Do you prefer SSJB or SSJ4?

[Melkaniator]

I always liked SS4 but felt like it shouldn't be called SS4. SS was established as a legendary Saiyan warrior with golden hair.

SS4 needs SS though, it's connected, that's why.

You don't need SSJ2 or SSJ3 to become SSJ4.
It's just called SSJ4 for fanservice reasons. I can't see any other option.

I do.

Goku was the one to name the evolution of SS, as "super saiya-jin 2" that's why SS4 has a "4" in it, because Goku named those in the order he discovered them.

Old kaiō-shin did the same.

It would be interesting if U6 already had SS in there, and one of them where to explain Goku that his SS3 has that energy draining problem due to Goku skipping a form that they normally achieved prior to SS3.

Nobody could've come up with the idea of a force field protecting the audience of a tournament of extremely powerful fighters without reading a fanfiction that hasn't been popular since like 2012. Nor could Toriyama have come up with the idea to make an existing form a different color unless he saw a ms paint drawing by an 11 year old on deviantart. Two people cannot have similar ideas by coincidence, and if the creator of a series happens to make something that nebulously resembles a thing a fan did one time, the thing the creator did is automatically bad.

You have every right to see it that way, I don't though.

#1) Too many coincidences.

The only new arcs on DBS sharing that many similarities just because?

I don't think so.

#2) I don't think the dates you presented are relevant.

He doesn't need DeviantArt, Google images with words like new SS form can get him similar images, and when DBM was made, or stopped being popular is beyond irrelevant, it doesn't mean he didn't get to witness it, or when did he.

He would've stumbled upon it when he finally say "yes" to a new series anyway, just surfing the internet to get ideas from.

[theTUN]

#1) Too many coincidences.

The only new arcs on DBS sharing that many similarities just because?

I don't think so.

#2) I don't think the dates you presented are relevant.

He doesn't need DeviantArt, Google images with words like new SS form can get him similar images, and when DBM was made, or stopped being popular is beyond irrelevant, it doesn't mean he didn't get to witness it, or when did he.

He would've stumbled upon it when he finally say "yes" to a new series anyway, just surfing the internet to get ideas from.

What makes you think that Toriyama decided to surf the internet to get new ideas?

Lmao. So in your mind, it's more likely that Toriyama did a google image search for "new Saiyan form," saw an MS paint drawing, and decided to copy it for...no reason? rather than like, having come up with the idea to turn an existing design blue himself? Akira Toriyama is 60+ years old, he thinks that Miguel is a woman's name, he probably doesn't even use the internet at all, besides like, correspondance. Also they aren't that similar on any level besides the extremely nebulous and conceptual.

[Tai Lung]

being objective? none. are both the "Power Up" needed for the series to advance and were overexploited by the toei and make them lose the impact they should have apart that they do not offer any other skill maybe that's why I prefer the Ultra Instinct
if I had to choose between both I suppose that the SSJB at least goku trained to get it and not .. being different is not any merit

[sunsetshimmer]

being objective? none. are both the "Power Up" needed for the series to advance and were overexploited by the toei and make them lose the impact they should have apart that they do not offer any other skill maybe that's why I prefer the Ultra Instinct
if I had to choose between both I suppose that the SSJB at least goku trained to get it and not .. being different is not any merit

UI will turn into just "power up" more or less as well. It's only a matter of another transformation being needed.
Also, i can't really agree with SSJ4 and Blue being only power ups.
SSJ was just a power up, but SSj4 and Blue still has some unique things about them:

SSJ4 - Pretty much the most stable saiyan transformation in franchise. Goku was losing it only in the most hardcore situations like self destruction and Syn Shenron was the only character that managed to beat Goku out of this form. He didn't lose it even when he was unconcious.

SSJ Blue - Has perfect Ki control making Goku able to use Kaioken (at least in anime). Also, it let's you use god ki and while not must-have (proven by many foes) it obviously makes things easier against gods.

Also, Goku had to train for SSJ4 as well. He trained entire life. He didn't get this out of nowhere, all training in his life resulted in this form. He was also training with Old Kai, but couldn't finish it since there was no time (Goku was more lucky in Super and achieved Blue in time to save everyone).
Also, SSJ4 focused on different aproach to achieve - calm mind and mastering your instincts. It's different type of training.
He trained for both of them. You can't say he didn't.

[Tai Lung]

being objective? none. are both the "Power Up" needed for the series to advance and were overexploited by the toei and make them lose the impact they should have apart that they do not offer any other skill maybe that's why I prefer the Ultra Instinct
if I had to choose between both I suppose that the SSJB at least goku trained to get it and not .. being different is not any merit

UI will turn into just "power up" more or less as well. It's only a matter of another transformation being needed.
Also, i can't really agree with SSJ4 and Blue being only power ups.
SSJ was just a power up, but SSj4 and Blue still has some unique things about them:

SSJ4 - Pretty much the most stable saiyan transformation in franchise. Goku was losing it only in the most hardcore situations like self destruction and Syn Shenron was the only character that managed to beat Goku out of this form. He didn't lose it even when he was unconcious.

SSJ Blue - Has perfect Ki control making Goku able to use Kaioken (at least in anime). Also, it let's you use god ki and while not must-have (proven by many foes) it obviously makes things easier against gods.

Also, Goku had to train for SSJ4 as well. He trained entire life. He didn't get this out of nowhere, all training in his life resulted in this form. He was also training with Old Kai, but couldn't finish it since there was no time (Goku was more lucky in Super and achieved Blue in time to save everyone).
Also, SSJ4 focused on different aproach to achieve - calm mind and mastering your instincts. It's different type of training.
He trained for both of them. You can't say he didn't.

that can be but the one that appears less makes it stay better
I also do not say that they are bad transformations only that in general their function is basically the same as the previous ones

Of course I could add that the ssj4 retrieves things from the ozaru and the ssjgod and ssjb has a whole legend behind this

goku and vegeta trained with whis to get the god ki.
in the other case goku did not know about the existence of that transformation, it is supposed that goku needed to have a tail and the Blutz Waves but did not finish due process so he did not get the ozaru's domain in principle.
for both cases a "training simple" was not going to serve I do not think you can say that he prepared all the time
because it was not a condition to have a certain level, that is, to pass through the previous forms