Why do people abbreviate Super Saiyan as SSJ?

[CTAkuma]

I see this everywhere and rarely do i see people who use the more accurate "SS" as an abbreviation. From what i understand of Japanese grammar, the "jin"(人) in "Super Saiya-jin" is just a suffix and they don't actually use "jin" ,neither do we use suffixes in abbrevations. To add to that why don't people then say SSJGSSJ instead of SSGSS? This always mistified me

[MyVisionity]

From what I understand "SSJ" originated within the fandom and was never officially used anywhere. I guess it just stuck out of habit, especially as it was in written form over the Internet.

Personally I much prefer "Saiya-jin" or simply "Saiya" over "Saiyan", which I've always thought makes little to no sense. Even worse when applying the Japanese pronunciation to it.

Here's some additional info from an old thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26543

[VegettoEX]

Pre-FUNimation, plenty of English-language fansubs, not to mention international (non-English) translations/dubs, kept "Saiyajin" as-is, unadapted. Looking to my immediate surroundings at my desk right here, I see "Saiyajin" from a German comic, "Saiyajin" from Mexican stuff, and some old fansubs that kept it.

Also, plenty of fans at the time didn't actually understand the word/character "jin". We were watching this show and constantly heard them saying "Saiyajin" over and over and over.

It stuck.

"SS" is also a ship/naval abbreviation (all aboard the SS Vegeta!), so it felt kinda silly. There have also always been concerns about not associating with the Nazi "SS", but as we get further away from World War II (which... wasn't all that long ago back when DBZ was new?!), this seems to be less of a concern for the kids.

"Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" was literally introduced right alongside its own abbreviation in our alphabet as "SSGSS", so it solidified itself from the start.

[Skar]

Besides the stuff VegettoEX mentioned, another reason why I've used "SSJ" is so the Ascended Super Saiyan form doesn't get abbreviated as "ASS" . I guess the official term is Super Saiyan Grade II but I've gotten used to calling it Ascended Super Saiyan.

[KBABZ]

There have also always been concerns about not associating with the Nazi "SS", but as we get further away from World War II (which... wasn't all that long ago back when DBZ was new?!), this seems to be less of a concern for the kids.

What's funny is that to this day Pokémon uses SS Anne for the ship in the Kanto games, so I don't think it's anything to worry about.

[Robo4900]

I still think it's kind of silly that people continue to keep the J in the abbreviations TBH... SS1, SS2, SS3, SS4, SSG, and SSB work fine IMO.

[USSJ Roshi]

The word Jin is synonymous with the Arabic word Djinn or Djinni. Beings that are the opposite of Angels. Essentially Devils. In the Bible it says that they bred with Humans to give birth to silver haired Humanoids AKA Nephilims, like Dante from Devil May Cry or ummm Trunks... Maybe.... His hair used to be much more silver

By the way. I think. The 666's in Dragon Ball. I believe refers to the Bhuddist medititive pose. Where you put your thumb and closest finger together. Which looks like 666's... That specific hand pose represents the Sun or the position of it. When the Sun is up. Palms up. When the Sun is down. Palms down. There is a sense of Sun worship is Dragon Ball. You also see Porunga do the 3 6's hand symbol, but I forget after which scene... I'm so ashamed I don't remember ( ._.)

[VegettoEX]

Someone more knowledgeable than me could/should chime in, but as I've stated before, I'm not aware of any etymological link between 人 (jin, nin, hito) in Japanese and الجن‎ (djinn, jinn, al-jinn) in Arabic.

Trying to form stretched connections with these is unnecessary.

[Desassina]

Jin in Saiya-jin refers to a being of that race.
Seijin in Namekku-seijin refers to an alien from planet Namek.
Majin has the characters of an evil being but it's a compound translation for genie.
Shin in Kaioshin refers to being divine, but a Shin-jin is a Core being from the World Core Planet, Kaishin-sei.

Besides the stuff VegettoEX mentioned, another reason why I've used "SSJ" is so the Ascended Super Saiyan form doesn't get abbreviated as "ASS" . I guess the official term is Super Saiyan Grade II but I've gotten used to calling it Ascended Super Saiyan.

You kinda have to get up on your ass to play that bass (beyond ascended super saiyan)

[Cetra]

Because Saiyajin or "SJ" is perfectly fine for the term. It is true that "Amerika-jin", "Doitsu-jin", "Nihon-jin" means American, German, Japanese, etc. but I think for a fictional word like Saiyajin the "jin" is perfectly fit as part of the name itself. Junko Iwamoto Seebeck who is Japanese and translated the German manga with her husband Jürgen seemed to have the same opinion because the Saiyajin were the only ones where they made that decision while they flat out translated Namekku-seijin as "Namekianer" (Namekians) and Majin as "Dämon" (demon). This does not change of course that even in Japanese the "jin" for the name is acknowledged as postfix to indicate that those are people from x or entities with characteristic x. Characters like Baby flat out say "Saiya power" in GT's Japanese version so there is no doubt about that. But in Dragon Ball I always got that feeling that it was part of the name as it flows so well.

The voice actors do not care, so far. Horikawa-san at Kameha-con addressed that people say "Saiyan" but that he of course uses "Saiyajin". In English areas I would probably also say "Super Saiyan" but for me, being used to the Japanese word used in English just like Kaioushin instead of Supreme Kai I feel like I have not finished the word.

[Desassina]

I guess that it's the same for human referring to both man and woman, when a man is someone not quite complete with his (planet) race, and a woman is not necessarily from another (due to the wo prefix). Jin completes Saiya, which by itself is a pun of Yasai (vegetable), because you don't use races to call people. Well, except for a few racist words, that is.

[Robo4900]

As I understand it, the only way jin and djinn link is that "Majin" is generally considered to adapt to djinn, thus "Djinn-Boo" in the manga.
Despite what Geekdom101 may tell you(And no hard feelings here; just dissuading misinformation), Djinn-Boo is actually an entirely valid way of rendering Majin Boo.

But, I'm otherwise in the same boat as VegettoEX -- in fact, I'm sure he's familiar with this link too, he just didn't mention it because it's not all that related to "Super Saiya-jin" -- so... If anyone has any greater knowledge on this, that'd be nice, but as far as I know, the only link between "Jin" and "Djinn" is through "Majin".

Because Saiyajin or "SJ" is perfectly fine for the term. It is true that "Amerika-jin", "Doitsu-jin", "Nihon-jin" means American, German, Japanese, etc. but I think for a fictional word like Saiyajin the "jin" is perfectly fit as part of the name itself. Junko Iwamoto Seebeck who is Japanese and translated the German manga with her husband Jürgen seemed to have the same opinion because the Saiyajin were the only ones where they made that decision while they flat out translated Namekku-seijin as "Namekianer" (Namekians) and Majin as "Dämon" (demon). This does not change of course that even in Japanese the "jin" for the name is acknowledged as postfix for an origin. Characters like Baby flat out say "Saiya power" in GT's Japanese version so there is no doubt about that. But in Dragon Ball I always got that feeling that it was part of the name as it flows so well.

I don't really understand this train of logic, though... It's inconsistent; you're deciding that a part of the language you'd normally translate, you're leaving untranslated for no reason. Inconsistency in translation really bugs me, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that... (Looks sideways at "King Kai", "Kaioken", "Destruct 'O Disc", and "Kamehameha")

("Destruct 'O Disc" is the spelling used in the DVD menu quiz for one of the Pioneer movies)

[Cetra]

I don't really understand this train of logic, though... It's inconsistent; you're deciding that a part of the language you'd normally translate, you're leaving untranslated for no reason. Inconsistency in translation really bugs me, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that... (Looks sideways at "King Kai", "Kaioken", "Destruct 'O Disc", and "Kamehameha")

It is not "for no reason". You have to think of this from the perspective of those who need to translate that. They see that - and one of them even knows the language natively - and have to decide "okay, how are we gonna do this?" "Saiyaner" in German would have been a perfectly fine translation but I can totally see how you speak something out loud and get the feeling "even though it has a postfix with a certain meaning it also feels like it is part of the name itself". And Saiyajin totally "feels" like a name to me. But I am used to it for over 2 decades so maybe that is why you cannot get behind that feeling with me. Also I disagree with the stance of "leaving things untranslated". Not everything needs to be translated. I am used to people using "Majin" as well. Just like we have words in every language that are flat out taken from their original language but do not really translate them. It is not absolutely the same thing but just one of those many bendings of language that occurs while language develops. I know you are specifically referring to "parts" but I think that is also not that big of a problem. For me it is more important that IF YOU DECIDE TO translate it you do it the most correct way possible. Something that a lot of translators fail to do in many video games, e.g.

[USSJ Roshi]

Someone more knowledgeable than me could/should chime in, but as I've stated before, I'm not aware of any etymological link between 人 (jin, nin, hito) in Japanese and الجن‎ (djinn, jinn, al-jinn) in Arabic.

Trying to form stretched connections with these is unnecessary.

No. I think the Jin in Saiya-Jin. Is simply the Arabic word Jinn minus an "n".

If the word Jin simply referred to the word "people". Then why are the Nameks and Humans not called Name-Jin or Huma-Jin...? Why? Because the Saiya-Jins are a representation of heavenly beings AKA Angels or Demons. That is why Goku is depicted as an Angel throughout Dragon Ball.

Or maybe they think Saiya-Jin is just a really cool name and it actually has no significance or symbolic meaning what so ever..? NOOO! This is Sir Akira Toriyama we're talking about. He is "Illuminati" \o/

I talk about there being a sense of Sun worship in Dragon Ball. The very first scene in Dragon Ball, in the intro. Is the Sun. Can it be anymore blaten?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

"Jinn (Arabic: الجن‎, al-jinn), also Romanized as djinn or Anglicized as genies (with the more broad meaning of spirits or demons, depending on source)[1][2] are supernatural creatures in early Arabian and later Islamic mythology and theology."


On another note... If you've ever gone through a conspiracy nut phase(like me) and checked out all that non-sense... about shape-shifting Frieza men. Uhhh i mean Lizard men... the comparison between ancient drawings and eye-witness sightings(older than Dragon Ball) to Frieza in all his forms... is uncanny. Each transformation representing a rank among Reptilians. Too Frieza's white skin or scales. Which means he would be of Royal Reptilian blood and he is! He's a Prince!!

Or maybe I'm thinking too hard...

I am not saying that stuff is true or anything... heh... but it is very interesting stuff and I think this is what Sir Akira Toriyama refers to in his stories. However I have no clue what the symbolism in Dragon Ball Super is, if any... Personally I think it's just a cash grab, hence the introduction to so many new Universes and characters. Characters = Figures = Money. Simple.

[Desassina]

Cetra, I hate to bust the bubble, but there's no magic (or very little at least) in those translations. Saiyan from Saiya-jin is no different than American adding an N (from man/woman?) to America (an even I know that they're from the United States). Namekian is no different than a Martian being from Mars when the original word kept the planet's name intact and a few English ones use T in the place of other letters (consequence into consequential). If Saiya was used by Baby like that, then it's just what it is: a race name, which -jin completes as a being from that race.

[VegettoEX]

You all are writing too much and making things more confusing than they need to be for potential readers. Again:

Someone more knowledgeable than me could/should chime in, but as I've stated before, I'm not aware of any etymological link between 人 (jin, nin, hito) in Japanese and الجن‎ (djinn, jinn, al-jinn) in Arabic.

Trying to form stretched connections with these is unnecessary.

Likewise, gin has nothing to do with any of this.

[Cetra]

Cetra, I hate to bust the bubble, but there's no magic (or very little at least) in those translations. Saiyan from Saiya-jin is no different than American adding an N (from man/woman?) to America (an even I know that they're from the United States). Namekian is no different than a Martian being from Mars when the original word kept the planet's name intact and a few English ones use T in the place of others (consequence into consequential). If Saiya was used by Baby like that, then it's just what it is: a race name, which -jin completes as a being from that race.

I am learning Japanese since 2007. You do not need to tell me what the postfix "jin" is used for. And if a native Japanese speaker has exactly the same mindset I see no reason to not go that route. This has nothing to do with "no magic". Language is not stiff and is often bent to be made more comfortable for people. That is all. The meaning is not actually lost.

EDIT: I wrote you a PM. I have no intention to follow up with the old-fashioned argument chain.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

If the word Jin simply referred to the word "people". Then why are the Nameks and Humans not called Name-Jin or Huma-Jin...?

Namekians are "Namekkusei-jin", which would translate into something like "people from Planet Namek".
The Japanese word 人 ("jin" or "nin" or "hito") does in fact mean "person" or "human" or "human being".

[Desassina]

Cetra... Would you say that without knowing who's on the other side? I don't think that clinging into Japanese classes or teachings and the mindset of another person whose reference on a message board should go without a pedantic debate like this is good for you.

[MyVisionity]

Saiyan from Saiya-jin is no different than American adding an N (from man/woman?) to America (an even I know that they're from the United States).

Except unlike America, "Saiya" does not refer to a place. Adding an N doesn't really add up the same way it would for "Namekian" or "American" etc.

So what would make someone adapt Saiya-jin as "Saiyan"?