Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

[WittyUsername]

We aren't asking for a direct translation, but a translation that keeps the soul of the characters and story and keeps as close as possible while making sure the dialog flows well is not a big ask.

so directly translating each and every line from the original as closely as possible can end up making things sound awkward and stilted

That's a huge cop out and no one is asking for that. Yu Yu Hakusho didn't just change things up in order make them flow. Is it too much to ask that Kaio-sama's humor be pun based?

YYH can come across as a rather generic shonen anime from the 90s, so the sharper tongue and edgier dialogue that the dub provided is probably considered a welcome change of pace.

That's a disingenuous belief. The dialog isn't sharper tongued or edgier than the original. That view is a reach and I'm not sure anyone actually believes it. It comes across more like they want to stick with the dub and concoct a reason that sounds better than a mere personal preference.

A “translation that keeps the soul of the characters and story and keeps as close as possible while making sure the dialogue flows well” is exactly what I was suggesting.

I also never suggested that the dub of YYH didn’t make some notable changes to the original. I was merely providing a likely reason for why some people prefer the dub for that show over the original. Also, pun based humor can be difficult to translate from one language to another.

Finally, the dub of YYH definitely seemed like it tried to be wittier than the original, hence why nearly every word that came out of Yusuke’s mouth seemed to try and emphasize what a smartass he was. It also had a tendency to use a lot of swear words, in addition to making certain characters seem a lot more sadistic, such as the tournament announcer girl. I never claimed any of that stuff makes it better. I don’t even care for YYH. Again, I was just providing an explanation for why that dub is held in such high regard, despite being an early Funimation dub.

[ABED]

Then what about my comment implies that wasn't what I was asking for when I said I don't like when dubs try to spice things up and add "humor"?

[WittyUsername]

Then what about my comment implies that wasn't what I was asking for when I said I don't like when dubs try to spice things up and add "humor"?

When I said that I don’t think it’s a big issue for dubs to try and spice things up, I never suggested that meant I think it’s okay to radically change things up, or to add humor in scenes that are supposed to be serious. That’s what the dub of Z often did, which most people here rightfully take issue with. I just said that I don’t think occasionally trying (and keep in mind, trying is not always succeeding) to give the dialogue more personality is an inherently bad thing, so long as the dialogue in question remains true to who the characters are, and so long as the overall story and mood are kept in tact.

[Blondiebear_17]

We aren't asking for a direct translation, but a translation that keeps the soul of the characters and story and keeps as close as possible while making sure the dialog flows well is not a big ask.

so directly translating each and every line from the original as closely as possible can end up making things sound awkward and stilted

That's a huge cop out and no one is asking for that. Yu Yu Hakusho didn't just change things up in order make them flow. Is it too much to ask that Kaio-sama's humor be pun based?

YYH can come across as a rather generic shonen anime from the 90s, so the sharper tongue and edgier dialogue that the dub provided is probably considered a welcome change of pace.

That's a disingenuous belief. The dialog isn't sharper tongued or edgier than the original. That view is a reach and I'm not sure anyone actually believes it. It comes across more like they want to stick with the dub and concoct a reason that sounds better than a mere personal preference.

Sorry but I assume anybody who waits for the dub is a fan of the dub and that they would want Funimation to provide their take on the show. Again I don't see how this hurts anybody since the sub is widely available for anyone who wants to watch it. My opinion is that if one wanted the purest version of the series they could just watch the sub. Funimation has always operated more or less like this not sure whats new about them doing things the way they always have.

[8000 Saiyan]

Finally, the dub of YYH definitely seemed like it tried to be wittier than the original, hence why nearly every word that came out of Yusuke’s mouth seemed to try and emphasize what a smartass he was.It also had a tendency to use a lot of swear words, in addition to making certain characters seem a lot more sadistic, such as the tournament announcer girl. I never claimed any of that stuff makes it better. I don’t even care for YYH. Again, I was just providing an explanation for why that dub is held in such high regard, despite being an early Funimation dub.

Well, they didn't need to rewrite most of Yusuke's dialogue to make it clear that he's a punk since he tends to be rude to authority figures.

Sorry but I assume anybody who waits for the dub is a fan of the dub and that they would want Funimation to provide their take on the show. Again I don't see how this hurts anybody since the sub is widely available for anyone who wants to watch it. My opinion is that if one wanted the purest version of the series they could just watch the sub. Funimation has always operated more or less like this not sure whats new about them doing things the way they always have.

When I watch a dub, I want to make sure that I'm watching the same show I was watching in Japanese. I don't want the English voice actors to sound like the Japanese ones, but I want a dub that respects the Japanese version.

[ABED]

I find that to be a weak argument. So long as the original is available, any adaptation can do whatever they want with it? It's not new, but what does that have to do with anything? FUNi shouldn't be providing their take on the show. Their job is to adapt the show into English and distribute it. They aren't artists. The story is the one Toriyama created, not FUNi.

Also, the original wasn't available in the US until 2000 and FUNi made a lot of changes, both large and small.

[Forte224]

Agreed with ABED. Also, it affects things when having discussions with people. If they watched the dub and you watched the sub, there could be discrepancies that are brought up that just don't need to be there.

[WittyUsername]

Well, they didn't need to rewrite most of Yusuke's dialogue to make it clear that he's a punk since he tends to be rude to authority figures.

Like I said, they were obviously trying to make the dialogue wittier and more colorful than the Japanese version. Whether or not that’s a good or bad thing is up to the viewer. In any case, from what I can tell, while the dub of Super does seem to take a somewhat similar approach as the YYH dub, it still seems to generally be pretty faithful to the Japanese version. If the dub was an example of Funimation regressing back to their old practices, I wouldn’t have made this thread to begin with.

[ABED]

It wasn't in any way wittier. The dialog hit you over the head with everything. What lines struck you as something anyone would consider wittier than the original?

[WittyUsername]

I said “trying”, as in, not everyone is going to agree with it. As I’ve already stated, I don’t even have much of an opinion YYH in any capacity. I’m not really an anime fan for the most part.

With that being said, If I had to think of an example of dialogue that might be considered by some to be wittier than the original, it might be something like “I’m sorry. When I kill people I’m used to them staying dead.” If I recall, the Japanese version of that was simply Yusuke saying that there’s no way Toguro could still be alive.

[ABED]

That's not clever. More colorful, maybe. I don't know if they are trying to do so, but if they are trying to make the dialog wittier, they do the opposite. It appeals to the lowest common denominator. And I hate it when they are so on the nose. In the original, it's a big deal when Yusuke kisses Keiko at the very end of the series, and yet the dub has him telling Toguro they will grow old together.

[WittyUsername]

I wouldn’t say the particular line of dialogue I cited was anymore on the nose than the Japanese version. It was more Yusuke being a smartass than anything.

[ABED]

I wouldn’t say the particular line of dialogue I cited was anymore on the nose than the Japanese version. It was more Yusuke being a smartass than anything.

I didn't say that was on the nose.

Back to DB, the added humor is often not on character or changes the character. They're broad joke for the sake of broad jokes.

[Blondiebear_17]

I wouldn’t say the particular line of dialogue I cited was anymore on the nose than the Japanese version. It was more Yusuke being a smartass than anything.

I didn't say that was on the nose.

Back to DB, the added humor is often not on character or changes the character. They're broad joke for the sake of broad jokes.

The jokes are often purposely fan-servicey and that they know a lot of people actually appreciate them especially the Bulma and Vegeta ones.

[Robo4900]

I wouldn’t say the particular line of dialogue I cited was anymore on the nose than the Japanese version. It was more Yusuke being a smartass than anything.

I didn't say that was on the nose.

Back to DB, the added humor is often not on character or changes the character. They're broad joke for the sake of broad jokes.

The jokes are often purposely fan-servicey and that they know a lot of people actually appreciate them especially the Bulma and Vegeta ones.

I don't know if this would be considered a spoiler or not, so I'm going to err on the side of caution for this example from the latest episode of the Super dub, which I think relates to what you're saying there:
[spoiler]The HFIL joke in the latest episode of Super is really stupid. You'll only get the joke if you're familiar with the background of it, even if you are aware of its background it's not that funny, and if aren't in on the joke, it'll add to the massive confusion that comes with the shenanigans of the episode.
And there wasn't even a vague hint of something like this in the original.[/spoiler]
In addition, I'd actually like to bring up something from the TFC dub... The TeamFourStar scene.
TFS did a great job with it, and it's a good laugh, but... Well... Like the afforementioned joke, the whole scene is dumb references and jokes you'd only get if you're in on them. I think it does work in that scene, but none of this was in the original Japanese... If it was a one-off, I wouldn't mind, I'd say it's a pretty cool thing, but there's so much sacrificing of accuracy in favour of jokes, it just puts me off the modern dubs.

[Forte224]

They actually made a joke about [spoiler]HFIL?[/spoiler] That's...really random. What was it even in reference too? I can't seem to find a clip.

[Lord Beerus]

They actually made a joke about [spoiler]HFIL?[/spoiler] That's...really random. What was it even in reference too? I can't seem to find a clip.

HFIL is an abbreviate for Home For Infinite Losers. Which is the name of the eight episodes of the "Saban dub" for Dragon Ball Z which aired on November 1, 1996.

In that episode, which was pure filler, Goku falls of Snake Way and ends up in hell. However, the shirt that Goz and Mez wear, instead of having "HELL" written on them, are digitally edited by taking the bottom two lines from the middle letters, and reading "HFIL" instead of "HELL". This change was made due to FCC regulations regarding usage of the word "Hell" in Saturday morning children's programing.

When FUNimation production Barry Watson was asked about this specifically an interview with Animerica magazine in 1998, he said this:

To be honest, that “Home for Infinite Losers” was about the best we could do. Something you have to realise is that to eliminate something like that, there are 30 frames for every second of animation, our painters have to work through about 15 to 20 minutes of footage, so you’re talking about literally tens of thousands of cels to clean up. We do try our best to keep to the spirit of the original animation and to keep in line with a lot of the Japanese spirit of the show.

[Forte224]

They actually made a joke about [spoiler]HFIL?[/spoiler] That's...really random. What was it even in reference too? I can't seem to find a clip.

HFIL is an abbreviate for Home For Infinite Losers. Which is the name of the eight episodes of the "Saban dub" for Dragon Ball Z which aired on November 1, 1996.

In that episode, which was pure filler, Goku falls of Snake Way and ends up in hell. However, the shirt that Goz and Mez wear, instead of having "HELL" written on them, are digitally edited by taking the bottom two lines from the middle letters, and reading "HFIL" instead of "HELL". This change was made due to FCC regulations regarding usage of the word "Hell" in Saturday morning children's programing.

When FUNimation production Barry Watson was asked about this specifically an interview with Animerica magazine in 1998, he said this:

To be honest, that “Home for Infinite Losers” was about the best we could do. Something you have to realise is that to eliminate something like that, there are 30 frames for every second of animation, our painters have to work through about 15 to 20 minutes of footage, so you’re talking about literally tens of thousands of cels to clean up. We do try our best to keep to the spirit of the original animation and to keep in line with a lot of the Japanese spirit of the show.

I know all that. I was asking what the joke in the Super dub about it was.

[8000 Saiyan]

Did they seriously put in a HFIL joke in Super? This makes me glad that I don't watch the Super dub, aside from the fact that the Funimation cast has become far too predictable.

I'm not sure what motivates Funimation not let go of their old habits of adding unnecessary stuff in their recent Dragon Ball dubs.

Oh, wait, their dubs tend to have this kind of stuff. Take for example, a scene from episode 7 of Prison School. In the Japanese version, a female character tells a male character this: "You keep talking to me like we're on equal terms, but I'm a 2nd-year. You have to address a superior more politely". In the dub, the character says: "Do you have a stick up your ass? Or are you one of those dumb-ass Gamergate creepshows?"

The Funimation writer was basically referencing to the Gamergate controversy. First of all, I don't care what the writer thinks of Gamergate and secondly, he shouldn't try injecting his political agendas in anime. Funimation has done this with other shows, too.

They're supposed to adapt a Japanese show into English, not make their own version of the show.

[TheBigBoy]

I actually thought the HFIL line was pretty funny....it's a gag in a gag episode...relax.