Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

[Bruma rabu]

Got done watching movie 5 and it wasn't as awful as the still pictures would lead to believe, still not as good as the other movies though. One thing I did notice was it seems the dnr isn't consistent through out the movie. Some shoots look good(to me at lest) while others didn't fair as well. It seems like some parts were heavily dnr'd selectively.

[Metalwario64]

there's hope for a potential grain-intact BD from FUNimation down the line.

I'm sorry but LOL . Funimation and grain are not words that go on the same sentence.

Maybe if we count the level sets, but sure we all know what happened there .

Not saying it's likely, just potentially so if the theatrical releases had the grain. They did release the Dragon Boxes and the Level Sets, and they're aware that a large portion of the fanbase wants the image untouched.

Of course, they did ignore all of that with the season Blu-rays, which the DNR done to these Toei BDs resembles greatly. It's sad that the Double Feature BDs have the grain mostly intact, but Toei removed it. What an ironic turn of events.

[KBABZ]

I'm sorry but LOL . Funimation and grain are not words that go on the same sentence.

Maybe if we count the level sets, but sure we all know what happened there .

Not saying it's likely, just potentially so if the theatrical releases had the grain. They did release the Dragon Boxes and the Level Sets, and they're aware that a large portion of the fanbase wants the image untouched.

Of course, they did ignore all of that with the season Blu-rays, which the DNR done to these Toei BDs resembles greatly. It's sad that the Double Feature BDs have the grain mostly intact, but Toei removed it. What an ironic turn of events.

I think if FUNimation were to sell these, considering that Blu-Rays do already exist for those movies, they could mark the old ones down for dirt cheap and sell them as the "consumer-grade" versions, while the Toei remasters take the old price point and are marketed for more auter enthusiasts of Dragon Ball Z like us who actually give a crap what the show looks like. One way to get over the double-releases thing.

[Forte224]

Honestly, the only angle they could really take without it confusing the average consumer would be to market it as a direct-from-Japan remaster, mention the crisp Japanese audio, and most likely make it a limited release.

[KBABZ]

Honestly, the only angle they could really take without it confusing the average consumer would be to market it as a direct-from-Japan remaster, mention the crisp Japanese audio, and most likely make it a limited release.

Oh I'd hate it if they Dragon Box-ed it. That would basically confine the existing Blu-Rays to be the "normal" version for the West. In the DVD era, the Orange Bricks were the "normal" version of the show shown on mass-media sites like IGN and Buzzfeed because (among other factors) the Dragon Boxes were utterly unavailable after a certain point in time and nobody had them to hand.

[HakkaiBills93]

@DMH please forget to post cc screenshot here (mostly when they are FAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Than accurate) it can trick some people

About movie 5 it's the same version as Italian Deagostini Box it's a Great Error Toei Did, they switch the True remastered version with the SHIT DNR upscale they were using before and that they provide to italian

[superrayman3]

About movie 5 it's the same version as Italian Deagostini Box it's a Great Error Toei Did, they switch the True remastered version with the SHIT DNR upscale they were using before and that they provide to italian

Can you provide a screenshot of the Italian Blu-ray because I'm interested in seeing if that's indeed the case and if so Toei really screwed up with the Japanese Blu-ray release of movie 5.

[Metalwario64]

So, looking at the other screenshots, it seems the DNR in the other films is on the light side (the Level sets had light DNR too), but the movie 5 master is completely wiped, and has obnoxious edge enhancement (Japanese Buu Kai levels).

Movie 5 is a gorgeous film too, which makes this even worse. If movie 5 was processed like the other films, I wouldn't really mind because those still have traces of grain, it's just a bit softened.

[JohnnyCashKami]

Taking the pros and cons from both versions.

Video @ Amazon
Audio @ Blu-ray

The audio on the Amazon streams apparently sound worse than the Dragon Box: The Movies but the Blu-ray version supposedly a step-up from the Dragon Box: The Movies.

God damn it, TOEI. Fans have always to fix up their shit so that they can actually enjoy it as it should have been released.

[Robo4900]

Come on, dudes. At least it's way better than FUNimation's remasters and actually looks pretty darn good so even though they kinda fucked up, it's not that bad. I'm just going to wait for FUNimation to release it with English subs on Blu-ray.

Agreed.
Complaining at Toei about this release is something all of us should do. We should all make our opinions known, and shout them as loud as we can at the companies involved, because realistically, that's the only way to get anything like this done.

But, if the BDs continue to come in this state, it's still a solid release, aside from Z movie 5. If we'd never seen the streaming versions, then aside from Z movie 5, no one would be complaining.

I can see why some are hoping FUNi would do a re-dub but realistically, they probably won't. Most of them dubs are OK and do its job, if anyone wants an absolute authentic experience then watch in its original Japanese audio.

That's not why they won't redub. They won't redub because the only incentive to is that the hardcore fans would be mildly happier. There would be no real financial gain, and the oldschool fans would complain anyway, so it would not be a good move for them business-wise. There's no attitude of "well you can just watch the japanese". If that attitude was around and seriously considered, modern anime dubbing wouldn't exist.

Yeah, I reckon whenever these get a western release I'll definitely be picking up movies 1-5, but going to wait to see how the rest turn out. Also, I urge anyone who is a fan of the Pioneer trilogy to let Sabat know we want them as additional audio tracks for the Funi release.

Yes... Everyone, even if you're not sure you'd actually watch it with the Pioneer dub, please tweet @Funimation and @Voiceofvegeta asking Funi to release the Toei BD with the Pioneer dubs included. Only way to have your voice heard. Petitions don't work, boycotts don't work, this is the only way. If it doesn't work, then there's nothing we could have done, and at least we'll have tried.

Lets just hope if the rumours of TOEI doing the TV series is true they'll do that justice. It'll still be hard to do a worse job of Z than Funimation did, and DB and GT seriously need a Blu-Ray release (although I'll take any remaster thats superior to any of the DVD releases due to Blu-Ray's durability).

Indeed.
Chances are, the reason Z movie 5 looks so crap is because they wanted to blend the 16mm footage with 35mm. The series, and the TV specials, will most certainly look a lot better.

[jaisonas]

Anyone know or heard what reviews did the blurays get in Japan?

[JohnnyCashKami]

Anyone know or heard what reviews did the blurays get in Japan?

There are reviews on Amazon.co.jp

DRAGON BALL THE MOVIES Blu-ray #01
3.0/5.0

DRAGON BALL THE MOVIES Blu-ray #02
4.9/5.0

DRAGON BALL THE MOVIES Blu-ray #03
3.0/5.0

DRAGON BALL THE MOVIES Blu-ray #04
5.0/5.0

DRAGON BALL THE MOVIES Blu-ray #05
2.0/5.0

But it's not as though it really means much, you've seen how the picture quality looks like so you'll decide between the FUNi Singles, FUNi Double Features, TOEI Dragon Box, TOEI HD DBZ Movies on Blu-ray or the TOEI HD DBZ Movies on Amazon Japan streaming service.

It seems that the Amazon version is better in that the quality was preserved whereas the Blu-ray received the Kai TFC treatment.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I feel like if they were going to DVNR the show then they would have done so with Kai first off.

Kai episodes 1-98 actually do have DVNR on them, so the idea of DB/Z/GT getting some kind of DVNR treatment for the possible upcoming HD versions isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility (now granted Kai 1-98 were actually remastered by Q-tec whereas the Buu saga portion of Kai was remastered in-house at Toei and in fairness Q-tec's DVNR results for those first 98 episodes aren't nearly as bad as FUNi's DVNR nonsense, but nonetheless DVNR is present on those episodes), ideally I would hope that Toei simply scans the original film negatives, clean all of the film damage up and color correct the footage with no DVNR applied whatsoever, but until we see exactly what Toei is doing with the footage when it comes out (assuming it does), there's no real way of knowing if these possible new HD remasters of the series are going to have any kind of DVNR on them or not (I hope they don't).

How come Kai 1.0 looked so good then while these movies with the DVNR look like crap? *sighs* I had really hoped that the days of Toei being cheap and fucking Dragon Ball fans had come to an end after the awesome budget they gave to the majority of the ToP arc. But now after reading theories in this thread that they had multiple people direct the remastering to cut the work load and whatnot... I'm starting to think that the days of "oh well, fuck them. they'll buy it anyway" are back. At least for this.

I'm still irritated that Boo Kai is so horrible (filler not removed and the nasty tint).

[DHM211]

Spoiler:

I feel like if they were going to DVNR the show then they would have done so with Kai first off.

Kai episodes 1-98 actually do have DVNR on them, so the idea of DB/Z/GT getting some kind of DVNR treatment for the possible upcoming HD versions isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility (now granted Kai 1-98 were actually remastered by Q-tec whereas the Buu saga portion of Kai was remastered in-house at Toei and in fairness Q-tec's DVNR results for those first 98 episodes aren't nearly as bad as FUNi's DVNR nonsense, but nonetheless DVNR is present on those episodes), ideally I would hope that Toei simply scans the original film negatives, clean all of the film damage up and color correct the footage with no DVNR applied whatsoever, but until we see exactly what Toei is doing with the footage when it comes out (assuming it does), there's no real way of knowing if these possible new HD remasters of the series are going to have any kind of DVNR on them or not (I hope they don't).

How come Kai 1.0 looked so good then while these movies with the DVNR look like crap? *sighs* I had really hoped that the days of Toei being cheap and fucking Dragon Ball fans had come to an end after the awesome budget they gave to the majority of the ToP arc. But now after reading theories in this thread that they had multiple people direct the remastering to cut the work load and whatnot... I'm starting to think that the days of "oh well, fuck them. they'll buy it anyway" are back. At least for this.

I'm still irritated that Boo Kai is so horrible (filler not removed and the nasty tint).

Kai 1.0 honestly doesn't look that amazing. It looks "amazing" when compared to the Dragon Box's or the Orange Bricks/Season Blu-Rays, but in reality, it's very soft for a 1080p remaster of a 16mm show.
1080p Kai:

480p Kai:

Outside of the Openings, Endings, and the 5 or so episodes on animated 35mm film, there really isn't a difference of watching Kai on dvd or blu-ray.

These movies, even with noise reduction, still look much better than kai, solely because they were printed on 35mm film. They only reason I'm complaining about the noise reduction is because I saw how phenomenal these films look without it.

Kai would have like wise looked far better/sharper if they left the grain intact.

[Bruma rabu]

How come Kai 1.0 looked so good then while these movies with the DVNR look like crap? *sighs* I had really hoped that the days of Toei being cheap and fucking Dragon Ball fans had come to an end after the awesome budget they gave to the majority of the ToP arc. But now after reading theories in this thread that they had multiple people direct the remastering to cut the work load and whatnot... I'm starting to think that the days of "oh well, fuck them. they'll buy it anyway" are back. At least for this.

I'm still irritated that Boo Kai is so horrible (filler not removed and the nasty tint).

Uhh did you even see what the movies look like for you're self?? The only movie that looks bad was 5. The rest look amazing, could the have looked better? According to others yeah but for what we have they still look real good.

[professorwho]

Okay, here's my thoughts.

Why does movie 5 look like shit? Maybe it's the compressionist. See, the compressionist does video compression for the Blu-ray and has full control over how it looks. I say this, because this ISN'T the first time this has happened with an anime remaster. Bandai and Sunrise restored the Patlabor OVAs and TV series, and the JP BD uses it, with DNR applied. I assume it's the compressionist who did it, because when Sentai Filmworks did the US release, all the DNR was gone! It looked beautiful! Sure, it was half the bitrate, but the gain in detail was astounding.

When it comes to restoration, some companies are better than others. For live action, one of the most controversial groups are L'Immagine Ritrovata in Italy. They do good work in terms of detail, but the colour grading is pretty much always subpar. A great example is their restoration of Fist of Fury (also called The Chinese Connection). Their restoration has great detail, but the colour grading is piss poor. Simply compare the Hong Kong release, which uses their grading, with Shout Factory's BD which is fully colour graded to look more like it's original theatrical release: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=8721&d2=12264&c=3283 Simply put, that's a huge difference. But, that's live action. With animation, it's easier to get it right, but if I had to guess, the person doing the grading here choose their preference, and not what is theatrically accurate.

Also, here's about Q-Tec. They're crap. Q-Tec is a group that does a variety of things, but they are automated. They often appear in the credits of TV anime because they'll sync the audio to the animation there, which is no problem. But, they have gained their reputation off of a few areas.

Upscaling is hard. Most anime produced between 2000 and 2008 are in SD, and to have a BD release, you'd either have to re-composite the whole show (like what happened with Gurren Lagann) or upscale. Q-Tec smears everything to make it look more "video" like, but it comes at the cost of detail. Often their upscales have less detail than the DVD version! What a bunch of plebs.

They have done some remasters, but it varies between company. For Gundam titles, Sunrise does the remaster, and then Q-Tec does the Blu-ray compression and authoring. For Dragon Ball, it appears Q-Tec had more of a hands on approach, thus why Kai turned out the way it did. That's why it had some DNR and the colour grading be how it is. Same thing with the 4K remaster of Ghost in the Shell, Bandai did a 5K scan, and Q-Tec did the Blu-ray compression and restoration- thus why, despite it being a better scan, had less grain than the previous BD- due to DNR.

If you think that egregious DNR is just a Toei thing, think again. Ghost in the Shell has some, but it's not too bad, and in many ways is better than the previous BD. However, TMS has decided to go all in on DNR. Space Adventure Cobra and Ashita no Joe 2 have INSANE degrees of DNR. https://imgbox.com/g/vVn74xizni https://catalina.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2018-05-25-5

Osamu Dezaki (the director of both) is probably rolling around in his grave over this.

Overall, DNR isn't going away. If Shout Factory can release Platoon in a DNR'd to death manor https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=12366&d2=12367&c=4872 and get away with it, then it's a thing that'll keep happening. Animation is less forgiving with DNR by default, but that is no excuse to do it. Disney has been doing it for years and casuals love it, so unless we vote with our wallets, it'll never stop.

[Bruma rabu]

Again not sure why everybody is all doom and gloom about the entire set so far only 1 movie out of 6 looks bad and it's not the entire movie. Idk how the Amazon stream version looks of movie 5 but from what I saw it looks like the parts that were DNRd were parts that seemed it might of been damaged footage or something to that degree. Like robo said if the Amazon stream versions were never a thing nobody would be complaining about the way they look other than movie 5.

[professorwho]

Like robo said if the Amazon stream versions were never a thing nobody would be complaining about the way they look other than movie 5.

I highly doubt that. DNR is noticeable and is a sin.

[Bruma rabu]

Like robo said if the Amazon stream versions were never a thing nobody would be complaining about the way they look other than movie 5.

I highly doubt that. DNR is noticeable and is a sin.

On what the other movies? Or just 5?

[DHM211]

Like robo said if the Amazon stream versions were never a thing nobody would be complaining about the way they look other than movie 5.

I highly doubt that. DNR is noticeable and is a sin.

Bruma rabu is right. If we never saw the streams, most people wouldn't complain, because outside of movie 5, this is still the best DB has ever looked.
Blu-ray: 8.5/10


Amazon: 9.5/10