GT is canon as much as Super is

[Hugo Boss]

That’s right. As much as people want to dictate canon, this is up to the rights-holders to determine (Shueisha in Dragon Ball’s case). Despite Toriyama being the original author, he also doesn’t have the last word.

[Jackalope89]

I don't like discussing canon with this series as I find it quite confusing and all over the place, but a thought just came into my mind when I was reading a GT topic elsewhere.

So Battle of the Gods was the moment where people considered GT dead from the main story as the events that take place undermine certain things that happened in GT early on. However if you look at Dragon Ball Super, the events play out a bit differently than Battle of the Gods albeit mostly the same. So in that regard, that would mean Super's canon isn't necessarily the movie's canon. The same thing occurs with Resurrection F and Super with a lot more changes.

The reason I bring all of this up is because if BotG undermines GT, but Super undermines BotG in certain degrees as well as RF, then at this point you would have to pick and choose what is the canon here. The Dragon Ball Super manga is also a continuation of the series, but the events that occur are drastically different than the anime.

For a place in time Battle of the Gods was considered THE canon, but with Super out which one is more canon than the other? And where does GT belong in all of this?

The answer to that question is this:

Dragon Ball is a huge franchise with multiple canons that interconnect at certain points, but then branch off into their own thing. GT is it's own canon, the movies are their own canon, Super is it's own canon, the Super manga is it's own canon, etc.

A lot of people didn't consider GT canon when it first came out.

Me? As Toriyama said, I see it in different timeline sort of thing. How?

In DC Comics, there's a thing called Hyper Time, where, due to various circumstances, there are many futures that happen. Like one where Flash and a female Green Lantern have kids (along with various pairings in the League), another future where the sons of Batman and Superman take over for their fathers, one where the son of Superman accidentally kills millions when his power explodes (half human, half Kryptonian), one where all the former Robins cycle through the Bat mantle until Tim Drake kills Damian Wayne....

And all of those futures are on the table, but still exist independently. And as I understand it, Marvel does something similar.

[Vegeta_Sama]

No, it's just a different continuity, get over it. You all have to stop considering the term non canon as something negative. It's just non canon, no matter how good you think it is.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

In DC Comics, there's a thing called Hyper Time, where, due to various circumstances, there are many futures that happen. Like one where Flash and a female Green Lantern have kids (along with various pairings in the League), another future where the sons of Batman and Superman take over for their fathers, one where the son of Superman accidentally kills millions when his power explodes (half human, half Kryptonian), one where all the former Robins cycle through the Bat mantle until Tim Drake kills Damian Wayne....

And all of those futures are on the table, but still exist independently. And as I understand it, Marvel does something similar.

This and that's why I think in fact everything is canon ! GT and Super are canon as well as Online and Heroes.

[Shineman]

Could have sworn there was a similar topic regarding this weeks ago!

Nevertheless, as I mentioned before, it is best to consider that every single piece of the Dragon Ball franchise as canon—regardless of its origins. Whether is from the animated series, the movies, video games or the lunchbox with Son Goku on it, anything officially produced by the right-holders falls under canon. Obviously, anything that is not officially produced by them is excluded.

“Non-canon” no longer sufficient here, the closest thing the right-holders have cast off from their canon was the Kenji Yamamoto’s music. As ABED mentioned earlier in this thread, fans cannot “created their own canon”.

From there, you can simply just separate things as continuities ( a canon can have multiple continuities, even multiple main ones, depending on the series). The Main Continuity is composed of series that everyone knows happens and matters in a critical sense (the manga, by extension, the anime, Super anime and GT until stated otherwise).

Of course, continuity might have a little bit more liberties among the fandom what is considered “the main continuity”; while the rest that don’t fall into it (most movies, games, spin offs, Super manga etc.) fall under their own continuity.

[Koitsukai]

I prefer people considering it canon instead of lying to thelmselves by believing Super precedes GT and being part of the same continuity

[ABED]

In DC Comics, there's a thing called Hyper Time, where, due to various circumstances, there are many futures that happen. Like one where Flash and a female Green Lantern have kids (along with various pairings in the League), another future where the sons of Batman and Superman take over for their fathers, one where the son of Superman accidentally kills millions when his power explodes (half human, half Kryptonian), one where all the former Robins cycle through the Bat mantle until Tim Drake kills Damian Wayne....

Those stories still exist regardless of whether the powers that be decide to keep them in continuity with current stories. You can watch and enjoy the movies and GT, DC's golden age, or Star Wars expanded universe whether they are considered canon or not.

[Tai Lung]

I don't like discussing canon with this series as I find it quite confusing and all over the place, but a thought just came into my mind when I was reading a GT topic elsewhere.

So Battle of the Gods was the moment where people considered GT dead from the main story as the events that take place undermine certain things that happened in GT early on. However if you look at Dragon Ball Super, the events play out a bit differently than Battle of the Gods albeit mostly the same. So in that regard, that would mean Super's canon isn't necessarily the movie's canon. The same thing occurs with Resurrection F and Super with a lot more changes.

The reason I bring all of this up is because if BotG undermines GT, but Super undermines BotG in certain degrees as well as RF, then at this point you would have to pick and choose what is the canon here. The Dragon Ball Super manga is also a continuation of the series, but the events that occur are drastically different than the anime.

For a place in time Battle of the Gods was considered THE canon, but with Super out which one is more canon than the other? And where does GT belong in all of this?

The answer to that question is this:

Dragon Ball is a huge franchise with multiple canons that interconnect at certain points, but then branch off into their own thing. GT is it's own canon, the movies are their own canon, Super is it's own canon, the Super manga is it's own canon, etc.

it is not .. and it is not like the fans can decide that really, the author was clear when he said that dragon ball gt would be considered an "alternate continuity" and dragon ball super would be the "main continuity".
would have to clarify that although both the anime and the manga of super are part of the "main continuity" and the author has a participation in both would be equally valid although the manga is more promotional at least originally when it started

[Cetra]

So we are back to the old Akira said- lie. No. No, he did not. He only ever said the word side story and people need to stop saying sidestories are noncanonical.That's not what side story means and as wrong as claims like The original author has to ... Or We consumers have the power over... That stuff literally has nothin to do with that and follows no reasonable and flawless derivation.

[Doctor.]

What is 'canon' is irrelevant. I always found these discussions ridiculous. You can just ignore GT AND Super when trying to discuss the original series.

[KinguKurimuzon]

All this talk about GT's canonicity is infuriating. Having a tight canon is always nice, but it's not necessary in order to enjoy a story. It doesn't matter whether or not it's canon anymore, the creators of GT intended it to be a conclusion to the anime, and as such the original three series are meant to be one complete story. Super is just more Dragon Ball, and just because it exists doesn't mean GT can no longer be watched. Hell, they're trudging ahead with a whole new Star Trek universe nowadays, but you can always go back and enjoy those original five series and their own super tight canon.

[DHM211]

[Hellspawn28]

GT and Super are their own thing. They can't co-exist with each other and they exist in their own timeline in my opinion.

[PsionicWarrior]

Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ama-intro/

Dragon Ball Super” is a complete continuation of the Majin Boo story arc.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/07/01/dr ... ries-plot/

He is the creator of Dragon Ball so he has the word of God I know some don't like it but that's just the way it is, going on about IP ownership is dishonest, fallacious and even clearly insulting to both the author and the original work IMO lol

[Jackalope89]

In DC Comics, there's a thing called Hyper Time, where, due to various circumstances, there are many futures that happen. Like one where Flash and a female Green Lantern have kids (along with various pairings in the League), another future where the sons of Batman and Superman take over for their fathers, one where the son of Superman accidentally kills millions when his power explodes (half human, half Kryptonian), one where all the former Robins cycle through the Bat mantle until Tim Drake kills Damian Wayne....

Those stories still exist regardless of whether the powers that be decide to keep them in continuity with current stories. You can watch and enjoy the movies and GT, DC's golden age, or Star Wars expanded universe whether they are considered canon or not.

DC also has Elseworlds, where classic heroes are given a twist on things. Like rather than Bruce Wayne become Batman, he instead becomes a Green Lantern. Or in another one, Superman is found by Amish parents over the Kents, Jimmy Olsen goes nutso on the Justice League (has no Superman yet), blasts Supes' Amish parents, and then is stopped by Supes. With a sidestory where Joker actually pushes Batman too far (won't spoil it, but it is DARK) and Bats kills him. Earth 3 has, instead of the Justice League, the Crime Syndicate where the "League" is replaced by evil versions of themselves, and the classic villains (Lex Luthor and Joker for instance) are the good guys. And Earth 2 is, or at least until the New52 and sort of after, the Golden Age version of the comic heroes.

But DC's multiverse works quite a bit differently than Dragon Ball's. Hence, hyper time.

[ABED]

In DC Comics, there's a thing called Hyper Time, where, due to various circumstances, there are many futures that happen. Like one where Flash and a female Green Lantern have kids (along with various pairings in the League), another future where the sons of Batman and Superman take over for their fathers, one where the son of Superman accidentally kills millions when his power explodes (half human, half Kryptonian), one where all the former Robins cycle through the Bat mantle until Tim Drake kills Damian Wayne....

Those stories still exist regardless of whether the powers that be decide to keep them in continuity with current stories. You can watch and enjoy the movies and GT, DC's golden age, or Star Wars expanded universe whether they are considered canon or not.

DC also has Elseworlds, where classic heroes are given a twist on things. Like rather than Bruce Wayne become Batman, he instead becomes a Green Lantern. Or in another one, Superman is found by Amish parents over the Kents, Jimmy Olsen goes nutso on the Justice League (has no Superman yet), blasts Supes' Amish parents, and then is stopped by Supes. With a sidestory where Joker actually pushes Batman too far (won't spoil it, but it is DARK) and Bats kills him. Earth 3 has, instead of the Justice League, the Crime Syndicate where the "League" is replaced by evil versions of themselves, and the classic villains (Lex Luthor and Joker for instance) are the good guys. And Earth 2 is, or at least until the New52 and sort of after, the Golden Age version of the comic heroes.

But DC's multiverse works quite a bit differently than Dragon Ball's. Hence, hyper time.

You're splitting hairs. It doesn't matter how different their multiverses are. The stories still exist regardless of canon or continuity. Our enjoyment shouldn't be dependent on those factors.

[Hugo Boss]

He is the creator of Dragon Ball so he has the word of God I know some don't like it but that's just the way it is, going on about IP ownership is dishonest, fallacious and even clearly insulting to both the author and the original work IMO lol

No.. it’s not a matter of liking it. The original author has all the respect he deserves, but he is not the one to determine what counts and what doesn’t. If Shueisha decides to rewrite everything, it has the power to do so.

[Jackalope89]

Those stories still exist regardless of whether the powers that be decide to keep them in continuity with current stories. You can watch and enjoy the movies and GT, DC's golden age, or Star Wars expanded universe whether they are considered canon or not.

DC also has Elseworlds, where classic heroes are given a twist on things. Like rather than Bruce Wayne become Batman, he instead becomes a Green Lantern. Or in another one, Superman is found by Amish parents over the Kents, Jimmy Olsen goes nutso on the Justice League (has no Superman yet), blasts Supes' Amish parents, and then is stopped by Supes. With a sidestory where Joker actually pushes Batman too far (won't spoil it, but it is DARK) and Bats kills him. Earth 3 has, instead of the Justice League, the Crime Syndicate where the "League" is replaced by evil versions of themselves, and the classic villains (Lex Luthor and Joker for instance) are the good guys. And Earth 2 is, or at least until the New52 and sort of after, the Golden Age version of the comic heroes.

But DC's multiverse works quite a bit differently than Dragon Ball's. Hence, hyper time.

You're splitting hairs. It doesn't matter how different their multiverses are. The stories still exist regardless of canon or continuity. Our enjoyment shouldn't be dependent on those factors.

???
Not saying people should or shouldn't enjoy the series, just pointing out how I see the series and possible ways for future setups (which Xenoverse and Heroes actually kind of do). Not once did I say a person's enjoyment should be dependent on those. Not even sure where you got that from.

[ABED]

You talked about the multiverse, I replied that it doesn't matter because the very concept doesn't have to exist beyond some asinine need of some sect of fans to have everything count in the continuity or canon. Your next comment further expounded upon it, and I said in more emphatic terms that it doesn't matter. It's a somewhat interesting comment but everytime I hear comic book creators justify keeping decades worth of continuity, even if through a multiverse, I think 'would it really hurt anything to say those stories aren't in the same continuity?'

[Michsi]

*snip

Problem with this chart is that Super acknowledges the existence of Marron, as in Krillin's ex-girlfriend, and she only appears in Z.