Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

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Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by coola » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:37 am

In one of topics, one of users said that Star Wars fans can be very whiny and annoying, with whole demand for George Lucas to release Original Trilogy on DVD/BD in unaltered version. Let me ask you all something, how would you feel, if DBZ was never released on DVD/BD, only Kai, and Toei/Toriyama say that Kai is "DBZ as it was intended to be" and it will be only version released on home market, only way to wattch original DBZ, would be by old vhsrips/laser disc bootlegs. Wouldnt fans be angry and kept writing petitions to get original DBZ released on DVD/BD?
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:46 am

I wish that would happen. Certain portions of Kai are out of print in Australia, I had to do most of my collecting via eBay. Meanwhile they have shitty Orange Box and Blu Ray releases of the original Z for days. I'm all for choice, but let Kai become the default product and have Z be the one you have to hunt for if you really want it (though in an ideal world, the Dragon Boxes would be the version of that readily available). It's already the only version I own and the only one I see myself ever having the time to sit through now. I'm even going through Buu Kai again to keep up with the All Systems Goku podcast.

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:51 am

Well, a lot of people don't mind the AR change on the DB and Z movies as per TOEI the 16x9 AR is the intended aspect ratio. So, I guess, you could say most would be fine with Kai being the definitive version of Z.

TOEI really cheapened out the Kikuchi score by using so many few BGMs for nearly over 100 episodes. I love Kai and Kikuchi's work but man, did TOEI fuck it up using constantly the same tracks over and over again.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:57 am

Dragon Ball Kai is not Dragon Ball Z. As such, I would be upset. I like Dragon Ball Z for the things that make it Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Z is not a story, it is a television series.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:48 am

I'll be the first person to go to bat to justify Kai and its significance to the franchise, especially regarding new fans and those wanting to watch in English. I love it to death.

That being said, under no circumstances should Kai become the ONLY version available. Z is incredibly important as a piece of pop culture and nerd history despite its flaws (and in some cases, because of them, like Bulma and the Crabs and the driving episode), and it's where the best music and the best Japanese voice acting is (and for many, the best voice acting for the franchise in any language). It also provided a great expansion to the franchise's story, even though most of the lore introduced has since become outdated. It's important to japanese anime fans, and it's important to anime fans across the entire rest of the world. In my opinion this is like saying the "One Film Cut" version of the Star Wars prequels should be the only version of Episodes I, II and III available.

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:02 am

I like Kai for giving me the option of a more condensed Z and I'm glad it exists.

But it could never replace Z for me. Even if I wasn't a fan of the old dub I'd still want Z to be available so I could watch a lot of the good filler. And there's also the fact that Kai can feel choppy in places with the editing, and the redrawn parts stick out like a sore thumb. And the placement of the Kikuchi score in Kai is waaaay more limited and repetitive than it is in Z, while the superior Yamamoto score is MIA for a large portion of the series. Then there's the Japanese performances which aren't as good in Kai as they were in Z.

Kai being an option is great because it's just that, an option. If it were to actually replace Z then Toei would be effectively pulling a George Lucas.

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:15 am

Kai and Z are very different experiences, both with a lot of value. However, for me personally, I consider the original DB+Z+GT run to be the definitive Dragon Ball experience, so if Kai had overrode Z, I would be rather sad.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:22 am

I'd feel pretty sad.

One of my favorite things about Z is the Kikuchi score and the Japanese voice acting. Honestly, I don't even mind some of the filler. I was always fond of the Goku and Piccolo driving episode.

As time goes by, I feel Kai is only really worth watching for the Funimation dub. It's rather depressing to see these excellent Japanese voice actors phoning it in. Hiromi Tsuru phoned it in real hard. And Ryo Horikawa no longer has that smooth voice he had in Z (sometimes I think of what Tomokazu Seki could do in the role)... They did step up their game for Super though.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:51 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:I'd feel pretty sad.

One of my favorite things about Z is the Kikuchi score and the Japanese voice acting. Honestly, I don't even mind some of the filler. I was always fond of the Goku and Piccolo driving episode.

As time goes by, I feel Kai is only really worth watching for the Funimation dub. It's rather depressing to see these excellent Japanese voice actors phoning it in. Hiromi Tsuru phoned it in real hard. And Ryo Horikawa no longer has that smooth voice he had in Z (sometimes I think of what Tomokazu Seki could do in the role)... They did step up their game for Super though.
I think people overstate how the Japanese VAs' performances are in Kai compared to Z. In particular, I think while Horikawa's voice is definitely a lot less smooth than it was... He's old, and didn't he used to smoke? So, of course he'll sound a bit off 20 years later...
Ryusei Nakao utterly slays in Kai from what I remember, though. :)

The performances in Kai are often different, though. And of course, some of the original cast are no longer with us, and had to be replaced for the Kai version, which is definitely a loss you feel while watching, so... There is definitely something to be said for the originals.

And damn, yeah, I forgot to mention Kikuchi... Though tbh, given the mess it's in, I elected not to touch on Kai's scoring troubles... :lol:
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:27 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:I'd feel pretty sad.

One of my favorite things about Z is the Kikuchi score and the Japanese voice acting. Honestly, I don't even mind some of the filler. I was always fond of the Goku and Piccolo driving episode.

As time goes by, I feel Kai is only really worth watching for the Funimation dub. It's rather depressing to see these excellent Japanese voice actors phoning it in. Hiromi Tsuru phoned it in real hard. And Ryo Horikawa no longer has that smooth voice he had in Z (sometimes I think of what Tomokazu Seki could do in the role)... They did step up their game for Super though.
I think people overstate how the Japanese VAs' performances are in Kai compared to Z. In particular, I think while Horikawa's voice is definitely a lot less smooth than it was... He's old, and didn't he used to smoke? So, of course he'll sound a bit off 20 years later...
Ryusei Nakao utterly slays in Kai from what I remember, though. :)

The performances in Kai are often different, though. And of course, some of the original cast are no longer with us, and had to be replaced for the Kai version, which is definitely a loss you feel while watching, so... There is definitely something to be said for the originals.

And damn, yeah, I forgot to mention Kikuchi... Though tbh, given the mess it's in, I elected not to touch on Kai's scoring troubles... :lol:
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:13 pm

coola wrote:In one of topics, one of users said that Star Wars fans can be very whiny and annoying, with whole demand for George Lucas to release Original Trilogy on DVD/BD in unaltered version.
Someone said that? Really? Grrrrr.... I'm holding back from what I want to say because I know it would be against the rules of the board.

Anyway, as to the question, I would be just as pissed as I am at there being no decent way to own the original versions of Star Wars. The inherent debate of quality between Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Kai is completely irrelevant in such an argument, as is anyone's claim to "original vision" nonsense. The product exists, and it should be preserved. And since, in this case, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Kai are explicitly different products, there's even less of a reason to justify one replacing the other (and since there's absolutely no legitimate reason for 2011, 2004, 1997, etc. versions of Star Wars to replace the original, that means we've gotten into negative number values of reasoning). Personally, it annoys me that we have the small number of changes to the Dragon Ball manga's original run that we do have for which there are no available options to own.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:21 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:He used to, but I'm not sure if he does now. If he did stop, then thank goodness, because smoking can apparently cause aortic dissection.
Anyone who's currently in voicework who smokes is in real trouble. On top of all the life-threatening awfulness of it, it utterly wrecks your voice, as Geddy Lee can attest to.
Horikawa strikes me as a smart guy, and his voice doesn't seem all that bad these days, so I would guess he's had the sense to drop it.
Gaffer Tape wrote:Someone said that? Really? Grrrrr.... I'm holding back from what I want to say because I know it would be against the rules of the board.

Anyway, as to the question, I would be just as pissed as I am at there being no decent way to own the original versions of Star Wars. The inherent debate of quality between Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Kai is completely irrelevant in such an argument, as is anyone's claim to "original vision" nonsense. The product exists, and it should be preserved. And since, in this case, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Kai are explicitly different products, there's even less of a reason to justify one replacing the other (and since there's absolutely no legitimate reason for 2011, 2004, 1997, etc. versions of Star Wars to replace the original, that means we've gotten into negative number values of reasoning). Personally, it annoys me that we have the small number of changes to the Dragon Ball manga's original run that we do have for which there are no available options to own.
Indeed.
Honestly, for Star Wars, I would be perfectly happy if we had the choice between the original and 1997 versions; '97 is a good, if dated visually, alternative "Director's cut" version of Star Wars, and while I consider the original to be the superior film, it would be nice to have both versions available to watch. 2004 and 2011 IMO destroy the picture quality and were only worse compared to the '97 version, and overall the fact we can't watch the original version kind of wrecks the entire thing, unfortunately.

You are right, though; Kai and Z are rather different, so really, the Star Wars comparison is arguably not all that apt.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Nokra » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:51 pm

I wouldn't care. Dbz isn't that great when it comes to a lot of things, pacing being the biggest issue. For me, I only care about it due to nostalgia. Kai is the superior and definitive version without a doubt so I'd be perfectly content with it being the only version available.

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:57 pm

Nokra wrote:I wouldn't care. Dbz isn't that great when it comes to a lot of things, pacing being the biggest issue. For me, I only care about it due to nostalgia. Kai is the superior and definitive version without a doubt so I'd be perfectly content with it being the only version available.
Superior how? The soundtrack by Yamamoto, Japanese VA, foreign dubs, the HD remaster?

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:04 pm

I feel like the closest we got to this Star Wars comparison is what Funimation did to their original broadcast/home video dub with their uncut remastered dub where they redubbed season 1 and 2 with their cast and then for s3 and beyond had some of the actors rerecord their lines and outright replacing some of their own in-house actors with new ones (like Dende). And the attempt to make a better definitive version was even worse than the original product

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by ABED » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:09 pm

I don't like fewer options.
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Nokra » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:19 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Nokra wrote:I wouldn't care. Dbz isn't that great when it comes to a lot of things, pacing being the biggest issue. For me, I only care about it due to nostalgia. Kai is the superior and definitive version without a doubt so I'd be perfectly content with it being the only version available.
Superior how? The soundtrack by Yamamoto, Japanese VA, foreign dubs, the HD remaster?
Yeah, everything except the soundtrack is superior although the buu saga portion of kai has a slightly better soundtrack.

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by coola » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:09 pm

Personally,i thought most of replacemnet actors were nowhere near as good as originals (Especially Ginyu Force) and i was not big fan of Horikawa Vegeta, but worse one was probably Norio Wakamato Cell, especailly 1st form :( If i watch Kai (Only up to Cell Saga) it is with English dub :)
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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by Ssjcell » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 pm

I wouldn't like it very much

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Re: Kai as only version of Z available - How would you feel?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:26 pm

coola wrote:English dub :)
FUNimation or Ocean Dub? Joke. :P

I'm really hoping the Ocean Kai dub won't take too long now to air on a CDN TV channel. I want to watch that English dub so much.

If it wasn't for Clinkenbeard on the FUNimation Kai dub, I'd probably love it.

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