GT is canon as much as Super is

[Jackalope89]

You talked about the multiverse, I replied that it doesn't matter because the very concept doesn't have to exist beyond some asinine need of some sect of fans to have everything count in the continuity or canon. Your next comment further expounded upon it, and I said in more emphatic terms that it doesn't matter. It's a somewhat interesting comment but everytime I hear comic book creators justify keeping decades worth of continuity, even if through a multiverse, I think 'would it really hurt anything to say those stories aren't in the same continuity?'

I was using the multiverse as an example of different stories being told of the same characters, much like GT. I wasn't looking to pick any fights here, just used DC as an example for the topic. I wasn't justifying anything in comics (though manga is simply Japanese comics, so getting snippy about that is weird), just pointing out that such things have been done before in other franchises.

[ABED]

You talked about the multiverse, I replied that it doesn't matter because the very concept doesn't have to exist beyond some asinine need of some sect of fans to have everything count in the continuity or canon. Your next comment further expounded upon it, and I said in more emphatic terms that it doesn't matter. It's a somewhat interesting comment but everytime I hear comic book creators justify keeping decades worth of continuity, even if through a multiverse, I think 'would it really hurt anything to say those stories aren't in the same continuity?'

I was using the multiverse as an example of different stories being told of the same characters, much like GT. I wasn't looking to pick any fights here, just used DC as an example for the topic. I wasn't justifying anything in comics (though manga is simply Japanese comics, so getting snippy about that is weird), just pointing out that such things have been done before in other franchises.

I wasn't getting snippy. I know things like this have been done before. Just saying there's no point in doing it. Sorry you took that as me being intentionally rude.

[DHM211]

*snip

Problem with this chart is that Super acknowledges the existence of Marron, as in Krillin's ex-girlfriend, and she only appears in Z.

Where?

[Michsi]

*snip

Problem with this chart is that Super acknowledges the existence of Marron, as in Krillin's ex-girlfriend, and she only appears in Z.

Where?

Right before the TOP: apparently there is a small difference in how you pronounce the two names and when 17 accidentally pronounces Marron's name wrong, aka like Krillin's ex, she gets really angry.

[Darkprince410]

Problem with this chart is that Super acknowledges the existence of Marron, as in Krillin's ex-girlfriend, and she only appears in Z.

Where?

Right before the TOP: apparently there is a small difference in how you pronounce the two names and when 17 accidentally pronounces Marron's name wrong, aka like Krillin's ex, she gets really angry.

In-universe, all that necessarily means is that she's angry that he pronounced the name wrong, not that the character itself exists within Super's continuity. It's a nod to the fans, in the same vein as the Yamcha meme (in the baseball episode), but it doesn't say in any clear sense that the character Maron actually exists.

[Michsi]

Where?

Right before the TOP: apparently there is a small difference in how you pronounce the two names and when 17 accidentally pronounces Marron's name wrong, aka like Krillin's ex, she gets really angry.

In-universe, all that necessarily means is that she's angry that he pronounced the name wrong, not that the character itself exists within Super's continuity. It's a nod to the fans, in the same vein as the Yamcha meme (in the baseball episode), but it doesn't say in any clear sense that the character Maron actually exists.

Not clearly, but pretty much everyone got the idea. The face she has actually makes it pretty clear.

[Lord Beerus]

Does whether one piece of Dragon Ball media being "canon" or not ever matter that this stage?

[MetaMoss]

Does whether one piece of Dragon Ball media being "canon" or not ever matter that this stage?

At an official level, it never mattered. It's always been a fan concern, because certain kinds of people really enjoy seeing the characters they love inhabit a sort of consistent universe, with a series of stories that all fit together logically. I'm not very picky about that sort of thing myself, but I can certainly see the appeal.

[BlueBasilisk]

Does whether one piece of Dragon Ball media being "canon" or not ever matter that this stage?

At an official level, it never mattered. It's always been a fan concern, because certain kinds of people really enjoy seeing the characters they love inhabit a sort of consistent universe, with a series of stories that all fit together logically. I'm not very picky about that sort of thing myself, but I can certainly see the appeal.

It's true. And whether they're 'canon' or not, the GT characters and movie villains have been appearing in video games, merchandise and the like for over 2 decades now. Toei, Bandai and Shueisha never pretend like they don't exist just because they're not part of the main continuity.

[ABED]

Does whether one piece of Dragon Ball media being "canon" or not ever matter that this stage?

At an official level, it never mattered. It's always been a fan concern, because certain kinds of people really enjoy seeing the characters they love inhabit a sort of consistent universe, with a series of stories that all fit together logically. I'm not very picky about that sort of thing myself, but I can certainly see the appeal.

I honestly don't see the appeal because this isn't about consistency, it's about everything fitting together. What's so wrong about stories that aren't in continuity?

[Basaku]

Does whether one piece of Dragon Ball media being "canon" or not ever matter that this stage?

At an official level, it never mattered. It's always been a fan concern, because certain kinds of people really enjoy seeing the characters they love inhabit a sort of consistent universe, with a series of stories that all fit together logically. I'm not very picky about that sort of thing myself, but I can certainly see the appeal.

I honestly don't see the appeal because this isn't about consistency, it's about everything fitting together. What's so wrong about stories that aren't in continuity?

Loss of lasting impact of events/character actions for one? Character arcs with development based on choices & consequences in the previous stories? C'mon... Yes fans can get extremly obsessive over continuity details, but it's REALLY easy to see why large portion of the audience cares anout canon/continuity/etc

[Forte224]

Does whether one piece of Dragon Ball media being "canon" or not ever matter that this stage?

To a degree yes. Part (but only part) of the reason the Garlic Jr. arc is so hated is because it makes no freakin' sense in the established canon of DBZ. Canon is important for continuity and the story making sense. For instance, if the old Broly movie is considered canon by fans (which wouldn't make sense anyway), they can't logically consider the new one canon. It just doesn't work. Or, I assume it won't.

It also affects more casual fan's views of certain aspects. Don't even get me started on people's confusion in RoF when Freeza isn't dead chilling with Cell and the Ginyu Force. And that's because Toei didn't do a good enough job establishing canon and non-canon, particularly with how they cut Kai TFC.

So, yes, establishing canon and non-canon does indeed matter. It's not everything of course, but it's important if a semi-decent story in an existing universe is going to be told.

[ABED]

Loss of lasting impact of events/character actions for one? Character arcs with development based on choices & consequences in the previous stories? C'mon... Yes fans can get extremly obsessive over continuity details, but it's REALLY easy to see why large portion of the audience cares anout canon/continuity/etc

No "c'mon". We're not talking about mere continuity from the first episode to the last, I'm talking the obsessive need that everything fit together regardless if it needs to as if a non-continuity story makes it worse. Dragon Ball is relatively easier to make most of the pieces fit because they were designed to, but canon for superhero comics is FAR more convoluted and reboot is considered a dirty word. Some of them want old silver age stories and new 52 to be all one continuity. 'Obsessive' is right.

Why does it matter so much that GT is thrown out of the canon? And why would anyone care if it fits, especially since it feels like they are forcing a square peg in a round hole.

If someone enjoys the revival of Will and Grace, should it matter so much if they throw out most of the previously final season or does that one fact ruin it?

[Basaku]

Loss of lasting impact of events/character actions for one? Character arcs with development based on choices & consequences in the previous stories? C'mon... Yes fans can get extremly obsessive over continuity details, but it's REALLY easy to see why large portion of the audience cares anout canon/continuity/etc

No "c'mon". We're not talking about mere continuity from the first episode to the last, I'm talking the obsessive need that everything fit together regardless if it needs to as if a non-continuity story makes it worse. Dragon Ball is relatively easier to make most of the pieces fit because they were designed to, but canon for superhero comics is FAR more convoluted and reboot is considered a dirty word. Some of them want old silver age stories and new 52 to be all one continuity. 'Obsessive' is right.

Why does it matter so much that GT is thrown out of the canon? And why would anyone care if it fits, especially since it feels like they are forcing a square peg in a round hole.

If someone enjoys the revival of Will and Grace, should it matter so much if they throw out most of the previously final season or does that one fact ruin it?

There's occasional reboot and there's some nonsense stuff comicbook verse been doing for example. Easy to see why people may worry DB will go down this path. How many more the same Spider-Man origin movies can one stomach? What's the point? I don't mind throwing GT outta the window but if we end up with new DB series overstepping carlessly onto everything else every few years and the continuity will get so convulted as in some movie/comic franchises, then I for one would lose quite a bit interest in the franchise. What's the point of following the new stories if I get acustomed by the creators to expect that they won't matter at all in a very short time?

[ABED]

How many more the same Spider-Man origin movies can one stomach? What's the point?

We've had three Spider-Man continuities, two of which had origins. I doubt they are going to go to that well anytime soon.

What's the point of following the new stories if I get acustomed by the creators to expect that they won't matter at all in a very short time?

To enjoy the stories for themselves. I don't need the comics I read in the 90s to be in the same continuity 25 years later for them to have mattered. They matter now because they matter to me.

The manga created by Toriyama exists and always will regardless of what TV shows come after. My opinion of GT is not impacted at all by it not being canon nor is Super whether it is the official continuation of DB. My opinion of Super is impacted by it retconning the gap between Buu's defeat and the end of Z.

[Basaku]

To enjoy the stories for themselves. I don't need the comics I read in the 90s to be in the same continuity 25 years later for them to have mattered. They matter now because they matter to me.

There's a difference between 25 years and 2 years that series/franchises reboot themselves nowadays. Big difference

[ABED]

To enjoy the stories for themselves. I don't need the comics I read in the 90s to be in the same continuity 25 years later for them to have mattered. They matter now because they matter to me.

There's a difference between 25 years and 2 years that series/franchises reboot themselves nowadays. Big difference

Eh, don't care. As long as it's good, it doesn't matter. The Burton/Schumacher Batman movies were supposedly in the same continuity. The Nolan films were clearly in a different continuity that had a definitive end. Snyder's take was a completely different continuity and it looks like Reeves' film(s) will be its own thing. As long as they are good, I don't care.

[Basaku]

To enjoy the stories for themselves. I don't need the comics I read in the 90s to be in the same continuity 25 years later for them to have mattered. They matter now because they matter to me.

There's a difference between 25 years and 2 years that series/franchises reboot themselves nowadays. Big difference

Eh, don't care. As long as it's good, it doesn't matter.

Sure, but often it's very worth to keep the same continuity and let the story be told through longer period of time. Wouldn't have DBZ if Toriyama got bored and 'rebooted' or scrapped the whole thing after say, Red Ribbon saga

[ABED]

I find no point in dwelling on that sort of "what if". A big difference in this case is DB was very continuity driven and DB eventually did have a conclusion which ended on its own terms. If he hadn't given the story a proper ending in your scenario, yes, it would've bugged me.

[Basaku]

I find no point in dwelling on that sort of "what if". A big difference in this case is DB was very continuity driven and DB eventually did have a conclusion which ended on its own terms. If he hadn't given the story a proper ending in your scenario, yes, it would've bugged me.

And it took over a decade to reach that end. Not quite the "one-off" short good stories