Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

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MasenkoHA
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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:51 pm

Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.

Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by ABED » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:00 pm

This exchange about the revival is a thread of its own.
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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.
DBE was such a non-entity that most people forgot it even existed as soon as it left theaters. No "mouth wash" required. Outside of Toriyama himself (and for very understandable reasons), DBE had ultimately left all of ZERO impact on either the DB fanbase or wider culture in the wake of its release. Acting as if it was some mass trauma to the psyche of the fanbase (ala something like Batman & Robin was to Batman and to superhero fandom) is simply giving it undue credit it doesn't deserve even as a terrible movie, because its not even MEMORABLY terrible. Its just cinematic dust vapor.

If not for Toriyama's (again, understandable given the circumstances that went on behind the scenes) reaction and the revival that it helped directly lead to, none of us would still be talking about or mentioning DBE in conversations like this, much less even recalling that it ever happened much of the time.
MasenkoHA wrote:Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run
Yep. My point exactly. And yet so many fans in recent years will often act as if we were all left positively hanging and absolutely in desperate need of more. That whole mindset is just ridiculously stupid and lacking utterly in any sense of perspective of self-awareness.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:28 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.

Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run
Jeez. DBE came out in 2009, that's nine years ago already. Get over it and stop pretending like it traumatized you as if you were an abused victim. Christ, for fuck sakes.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:35 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.

Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run
Jeez. DBE came out in 2009, that's nine years ago already. Get over it and stop pretending like it traumatized you as if you were an abused victim. Christ, for fuck sakes.
Holy shit I made a pretty passive comment about thinking Dragon Ball Evolution was bad.

Do you overreact to everything?

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.
DBE was such a non-entity that most people forgot it even existed as soon as it left theaters. No "mouth wash" required. Outside of Toriyama himself (and for very understandable reasons), DBE had ultimately left all of ZERO impact on either the DB fanbase or wider culture in the wake of its release. Acting as if it was some mass trauma to the psyche of the fanbase (ala something like Batman & Robin was to Batman and to superhero fandom) is simply giving it undue credit it doesn't deserve even as a terrible movie, because its not even MEMORABLY terrible. Its just cinematic dust vapor.
Sounds a lot like the Ratchet & Clank movie; pretty awful, but ultimately it didn't have a lasting impact on the franchise (although that was helped by the PS4 game being a return to form).
Kunzait_83 wrote:If not for Toriyama's (again, understandable given the circumstances that went on behind the scenes) reaction and the revival that it helped directly lead to, none of us would still be talking about or mentioning DBE in conversations like this, much less even recalling that it ever happened much of the time.
I thought the movie was already a fair way into pre-production before Toriyama got involved with it? If that's the case Dragon Ball would most likely have kept going after that if the movie made money, and we'd be in the same place we are now (give or take reactions to that whole evil virus affecting the Saiyans thing, which IMO is worse than S-Cells).

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Dbzk1999 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:16 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.

Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run
Jeez. DBE came out in 2009, that's nine years ago already. Get over it and stop pretending like it traumatized you as if you were an abused victim. Christ, for fuck sakes.
Why does it matter to you that much how they feel?

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:17 am

Dbzk1999 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.

Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run
Jeez. DBE came out in 2009, that's nine years ago already. Get over it and stop pretending like it traumatized you as if you were an abused victim. Christ, for fuck sakes.
Why does it matter to you that much how they feel?
They? It's a single person, not multiple.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:17 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:Personally I thought Battle of the Gods was a nice little surprise. Some mouth wash to wash out the bad taste of DBE. Then it kept going and going.

Dragon Ball Z the most popular entity of the Dragon Ball franchise had 291 episodes and 13 movies prior to the revival. That was plenty of material. It’s not like some show that was cancelled after a short run
Jeez. DBE came out in 2009, that's nine years ago already. Get over it and stop pretending like it traumatized you as if you were an abused victim. Christ, for fuck sakes.
Holy shit I made a pretty passive comment about thinking Dragon Ball Evolution was bad.

Do you overreact to everything?
That's ironic. You're the one overreacting over a movie done almost 10 years ago.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Dbzk1999 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:31 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Dbzk1999 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote: Jeez. DBE came out in 2009, that's nine years ago already. Get over it and stop pretending like it traumatized you as if you were an abused victim. Christ, for fuck sakes.
Why does it matter to you that much how they feel?
They? It's a single person, not multiple.
You are aware that “they” can be used as a singular term right?

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:44 am

I just appreciate that I made a pretty mild comment about Dragon Ball Evolution leaving a bad taste in fan’s mouths and he flips his lid. Like, I didn’t even make a rant about it

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:23 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:If not for Toriyama's (again, understandable given the circumstances that went on behind the scenes) reaction and the revival that it helped directly lead to, none of us would still be talking about or mentioning DBE in conversations like this, much less even recalling that it ever happened much of the time.
Toei were already working on Battle Of Gods when Toriyama agreed to start doing Dragon Ball again.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:00 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:If not for Toriyama's (again, understandable given the circumstances that went on behind the scenes) reaction and the revival that it helped directly lead to, none of us would still be talking about or mentioning DBE in conversations like this, much less even recalling that it ever happened much of the time.
Toei were already working on Battle Of Gods when Toriyama agreed to start doing Dragon Ball again.
Ah I was mistaken. I always heard Toriyama did Battle of the Gods specifically in response to Dragon Ball Evolution. Guess it was more fandom half truth

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:16 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:If not for Toriyama's (again, understandable given the circumstances that went on behind the scenes) reaction and the revival that it helped directly lead to, none of us would still be talking about or mentioning DBE in conversations like this, much less even recalling that it ever happened much of the time.
Toei were already working on Battle Of Gods when Toriyama agreed to start doing Dragon Ball again.
Ah I was mistaken. I always heard Toriyama did Battle of the Gods specifically in response to Dragon Ball Evolution. Guess it was more fandom half truth
Revisionist history that arguably tells a better story should be the motto of the English Dragon Ball fandom. :lol:
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:48 am

Did you people listen to Goku Black's voice in the sub? So full of sadism, cruelty and madness. And yet also so calm and composed, a perfect voice for this ominous villain. Literally no one cares that this badass evil dude is voiced by an old lady so long as the voice actor does a great job, which Nozawa did with Black, since I have only seen praise for her brilliant performance as Goku Black.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:19 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:Did you people listen to Goku Black's voice in the sub? So full of sadism, cruelty and madness. And yet also so calm and composed, a perfect voice for this ominous villain. Literally no one cares that this badass evil dude is voiced by an old lady so long as the voice actor does a great job, which Nozawa did with Black, since I have only seen praise for her brilliant performance as Goku Black.
Indeed.

If the person mattered, then people would probably be pretty sceptical of, say, Scott McNeil as Piccolo, with the character being an ex-demon badass, and the man being one of the biggest goofballs on the planet.
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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:54 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:Literally no one cares that this badass evil dude is voiced by an old lady so long as the voice actor does a great job, which Nozawa did with Black, since I have only seen praise for her brilliant performance as Goku Black.
A sentiment that I honestly don't understand. Why do so many of the same people that hate her as normal Goku love her as Goku Black? Yeah, she voices him differently, but it's still her voicing a version of Goku.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:00 pm

Majin Buu wrote:A sentiment that I honestly don't understand. Why do so many of the same people that hate her as normal Goku love her as Goku Black? Yeah, she voices him differently, but it's still her voicing a version of Goku.
If I had to guess/project, it's because they were (forced to start) watching it exclusively in Japanese. No other version existed to imprint in their mind as "the performance" for the character. They were actually listening and paying attention to the sole existing performance, rather than being in a constant state of comparison.
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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:22 pm

Majin Buu wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:Literally no one cares that this badass evil dude is voiced by an old lady so long as the voice actor does a great job, which Nozawa did with Black, since I have only seen praise for her brilliant performance as Goku Black.
A sentiment that I honestly don't understand. Why do so many of the same people that hate her as normal Goku love her as Goku Black? Yeah, she voices him differently, but it's still her voicing a version of Goku.
Goku's voice in the sub is very cheerful and high-pitched (except when he gets serious), but Black's voice is very soft and eerie. I guess that's why people find it so cool.

Personally I prefer sub Goku Black because he sounds so ominous. I don't hate Sean at all but his Goku Black just sounds aggressive, whereas Nozawa's Goku Black sounds much more mysterious and malevolent.

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Re: Why hire an old lady when you can get a dude?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:09 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Majin Buu wrote:A sentiment that I honestly don't understand. Why do so many of the same people that hate her as normal Goku love her as Goku Black? Yeah, she voices him differently, but it's still her voicing a version of Goku.
If I had to guess/project, it's because they were (forced to start) watching it exclusively in Japanese. No other version existed to imprint in their mind as "the performance" for the character. They were actually listening and paying attention to the sole existing performance, rather than being in a constant state of comparison.
Lets not also forget that with Super they're actually watching the Japanese performances through whole episodes at a time, rather than just spot checking youtube clips in brief snippets.

Evidently from what I've gathered, there's a whole contingent of dub fans throughout the past decade or so who have primarily just been watching DBZ via favorite isolated clips on youtube rather than via whole entire episodes at a stretch. This apparently had also done a lot to help skew their perspective on the series, since they're continuously gorging themselves only on contextless moments they love most from the dub, while comparing those (defensively) against the Japanese version via similarly clipped snippets; as opposed to actually sitting back and trying to actively engage with the series (in either version) via actually watching straight through a whole arc or what have you.
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Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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