So I rewatched Dragon Ball GT

[PsionicWarrior]

About Vegeta's hair color, I would rather refer to the original canon work where he clearly displays black hair cheers lol

Vegeta's hair was, at the very least, never quite black in the anime...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

How is that screen not displaying black hair to Vegeta lol
Anyway just so it's 100% clear:

[Attitudefan]

Just so you know PsionicWarrior, that Vegeta's hair tended to be Dark Brown in the painted cels for DBZ. Some studios opted for a very dark blue but his hair colour was always a shade lighter than black. Raditz always had dark blue hair, Yamcha sometimes was given dark blue hair as well, and Vegeta a dark red/brown and sometimes dark blue or a dark grey. His hair colour in the anime was nearly never painted black and you can see that in nearly all the cels available:
[spoiler]


And Raditz:

[/spoiler]

It was said in the manga that all Saiyan hair is black, but the DBZ anime obviously is more liberal towards the definition of what Vegeta meant by black hair colour: Saiyans, in the anime, can have dark hair that might look black but is actually dark shades of brown, blue, green etc.

And yes, that screenshot of Vegeta, his hair is not black if your screen is properly calibrated:



However, Raditz, Yamcha, and Vegeta all had their hair appear darker or pure black due to TVs having an output that cannot show all the colours and shades of said colours. Many times, TVs will crush colours to black if the colour or shade is dark enough. A computer monitor and your eyes are different however, and can display much more levels of shading and colour than a TV.


Getting back on topic, I think one of the wierdest choices was to change Goku's skin colour. It's never really explained, and his Super Saiyan forms have his colours return more to form in GT. Is he tan because he's been in the desert sun with Uub? Was it because Toriyama coloured him tan a few times (and a few times not tan, mind you)? Everyone else had roughly the same colour palette other than Goku. Bizarre choice.

Again, I think the overall colours and designs look much different than its predecessors. The constant pink hue and strange design choices just make GT stick out like a sore thumb.

On Super, I cannot get over how Hit looks extremely phallic. His colour choice doesn't help either.........

[PsionicWarrior]

Cheers Attitudefan I really appreciate your explanation and to be honest I barely noticed it, for original DB I set a rule to myself that whenever there is a contradiction between the manga and the anime the manga has the supreme authority cheers lol

[Attitudefan]

Cheers Attitudefan I really appreciate your explanation and to be honest I barely noticed it, for original DB I set a rule to myself that whenever there is a contradiction between the manga and the anime the manga has the supreme authority cheers lol

You're very welcome!

Fair enough. I feel sometimes there is anime canon and manga canon. I try not to think about canon much because it usually is contradictory and an overall mess.

I guess with Super they actually canonized Vegeta's hair as black now. However, prior to, Raditz and Vegeta (Yamcha etc....) never had black hair and was like that for decades. Hence, why Vegeta's hair is brown in the Budokai game openings. But again, this messes with canon

[PsionicWarrior]

I feel sometimes there is anime canon and manga canon. I try not to think about canon much because it usually is contradictory and an overall mess.

Yes I do agree we can consider two levels of canon as in popular culture the anime's universe developed by the Toei is at least as much important than the universe developed by Toriyama in his manga,
even if there is many differences between both they are both as much pertinent regarding DB universe,
However whenever there is any contradiction I think it's fair to say the manga wins as the anime remains an adaptation after all lol

[sunsetshimmer]

Those are shots from DBZ anime and we can clearly see some blue and brown hair there. So yeah, anime wasn't always consistent with manga.
And since GT is pure anime sequel then i wouldn't really call it a mistake. Not after almost 300 episodes of this mistake being a thing.

Getting back on topic, I think one of the wierdest choices was to change Goku's skin colour. It's never really explained, and his Super Saiyan forms have his colours return more to form in GT. Is he tan because he's been in the desert sun with Uub? Was it because Toriyama coloured him tan a few times (and a few times not tan, mind you)? Everyone else had roughly the same colour palette other than Goku. Bizarre choice.

I believe it might be because he trained with Uub. We can see some GT-exclusive retrospection scenes and Goku actually has light skin there.
But on the other hand, he has the same skin color in Path to Power movie.
But Goku Jr. had light skin so the dark tone was exclusive only to Goku.
Actually, when i look at "A Hero's Legacy" ending scene now, adult GT Goku also has light skin again.

[PsionicWarrior]

And since GT is pure anime sequel

According to Toriyama it's a "grand side story" though lol

[Lord Frieza]

Those are shots from DBZ anime and we can clearly see some blue and brown hair there. So yeah, anime wasn't always consistent with manga.
And since GT is pure anime sequel then i wouldn't really call it a mistake. Not after almost 300 episodes of this mistake being a thing.

Getting back on topic, I think one of the wierdest choices was to change Goku's skin colour. It's never really explained, and his Super Saiyan forms have his colours return more to form in GT. Is he tan because he's been in the desert sun with Uub? Was it because Toriyama coloured him tan a few times (and a few times not tan, mind you)? Everyone else had roughly the same colour palette other than Goku. Bizarre choice.

I believe it might be because he trained with Uub. We can see some GT-exclusive retrospection scenes and Goku actually has light skin there.
But on the other hand, he has the same skin color in Path to Power movie.
But Goku Jr. had light skin so the dark tone was exclusive only to Goku.
Actually, when i look at "A Hero's Legacy" ending scene now, adult GT Goku also has light skin again.

As for skin colour, forget tanned some of them are look really unhealthy, almost grey!

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[Attitudefan]

I feel sometimes there is anime canon and manga canon. I try not to think about canon much because it usually is contradictory and an overall mess.

Yes I do agree we can consider two levels of canon as in popular culture the anime's universe developed by the Toei is at least as much important than the universe developed by Toriyama in his manga,
even if there is many differences between both they are both as much pertinent regarding DB universe,
However whenever there is any contradiction I think it's fair to say the manga wins as the anime remains an adaptation after all lol

I may add that the Toei's adaption may actually be more influential than the manga. While I do agree that the manga should trump the adaption, the overall societal influence would most likely be the anime!

Actually, when i look at "A Hero's Legacy" ending scene now, adult GT Goku also has light skin again.

Very strange!!! Yeah the Path to Power film makes me wonder if they tried changing Goku's skin tone canonically. However, Toriyama's first page of his manga has Goku in the same colours (and skin tone) as he looks in the first episode of the original series. So, the GT staff's choices and decisions are very strange to me but also very fascinating!

[PFM18]

Guys I think GT's issues stretch further than the color of Vegeta's hair

[Tian]

Besides the skin thing, I always wonder why Goku's white obi, pink wristbands and white stockings turn blue whenever he goes SSJ4.



Edit : Forgot about his ochre pants turning into another variant of greenish-yellow.

[Robo4900]

And since GT is pure anime sequel

According to Toriyama it's a "grand side story" though lol

Which means nothing, especially not in a franchise where canon has never been something anyone outside of the hardcore American fandom cares about.

[PsionicWarrior]

Which means nothing, especially not in a franchise where canon has never been something anyone outside of the hardcore American fandom cares about.

It means it's not canon which is not nothing, it's not because some people don't care that it doesn't matter lol
This thread is not about this though and my comment was simply a correction according to Toriyama's words, I suggest we don't derail this thread further than it already is and I rather invite you to reply in the canon thread if you want to lol

[Bullza]

Let me ask it this way:
If both Goku and Vegeta have black hair, then why Vegito has brown hair?

He shouldn't, he shouldn't have brown hair. In the show it was very clearly black.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I mean this is official GT Vegeta art so at least in GT, his base form hair is supposed to be brown, but it's very dark brown.
In series, it always seem black. It also depends on color palette used and shading.

It only ever seemed black to me.

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

[sunsetshimmer]

He shouldn't, he shouldn't have brown hair. In the show it was very clearly black.

It depends you know. Old series had less detailed colors + FUNimation changed them as well, especially in Z.
If you look at Kai, you can see brown color in Vegito's hair:
https://youtu.be/SDNxBR4_afQ?t=2m13s

With GT Vegeta, his SSJ4 hair color was never plain brown. He was always shown with shaded hair and darker parts were always black just like his regular hair.
Brown color was the lighter part caused by aura.
Goku SSJ4 also always had shaded hair and lighter parts were just grey in his case.

[Robo4900]

It means it's not canon which is not nothing, it's not because some people don't care that it doesn't matter lol
This thread is not about this though and my comment was simply a correction according to Toriyama's words, I suggest we don't derail this thread further than it already is and I rather invite you to reply in the canon thread if you want to lol

Again though, it does mean nothing. People taking that quote out of context and using it to say "gt is not canon" is a real pet peeve of mine, because it's long been accepted that either that's not what he meant, it's too vague to take any real conclusions from, or Dragon Ball has never had any real comprehensible canon in the first place.
Even if we assume Dragon Ball canon is a thing that's real and makes sense, GT is pointedly a sequel to the anime, not the manga. And also pointedly, it's a sequel to the Dragon Ball and Z anime shows, filler and all. To put it in more precise terms, if we want to apply a rigid "Canon" to Dragon Ball, the only real sensible way to apply it is to consider the original Dragon Ball, Z, and GT anime shows aswell as the broad strokes of a few of the movies(For Garlic Jr. and the presence of Hiya Dragon/Icarus) as one continuity, the Dragon Ball, Kai, and Super anime shows as another, and the Dragon Ball and Super manga runs as a third. Trying to take these three substantially different and contradictory tellings of the story as something that can somehow be reconciled into one coherent continuity is one of many reasons people trying to hammer out a definitive "Dragon Ball canon" are fools whose theories are either full of holes, or are massively unwieldy.

And no, this isn't something to take out of thread; we're talking about GT in this thread, its "Canon status" is something a lot of people like to bring up in relation to GT, so it's worth talking about.

[ABED]

I like the pastel coloring used in GT.

There's a nice sense of melancholy that pervades the entire series.

[PsionicWarrior]

it's too vague to take any real conclusions from

Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball

To me that is crystal clear, why make a distinction with the original DB, it's on the contrary rather precise by separating the term "side-story" to "original" in the same sentence lol

Dragon Ball Super” is a complete continuation of the Majin Boo story arc.

And really just in case people took the GT statement the wrong way lol ....
The only argument left for you here is to tell me Toriyama doesn't decide to which I retork he created the god damn thing so yeah his opinion is the most authoritative if you have a minimum of respect for his person and creation (IMO) lol

if we want to apply a rigid "Canon" to Dragon Ball, the only real sensible way to apply it is to consider the original Dragon Ball, Z, and GT anime shows aswell as the broad strokes of a few of the movies(For Garlic Jr. and the presence of Hiya Dragon/Icarus) as one continuity, the Dragon Ball, Kai, and Super anime shows as another, and the Dragon Ball and Super manga runs as a third. Trying to take these three substantially different and contradictory tellings of the story as something that can somehow be reconciled into one coherent continuity is one of many reasons people trying to hammer out a definitive "Dragon Ball canon" are fools whose theories are either full of holes, or are massively unwieldy.

I'm sorry but in my opinion this is complete nonsense, if you want to apply a "rigid" canon you don't even consider any anime and stick exclusively to the manga lol
Plotholes happen, it doesn't compromise canonicity lol

And no, this isn't something to take out of thread; we're talking about GT in this thread, its "Canon status" is something a lot of people like to bring up in relation to GT, so it's worth talking about.

Ok if you want, but discussing GT the show or its canonical status are two different topics lol

[Robo4900]

I'm sorry but in my opinion this is complete nonsense, if you want to apply a "rigid" canon you don't even consider any anime and stick exclusively to the manga lol
Plotholes happen, it doesn't compromise canonicity lol

I mean, at that point, GT and Toriyama's quote about it aren't even worth considering. You're one of the purist, manga-focused fans who disregards everything about what the anime has to say, so why are you even bothering to debate GT as any kind of special case?

[PsionicWarrior]

You're one of the purist, manga-focused fans who disregards everything about what the anime has to say

That's not true lol