Robo 4900 wrote:Well, for starters there's the fact all the characters are flanderised beyond recognition
I honestly find this criticism to be pretty baffling. To me, the characterizations are identical to what they have been and to what you should expect from the characters at this point in the series. Maybe your perception is different watching it as an adult versus seeing it as a child?
People pretend Vegeta being cocky or Goku being stupid are new things. They're literally defining characteristics of the characters that will never change nor should they ever change.
no, your perception is the one that's different. Goku was dumb here and there but we clearly saw him maturing in Z arcs specially his characterization in Last two arcs. whether it's being more calmer and confident or the symbolic and thematic growth from a student to his own master. he likes passing his Martial Arts knowledge to kids and before the outcome now he can predict whether the opponent is even worth it or not like with Nappa or Reacoom. now in DBS its hard to believe that this same retard is the one we saw in DBZ, whether he says he's no good at training kids to Dende in DBS which is godawful characterization or him being an Ultra Retard and not being able to tell disguised monaka to be Beerus with ki or Natural movements. those things make him more retarded, Vegeta in the end of Boo arc was more mature and stopped chasing Goku and even as a Character was more "Humanized". there is no reason for him to talk shit to Goku when he called him better warrior than him whereas in DBS he is saying the same stuff from Cell arc. that's character regression not development. he's a One Dimensional Typical stoic guy in DBS who has nothing new about his character other than whining even though he got over it in kid boo fight. he risked his life to let Goku create Genkidama by stalling Kid boo whereas in ToP he refuses to give Goku his genki like a bitch despite universe being at stake. you seem to have a soft spot for DBS, but it's writing is just fanficky level trash and there's no need to drag Z into same realm as DBS.
there's the plotting worthy of an 8-year-old's fanfic
I don't see how you can sit here and say that the plot of the Zamasu arc isn't far more compelling and thematically interesting than anything we saw in Z/Post-Raditz of the manga. Also, the ToP is by far the most ambitious story that DB has ever attempted. Sure, it didn't turn out as well as it could have been, but it still surpasses most arcs from the original series IMO.
lmao, that's a good one. the Plot of Zamasu arc is itself a plothole. a God saying all mortals are evil after seeing two brainless creatures fight..... wow you call this compelling?
he might as well see two stray dogs fighting and say mortals are bad based on them. with the most cliché evil goku evil Kaioshin idea and a deua ex machina to save them, if that's more compelling to you than what we got in Z part then you don't know the meaning of the word. are you being Sarcastic or not because you aren't making any sense. Tournament of Power is one of the most crappiest anime arcs ever. ToP encapsulates some of the worst of DB.
If the Dark Star DB arc from GT was humor but forgetting how Toriyama made the jokes so great, the ToP arc is fighting while forgetting what gave those old fights weight & impact in DB/Z.
I think most of the episodes in the tournament are kind of inoffensive, mostly boring before bad. But the lack of narrative structure, shitty pacing, and failure at making it feel like a battle royale really brings it down.
Don't even get me started on just how terrible some episodes can get, making it the peak of atrocious Dragon Ball writing.
I've never seen an arc so disconnected, so disjointed, that it achieves the opposite of what its first goal is, a battle royale. we always had downtime in DBZ arcs so that we can see what our heroes are protecting or different scenes to see what's happening in other scenarios, nonstop fight fight fight is what ruined ToP and give Non DB fans the fake idea that DB is nonstop fight because that's exactly what ToP was. the retarded asspulls vegeta got because of "muh cabba" or the crap that was Mastered Ultra Instinct with the most boring lazy design from fanfictions.
Really really really want to consider it DB's worst arc because it's overarching presentstion is straight garbage.
This really is one of Dragon Ball's worst arcs.
PFM18 wrote:If anything is flanderized, it is this comment. We literally have the main characters using the same transformation in the upcoming movie, as they were using before the series was even announced. SSB has persisted throughout the entire series. They literally have not gained a new prominent transformation this entire time. In Z you had SSJ, then the Grades, then SSJ2, then SSJ3, etc. The only prominent transformations we see are of antagonists, and going by that logic, Z/post-raditz had nine transformations. Vegeta had 1, Freeza with 4,(including his buff form) Cell with 2, and Buu with 2. Frankly, this really isn't legitimate criticism.
again, he's talking about SS Transformations. in DBS they clearly are lazy recolors to sell toys like ssj Red, ssj blue, ssj rose and later on ssj white (UI Mastered). in Z the ssj grades were ssj only but with different levels of power consumption. ssj2 and ssj3 were different from older ssj. in DBS, they have given so much options to Goku like seriously he has base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue. did you see that? how lazy fanservice it is?
in Z he uses either ssj or ssj2 most of the time since ssj3 had flaws.
PFM18 wrote:A slow pace is standard for this franchise. See any of the other anime series to come out of Dragon Ball.
no, the ToP is dragged for no reason. Battle Royale is supposed to happen quickly but in DBS its episodic mindless entertainment. like i am watching monster of the week program. "today's episode is about Goku beating him", "today's episode will be about #18 beating her", shit like this. it's like a contest among writers/animators for who writes the most coolest shit, ToP is just an arc about cool shit and no substance.
Toei reuses animation at least twice per episode. Characters talking about stuff the audience already knows takes up about half of each episode.
he teams are way bigger than necessary. Could have been 5 characters per team and not 10. There was no reason for them to force themselves to create over 60 new characters especially considering 80% of them were boring to watch in action. There were way more fights than needed and it left me bored out of my mind. Second, the scaling is shit. Yes this is important and in Z atleast the logic established made sense and we know that Roshi or Kuririn won't go on par with Cell or Boo. we don't see Goku in SS3 doing Kamehameha vs Kuririn.
Power in ToP means nothing and you are rarely ever given an indication of how strong anyone is so anyone could be matched up with anyone and the result would exactly the same.
This is connected to the problem I listed earlier as well; with 80 fucking participants in the tournament there was no way they could have managed to establish a hierarchy so you just sort of lose track of how strong everyone but the main characters are. It just leaves you asking "okay, what was the point" or "okay, how did that happen" every time anything happens. And since you already know Universe 7 is going to win in the end, it feels really empty. Friendship powerups are introduced instead of interesting ways to deal with the bad guy. Trunks, Vegeta, Goku - everyone gets oneNear the end of the ToP every episode is the same.
They punch Jiren and it doesn't work.
This is the focus of at least 7 episodes. No one gains an advantage, the tables don't turn, they don't change approaches. They just attack him the SAME way over and over. Bruh they spend a whole episode trying to fucking step on a bug. Goku Post-Z resorts to using Landmines in a fight irrespective of it being Tournament or not, lmao.
The animation was only inconsistent in the retellings. Since, the animation has consistently blown everything else Dragon Ball out of the water.
Super has better animation than Z but Z has better direction, sound design and tricks that make a bad looking fight enjoyable. Super is superior when it comes to animation but Z is a better show due to how smartly its handled. i would rather watch Z than DBS with its lazy designs.
I just disagree. The music is amazing.
as Animeajay also pointed out on Twitter, the music in Kai is scenes are directed from a fan viewpoint, rather than a narrative one. this is the same issue with DBS one, it doesn't have that Wuxia feeling anymore but just typical "Epic Anime Music" and totally lacking the identity that Kikuchi score had.
Yes, absolutely. All the filler, all the movies, and GT are all not part of the main anime continuity. That can be clearly seen. In the case of Super, there is no filler so everything is part of the continuity.
DBS itself isn't worth considering as a Part of community because of the bad decisions being taken like making Broli Canon again because he's famous.