Could Original Z & Kai be combined into an hypothetically future release (+recut feature for pre Z DB)

[Dragon Sponge]

In this thread i would like to know from you Guys, what you think about the possibility of putting both Z & Kai into one release, and also giving pre Z DB, an filler recut feature as a substitute for having no Kai Version, an idea i already talked about in this thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41777&p=1487675#p1487675).

Some people might think a task like this would be impossible, because of all the differences Z & Kai have, but i still think it could be done in some ways. Let say there is a worldwide Bluray release of an ultimate Dragon Ball collection that features every finished Dragon Ball TV Series (including all Movies & Specials) consiting out of several volumes, and using uncropped, color corrected, HD remasters of the Dragon Box footage. In this release pre Z DB would get an recut feature that skips expendable filler scenes when activated, while Z would include Kai as an option. I give you two possibilities how it could be done:

1. Putting both Z & Kai on the Discs

In this possibility both the Z episodes & their Kai equivalents would be put on the Disc, resulting in having less Z episodes on the Disc which would mean that more Discs had to be produced for each Z volume which would increase the price a bit. And pre Z DB would get a simple Recut Mode that would cut many filler scenes but also leave some in like it was done in Kai. The collection would also include a Marathon Mode which would skip the openings, recaps, titlecards, previews & endings, which could also be combined with pre Z DBs recut mode.

2. Having only Z footage on the Discs & replacing Kai with a similar recut feature

In this possibility, instead of putting the actual Kai alongside Z into the Discs, it would only get a recut feature like pre Z DB, containing both the Original & Kai Dubs with the original Kikuchi Placement(+ insert Songs). But here you would have 3 recut options, which could be used with every voicetrack:

[spoiler]Antidrag Mode, which just cuts unnecessary scenes that drag on for too long but leave all the filler episodes in. This mode would also be inculded in GT.

Kai Mode, which cuts most filler but also leaves some in and in Z it would include all the cuts from Kai execpt for minor ones that only made fight scenes faster.

Manga Mode, which would cut everything not from Manga that can be removed, exactly like its done in "IAmTheMilkMan"s fan recuts.
(viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34866&hilit=Dragon+Ball+Recut)

All three of them could be combined with the Marathon Mode

In terms of the english version, pre Z DB, all removed Z filler, TV Specials & the Movies would get redubbed with the Kai Cast, in order to have a consistend Kai Dub for the whole Series. The Johnson/Faulconnar & limited Kikuchi/Sumitomo scores could be included as an option, but they aren´t really needed and exluding them would offer more Disc space.[/spoiler]

Personally i would like possibility 2. the best and a release like this could finally fix Kai and give us a complete version of Dragon Ball with both filler, the better pacing and the original score. What do you Guys think and which of these possibilities would you like the best?

[gokaiblue]

It would be an ambitious set either way, but I see #2 being the more feasible option.

[sintzu]

Any plans revolving around the old material are pretty much dead now that there's new content to work on.

[KBABZ]

There are a few problems I can see with this.

1) That's a LOT of data per disk.
2) Z isn't in HD, and to make it so Toei would have to go through their Dragon Box stuff again.
3) It'd be a VERY complex scene select process
4) Toei technically consider Kai to be a completely different series from Z rather than just a derivative of it.

[sangofe]

There are a few problems I can see with this.

1) That's a LOT of data per disk.
2) Z isn't in HD, and to make it so Toei would have to go through their Dragon Box stuff again.
3) It'd be a VERY complex scene select process
4) Toei technically consider Kai to be a completely different series from Z rather than just a derivative of it.

If your number 4 statement is right, why did they say when kei17 approached them with original broadcast audio that they didn't need it because there's kai now?

[KBABZ]

There are a few problems I can see with this.

1) That's a LOT of data per disk.
2) Z isn't in HD, and to make it so Toei would have to go through their Dragon Box stuff again.
3) It'd be a VERY complex scene select process
4) Toei technically consider Kai to be a completely different series from Z rather than just a derivative of it.

If your number 4 statement is right, why did they say when kei17 approached them with original broadcast audio that they didn't need it because there's kai now?

Well if that was in 2009-2010-ish then it'd be because Kai was the hot shit at the time and Toei wanted to promote that as a replacement.

[Dragon Sponge]

Any plans revolving around the old material are pretty much dead now that there's new content to work on.

Yea but also the new content will be done someday, and if this collection would be made after Super and the Heroes Anime ended, then they could easily be included into it. A collection like this would also be well suited to be produced for an anniversary, like the 35th or 40th of the Anime Series. I know that by this point, there might as well be a new storage medium for home video or just digital releases (which i would hope not), but since DVDs are still made in todays age, Blurays could also still be around in the 2020s.

There are a few problems I can see with this.

1) That's a LOT of data per disk.
2) Z isn't in HD, and to make it so Toei would have to go through their Dragon Box stuff again.
3) It'd be a VERY complex scene select process
4) Toei technically consider Kai to be a completely different series from Z rather than just a derivative of it.

Option 1. would demand lots of storage for using both the Z & Kai footage, but option 2 not so much, since it would only use the Z footage for everything and i don´t think the Kai Dubs, and recut features would cost to much memory. But even if storage becomes a problem and they don´t want to produce too many discs, they could just use higher capacity Blurays in the range of 100GB.

If they could use their filmreels to make Kai in HD, then they also could use them for this hypothetically collection, and whats the point of keeping them in storage if they are not gonna use them someday in the future? Also there are other old Anime Series, many times less succesfull as DB, that already got respectable HD remasters, so why would this be so difficult for DB? Even if Toei is that cheap, they atleast could make a decent HD upscale of the Dragon Box DVD masters, but of course a real HD remaster would be better.

The Blue/Yellow & Orange bricks releases already had a marathon mode feature and these potential recut features would work the same way, just more specefic scenes would be skiped. It might be more difficult to do, but i still think its possible to accomplish.

Toei might market Kai as its own Series, but does it really make a good figure as that? What is it even? Its a (pseudo) retelling of the mid to later parts of the Manga original, consisting out of recycled footage from the old Anime adaption with removed filler and faster fight scenes. It might be more Manga accurate that way, but only to parts of it not the whole thing. So i question if it does really justice to the Manga original in this incomplete state and even i you argue that pre Z DB holds up better than Z, its still dosen´t make Kai as its own thing any better, since you only get a "new adaption" for the later parts of the Manga and are forced to go back to the old one for the ealier parts, with all its filler and at times sluggish pacing. Its pretty much just an edited version like Sabans Ocean Dub, that merges the Z episodes together and it apparently only exists to rehash the beloved parts of the Series instead of giving us a better Anime adaption of the Manga. Besides i don´t think it would be a good idea to include Kai as its own Series in such a collection. Think about, after you collectet the series up to GT the next volume of this collection would suddenly go back to Raditz, instead of start with Super and the first two new Movies? Would that really be exciting? So i think it would be for the best if Toei stops pretending Kai to be its own thing, and just merge it together with Z in future releases. Something like this would also be more convenient, since you would not have to buy both Z & Kai anymore but instead would get the benefits of both in one package.

[KBABZ]

Option 1. would demand lots of storage for using both the Z & Kai footage, but option 2 not so much, since it would only use the Z footage for everything and i don´t think the Kai Dubs, and recut features would cost to much memory. But even if storage becomes a problem and they don´t want to produce too many discs, they could just use higher capacity Blurays in the range of 100GB.

Using higher-capacity Blu-Ray discs would jack up the price of an already expensive box-set (let's say $1,000 because it also includes OG DB), making it even harder to sell and thus less likely to be made in the first place. As well, certain shots in Kai were created specifically to help with scene continuity. One of the reasons why The Final Chapters is less efficient than OG Kai (outside of having to pad out an episode count) is because no new shots were created, meaning if a continuity issue presented itself then Toei would have to suck it up and make the show longer, just like I have to do when editing The First Chapters for the original Dragon Ball.

As an example, in the manga Tien retracts his two extra arms in the 22nd TB Finals against Goku after being quickly shown that they don't help. In the anime however there's a long filler wrestling pinch sequence, and it's there where Tien retracts the extra arms. You HAVE to keep that scene in to maintain continuity. By a similar measure, during Tien's fight with Goku in the 23rd TB, a filler scene is added where Tien punches out one of the walls, and that remains visible right up until Piccolo flattens the island ten episodes later.

If they could use their filmreels to make Kai in HD, then they also could use them for this hypothetically collection, and whats the point of keeping them in storage if they are not gonna use them someday in the future? Also there are other old Anime Series, many times less succesfull as DB, that already got respectable HD remasters, so why would this be so difficult for DB? Even if Toei is that cheap, they atleast could make a decent HD upscale of the Dragon Box DVD masters, but of course a real HD remaster would be better.

Well what you're forgetting is that in the process of making Kai, only the footage that would appear in the final episode would be remastered in HD. That includes the removal of frame imperfections like cracks and dust, as well as colour correction. Considering the sheer amount of footage that wasn't used in Kai, you're effectively asking them to remaster a THIRD series of Kai, not even counting the Buu arc content.

The Blue/Yellow & Orange bricks releases already had a marathon mode feature and these potential recut features would work the same way, just more specefic scenes would be skiped. It might be more difficult to do, but i still think its possible to accomplish.

Personally I think it's more complex than that. Many Kai episodes, in particular during Namek, can often have only a single shot from a single episode that was in the manga but was in an episode that was otherwise filler (for example, Frieza mulling over the state of the Dragon Ball hunt after he sends Zarbon to tackle Vegeta is in the middle of Bulma and the Crabs). Audio editing would be insanely complex as well, as sound effects and musical cues will blend over from one scene to another. If a normal manga fight is punctuated by a filler section in the middle, and the music changes, how would that work in the scene jumps?

Toei might market Kai as its own Series, but does it really make a good figure as that? What is it even? Its a (pseudo) retelling of the mid to later parts of the Manga original, consisting out of recycled footage from the old Anime adaption with removed filler and faster fight scenes. It might be more Manga accurate that way, but only to parts of it not the whole thing. So i question if it does really justice to the Manga original in this incomplete state and even i you argue that pre Z DB holds up better than Z,

i think it would be for the best if Toei stops pretending Kai to be its own thing, and just merge it together with Z in future releases. Something like this would also be more convenient, since you would not have to buy both Z & Kai anymore but instead would get the benefits of both in one package.

I agree there, but my point is that if Toei doesn't consider Z and Kai to be the same thing with some differences like I do, then I can't see them trying to sell both mixed together considering all the things I pointed out earlier.

its still dosen´t make Kai as its own thing any better, since you only get a "new adaption" for the later parts of the Manga and are forced to go back to the old one for the ealier parts, with all its filler and at times sluggish pacing. Its pretty much just an edited version like Sabans Ocean Dub, that merges the Z episodes together and it apparently only exists to rehash the beloved parts of the Series instead of giving us a better Anime adaption of the Manga.

Any adaptation that takes something from one medium and translates it to another will ultimately always be an adaptation, because what works in one won't always work in another. If you were to shot-for-shot recreate the manga with exactly the same shot angle count and dialogue, it just wouldn't work as an anime because it moves WAY too quickly, and fight sequences would be particularly brief without some additional shots to make the fighting more frantic.

And for me personally, while Kai is redundant in Japan due to the lower-quality music selection and lesser performances by the cast, in English it vastly outshines the original (for me anyway) by being far, far more digestible and with much better dialogue and performances. As for the original Dragon Ball anime, it really isn't as bad as Z is. The filler arcs are inconsequential and easily identified and skipped, and there are only a few select manga-arc episodes to skip during the Red Ribbon arc.

[sintzu]

Any plans revolving around the old material are pretty much dead now that there's new content to work on.

Yea but also the new content will be done someday, and if this collection would be made after Super and the Heroes Anime ended, then they could easily be included into it. A collection like this would also be well suited to be produced for an anniversary, like the 35th or 40th of the Anime Series.

I know that by this point, there might as well be a new storage medium for home video or just digital releases (which i would hope not), but since DVDs are still made in todays age, Blurays could also still be around in the 2020s.

Of course when things slow down there could be special projects like this but as of now this happening and things slowing down regarding new content don't seem likely, at least not for a long time.

If DVD's were able to last this long then Blu-Ray's will last well into the 2030's. There's no signs of DVD's leaving the market so Blu-Ray's are going to be with us for a very, very long time.

[Robo4900]

In theory, any arrangement of the various series could be put on the same disc as the usual by use of branching. They would all have to use the same video master, so to get it all in HD, they'd have to re-scan all the negatives again and do a new HD master of the entire thing, but yes, it could be done. By a similar token, Funimation could have included the old Saban dub aswell as the TV edits of all their dubs all on the same DVDs as the standard "Uncut" releases by use of a similar kind of branching. In fact, Funimation already did something similar but to a much lesser extent on their older DVDs; the dub track used the dub OPs/EDs and title cards, while the Japanese track used the Japanese OPs/EDs/title cards. I believe one or two of the movie DVDs may have also included its edited master via branching too, though I think they only did this with one of the movies, and just did separate edited/uncut releases for the movie releases aside from it.

The only issue with this idea of including Kai and perhaps some kind of cut-down version of DB on a future DB release is that putting all these things together is not the easiest thing to do, and likely wouldn't make anywhere near as much money as putting these things out separately.

[Dragon Sponge]

Option 1. would demand lots of storage for using both the Z & Kai footage, but option 2 not so much, since it would only use the Z footage for everything and i don´t think the Kai Dubs, and recut features would cost to much memory. But even if storage becomes a problem and they don´t want to produce too many discs, they could just use higher capacity Blurays in the range of 100GB.

Using higher-capacity Blu-Ray discs would jack up the price of an already expensive box-set (let's say $1,000 because it also includes OG DB), making it even harder to sell and thus less likely to be made in the first place.

I did some research on Bluray com (http://www.blu-ray.com/) and the recently 4K release of "Game of Thrones" season 1, consits out of three 100GB & one 66GB disc(s) for the price of $44,95, containing 10 episodes in the minute range from low 50s to low 60s. (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Game-of-T ... ay/202472/) This dosen´t seems to be too expensive, also i don´t imagine this collection as 4K, but just as 1080P (at most) or as 720P (at the very least). 100GB BDs might also get cheaper over time, and for Option 2 most of the Series could be released on 50GB BDs in my book. In terms of 50GB BDs i figured out that the first season of the original Star Trek uses a whole lot of seven discs, just for the price of $15,14 which seems very cheap for this amount of discs.(http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Trek ... -ray/4189/)
On the otherhand, the first box of Super which only contains 13 episodes, uses one 25GB and one 50GB disc(s), which costs $24,99 (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dragon-Ba ... ay/178207/) while the first season set of DBZ, which contains four 50GB BDs for 39 eps, costs now $17,99 (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dragon-Ba ... serReviews) while the first Level Set had two 50GB BDs for 17 episodes and did cost $34,98 at release (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dragon-Ba ... ray/26859/).
So the price ratios for TV Series on BD differ greatly from case to case, even in terms of Dragon Ball. But i think the level sets might be the best comparison to calculate how many BDs would be needed for a 1080P remaster of the older Series up to GT. I did an estimation of it:

[spoiler]Dragon Ball Ultimate Collection 1080P USA Version


Volume 1. Son Goku Arc EP: 1-28


* BD 50 1. 1-9

* BD 50 2. 10-18

* BD 50 3. 19-25

* BD 25 4. 26-28


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0




Volume 2. Red Ribbon Arc EP: 29-78


* BD 50 1. 29-37

* BD 50 2. 38-43 + Movie 1

* BD 50 3. 44-52

* BD 50 4. 53-61

* BD 50 5. 62-70

* BD 50 6. Movie 2 + 71-75

* BD 25 7. 76-78


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 3. Piccolo Arc EP: 79-148


* BD 100 1. 79-96

* BD 50 2. 97-105

* BD 50 3. 106-114

* BD 50 4. 115-118 + Movie 3 + 119-121

* BD 50 5. 122-130

* BD 50 6. 131-139

* BD 50 7. 140-148


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 4. Saiyan Arc EP: 149-188


* BD 50 1. 149-157

* BD 50 2. 158-164 + Movie 4

* BD 50 3. 165-173

* BD 50 4. 174-182

* BD 50 5. 183-188


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 5. Freeza Arc EP: 189-260


* BD 100 1. 189-192 + Movie 5 + 193-204

* BD 50 2. 205-207 + Movie 6 + 208-211

*BD 50 3. 212-216 + Special 1 + 217-218

* BD 50 4. 219-227

* BD 50 5. 228-234 + Movie 7

* BD 100 6. 235-249 + Movie 8 + 250

* BD 50 7. 251-260


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 6. Cell Arc EP: 261-347


* BD 100 1. 261-278

* BD 100 2. 279-283 + Movie 9 + 284-294

* BD 50 3. 295-300 + Movie 10 + 301

* BD 50 4. 302-310

* BD 50 5. 311-319

* BD 100 6. 320-328 + Special 2 + 329-330 + Movie 11 + 331-332

* BD 100 7. 333-345 + Movie 12 + 346-347


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 7. Buu Arc EP: 348-444


* BD 100 1. 348-365

* BD 100 2. 366-373 + Movie 13 + 374-381

* BD 50 3. 382-388 + Movie 14

* BD 66 4. 389-400

* BD 100 5. 401-411 + Movie 15 + 412-416

* BD 66 6. 417-423 + Movie 16 + 424-426

* BD 100 7. 427-444


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 8. Black Star & Bebi Arc GT EP: 1-40


* BD 50 1. 1-4 + Movie 17 + 5-7

* BD 50 2. 7-16

* BD 50 3. 17-25

* BD 50 4. 26-34

* BD 50 5. 34-40


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 9. Super 17 & Shadow Dragon Arc GT EP: 40-64


* BD 50 1. 41 + GT Special + 42-47

* BD 50 2. 48-56

* BD 50 3. 57-64


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0

Note:

Judging by the prices the level Sets had, some of these Volumes would get pretty freakin expensive, but if we assume that Toei would use a cheaper remastering process that still looks good, then they might be a bit cheaper, maybe between $25 to $70.[/spoiler]

As well, certain shots in Kai were created specifically to help with scene continuity. One of the reasons why The Final Chapters is less efficient than OG Kai (outside of having to pad out an episode count) is because no new shots were created, meaning if a continuity issue presented itself then Toei would have to suck it up and make the show longer, just like I have to do when editing The First Chapters for the original Dragon Ball.

As an example, in the manga Tien retracts his two extra arms in the 22nd TB Finals against Goku after being quickly shown that they don't help. In the anime however there's a long filler wrestling pinch sequence, and it's there where Tien retracts the extra arms. You HAVE to keep that scene in to maintain continuity. By a similar measure, during Tien's fight with Goku in the 23rd TB, a filler scene is added where Tien punches out one of the walls, and that remains visible right up until Piccolo flattens the island ten episodes later.

The cuts of Kai Mode would not be a 1 to 1 copy but instead just be based of most of the major cuts in Kai. Filler scenes that would be needed for continuity purposes would still be kept in all recut modes.

If they could use their filmreels to make Kai in HD, then they also could use them for this hypothetically collection, and whats the point of keeping them in storage if they are not gonna use them someday in the future? Also there are other old Anime Series, many times less succesfull as DB, that already got respectable HD remasters, so why would this be so difficult for DB? Even if Toei is that cheap, they atleast could make a decent HD upscale of the Dragon Box DVD masters, but of course a real HD remaster would be better.

Well what you're forgetting is that in the process of making Kai, only the footage that would appear in the final episode would be remastered in HD. That includes the removal of frame imperfections like cracks and dust, as well as colour correction. Considering the sheer amount of footage that wasn't used in Kai, you're effectively asking them to remaster a THIRD series of Kai, not even counting the Buu arc content.

I think Toei did a big mistake not remastering the whole Series back then, which they could have used for Kai & future releases of the Original Series, which would have been a "win win" in my book. But personally i would rather like to have an color corected HD Tranfer of the Dragon Box masters for this collection instead of an full remaster with the Kai look. And if that would be too much for Toei, an HD upscale of the Dragon Box DVDs would be fine by me.

The Blue/Yellow & Orange bricks releases already had a marathon mode feature and these potential recut features would work the same way, just more specefic scenes would be skiped. It might be more difficult to do, but i still think its possible to accomplish.

Personally I think it's more complex than that. Many Kai episodes, in particular during Namek, can often have only a single shot from a single episode that was in the manga but was in an episode that was otherwise filler (for example, Frieza mulling over the state of the Dragon Ball hunt after he sends Zarbon to tackle Vegeta is in the middle of Bulma and the Crabs). Audio editing would be insanely complex as well, as sound effects and musical cues will blend over from one scene to another. If a normal manga fight is punctuated by a filler section in the middle, and the music changes, how would that work in the scene jumps?

It would work like this: in Kai & Manga mode filler episodes would usually be entirely skipped, but if the filler ep contains a small amount of Manga content then the outro of the preceding canon episode would be skipped, right to the point were the canon scene happens, and go after that to the outro that preceeds the next canon episode if the filler ep dosen´t end at that canon scene. Also all episode previews are skipped in Kai & Manga mode. And in case of audio errors, the cuts that are made during scenes with music would be more careful selected while cuts during silent scenes could be made without much worry. Maybe some awkward audio jumps would happen in Manga Mode, but Kai Mode would be a bit safer since it woulden´t be as strict for the filler removel.

[Kuwabara]

There are a few problems I can see with this.

1) That's a LOT of data per disk.
2) Z isn't in HD, and to make it so Toei would have to go through their Dragon Box stuff again.
3) It'd be a VERY complex scene select process
4) Toei technically consider Kai to be a completely different series from Z rather than just a derivative of it.

If your number 4 statement is right, why did they say when kei17 approached them with original broadcast audio that they didn't need it because there's kai now?

They're full of shit and made an excuse.

[Robo4900]

There are a few problems I can see with this.

1) That's a LOT of data per disk.
2) Z isn't in HD, and to make it so Toei would have to go through their Dragon Box stuff again.
3) It'd be a VERY complex scene select process
4) Toei technically consider Kai to be a completely different series from Z rather than just a derivative of it.

If your number 4 statement is right, why did they say when kei17 approached them with original broadcast audio that they didn't need it because there's kai now?

They're full of shit and made an excuse.

Or, more likely, the representative who received his email wasnn't sure how to respond to someone, who as far as they're concerned is just some rando, approaching them saying they have some audio they might be interested in taped off TV from some 30-year-old show they used to make, so they just gave him a nothing response and didn't think about it further, or bother passing it onto anyone higher up who might actually realise he's worth talking to further.

[ZodaEX]

Option 1. would demand lots of storage for using both the Z & Kai footage, but option 2 not so much, since it would only use the Z footage for everything and i don´t think the Kai Dubs, and recut features would cost to much memory. But even if storage becomes a problem and they don´t want to produce too many discs, they could just use higher capacity Blurays in the range of 100GB.

Using higher-capacity Blu-Ray discs would jack up the price of an already expensive box-set (let's say $1,000 because it also includes OG DB), making it even harder to sell and thus less likely to be made in the first place.

I did some research on Bluray com (http://www.blu-ray.com/) and the recently 4K release of "Game of Thrones" season 1, consits out of three 100GB & one 66GB disc(s) for the price of $44,95, containing 10 episodes in the minute range from low 50s to low 60s. (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Game-of-T ... ay/202472/) This dosen´t seems to be too expensive, also i don´t imagine this collection as 4K, but just as 1080P (at most) or as 720P (at the very least). 100GB BDs might also get cheaper over time, and for Option 2 most of the Series could be released on 50GB BDs in my book. In terms of 50GB BDs i figured out that the first season of the original Star Trek uses a whole lot of seven discs, just for the price of $15,14 which seems very cheap for this amount of discs.(http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Trek ... -ray/4189/)
On the otherhand, the first box of Super which only contains 13 episodes, uses one 25GB and one 50GB disc(s), which costs $24,99 (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dragon-Ba ... ay/178207/) while the first season set of DBZ, which contains four 50GB BDs for 39 eps, costs now $17,99 (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dragon-Ba ... serReviews) while the first Level Set had two 50GB BDs for 17 episodes and did cost $34,98 at release (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dragon-Ba ... ray/26859/).
So the price ratios for TV Series on BD differ greatly from case to case, even in terms of Dragon Ball. But i think the level sets might be the best comparison to calculate how many BDs would be needed for a 1080P remaster of the older Series up to GT. I did an estimation of it:

Spoiler:

Dragon Ball Ultimate Collection 1080P USA Version


Volume 1. Son Goku Arc EP: 1-28


* BD 50 1. 1-9

* BD 50 2. 10-18

* BD 50 3. 19-25

* BD 25 4. 26-28


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0




Volume 2. Red Ribbon Arc EP: 29-78


* BD 50 1. 29-37

* BD 50 2. 38-43 + Movie 1

* BD 50 3. 44-52

* BD 50 4. 53-61

* BD 50 5. 62-70

* BD 50 6. Movie 2 + 71-75

* BD 25 7. 76-78


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 3. Piccolo Arc EP: 79-148


* BD 100 1. 79-96

* BD 50 2. 97-105

* BD 50 3. 106-114

* BD 50 4. 115-118 + Movie 3 + 119-121

* BD 50 5. 122-130

* BD 50 6. 131-139

* BD 50 7. 140-148


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 4. Saiyan Arc EP: 149-188


* BD 50 1. 149-157

* BD 50 2. 158-164 + Movie 4

* BD 50 3. 165-173

* BD 50 4. 174-182

* BD 50 5. 183-188


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 5. Freeza Arc EP: 189-260


* BD 100 1. 189-192 + Movie 5 + 193-204

* BD 50 2. 205-207 + Movie 6 + 208-211

*BD 50 3. 212-216 + Special 1 + 217-218

* BD 50 4. 219-227

* BD 50 5. 228-234 + Movie 7

* BD 100 6. 235-249 + Movie 8 + 250

* BD 50 7. 251-260


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 6. Cell Arc EP: 261-347


* BD 100 1. 261-278

* BD 100 2. 279-283 + Movie 9 + 284-294

* BD 50 3. 295-300 + Movie 10 + 301

* BD 50 4. 302-310

* BD 50 5. 311-319

* BD 100 6. 320-328 + Special 2 + 329-330 + Movie 11 + 331-332

* BD 100 7. 333-345 + Movie 12 + 346-347


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 7. Buu Arc EP: 348-444


* BD 100 1. 348-365

* BD 100 2. 366-373 + Movie 13 + 374-381

* BD 50 3. 382-388 + Movie 14

* BD 66 4. 389-400

* BD 100 5. 401-411 + Movie 15 + 412-416

* BD 66 6. 417-423 + Movie 16 + 424-426

* BD 100 7. 427-444


Language:

* ENG New Funi/Kai Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 8. Black Star & Bebi Arc GT EP: 1-40


* BD 50 1. 1-4 + Movie 17 + 5-7

* BD 50 2. 7-16

* BD 50 3. 17-25

* BD 50 4. 26-34

* BD 50 5. 34-40


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0


Volume 9. Super 17 & Shadow Dragon Arc GT EP: 40-64


* BD 50 1. 41 + GT Special + 42-47

* BD 50 2. 48-56

* BD 50 3. 57-64


Language:

* ENG New Funi Dub 5,1

* ENG Old Funi Dub 5,1

* Jap Broadcast Audio 2,0

Note:

Judging by the prices the level Sets had, some of these Volumes would get pretty freakin expensive, but if we assume that Toei would use a cheaper remastering process that still looks good, then they might be a bit cheaper, maybe between $25 to $70.

As well, certain shots in Kai were created specifically to help with scene continuity. One of the reasons why The Final Chapters is less efficient than OG Kai (outside of having to pad out an episode count) is because no new shots were created, meaning if a continuity issue presented itself then Toei would have to suck it up and make the show longer, just like I have to do when editing The First Chapters for the original Dragon Ball.

As an example, in the manga Tien retracts his two extra arms in the 22nd TB Finals against Goku after being quickly shown that they don't help. In the anime however there's a long filler wrestling pinch sequence, and it's there where Tien retracts the extra arms. You HAVE to keep that scene in to maintain continuity. By a similar measure, during Tien's fight with Goku in the 23rd TB, a filler scene is added where Tien punches out one of the walls, and that remains visible right up until Piccolo flattens the island ten episodes later.

The cuts of Kai Mode would not be a 1 to 1 copy but instead just be based of most of the major cuts in Kai. Filler scenes that would be needed for continuity purposes would still be kept in all recut modes.

If they could use their filmreels to make Kai in HD, then they also could use them for this hypothetically collection, and whats the point of keeping them in storage if they are not gonna use them someday in the future? Also there are other old Anime Series, many times less succesfull as DB, that already got respectable HD remasters, so why would this be so difficult for DB? Even if Toei is that cheap, they atleast could make a decent HD upscale of the Dragon Box DVD masters, but of course a real HD remaster would be better.

Well what you're forgetting is that in the process of making Kai, only the footage that would appear in the final episode would be remastered in HD. That includes the removal of frame imperfections like cracks and dust, as well as colour correction. Considering the sheer amount of footage that wasn't used in Kai, you're effectively asking them to remaster a THIRD series of Kai, not even counting the Buu arc content.

I think Toei did a big mistake not remastering the whole Series back then, which they could have used for Kai & future releases of the Original Series, which would have been a "win win" in my book. But personally i would rather like to have an color corected HD Tranfer of the Dragon Box masters for this collection instead of an full remaster with the Kai look. And if that would be too much for Toei, an HD upscale of the Dragon Box DVDs would be fine by me.

The Blue/Yellow & Orange bricks releases already had a marathon mode feature and these potential recut features would work the same way, just more specefic scenes would be skiped. It might be more difficult to do, but i still think its possible to accomplish.

Personally I think it's more complex than that. Many Kai episodes, in particular during Namek, can often have only a single shot from a single episode that was in the manga but was in an episode that was otherwise filler (for example, Frieza mulling over the state of the Dragon Ball hunt after he sends Zarbon to tackle Vegeta is in the middle of Bulma and the Crabs). Audio editing would be insanely complex as well, as sound effects and musical cues will blend over from one scene to another. If a normal manga fight is punctuated by a filler section in the middle, and the music changes, how would that work in the scene jumps?

It would work like this: in Kai & Manga mode filler episodes would usually be entirely skipped, but if the filler ep contains a small amount of Manga content then the outro of the preceding canon episode would be skipped, right to the point were the canon scene happens, and go after that to the outro that preceeds the next canon episode if the filler ep dosen´t end at that canon scene. Also all episode previews are skipped in Kai & Manga mode. And in case of audio errors, the cuts that are made during scenes with music would be more careful selected while cuts during silent scenes could be made without much worry. Maybe some awkward audio jumps would happen in Manga Mode, but Kai Mode would be a bit safer since it woulden´t be as strict for the filler removel.

You couldn't edit Z enough to make it canon to the manga. It would need a complete re-do over. But honestly, if you are that concerned about manga canon, why not just read the manga?

[KBABZ]

You couldn't edit Z enough to make it canon to the manga. It would need a complete re-do over. But honestly, if you are that concerned about manga canon, why not just read the manga?

DUDE, stop necro-bumping these old threads! It's getting stupid now.

[Dagon]

This wouldn't work because all these "modes" would just be multipler movie files. It's not like they can put one set of episode files and somehow have the disc automatically skip specific scenes. It would have to be multiple movie files with each one edited to a different type. You're better off getting fan-edits for your fix.

[JohnnyCashKami]

This wouldn't work because all these "modes" would just be multipler movie files. It's not like they can put one set of episode files and somehow have the disc automatically skip specific scenes. It would have to be multiple movie files with each one edited to a different type. You're better off getting fan-edits for your fix.

Yeah. Besides, the best and optimum version of Dragon Ball Kai isn't available legally anymore in its entirety so it still wouldn't be that great.

I love Kai with the Yamamoto score but then hearing how the Kikuchi score changes the mood of the scene and it's not cinematic, it's just not anywhere the same. Hell, just take the Gohan SSJ2 scene for example.

Gohan SSJ2's with the original Kai BGM sounds really suspenseful but the Kikuchi score? Generic and bland, and this is coming from a Kikuchi fan. TOEI used a standard Z BGM for Gohan SSJ2 even though it should have been at least a unique song.

[ZodaEX]

You couldn't edit Z enough to make it canon to the manga. It would need a complete re-do over. But honestly, if you are that concerned about manga canon, why not just read the manga?

DUDE, stop necro-bumping these old threads! It's getting stupid now.

Why? I really wanted to join and contribute to the discussion.

[Danfun64]

You can't contribute to a discussion that's long dead (unless maybe we're talking about important threads like the DBZ Abridged thread and the Ocean Kai thread etc). If you want to say your piece on a topic that doesn't have any active topics or isn't a "major" and or stickied thread, either comment on the non-thread worthy discussion thread or make a new thread altogether.

[ZodaEX]

You can't contribute to a discussion that's long dead (unless maybe we're talking about important threads like the DBZ Abridged thread and the Ocean Kai thread etc). If you want to say your piece on a topic that doesn't have any active topics or isn't a "major" and or stickied thread, either comment on the non-thread worthy discussion thread or make a new thread altogether.

What athority do you have to decide which threads are important and which threads are unimportant? And what defines a major thread? It's not obvious to me at all.