wrote:Heck, Episode 66 had ANOTHER example of this; where Gowasu was explaining how Potara Fusion worked. The Japanese script in Episode 66 just said "fusions between gods last forever, but fusions between mortals is temporary"; but the English script further clarified that by saying "Any fusion involving a god is permanent...[So they don't BOTH need to be gods; we just need a god in there to make it permanent]" (hence why Old Kai's fusion with a mortal has never diffused. And why Merged Zamasu didn't defuse like Vegetto did).
In this case, I figured that Old Kai never diffusing provided the necessary subtext to reach that conclusion together.
Fionordequester wrote:And I think that's part of why I enjoy their little tweaks as much as I do. It's like every episode is getting a second chance to tell me what's going on! And that's exciting to me! You can understand that, right?
I do understand that, but, again, I think that chance was also there, waiting to be tapped, in the subbed version of the episodes that you were previously watching with piecing the in-universe details together in mind. I sincerely believe that all you needed to do was watch the episode again with different priorities going in. That the over-explaining-dub coincided with this second chance is, I believe, coincidence. But we can't look into the alternate timeline where you watched it subbed the second time around, so I'm willing to agree to disagree. :thumbup:
VegettoEX wrote:That all being said, I think it's a super-hack move to start getting so pedantic you're quoting dictionaries.
I mean, when the point of contention seems to stem from one party legitimately not knowing what a specific word means, I think busting the dictionary out is more than an appropriate gesture of clarification. Though, my doing of it being the second instance probably shows that such a gesture was futile anyway.

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:03 am

We’re still getting into the debate about whether it’s okay to call people “basement-level hacks” (which Id be pretty insulted by, especially at the implication that I live in my mother’s basement) just because you don’t like their performance in a dub for a children’s cartoon? In that case, is it fair to call Toriyama a hack, given that by all accounts, he’s a pretty lazy and sub par writer who’s terrible at remembering things that he wrote?

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Fionordequester » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:00 am

WittyUsername wrote:We’re still getting into the debate about whether it’s okay to call people “basement-level hacks” (which Id be pretty insulted by, especially at the implication that I live in my mother’s basement) just because you don’t like their performance in a dub for a children’s cartoon? In that case, is it fair to call Toriyama a hack, given that by all accounts, he’s a pretty lazy and sub par writer who’s terrible at remembering things that he wrote?
I'm obviously not Kunzait. But I think his answer would be something like...

"Yes, it would be ok to call Akira Toriyama a basement-dwelling hack. Just don't expect me to let that go without engaging you in another debate. Not because I think you did anything wrong, but because I disagree with you".

Is that right, Kunzait?
Zephyr wrote:II do understand that, but, again, I think that chance was also there, waiting to be tapped, in the subbed version of the episodes that you were previously watching with piecing the in-universe details together in mind. I sincerely believe that all you needed to do was watch the episode again with different priorities going in. That the over-explaining-dub coincided with this second chance is, I believe, coincidence. But we can't look into the alternate timeline where you watched it subbed the second time around, so I'm willing to agree to disagree. :thumbup:
Thank you. But yeah, my point with all that was that I believe there are arguments to be made to FUNi's way of dubbing Super. Don't have to agree with me, mind. I just don't think Chris Sabat is coming at things from the same perspective as, say, Barry Watson.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:31 am

WittyUsername wrote:We’re still getting into the debate about whether it’s okay to call people “basement-level hacks” (which Id be pretty insulted by, especially at the implication that I live in my mother’s basement) just because you don’t like their performance in a dub for a children’s cartoon? In that case, is it fair to call Toriyama a hack, given that by all accounts, he’s a pretty lazy and sub par writer who’s terrible at remembering things that he wrote?
Yes, it's fair to call anyone a hack if you believe that they're incredibly bad at what they do. If you think Toriyama's a hack, call him a hack. You wouldn't be the first, and you would't be the last. It's not a personal insult. Naturally, some people will disagree with your assessment, but it's unlikely that you'll have someone spend over a dozen pages insisting that it's not fair to even have such a low opinion of his work. That would be silly.

Pretty sure "basement level" is referring to low quality, not literal basement dwelling.

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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by gokaiblue » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:05 am

XanatosVanBadass wrote:Well, this WAS a fun and interesting thread for like two pages . . .

Anyway, I definitely noticed the jokey tone in Super. I have speculated if Funimation was inspired by DBZ Abriged and as such low key wanted to immitate it.

“Super Saiyan Please” literally sounds like a line from TFS. In fact, I’m sure it was in an episode.
Yeah, it definitely feels like they're taking cues from TFS. It adds a little to the dub, but I wouldn't miss it if they decided to not add in those jokes. To me, the jokes are just there.
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Re: Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:41 am

Zephyr wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:We’re still getting into the debate about whether it’s okay to call people “basement-level hacks” (which Id be pretty insulted by, especially at the implication that I live in my mother’s basement) just because you don’t like their performance in a dub for a children’s cartoon? In that case, is it fair to call Toriyama a hack, given that by all accounts, he’s a pretty lazy and sub par writer who’s terrible at remembering things that he wrote?
Yes, it's fair to call anyone a hack if you believe that they're incredibly bad at what they do. If you think Toriyama's a hack, call him a hack. You wouldn't be the first, and you would't be the last. It's not a personal insult. Naturally, some people will disagree with your assessment, but it's unlikely that you'll have someone spend over a dozen pages insisting that it's not fair to even have such a low opinion of his work. That would be silly.

Pretty sure "basement level" is referring to low quality, not literal basement dwelling.
I mean, I initially said "bargain-basement talentless hack," so I'm not sure how that evolved into "basement-level," which sounds like some shitty Comic Vine tier list title. "Bargain-Basement" is a fairly common American idiom meaning "something you find for cheap," so maybe these guys aren't native speakers, or are British or Australian or something.

Or, again, just looking to be offended so they can complain about people calling them offended.
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