"GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ricky84 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:52 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Most of the main cast, by the time GT rolled along, had pretty much given on fighting. But Goku didn't stop training and was always eager for a new challenge, Pan already displayed a keen interest in martial arts and Trunks was brought along on for the escapades originally because he wanted the escape the boredom of a corporate lifestyle.

I think the only times when the complaint of Goku hogging all the glory and making everyone look like scrubs in comparison -- which is what I'm assuming the notion behind "Goku Time" is -- was in Episode 45 and the beginning portion of the Evil Dragons arc.

And Oob got fucked over HARD. Yeah, he had that small but pivotal role in the Baby arc, but he should have given much more to do in the show. He should have been travelling in space with Goku, Pan and Trunks. His overall treatment in GT is made even more egregious considering he was the person Goku had handpicked to be his sparring partner and literal successor. I mean, Goku abandoned his family and friends because he was that invested in that kid. And he's not even a footnote in the show.
Well Gohan and especially Vegeta were confirmed to have kept on training after the Buu saga in GT (and it shows in their feats), so it makes no since how they and Majuub got sidelined hard.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by nosferatu » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:57 pm

At the time of GT the market was full of dragonball hence why only 64 episodes. The same will happen again and then hopefully 4 ever let the franchize rest in peace shitty milking is a disgrace.

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ricky84 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:43 pm

nosferatu wrote:At the time of GT the market was full of dragonball hence why only 64 episodes. The same will happen again and then hopefully 4 ever let the franchize rest in peace shitty milking is a disgrace.
The market wasn't over saturated when GT came out. The franchise started to decline since the Buu arc began, and GT had little to no merchandise tied to it compared to the other 3 shows.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:04 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:Try comparing GT and Super in any online discussion, and I guarantee you it will almost immediately transform into a "gt sux" circlejerk. Even Kanzenshuu isn't totally immune to this.
To be fair there is just as much "dbs sucks" comments lol
Eh, not really. Those who hate Super are quite vocal, but are usually drowned out by the massive hate for GT online, and the massive love for Super online.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by PFM18 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:06 pm

It isn't an exaggeration at all. In a series about fighting, Goku is the only relevant fighter in the entire series. There is not a single time where anybody other than Goku has any spotlight in a combat sense. 18 and her relationship with 17 helped, and Pan had to help blowing out Luud, but these aren't times in which they are fighting and showing their abilites as a fighter against a relevant opponent. I guess it is fine that Goku is the only character that is relevant strictly in terms of power, but if this was a series that wasn't shamelessly shoving Goku down our throats, they would have given other characters their own fights and their own spotlight.

Uub being completely and totally useless outside of being inside of Baby is a perfect example. Z handed GT a character that could be useful and develop into a prominent member of the main cast, but GT decided they would just let him sit on the sidelines and be useless like everybody else. I mean the guy was a reincarnation of Buu, fused with the current iteration of Buu, and he was STILL useless. It is just hilariously centered around Goku and that is where the name comes from. The name "Goku Time" is 110% warranted, it has that name for a reason.
Robo4900 wrote: Kanzenshuu is a bit kinder to it, but America's hate boner for GT remains strong as ever. And of course, with Funi pushing their version as the primary version for the DVDs in the UK and Canada, and with internet "this thing sux and u suk if u like it" culture, the irrational hate for GT is spreading further, if anything.
Yeah, Kanzenshuu certainly seems like it is an outlier in terms of the level of hate that GT receives. The hate does seem more intense outside of Kanzenshuu. It certainly doesn't help that the majority of people saw it first in the horrendous dub in which Pan was intolerably annoying. I am in the process of rewatching the sub, and while I do often find it very boring and just generally low quality, it isn't nearly as bad watching it in the original Japanese and I think that I agree Funi pushing their version has been a big problem.
nosferatu wrote:super is so bad :lolno:
Wow thanks for your contributions. This really adds to the discussion. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:59 pm

I don't care about Uub. GT wasn't handed anything with him. Z had plenty of great characters other than one that was created at the last minute. Far more interesting characters with far more connection to the audience. That's the shame, but Goku wasn't shoved down anyone's throats. He's the main character, end of story.

GT always had a bad reputation, well before 2003.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by GT_Goten10 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:17 pm

ABED wrote:I don't care about Uub. GT wasn't handed anything with him. Z had plenty of great characters other than one that was created at the last minute. Far more interesting characters with far more connection to the audience. That's the shame, but Goku wasn't shoved down anyone's throats. He's the main character, end of story.

GT always had a bad reputation, well before 2003.
&Funimation destroyed it completely
GT Fighter

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:06 pm

GT_Goten10 wrote:
ABED wrote:I don't care about Uub. GT wasn't handed anything with him. Z had plenty of great characters other than one that was created at the last minute. Far more interesting characters with far more connection to the audience. That's the shame, but Goku wasn't shoved down anyone's throats. He's the main character, end of story.

GT always had a bad reputation, well before 2003.
&Funimation destroyed it completely
You make it sound as bad as DBZ Season 3 and having watched GT dubbed with subtitles, I can safely say that's not true. GT's reputation has NOTHING to do with the dub. If Z's wasn't destroyed by FUNi's in house dub, GT's wasn't either.

I don't think GT being more Goku centric may be true, but I don't think it's fair to hold it against the series. He's the main character and it's not an ensemble story.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Kurakaio » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:03 am

ABED wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:
ABED wrote:I don't care about Uub. GT wasn't handed anything with him. Z had plenty of great characters other than one that was created at the last minute. Far more interesting characters with far more connection to the audience. That's the shame, but Goku wasn't shoved down anyone's throats. He's the main character, end of story.

GT always had a bad reputation, well before 2003.
&Funimation destroyed it completely
You make it sound as bad as DBZ Season 3 and having watched GT dubbed with subtitles, I can safely say that's not true. GT's reputation has NOTHING to do with the dub. If Z's wasn't destroyed by FUNi's in house dub, GT's wasn't either.

I don't think GT being more Goku centric may be true, but I don't think it's fair to hold it against the series. He's the main character and it's not an ensemble story.
I believe it is true. GT is the ONLY series to not have anybody close to Gokus power throughout its whole run. Yeah Vegeta eventually gets SSJ4, but it's useless and he only serves to fuse into Gogeta, who couldn't get the job done anyway.

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:54 am

Man I should double check my posts. I get that Goku was the focus and GT was all about him, but what I'm saying is that it's not a problem. Few characters have ever been close to Goku besides his antagonists. He's the main character, so I don't think that's a problem.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:07 pm

Xeogran wrote:I see this being pushed a lot, to the point it made me wonder why is it being repeated far more than it should.

GT already starts with Goku getting weakened (losing Teleport & SS3 mastery) after becoming a kid.

Then, at multiple times, he has to team up with others to win. He couldn't just powerhouse his way to win:

Remember Luud, who required Pan to blast him from the inside? For Baby he needed assistance of everyone else all the time, Uub included (who also gets accussed of doing nothing.)

Super 17 had everyone stall him, then 18 being the key player for winning. Literally the same thing happened against Beerus, yet I don't see it being mentioned as much (everyone stalling until Goku's inevitable return to save them)

Meanwhile in Z, Goku solved all of the conflicts in a similar manner too, yet nobody really realizes it, because it was disguised under someone else.

Take for example Trunks finishing Mecha Freeza. It's cool someone else finished off the main villain. But what we learned next? That if Trunks didn't appear, Goku would land a hour later and do the same thing.

Or in another case, the characters had to play dumb just so Goku gets a chance to fight the main villain (Cell/Buu)

I mean he is the main character, it's obvious most screentime will belong to him. I don't see why only GT gets the flack for it though, and find it pretty unfair.

I'll just say that it was very wasteful to have a small goku but he did not lose power and the truth mostly did everything.
apart from the creation of very few "new" characters who are warriors who already had nothing really done or only served to give energy or gain time my problem comes with the sacrifice of buu to merge with uub only to be left out after against S 17.
the shadow dragon goku defeated all or almost all. And in base.
goten and trunks wanted to merge in gotenks but goku tell them no ...
vegeta does not win any fight except for killing nappa again
in z goku he did not defeat all his villains and they all did something on their part and they had great fights
trunks defeated frieza, gohan defeated cell, with buu had some help.
warrior z vs saiyans, piccolo vs 17, piccolo vs frieza and gohan vs super buu
in the tournament of power everyone had participation and their fights
the point is not that they are not a "support" is that their great majority were just that
in gt that fights had piccolo? What fights did Gohan have?What fights did 18 have? and goten or trunks?
many of them would have at most one where they were not just support
Well if I would say that although there is some participation is minimal compared to other series of the franchise

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by lancerman » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:24 pm

In the original manga Goku only flat out defeated the Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo Damiao, Piccolo Jr, Freeza and I guess Boo if you want to count the Genkai Dama of the entire planet's energy. And even in those arcs only the first 3 were Goku centric from start to finish. Goku was either traveling to Namek or in a healing tank for most of that arc and was dead for most of the Boo arc. He only showed up at the very beginning and very end. Even in the Cell and Saiyan arc he was kept away from the action for awhile.

In GT he's the primary character in the Black Star Dragon Ball arc. Literally all the side characters but him and Pan get taken out of commission in the Baby arc and he does all the serious fighting to defeat Baby. Even when he's sidelined in the 17 arc he's facing Cell and Freeza before eventually coming out and taking down 17. 90% of the Shadow Dragon arc is just him and Pan

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by lancerman » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:34 pm

nosferatu wrote:If GT is Goku time then what is Super :lolno: hes even there when its absolutely irrelevant.
Dragon Ball Super
-Goku loses to Beerus
-Goku kinda cheap shots Freeza when Vegeta already has him beaten (Freeza was going to blow up the planet so it was necessary, but it was really more of Vegeta won and Goku was stopping a sore sport)
-Goku loses to Hit
-Goku doesn't defeat Zamasu, Trunks does. And Zeno finishes him off
-Goku craps out of UI before he can beat Jiren and needs the help of Freeza to ring him out so 17 can win the tournament.

Dragon Ball GT
-Goku defeats Baby by himself
-Goku deals the finishing blow to 17 with a distraction from 18
-Goku defeats most every Shadow Dragon then his secret plan with the universe Genki Dama finishes the final one off.

Between Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, and Dragon Ball Super, Goku was easily the least successful in Super

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ricky84 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:40 pm

lancerman wrote:
nosferatu wrote:If GT is Goku time then what is Super :lolno: hes even there when its absolutely irrelevant.
Dragon Ball Super
-Goku loses to Beerus
-Goku kinda cheap shots Freeza when Vegeta already has him beaten (Freeza was going to blow up the planet so it was necessary, but it was really more of Vegeta won and Goku was stopping a sore sport)
-Goku loses to Hit
-Goku doesn't defeat Zamasu, Trunks does. And Zeno finishes him off
-Goku craps out of UI before he can beat Jiren and needs the help of Freeza to ring him out so 17 can win the tournament.

Dragon Ball GT
-Goku defeats Baby by himself
-Goku deals the finishing blow to 17 with a distraction from 18
-Goku defeats most every Shadow Dragon then his secret plan with the universe Genki Dama finishes the final one off.

Between Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, and Dragon Ball Super, Goku was easily the least successful in Super
To be fair, Goku did beat or at least tie with Hit in their rematch. And he did beat down Jiren at his peak with MUI.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:56 am

nosferatu wrote:At the time of GT the market was full of dragonball hence why only 64 episodes. The same will happen again and then hopefully 4 ever let the franchize rest in peace shitty milking is a disgrace.
Dragon Ball GT was apparently cancelled but at least they gave it a rather masterful farewell.

GT will always be one of my fave DB series (DBZ > DBGT > DB > DBK > SDBH > DBK:TFC > DBS)

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:39 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote: Dragon Ball GT was apparently cancelled but at least they gave it a rather masterful farewell.
Was it ever confirmed that it was cancelled? As far as i know it was completely opposite and series was meant to end at Baby saga.
And honestly, everything in GT seems like this. Reasons:

-Baby saga ends at EP40 (just very round number)
-"A Hero's Legacy" special was aired during Baby saga and said that 100 years have passed since Goku beaten Baby. They could've aired it after Shadow Dragons arc otherwise.
-Things changed since Super 17 saga. Goku and Vegeta got huge power boost completely surpassing Majuub.
-Opening has changed only once to show Baby and Goku SSJ4 at the end. No change for next arcs.

It looked like GT was actually extended and last two arcs were not planned.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:44 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:As far as i know it was completely opposite and series was meant to end at Baby saga.
I've never read anything (real) to substantiate this.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:32 pm

Absolutely was Goku Time and that was a good thing. He already had left everybody in the dust, Vegeta explains later that he stopped chasing after Goku after that N°1 speech in Z, Gohan is a teacher and wears a bloody tie, Goten a ladies man and Trunks a CEO. They don't even look like the Z-senshi anymore, so it's logical to focus on the dude that never changes all throughout the show and keeps trying to best himself. Only Uub remained relevant in that regard but he was unfairly left out. They could've given him something more than one-shotting Rildo, literally 4 seconds of spotlight.

The Space arc was Goku, Pan and Trunks time, the Baby on Earth Arc was the least Goku Time of all, in Super 17 arc they all looked like Gotenks and Gohan did in Fusion Reborn, the dragon Arc was just DraGoku Ball GT. Seven new enemies, and not even Trunks went along, he went to fucking space but he couldn't go to Ginger Town? they were all there when Shenron didn't show up, so what the hell?

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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sintzu » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:07 am

Koitsukai wrote:Absolutely was Goku Time and that was a good thing. He already had left everybody in the dust, Vegeta explains later that he stopped chasing after Goku after that N°1 speech in Z.
It's a shame we never got another show that had Vegeta training and trying to keep up after his #1 speech instead of the lazy road GT took by just having him give up. I wonder how that would've turned out. :wink: :roll:

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Kurakaio wrote:Vegeta eventually gets SSJ4, but it's useless and he only serves to fuse into Gogeta, who couldn't get the job done anyway.
If that wasn't bad enough, the writers went a step further by saying Vegeta couldn't transform into it again because he wasn't "special" like Goku. How they were picked to write for DB (or any Shonen for that matter) is something I'll never understand.
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Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ricky84 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:35 am

sintzu wrote:
Koitsukai wrote:Absolutely was Goku Time and that was a good thing. He already had left everybody in the dust, Vegeta explains later that he stopped chasing after Goku after that N°1 speech in Z.
It's a shame we never got another show that had Vegeta training and trying to keep up after his #1 speech instead of the lazy road GT took by just having him give up. I wonder how that would've turned out. :wink: :roll:

Image
Kurakaio wrote:Vegeta eventually gets SSJ4, but it's useless and he only serves to fuse into Gogeta, who couldn't get the job done anyway.
If that wasn't bad enough, the writers went a step further by saying Vegeta couldn't transform into it again because he wasn't "special" like Goku. How they were picked to write for DB (or any Shonen for that matter) is something I'll never understand.
Did the writers of GT really say that? Holy shit that's stupid smh. Not only does that go against Vegeta's character but it also contradicts saiyan biology in general (limitless potential and the natural urge to keep improving).
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