Freeza is a good character now?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Regular
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Freeza is a good character now?

Postby JohnnyCashKami » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Seems so, he's sort of friends with Goku and no longer the villain he once was but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.

Another Modern DB story change that doesn't go along with Classic DB.

User avatar
Mewzard
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1991
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Mewzard » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:14 pm

...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
RIDER KIIIIIIICK!

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Regular
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby JohnnyCashKami » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:26 pm

Mewzard wrote:...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.


He appeared to team up with Freeza on Super. Freeza looks as though it's the only 'villain' that TOEI/Toriyama ever use now for everything, or an unoriginal, bland and classless visually intriguing character, i.e. Jiren.

Not sure calling straight out Freeza as a villain is the right thing but an anti-hero instead from how things are nowadays on the franchise. And yes, I've seen the 2nd trailer of DBS Movie 1 but still feels like he's been changed from the evil monster he once was.

/imo

User avatar
SupremeKai25
Regular
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby SupremeKai25 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:41 pm

Freeza is still very much evil, don't be mistaken. He literally states upon his resurrection that he does not intend to stop his evil ways. And we all know what Freeza's evil ways are. He invades many cities, he enslaves their people, he doesn't care about anyone and just wants to continue his business based on slavery and death and retain his position as self-proclaimed Emperor of the Universe.

But, as much as I hate to admit that, It's also true that if Freeza hadn't helped in the Tournament, Jiren would have won. I suppose that this redeemed him in the eyes of everyone.

The thing is, Goku does not care about justice. He is not someone like Zamasu who is willing to go to extreme lengths to uphold justice. He literally tells Jiren that he is not a hero of justice. Therefore, I doubt that he truly cares about justice for the Saiyans and for all the other innocents who suffered at the hands of Freeza. Goku is not noble.

Freeza is still evil though. He might play the role of the anti-hero in the future, like in the Tournament, but he is still very morally evil.
My form is justice. And my form is the world. Worship me. Give praise unto me. Me, the beautiful, the sublime... Me, the invincible, the almighty and divine... All hail Zamasu.

zarmack
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:22 am

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby zarmack » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:52 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Mewzard wrote:...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.


He appeared to team up with Freeza on Super. Freeza looks as though it's the only 'villain' that TOEI/Toriyama ever use now for everything, or an unoriginal, bland and classless visually intriguing character, i.e. Jiren.

Not sure calling straight out Freeza as a villain is the right thing but an anti-hero instead from how things are nowadays on the franchise. And yes, I've seen the 2nd trailer of DBS Movie 1 but still feels like he's been changed from the evil monster he once was.

/imo


You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Freeza is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku for the ToP because he would get erased from existence if doesn't. Freeza is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team in the ToP out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated be self-interest (to be brought back to life and rule the universe again).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
"98% of Kanzenshuu-goers have not kissed a girl. If you're one of the 2% that has, copy and paste this into your signature."

When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

Kai>Z>Early DB>>DBS Anime>GT>>>>>>>>>>DBS Manga

DBFZ>Xenoverse 2>Super DBZ>Budokai 3>Tenkaichi 3

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5075
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Polyphase Avatron » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:15 pm

Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

kemuri07
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby kemuri07 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:27 pm

Is he a good guy? No.

Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.



sigh.

User avatar
Tian
Regular
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Tian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:27 pm

No. He's still a bad guy but only helps the Z gang when there's a benefit for him.
Last edited by Tian on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When Clustering Stars gather and unite, those new bonds will illuminate the road to the future! Become the path its light shines upon! Limit Over Accel Synchro! Light Of Evolution, Shooting Quasar Dragon!

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13777
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Hellspawn28 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:04 pm

He's still a bad guy. He is probably going to leave the Earth alone since he knows that he can't win against UI Goku and they have Beerus on their side.
PS4 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
MAL Profile: http://myanimelist.net/profile/Hellspawn28
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/GS27/

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2392
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Kunzait_83 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:18 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.


Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.

Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.

And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).

zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.


Fixed that for you. :P
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread

Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.


Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.


Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

Ssjcell
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:15 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Ssjcell » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:35 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:

Not gonna lie this makes me hate frieza

Toxin45
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Toxin45 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:41 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:He's still a bad guy. He is probably going to leave the Earth alone since he knows that he can't win against UI Goku and they have Beerus on their side.

You do know he will be in the Broly movie right? Also goku can't use ultra insitnct at will.

zarmack
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:22 am

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby zarmack » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:43 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.


Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.

Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.

And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).

zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.


Fixed that for you. :P


1. Goku and others actually started caring about the saiyan race after Vegeta's dying speech on Namek. That's when Goku started to embrace his racial pride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI

So your rant is debunked there :thumbup: .

Also, Goku seemed pretty interested in them some more after meeting Cabba in the Champa arc.

2. False analogy bro. Freeza is a Complete Monster, Vegeta (even at his worst) never was:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... DragonBall

Since he's a Psychopath, Freeza is written in a way to make him psychologically impossible to reform by any means, which was the point of his last moments on Namek and all of Revival of F. It would be just as stupid to expect Zamasu or Cell to become a good guy.
"98% of Kanzenshuu-goers have not kissed a girl. If you're one of the 2% that has, copy and paste this into your signature."

When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

Kai>Z>Early DB>>DBS Anime>GT>>>>>>>>>>DBS Manga

DBFZ>Xenoverse 2>Super DBZ>Budokai 3>Tenkaichi 3

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 19681
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Lord Beerus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:51 am

Freeza is still an evil asshole. He's just become much more cunning and far more tolerable of certain situations that he'd previously lose his cool over, if it can benefit him.

User avatar
Doctor.
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10365
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Doctor. » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:05 am

zarmack wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.


Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.

Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.

And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).

zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.


Fixed that for you. :P


1. Goku and others actually started caring about the saiyan race after Vegeta's dying speech on Namek. That's when Goku started to embrace his racial pride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI

So your rant is debunked there :thumbup: .

Also, Goku seemed pretty interested in them some more after meeting Cabba in the Champa arc.

2. False analogy bro. Freeza is a Complete Monster, Vegeta (even at his worst) never was:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... DragonBall

Since he's a Psychopath, Freeza is written in a way to make him psychologically impossible to reform by any means, which was the point of his last moments on Namek and all of Revival of F. It would be just as stupid to expect Zamasu or Cell to become a good guy.


Goku still thought the Saiyans were scumbags. Freeza brings up Kunzait's exact point, that the Saiyans were a bunch of ruthless thugs responsible for killing of innocents, Goku replies with "That's why we perished."

He felt proud of his heritage after Vegeta died but evidently he didn't care all that much about the Saiyans themselves.

User avatar
TheMikado
I Live Here
Posts: 4842
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:28 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby TheMikado » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:23 am

kemuri07 wrote:Is he a good guy? No.

Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.



sigh.


Lord Beerus wrote:Freeza is still an evil asshole. He's just become much more cunning and far more tolerable of certain situations that he'd previously lose his cool over, if it can benefit him.


All this means is that Frieza is the next:

Yamcha
Tien
Piccolo
Vegeta
Android 16
Majin Buu

... etc etc etc... This trope has kinda run it's course by now.

User avatar
Bebi Hatchiyack
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:27 am

Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:
Saiya-jin me, watashi ha kisama wo koroshimasu

kemuri07
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby kemuri07 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:45 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:

I hate this so much.

User avatar
Bebi Hatchiyack
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:57 am

kemuri07 wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:

I hate this so much.


You hate this because it's so true 8)
Saiya-jin me, watashi ha kisama wo koroshimasu

Kaiza_Toshiyuki
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:32 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Postby Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
kemuri07 wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:

I hate this so much.


You hate this because it's so true 8)


Frieza needs a Bulma not a Gohan :lol:


Return to “General Franchise Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Forte224, Google Adsense [Bot] and 40 guests