Can I just ignore Super's existence?

[Spider-Man]

Still haven't changed that avatar I see.

It's a cool avatar.

As for the OP you can ignore it why watching something you don't like?

[ShadowBardock89]

To the OP,
You could ignore it, but you will be constantly reminded of it with every Dragon Ball product going forward.

[Waluigiman]

Yes you can, but the future merchandise and the internet will make it difficult to ignore/forget it.

[Ripper 30]

the retarded asspulls vegeta got because of "muh cabba"

Um..litterally every transformation in Z is an asspull. And I never got why people were upset about Vegeta getting SSJBE because he was keeping a promise to a Saiyan he respected, but have no problem with Gohan sh**ting out SSJ2 because some random android he didn´t know gets killed.

Again, you are just misusing the word asspull, according to you every new thing is an asspull. Here's a thing, there was either build-up or Logical reasoning for every DBZ transformation, SS and SS2 were build-up very well and SS3 was because of the 3 year training in Otherworld. Nice way to deflect DBS flaws on Z, here's a thing :
Gohan was build-up to be this warrior with potential inside him, Goku saw a glimpse of it and that's why wanted Gohan to kill Cell and Cell also wanted to see it. You call it an asspull?
Your points don't make sense, Gohan didn't felt any emotional connection with #16 but his words were just enough to break the emotional shell he had of not wanting the killed instinct to come out. He never even mentioned #16's name after it which proves my point of him not giving two shit about him dying or not, it was just emotional trigger. I mean if you can't even comprehend this basic stuff then you are better off sticking to your DBS Where Vegeta outta nowhere uses Cabba even though his bond wasn't even that strong like Goku had with Kuririn. He himself said in DBZ as well, that he doesn't have that kind of power to overcame his limits by remembering his loved ones otherwise he would have surpassed Goku by remembering Blooma and Trunks. What's this "kept promise to a Saiyan he respected" lol that's a nice one, he promised him that he will pull something out of his ass conveniently and surpass characters outta nowhere. Yes, this ain't Dragon Ball anymore but Fairy Tail.

And since you already know Universe 7 is going to win in the end, it feels really empty.

You can apply that logic to any other moment in the series and it would be exactly the same. The beam struggle between Gohan and Super Perfect Cell is empty and pointless because we know Gohan is gonna win. Goku spirit bomb struggle with Kid Buu is pointless because we know he´s gonna win. The threat of Namek exploding while Goku and Frieza fight is pointless because we know he is gonna win and somehow escape destruction. That is not a valid claim against super in any right.

Again, that's not how it worked in DBZ, right now you can say whatever you want to. When Cell Self Destructed himself no one expected him to return,This makes your argument moot. When Gohan was beating the shit outta Boo we all thought that Boo will die now. Before Cell appeared we all thought Goku and co. Will have a rematch against Androids after Goku recovers. Again, you are the one not making sense. What you're saying about Z is speculation whereas with ToP, it's placement is between Time Skip so we already know what's gonna happen. If it took place after Time Skip then atleast there would be some unpredictability. Nice deflection on Z again.

again, he's talking about SS Transformations. in DBS they clearly are lazy recolors to sell toys like ssj Red, ssj blue, ssj rose and later on ssj white (UI Mastered). in Z the ssj grades were ssj only but with different levels of power consumption. ssj2 and ssj3 were different from older ssj. in DBS, they have given so many options to Goku like seriously he has base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue. did you see that? how lazy fanservice it is?
in Z he uses either ssj or ssj2 most of the time since ssj3 had flaws.

While I will absolutely agree that the designs of the new god forms are lazy, Take a moment to consider that after Super Saiyan most designs got ridiculous. SSJ2 is just super saiyan with lighting around it, and SSJ3 is just Super Saiyan Raditz. And I will applaud super for giving kaioken a use again, even if it was only for nostalgia fanservice.

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eyes. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

a God saying all mortals are evil after seeing two brainless creatures fight..... wow you call this compelling?

Anything would sound uncompelling when you oversimplify them like that. Thats like me calling the cell saga ¨a big robot bug built to be evil¨ or the Buu saga ¨ a giant wad of bubble gum thats evil¨

Because that's exactly what happened, judging something based on two brainless creatures fighting is retarded. He might see two stray dogs fighting and call the mortals evil. Did he even took his sweet time to see two people with intellect fight or seeing Kid Boo/Freeza destroying stuff in Universe 7, atleast this way it would make sense instead of judging things by two Barbarians fighting and losing to a mortal then stealing his body instead of asking other very important questions to Zuno.

[8000 Saiyan]

Of course you can ignore it. You're not forced to acknowledge Super.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

the retarded asspulls vegeta got because of "muh cabba"

Um..litterally every transformation in Z is an asspull. And I never got why people were upset about Vegeta getting SSJBE because he was keeping a promise to a Saiyan he respected, but have no problem with Gohan sh**ting out SSJ2 because some random android he didn´t know gets killed.

Again, you are just misusing the word asspull, according to you every new thing is an asspull. Here's a thing, there was either build-up or Logical reasoning for every DBZ transformation, SS and SS2 were build-ups very well and SS3 was because of the 3-year training in Otherworld. Nice way to deflect DBS flaws on Z, here's a thing :
Gohan was a build-up to be this warrior with potential inside him, Goku saw a glimpse of it and that's why wanted Gohan to kill Cell and Cell also wanted to see it. You call it an asspull?
Your points don't make sense, Gohan didn't feel any emotional connection with #16 but his words were just enough to break the emotional shell he had of not wanting the killer instinct to come out. He never even mentioned #16's name after it which proves my point of him not giving two shit about him dying or not, it was just an emotional trigger. I mean if you can't even comprehend this basic stuff then you are better off sticking to your DBS Where Vegeta outta nowhere uses Cabba even though his bond wasn't even that strong like Goku had with Kuririn. He himself said in DBZ as well, that he doesn't have that kind of power to overcome his limits by remembering his loved ones otherwise he would have surpassed Goku by remembering Blooma and Trunks. What's this "kept promise to a Saiyan he respected" lol that's a nice one, he promised him that he will pull something out of his ass conveniently and surpass characters outta nowhere. Yes, this ain't Dragon Ball anymore but Fairy Tail.

While I do agree on your points of Gohan being built up to be strong, your points about #16 are objectively wrong. #16 causing Gohan to ¨Let it go¨ and go SSJ2, whether it be from his death or from his emotional speech, is stupid for the same reason. Gohan should have had that emotional trigger already from his friends and family literally being beaten to death, and not from a stranger who states the obvious. #16 reminding Gohan of stuff he already knows and having Gohan suddenly change his mind about it is just as dumb as Vegeta keeping his promise.

And on the topic of Vegeta, saying that he and cabba don't have a connection is not only outright wrong but also actively undermining Cabbas involvement in the story. It is clear that Vegeta cares about cabba. If he didn't he wouldn't have even considered using the Super Dragon Balls to bring him and the other Universe 6 Saiyans back. Vegeta throughout the series has grown from when he first appeared, he is a man of his word. He is gonna keep a promise to someone he really cares about, or at least try his best. This single moment expands his character much closer to where he is at the end of Z. And undercutting it by calling it an asspull is a blow to not only super but to Vegeta's character as a whole. It shows Vegeta´s desperate need for more power in order to defeat Jiren.

[Nokra]

the retarded asspulls vegeta got because of "muh cabba"

Um..litterally every transformation in Z is an asspull. And I never got why people were upset about Vegeta getting SSJBE because he was keeping a promise to a Saiyan he respected, but have no problem with Gohan sh**ting out SSJ2 because some random android he didn´t know gets killed.

Again, you are just misusing the word asspull, according to you every new thing is an asspull. Here's a thing, there was either build-up or Logical reasoning for every DBZ transformation, SS and SS2 were build-up very well and SS3 was because of the 3 year training in Otherworld. Nice way to deflect DBS flaws on Z, here's a thing :
Gohan was build-up to be this warrior with potential inside him, Goku saw a glimpse of it and that's why wanted Gohan to kill Cell and Cell also wanted to see it. You call it an asspull?
Your points don't make sense, Gohan didn't felt any emotional connection with #16 but his words were just enough to break the emotional shell he had of not wanting the killed instinct to come out. He never even mentioned #16's name after it which proves my point of him not giving two shit about him dying or not, it was just emotional trigger. I mean if you can't even comprehend this basic stuff then you are better off sticking to your DBS Where Vegeta outta nowhere uses Cabba even though his bond wasn't even that strong like Goku had with Kuririn. He himself said in DBZ as well, that he doesn't have that kind of power to overcame his limits by remembering his loved ones otherwise he would have surpassed Goku by remembering Blooma and Trunks. What's this "kept promise to a Saiyan he respected" lol that's a nice one, he promised him that he will pull something out of his ass conveniently and surpass characters outta nowhere. Yes, this ain't Dragon Ball anymore but Fairy Tail.

And since you already know Universe 7 is going to win in the end, it feels really empty.

You can apply that logic to any other moment in the series and it would be exactly the same. The beam struggle between Gohan and Super Perfect Cell is empty and pointless because we know Gohan is gonna win. Goku spirit bomb struggle with Kid Buu is pointless because we know he´s gonna win. The threat of Namek exploding while Goku and Frieza fight is pointless because we know he is gonna win and somehow escape destruction. That is not a valid claim against super in any right.

Again, that's not how it worked in DBZ, right now you can say whatever you want to. When Cell Self Destructed himself no one expected him to return,This makes your argument moot. When Gohan was beating the shit outta Boo we all thought that Boo will die now. Before Cell appeared we all thought Goku and co. Will have a rematch against Androids after Goku recovers. Again, you are the one not making sense. What you're saying about Z is speculation whereas with ToP, it's placement is between Time Skip so we already know what's gonna happen. If it took place after Time Skip then atleast there would be some unpredictability. Nice deflection on Z again.

again, he's talking about SS Transformations. in DBS they clearly are lazy recolors to sell toys like ssj Red, ssj blue, ssj rose and later on ssj white (UI Mastered). in Z the ssj grades were ssj only but with different levels of power consumption. ssj2 and ssj3 were different from older ssj. in DBS, they have given so many options to Goku like seriously he has base, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue. did you see that? how lazy fanservice it is?
in Z he uses either ssj or ssj2 most of the time since ssj3 had flaws.

While I will absolutely agree that the designs of the new god forms are lazy, Take a moment to consider that after Super Saiyan most designs got ridiculous. SSJ2 is just super saiyan with lighting around it, and SSJ3 is just Super Saiyan Raditz. And I will applaud super for giving kaioken a use again, even if it was only for nostalgia fanservice.

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eyes. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

a God saying all mortals are evil after seeing two brainless creatures fight..... wow you call this compelling?

Anything would sound uncompelling when you oversimplify them like that. Thats like me calling the cell saga ¨a big robot bug built to be evil¨ or the Buu saga ¨ a giant wad of bubble gum thats evil¨

Because that's exactly what happened, judging something based on two brainless creatures fighting is retarded. He might see two stray dogs fighting and call the mortals evil. Did he even took his sweet time to see two people with intellect fight or seeing Kid Boo/Freeza destroying stuff in Universe 7, atleast this way it would make sense instead of judging things by two Barbarians fighting and losing to a mortal then stealing his body instead of asking other very important questions to Zuno.

I'm pretty sure that Zamasu mentions seeing the same thing happening on other planets countless times prior to ever seeing the barbarian. It wasn't just because of the barbarians that he decided to start killing ningen. It was a combination of preexisting dislike of mortals, meeting goku and the barbarians. All these factors iust eventually pushed Zamasu over the edge. So you basically are oversimplifying what really happened in that arc.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember Raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eye. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

[zarmack]

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember Raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eye. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

SSJ2 really was called SSJ Grade 5 when it was first shown back in the Cell arc.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember Raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eye. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

The word lazy is thrown around so much around the community. SS was literally Goku's hair spiked up and changed colour a lot more simple than Oozaru so surely people should be citing that SS lazy as well then right?
SSG was more than just a colour change, it refined base Goku. He got skinner, his hair lost those loose strands and he had a more pronounced front bang. SSGSS does what it says on the tin it's supposed to resemble SS, a colour change is a massive difference much more than lighting sparks.

The commercial success of the modern forms especially in SSGSS and UI speak for themselves really (and the majority of modern DB merchandise is aimed at the teenage/adult demographic so people can't even use the excuse of "kids like bright colours"), hell SSGSS still is the main mascot form of modern DB. Colour is massive difference moreso than something crazy like SS3 with all that wild hair yet that form remains unpopular & barely used in modern DB. It's also why SS4 Gogeta remains the most popular thing out of GT because it's a red SS4.

I also agree about SS2 for example we had years and years of debates whether or not Gohan was SS2 vs Dabura etc Whereas between SS-SSG-SSGSS-UI everyone knows what is up each form has a distinct difference that's why I think they decided to ditch SS2&3 for the movie (hopefully it's a permanent ditch) as the only Saiyan that has consistency in hair style with SS2 is Goku.

[majinwarman]

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember Raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eye. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

The word lazy is thrown around so much around the community. SS was literally Goku's hair spiked up and changed colour a lot more simple than Oozaru so surely people should be citing that SS lazy as well then right?
SSG was more than just a colour change, it refined base Goku. He got skinner, his hair lost those loose strands and he had a more pronounced front bang. SSGSS does what it says on the tin it's supposed to resemble SS, a colour change is a massive difference much more than lighting sparks.

The commercial success of the modern forms especially in SSGSS and UI speak for themselves really (and the majority of modern DB merchandise is aimed at the teenage/adult demographic so people can't even use the excuse of "kids like bright colours"), hell SSGSS still is the main mascot form of modern DB. Colour is massive difference moreso than something crazy like SS3 with all that wild hair yet that form remains unpopular & barely used in modern DB. It's also why SS4 Gogeta remains the most popular thing out of GT because it's a red SS4.

I also agree about SS2 for example we had years and years of debates whether or not Gohan was SS2 vs Dabura etc Whereas between SS-SSG-SSGSS-UI everyone knows what is up each form has a distinct difference that's why I think they decided to ditch SS2&3 for the movie (hopefully it's a permanent ditch) as the only Saiyan that has consistency in hair style with SS2 is Goku.

I don't think what you said is going to change the view that Super's transformations are lazy, color changes, and only for kids.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

I don't think what you said is going to change the view that Super's transformations are lazy, color changes, and only for kids.

Maybe not, but it does make people that say that seem like massive hypocrites. Also, I don't get how people missed the point of what the God transformations are supposed to represent. Take beerus for example. He is insanely strong, yet looks super skinny and scrawny. You see super saiyan god, its got the signature red hair to represent a new level of power, but also slims down Goku's body making him noticeably slimmer as a similarity to beerus. Its supposed to be simple. SSJ Blue Expands on this by having Blue Goku look just like Super Saiyan, just with Blue Hair to represent the use of God Ki. Blue Evolution also does this by basically being the Super Vegeta form we see him use in the cell saga just with the use of god ki. Imagine if they didn't change the hair color and just had to create more elaborate ways to make a Saiyans Hair look to show growth in power. It would get old much faster than the hair color thing would.

[PFM18]

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

The word lazy is thrown around so much around the community. SS was literally Goku's hair spiked up and changed colour a lot more simple than Oozaru so surely people should be citing that SS lazy as well then right?
SSG was more than just a colour change, it refined base Goku. He got skinner, his hair lost those loose strands and he had a more pronounced front bang. SSGSS does what it says on the tin it's supposed to resemble SS, a colour change is a massive difference much more than lighting sparks.

The commercial success of the modern forms especially in SSGSS and UI speak for themselves really (and the majority of modern DB merchandise is aimed at the teenage/adult demographic so people can't even use the excuse of "kids like bright colours"), hell SSGSS still is the main mascot form of modern DB. Colour is massive difference moreso than something crazy like SS3 with all that wild hair yet that form remains unpopular & barely used in modern DB. It's also why SS4 Gogeta remains the most popular thing out of GT because it's a red SS4.

I also agree about SS2 for example we had years and years of debates whether or not Gohan was SS2 vs Dabura etc Whereas between SS-SSG-SSGSS-UI everyone knows what is up each form has a distinct difference that's why I think they decided to ditch SS2&3 for the movie (hopefully it's a permanent ditch) as the only Saiyan that has consistency in hair style with SS2 is Goku.

I don't think what you said is going to change the view that Super's transformations are lazy, color changes, and only for kids.

It doesnt matter how untrue it is you aren't going to convince people otherwise. It's pretty evident at this point. People will complain about a color change but praise adding lightning sparks and making Goku look like Rapunzel.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

The word lazy is thrown around so much around the community. SS was literally Goku's hair spiked up and changed colour a lot more simple than Oozaru so surely people should be citing that SS lazy as well then right?
SSG was more than just a colour change, it refined base Goku. He got skinner, his hair lost those loose strands and he had a more pronounced front bang. SSGSS does what it says on the tin it's supposed to resemble SS, a colour change is a massive difference much more than lighting sparks.

The commercial success of the modern forms especially in SSGSS and UI speak for themselves really (and the majority of modern DB merchandise is aimed at the teenage/adult demographic so people can't even use the excuse of "kids like bright colors"), hell SSGSS still is the main mascot form of modern DB. Colour is a massive difference more than something crazy like SS3 with all that wild hair yet that form remains unpopular & barely used in modern DB. It's also why SS4 Gogeta remains the most popular thing out of GT because it's a red SS4.

I also agree about SS2 for example we had years and years of debates whether or not Gohan was SS2 vs Dabura etc Whereas between SS-SSG-SSGSS-UI everyone knows what is up each form has a distinct difference that's why I think they decided to ditch SS2&3 for the movie (hopefully it's a permanent ditch) as the only Saiyan that has consistency in hairstyle with SS2 is Goku.

I don't think what you said is going to change the view that Super's transformations are lazy, color changes, and only for kids.

It doesn't matter how untrue it is you aren't going to convince people otherwise. It's pretty evident at this point. People will complain about a color change but praise adding lightning sparks and making Goku look like Rapunzel.

I agree. I think the whole idea of a transformation being lazy is retarded because who really cares in the first place.

[majinwarman]

I don't think what you said is going to change the view that Super's transformations are lazy, color changes, and only for kids.

It doesn't matter how untrue it is you aren't going to convince people otherwise. It's pretty evident at this point. People will complain about a color change but praise adding lightning sparks and making Goku look like Rapunzel.

I agree. I think the whole idea of a transformation being lazy is retarded because who really cares in the first place.

I think if the transformations were animated better then no one will be complaining as much because it looks something worth watching.

[supersaiyanZero]

Still, it's not a LAZY RECOLOR. The lightning is there and hairstyle is different. I don't remember Raditz losing his eyebrows and having a different color eye. I mean you may see everything as same but all three transformations have differences, SS grade forms have spiky hair and buffed up body. Still way better than Ripping of Base and SS form and changing hair colors, as if a kid can't do it in MS Paint.

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

The word lazy is thrown around so much around the community. SS was literally Goku's hair spiked up and changed colour a lot more simple than Oozaru so surely people should be citing that SS lazy as well then right?
SSG was more than just a colour change, it refined base Goku. He got skinner, his hair lost those loose strands and he had a more pronounced front bang. SSGSS does what it says on the tin it's supposed to resemble SS, a colour change is a massive difference much more than lighting sparks.

The commercial success of the modern forms especially in SSGSS and UI speak for themselves really (and the majority of modern DB merchandise is aimed at the teenage/adult demographic so people can't even use the excuse of "kids like bright colours"), hell SSGSS still is the main mascot form of modern DB. Colour is massive difference moreso than something crazy like SS3 with all that wild hair yet that form remains unpopular & barely used in modern DB. It's also why SS4 Gogeta remains the most popular thing out of GT because it's a red SS4.

I also agree about SS2 for example we had years and years of debates whether or not Gohan was SS2 vs Dabura etc Whereas between SS-SSG-SSGSS-UI everyone knows what is up each form has a distinct difference that's why I think they decided to ditch SS2&3 for the movie (hopefully it's a permanent ditch) as the only Saiyan that has consistency in hair style with SS2 is Goku.

Really? Has this new generation accepted mediocrity so much that they are willing to defend it by trashing the original Ssj design? One of the most iconic forms in the franchise,that became a staple moving forward? Yes, it is simple, but it doesn't need to be "complicated" to be cool as hell and different enough from the base form that nobody would ever confuse the two.

Ssj2 you might have a point, but goddamn if ssj2 gohan didn't look way cooler than any version of Gohan that came before. (It also played a huge part in the story, but hey, who cares right?) Designs don't need to be overcomplicated to have an impact. SSGSS or whatver you call it is literally a recolor, and it's impact on the narrative is almost non existent.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

Although changing hair colors was not the best direction for the transformations, it's still a better direction than ¨Lets make the hair spikier and longer¨. At least the God transformations feel like new different transformations, rather than feeling like extensions of Super Saiyan. In all intents and purposes, SSJ 2 and 3 might as well be called SSJ Grade 5 and 6. Thats all they really are. Extensions of the Super Saiyan transformation. And while a pallet swap is bad, it's exponentially better than an extension of something we already had just based on the fact that its something new.

The word lazy is thrown around so much around the community. SS was literally Goku's hair spiked up and changed color a lot more simple than Oozaru so surely people should be citing that SS lazy as well then right?
SSG was more than just a color change, it refined base Goku. He got skinner, his hair lost those loose strands and he had a more pronounced front bang. SSGSS does what it says on the tin it's supposed to resemble SS, a color change is a massive difference much more than lighting sparks.

The commercial success of the modern forms especially in SSGSS and UI speak for themselves really (and the majority of modern DB merchandise is aimed at the teenage/adult demographic so people can't even use the excuse of "kids like bright colors"), hell SSGSS still is the main mascot form of modern DB. Colour is a massive difference more than something crazy like SS3 with all that wild hair yet that form remains unpopular & barely used in modern DB. It's also why SS4 Gogeta remains the most popular thing out of GT because it's a red SS4.

I also agree about SS2 for example we had years and years of debates whether or not Gohan was SS2 vs Dabura etc Whereas between SS-SSG-SSGSS-UI everyone knows what is up each form has a distinct difference that's why I think they decided to ditch SS2&3 for the movie (hopefully it's a permanent ditch) as the only Saiyan that has consistency in hairstyle with SS2 is Goku.

Really? Has this new generation accepted mediocrity so much that they are willing to defend it by trashing the original Ssj design? One of the most iconic forms in the franchise, that became a staple moving forward? Yes, it is simple, but it doesn't need to be "complicated" to be cool as hell and different enough from the base form that nobody would ever confuse the two.

Ssj2 you might have a point, but goddamn if ssj2 Gohan didn't look way cooler than any version of Gohan that came before. (It also played a huge part in the story, but hey, who cares right?) Designs don't need to be overcomplicated to have an impact. SSGSS or whatever you call it is literally a recolor, and its impact on the narrative is almost non-existent.

The fact that SSJ is iconic doesn't change the fact that its the same as SSJ Blue as just being a different color than base. And before you pull the "Well actually, its different because the hair is spikier so its completely different", that much of an insignificant change is laughable at best. The color change was kind of the only way to go unless they wanted to make the hair "Even longer and spikier". And although SSJ Blue might not have as much of an impact on the series, that not its point. And the orignal SSJ form wasnt meant to do that either, it was Toriyama making drawing Goku easier.

[ABED]

And the orignal SSJ form wasnt meant to do that either, it was Toriyama making drawing Goku easier.

That's VERY reductive. It's not the only reason. It's one, but it was definitely meant to have an impact on the show. And one thing that's getting lost in all this is that while SSJ was something of a recolor, it was the first. You guys seem to be forgetting the law of diminishing marginal returns. Every subsequent transformation, even if it's similar and a recolor like the very first one, means less and less.

[ekrolo2]

And the orignal SSJ form wasnt meant to do that either, it was Toriyama making drawing Goku easier.

That's VERY reductive. It's not the only reason. It's one, but it was definitely meant to have an impact on the show. And one thing that's getting lost in all this is that while SSJ was something of a recolor, it was the first. You guys seem to be forgetting the law of diminishing marginal returns. Every subsequent transformation, even if it's similar and a recolor like the very first one, means less and less.

If nerd culture subscribed to the law of diminishing returns, the vast, VAST majority of stuff partook in it would've died out years or even decades ago, not just DB.

[ABED]

And the orignal SSJ form wasnt meant to do that either, it was Toriyama making drawing Goku easier.

That's VERY reductive. It's not the only reason. It's one, but it was definitely meant to have an impact on the show. And one thing that's getting lost in all this is that while SSJ was something of a recolor, it was the first. You guys seem to be forgetting the law of diminishing marginal returns. Every subsequent transformation, even if it's similar and a recolor like the very first one, means less and less.

If nerd culture subscribed to the law of diminishing returns, the vast, VAST majority of stuff partook in it would've died out years or even decades ago, not just DB.

I don't follow