Who are the best written couple in DB?

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:07 pm

I mean she's a flirt, so her flirting with him isn't special or a connection. She'll do it at the drop of a hat.
It wasn’t the best but no it didn’t come from nowhere.
Yeah it did. Why her? Is it because she's convenient? Why do they connect? It's never shown.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by zarmack » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:09 pm

Izanagi wrote:
zarmack wrote:I made a common sense assumption based on your opinions about these relationships. Hardly an ad hominem since I made no value judgements about you.
Alright, fair enough.
You didn't address my rebuttals to your complaints about Bulma.
I didn't address anything, because I already said what I had to say. Characters flaws are not flaws unless the narratives acknowledges them as such. That's why Vegeta by virtue is a flawed character, because Vegeta's arrogance has always been proven to be his undoing time and again, leading him to losing many of his fights, including losing his own life as well as his son's on one occasion. In the case with Bulma, her flaws such as being a narcissistic hypocritical loudmouth goes unaddressed by the narratives and is brushed off as comic relief.
How a (potential) couple interacts on a regular basis is what makes them great or bad. Neither VegeBul nor GoChi would be as popular if they are for over 2 decades if they were really that awful (especially for a non-romantic series like DB).
Appeal to popularity fallacy. A couple having a lot of popularity or followers means nothing and is not a reflective of a couple's quality in the terms of the narratives. Sasuke Uchiha and Sakura Haruno from Naruto for instance are by far the most popular hetero pairing of their series and they're anything but well-written, which debunks the whole “popularity equates to good writing” argument.
Rape and abortion are by no means excluded topics in Shonen and Shojo anime/manga (there are many series in those demographics that feature these things) . Japan has different standards for what is acceptable in children's media. You also ignored my rebuttal to your last argument: If Toriyama intended Vegeta to have zero interest in sex and romance then he would have never made VegeBul a reality at all, like how Tien x Lunch never became a reality despite the latter's canon attraction to the former. And even if he did, people change their interests and lifestyles all the time in real life.
I didn't ignore anything, I was responding to your original post before it got edited and Doctor already beat it to you why Toriyama made Vegeta and Bulma a thing -- Toriyama doesn't include romance in the story because he likes it or he's making some statement, he includes it because it's practical to continue the story, Vegeta and Bulma existed solely because Toriyama wanted more Saiyan characters in the ensemble cast, but all of them bar Goku and Vegeta were wiped out. It's that simple, really.

Never said rape and abortions are obscure topics in shonen manga, but Dragon Ball (and by association, Akira Toriyama) is not the type of series that tackles upon any obscure topics and is trying to sell you a moral, it does what it's best at doing and that is to provide entertainment. If Dragon Ball started changing the thematics to a psychological/thriller structure, actually dedicating volumes to give his readers an introspection of the characters' psyche, then this series doesn't "feel" like Dragon Ball anymore.
1. A character flaw is still a character flaw regardless if the story addresses it or not, because the author obviously intended his characters to have them. You failed to prove why this isn't the case. And Vegeta is arrogant in all of his fights (and general activities) regardless if the consequences are good or bad for him, so that debunks that argument. Toriyama is not a moralistic writer, so he's obviously not trying to preach a message with his character's flaws (especially Goku's).

2. Naruto X Hinata is the most popular hetero in Naruto, not Sasuke x Sakura (which isn't even close since Sakura herself is a mostly hated character). So that's a false analogy.

3. Earlier you claimed that Nappa would go on a rape fest and Vegeta shot that down. Now you're contradicting your own argument by admitting Toriyama would never imply that?

Also, you are argued that Vegeta had zero interest in women prior to meeting Bulma, but if that was the case then Toriyama would have never bothered to pair those 2 up at all (characterization was at least 1 thing Toriyama was consistent with when writing the original manga). VegeBul didn't even need to exist for the Android arc to happen, Future Gohan could have been the one to show up. That's my argument that you failed to address.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by Izanagi » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:24 pm

zarmack wrote: A character flaw is still a character flaw regardless if the story addresses it or not, because the author obviously intended his characters to have them. You failed to prove why this isn't the case. And Vegeta is arrogant in all of his fights (and general activities) regardless if the consequences are good or bad for him, so that debunks that argument. Toriyama is not a moralistic writer, so he's obviously not trying to preach a message with his character's flaws (especially Goku's).
Toriyama's intention means nothing, because character flaws and virtues need to fulfill a narrative purpose and be directly responsible for the characters' successes and failures, so essentially Bulma just has flaws for the sake of having flaws (and comic relief purposes). Likewise your own argument is falling flat on its face because Vegeta starts out with a flaw and a desire, goes on a journey to obtain the object of his desire, and during this journey he meet with trials. In the end, Vegeta fails not because he necessarily is less powerful than Goku and the villains he's confronting, but because he is unable to fix his flaws and it led him to his downfall (pride and arrogance). Only upon emerging from the trials as a better person and fixing his flaws in Battle of Gods, does Vegeta finally accomplish his objective. That's basic writing 101, you don't need to be a moralistic writer to know if a character doesn't fix their flaws, they're becoming stagnant as a result.
Naruto X Hinata is the most popular hetero in Naruto, not Sasuke x Sakura (which isn't even close since Sakura herself is a mostly hated character). So that's a false analogy.
Seeing as Sakura is fairing well in popularity polls and Sasuke x Sakura are immensely popular being the most popular hetero pairing and supported by the author, the seiyuu and the fandom, no, I clearly know what I am talking about. Don't lump the vocal minorities who hates her with the silent majority. The amount of dojinshis and artwork they got when they ended up together was wild, that's not even mentioning the fact that they always won popularity poll for favorite couple and how Hinata's most popular pairing wasn't always with Naruto, it was with Neji until she got together with the former then Naruto x Hinata's popularity skyrocketed. Once again, popularity does not equate to quality.
Earlier you claimed that Nappa would go on a rape fest and Vegeta shot that down. Now you're contradicting your own argument by admitting Toriyama would never imply that?
No, I did not admit that, I did not admit that at all, stop strawmanning me. Implied rape is just that, implied. However the topic only lasted for one panel and was afterwards never brought up again, that doesn't necessarily mean Toriyama is tackling subjects such as rape.
Also, you are argued that Vegeta had zero interest in women prior to meeting Bulma, but if that was the case then Toriyama would have never bothered to pair those 2 up at all (characterization was at least 1 thing Toriyama was consistent with when writing the original manga). VegeBul didn't even need to exist for the Android arc to happen, Future Gohan could have been the one to show up. That's my argument that you failed to address.
Zarmack, I am starting to think you got selective reading and only want to read what you want to read, so I am just going to reply to this one final time as I am growing tired of this back-and-forth discussion which honestly leads to nowhere; as both Doctor and I addressed, Toriyama paired Vegeta and Bulma together to introduce more Saiyan characters into the ensemble cast and because he wanted to write a story about time traveling. He didn't pair Bulma up with Vegeta because he thought it'd give the character some meaningful development intially (granted, I do admit Vegeta got some nice development later on in the story), that was not in his authorial intent. She was just a plot device, because this series was essentially a sausage-fest, so female characters were virtually non-existant. I mean, who else should Toriyama pair Vegeta up with to create Trunks? Chichi? That's just wrong. Lunch? As if Toriyama remembers her at this point. Mai? He only started to remember her when he re-read the manga during the production of Battle of Gods.
Last edited by Izanagi on Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by Kinokima » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:25 pm

ABED wrote:I mean she's a flirt, so her flirting with him isn't special or a connection. She'll do it at the drop of a hat.
You keep saying there is no connection but her flirting IS a connection. She also calls him Vegeta-Kun at this point. Why not her? They were living together and one thing lead to another.

I am pretty sure Vegeta wasn’t going around actively seeking a woman to have sex with at this point but if she came to him. And you keep acting like flirting is all
She does and it’s not possible to imagine she may take it a step forward with Vegeta if she found him attractive. Bulma is certainly pretty good looking too.

Again they didn’t fall in love at this point. So no where did I say they formed a deep connection but there was something hinted there you just are ignoring it.

As for a connection it was formed over time. I would have loved to see what happened in those 7 years but personally I don’t neee to because I do understand it.
Yeah it did. Why her? Is it because she's convenient? Why do they connect? It's never shown.
I mean no one is saying Vegeta & Bulma weren’t put together to specifically create Trunks but if Toriyama really wanted to he could of had another Saiyan show up from off world and hook up with Bulma. I think he did think it through that it would be Vegeta & Bulma more than people realize. I do find Vegeta & Bulma to be very similar characters (once Vegeta is no longer evil).


Why do they connect? Maybe you do not understand love forming over time. Some people fall in and out of love quickly. For some people love forms much slower (especially for someone like Vegeta who never loved anyone before). Vegeta and Bulma also have a child together so that is a connection.

When Vegeta didn’t care about Trunks, Bulma wasn’t living with him. But in the end he did grow fond of Trunks and stayed with his family.

Bulma and Vegeta didn’t start out as love but it became that from time living together. Future Bulma said Vegeta has a heart but was too proud to show it. In the end that heart did come out. Would I have thought it better if the “falling in love” was shown. Yes but for me what was shown in Z was enough to understand what happened. And now I can clearly see Bulma and Vegeta’s love (even if Vegeta is still very Tsundere about it all) so lack of what was shown in Z is not an issue for me anymore.
Last edited by Kinokima on Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Flirting isn't a connection. Girls in my high school flirted with lots of people, including me. That wasn't a connection. It's them being playful and amusing themselves.

The question of the thread question is "who are the best written couple?" The essence of good writing to me is several things - setup, complication, payoff, and is it compelling? Do I want to turn the page or watch the next episode? Development not being shown hinders that. A writing maxim is "show, don't tell". Clearly writers can't show us everything, but Toriyama didn't show us anything.
Last edited by ABED on Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by Kinokima » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:54 pm

ABED wrote:It's quite a leap from "why did they connect?" to not understanding that love can form over time. I understand the latter, I just don't see the former from them.
Because we see it after Final Atonement. That’s the point. And really showing that Vegeta truly loved Bulma and Trunks before that moment would have ruined it. It is not the same as Piccolo & Gohan because you also have to buy Vegeta turning Majin. If it was made clear he loved his family before this then both his betrayal and the final redemption would not have worked story wise. The betrayal is what you expect from Vegeta only his words “I even have a family and found Earth a nice place to live” says a bit more of what his ultimate decision would be .
Flirting isn't a connection. Girls in my high school flirted with lots of people, including me. That wasn't a connection. It's them being playful and amusing themselves.
Except it is a connection when we are going from flirting to casual sex not falling in love which is what I am talking about here. The anime also has a few more scenes between them too.


The question of the thread question is "who are the best written couple?" Living together and falling in love is understandable, but that's not great writing if you don't see anything. Stories are meant to be felt, not just understood.
Except we do see the after effect of Vegeta & Bulma at the EOZ where they now have a daughter. We see them together in GT, in the Dragon Ball special and now beyond in the movies and Super.

If we are saying best written set up then it is definitely Gohan & Videl for me (the only one with good development) but a couple continues beyond that and Vegeta & Bulma did. So we do see them as a couple just not before Final Atonement because it’s meant to be the first moment we learn Vegeta loves his family.

Before that we do know they have been living together for 7 years. I mean nothing in that period is shown.
I didn't say you did say the formed a deep connection. There isn't a deep connection then, but there's also no connection. We don't SEE anything from them. And no there weren't hints. A flirty girl isn't a hint.
Yes Bulma flirting with Vegeta is a hint & foreshadowing to what is to come. It’s meant to be a surprise when Trunks announces it though so they weren’t trying to give it away.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:03 pm

It's not foreshadowing when she flirts with anyone at the drop of a hat. What makes Vegeta so different? Why him and not Yamcha?
Except it is a connection when we are going from flirting to casual sex not falling in love which is what I am talking about here.
We don't see it turn to that. It's talked about after the fact and before when Trunks tells Goku. There's no moment between Vegeta and Bulma.
a couple continues beyond that and Vegeta & Bulma did.
We see him give his life, but we never see them interact before hand. The true power of that moment comes from his interactions with Trunks. We SEE him connect when he hugs his son for the first time. Bulma is merely mentioned. Remember 'show, don't tell."
It’s meant to be a surprise when Trunks announces it though so they weren’t trying to give it away.
I get that it's supposed to be a surprise when Trunks says it, but there's ZERO follow up.

If every single moment between them has to be kept secret from the audience with no hints or foreshadowing in order to preserve some plot twist, it's probably not a great twist. For something to be a truly great twist, you have to play fair with the audience. I understand not wanting to telegraph an important moment, but trick is to not make the set up obvious, not do away with it altogether. Vegeta's connection to Trunks is shown.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by Kinokima » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:19 pm

ABED wrote:It's not foreshadowing when she flirts with anyone at the drop of a hat. What makes Vegeta so different? Why him and not Yamcha?
You are mixing it up making something obvious with a hint. This was a hint on hindsight of what was to come.

Yeah she flirts with a lot of guys and they don’t all give her the time of day. Vegeta in the end happened to.

Toriyama said Yamcha cheated on her. He still sticks to that even though a lot of fans don’t believe it. Maybe that was a lazy excuse to break them up but well he still sticks to it.
We don't see it turn to that. It's talked about after the fact and before when Trunks tells Goku. There's no moment between Vegeta and Bulma.
I mean Toriyama outright states romance embarrassed him so that is why you didn’t see it.

But the anime does at least add things. You have the shower scene, Bulma taking care of an injured Vegeta, Vegeta saying Bulma has guts, etc.
The true power of that moment comes from his interactions with Trunks. Bulma is mentioned. Remember 'show, don't tell."
Yes because Trunks is the only one there but in the end it’s ultimately about the love he has for his family and that is both Bulma & Trunks.

If every single moment between them has to be kept secret from the audience in order to preserve some plot twist, it's probably not a great twist.
And after that Vegeta & Bulma do have interaction and moments. To the point that people complain they have too much now lol.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:25 pm

You are mixing it up making something obvious with a hint. This was a hint on hindsight of what was to come.
It's not a hint when it's done at a drop of a hat. I'm not asking for telegraphing. It's not even like it was a twist when Bulma reveals who her babydaddy is. Trunks tells them. So it's not a surprise to the audience, so there's no reason to not show some connection. A flirt from someone who always flirts isn't a connection.
I mean Toriyama outright states romance embarrassed him so that is why you didn’t see it.
And yet we get genuine moments between other couples. This thread is what is the best written couple. Bringing up Toriyama's aversion to writing romance isn't helping your case.

The aformentioned moment between Vegeta and Trunks isn't the only moment between them. That and scenes like them training in the gravity room and Vegeta realizing he went too far in hitting his son are moments. Stories are about moments we see and the emotions we feel. If we have is the knowledge that Vegeta has a family, but we don't see them connect, there's no power in him giving his life.

When did we SEE anything like that between Vegeta and Bulma?
Last edited by ABED on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by Kinokima » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:33 pm

ABED wrote:
You are mixing it up making something obvious with a hint. This was a hint on hindsight of what was to come.
It's not a hint when it's done at a drop of a hat. I'm not asking for telegraphing. It's not even like it was a twist when Bulma reveals who her babydaddy is. Trunks tells them. So it's not a surprise to the audience, so there's no reason to not show some connection. A flirt from someone who always flirts isn't a connection.
Yes Bulma flirting with Vegeta is a connection. Clearly it’s it’s not enough for you but in the end it’s them interacting. And this flirting lead to something happening between them.

And yet we get genuine moments between other couples. This thread is what is the best written couple. Bringing up Toriyama's aversion to writing romance isn't helping your case.
And we get genuine moments between Vegeta and Bulma too after Final Atonement. But you aren’t helping your case either arguing about best pairings when you are ignoring stuff just because you haven’t watched anything beyond Z.
Last edited by Kinokima on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Kinokima wrote:
ABED wrote:
You are mixing it up making something obvious with a hint. This was a hint on hindsight of what was to come.
It's not a hint when it's done at a drop of a hat. I'm not asking for telegraphing. It's not even like it was a twist when Bulma reveals who her babydaddy is. Trunks tells them. So it's not a surprise to the audience, so there's no reason to not show some connection. A flirt from someone who always flirts isn't a connection.
Yes Bulma flirting with Vegeta is a connection. Clearly it’s it’s not enough for you but in the end it’s them interacting. And this flirting lead to something happening between them.
How is it a connection? She also flirted with Porunga! If she didn't do it at the drop of a hat, you might have a point.

The flirting leads to something, but WHY? Why him and not one of the others she flirted with?
Last edited by ABED on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by zarmack » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:35 pm

Izanagi wrote:
zarmack wrote: A character flaw is still a character flaw regardless if the story addresses it or not, because the author obviously intended his characters to have them. You failed to prove why this isn't the case. And Vegeta is arrogant in all of his fights (and general activities) regardless if the consequences are good or bad for him, so that debunks that argument. Toriyama is not a moralistic writer, so he's obviously not trying to preach a message with his character's flaws (especially Goku's).
Toriyama's intention means nothing, because character flaws and virtues need to fulfill a narrative purpose and be directly responsible for the characters' successes and failures, so essentially Bulma just has flaws for the sake of having flaws (and comic relief purposes). Likewise your own argument is falling flat on its face because Vegeta starts out with a flaw and a desire, goes on a journey to obtain the object of his desire, and during this journey he meet with trials. In the end, Vegeta fails not because he necessarily is less powerful than Goku and the villains he's confronting, but because he is unable to fix his flaws and it led him to his downfall (pride and arrogance). Only upon emerging from the trials as a better person and fixing his flaws in Battle of Gods, does Vegeta finally accomplish his objective. That's basic writing 101, you don't need to be a moralistic writer to know if a character doesn't fix their flaws, they're becoming stagnant as a result.
Naruto X Hinata is the most popular hetero in Naruto, not Sasuke x Sakura (which isn't even close since Sakura herself is a mostly hated character). So that's a false analogy.
Seeing as Sakura is fairing well in popularity polls and Sasuke x Sakura are immensely popular being the most popular hetero pairing and supported by the author, the seiyuu and the fandom, no, I clearly know what I am talking about. Don't lump the vocal minorities who hates her with the silent majority. The amount of dojinshis and artwork they got when they ended up together was wild, that's not even mentioning the fact that they always won popularity poll for favorite couple and how Hinata's most popular pairing wasn't always with Naruto, it was with Neji until she got together with the former then Naruto x Hinata's popularity skyrocketed. Once again, popularity does not equate to quality.
Earlier you claimed that Nappa would go on a rape fest and Vegeta shot that down. Now you're contradicting your own argument by admitting Toriyama would never imply that?
No, I did not admit that, I did not admit that at all, stop strawmanning me. Implied rape is just that, implied. However the topic only lasted for one panel and was afterwards never brought up again, that doesn't necessarily mean Toriyama is tackling subjects such as rape.
Also, you are argued that Vegeta had zero interest in women prior to meeting Bulma, but if that was the case then Toriyama would have never bothered to pair those 2 up at all (characterization was at least 1 thing Toriyama was consistent with when writing the original manga). VegeBul didn't even need to exist for the Android arc to happen, Future Gohan could have been the one to show up. That's my argument that you failed to address.
Zarmack, I am starting to think you got selective reading and only want to read what you want to read, so I am just going to reply to this one final time as I am growing tired of this back-and-forth discussion which honestly leads to nowhere; as both Doctor and I addressed, Toriyama paired Vegeta and Bulma together to introduce more Saiyan characters into the ensemble cast and because he wanted to write a story about time traveling. He didn't pair Bulma up with Vegeta because he thought it'd give the character some meaningful development intially (granted, I do admit Vegeta got some nice development later on in the story), that was not in his authorial intent. She was just a plot device, because this series was essentially a sausage-fest, so female characters were virtually non-existant. I mean, who else should Toriyama pair Vegeta up with to create Trunks? Chichi? That's just wrong. Lunch? As if Toriyama remembers her at this point. Mai? He only started to remember her when he re-read the manga during the production of Battle of Gods.
1. Your Vegeta example still falls flat because being less power than Goku (or the main villain) IS the only actual reason why he ever loses a fight. In DB, power levels determine the outcome of a fight more than anything else. In nearly all of Vegeta's wins, he is just as prideful and arrogant as ever. A humble Vegeta wouldn't have done any better against Final Form Freeza on Namek, nor against A18 and Perfect Cell in the Android arc. So that debunks that. In fact, Vegeta's arrogance and pride is exactly what pushes him beyond his limits and helps him achieve his accomplishments because that what he naturally is. And yes, author intentions do matter.

Also, the idea that a character ought to fix their flaws in the story (which is an extremely unnatural and unrealistic assumption even in a fantasy story), IS moralistic thinking, which Toriyama is not about. What makes a character interesting or 3D is how many layers or traits of personality they have (whatever they are), not how a character "changes" over time. A character is not obliged to "change" their flaws in a story, especially if said flaws are inherent to their nature and therefore essential to them, and especially if said story has no moral message attached to their flaws.

2. Sakura haters are hardly a "loud minority", and the popularity of Sasuke x Sakura is mostly driven by Sasuke's individually popularity. Where's your evidence of that being the most popular Het pairing? And nobody claimed that popularity = quality.

3. Eariler, you argued that Vegeta was originally intended to have zero interest in romance or sex, I pointed out that if that was the case then VegeBul (or Vegeta x anyone) would have never happened (because it would be out-of-character). That was the whole argument. Nobody ever denied that the pairing happened just so that Trunks could appear, so you are making a strawman. And out-universe reasons why something happens in a story say nothing about the possible in-universe causes for why it happened.
Last edited by zarmack on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:37 pm

I get your point about change, but lack of change can be boring, especially when negative qualities don't get them what they want. And this is a matter of taste, but I find when immoral characters don't change one way or the other to become boring after a while. I don't want to watch five seasons of a mobster doing the same thing because it gets boring and pointless, whereas I can watch 10 years of moral people doing the same thing because I enjoy being around them.
Last edited by ABED on Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by zarmack » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:42 pm

ABED wrote:I get your point about change, but lack of change can be boring, especially when negative qualities don't get them what they want.
What if a character was written to be mentally retarded? That's an example of a truly unchangeable flaw. You can't "change" your intelligence to any major degree, so no amount of character development could plausibly get rid of it.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:45 pm

zarmack wrote:
ABED wrote:I get your point about change, but lack of change can be boring, especially when negative qualities don't get them what they want.
What if a character was written to be mentally retarded? That's an example of a truly unchangeable flaw. You can't "change" your intelligence to any major degree, so no amount of character development could plausibly get rid of it.
Not sure what you're pointing out, we're talking about stories.
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by zarmack » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:46 pm

ABED wrote:
zarmack wrote:
ABED wrote:I get your point about change, but lack of change can be boring, especially when negative qualities don't get them what they want.
What if a character was written to be mentally retarded? That's an example of a truly unchangeable flaw. You can't "change" your intelligence to any major degree, so no amount of character development could plausibly get rid of it.
Not sure what you're pointing out, we're talking about stories.
So am I.

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ABED
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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:47 pm

I don't see what you're trying to point out with the example of the mentally retarded character. Is this character the main character and how long is the series, what's it about?

Vegeta is often quite boring in the Cell arc because he keeps making the same mistake and it never gets him what he wants. What keeps the character interesting is that he changes over time, otherwise it would be hard to justify keeping him in the story. He becomes civil enough that he stays on Earth and has a child with one of the central characters. It's a shame their connection isn't shown. However, the son they produce does bring about change that shows a different side of Vegeta which was a refreshing change.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by zDBZ » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:49 am

FWIW, I think the anime's filler during the three-year period before the Androids arrive did a decent job fleshing out how Bulma developed her initial attraction to Vegeta. And while I can't recall very many instances of them interacting, I can remember seeing the way that they affected each other and their depth of feeling for each other develop over time in scenes when they're apart. On that basis, they're one of the more interesting couples.

Up until Goku's character starts to deteriorate into permanent "selfish manchild" mode, his marriage to Chi-Chi is pretty charming, as ridiculous as its beginnings are. But it's more weighted than Bulma and Vegeta's marriage; you see Goku's impact (good and bad) on Chi-Chi much more than you do Chi-Chi's impact on Goku.

Krillin and 18 are nice. That's about all I can say.

Gohan and Videl easily have the best story about how they got together. Granted, they're the only couple where that process was explored in any detail, so it isn't as though they have competition. But it was explored very nicely, with good character turns and a lot of appeal. Once they get together, their relationship is sweet, but it's also pretty static, and Videl loses most of her best personality traits.

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Re: Who are the best written couple in DB?

Post by Waluigiman » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:33 pm

Obviously Gohan and Videl. They were the only ones who were the most believable. Because they gradually liked each other more rather than suddenly deciding to marry offscreen (like Vegeta and Bulma. Seriously, it wasn't until Vegeta became good for real like half way during the Majin Buu arc.) Krillin and 18 seemed like an unlikely couple like those two until you realize that 18 has real reasons, she knows that Krillin didn't wanted to use the remote control and tried to stop Cell from absorbing her and even wished her explosive device away.

Best ways to describe them:

Goku and Chichi: some kind of arranged marriage. Chichi made the mistake to marry him without knowing him enough. They are the over-worked wife- and neglectful husband relationship.
Bulma and Yamcha (before Dragon Ball Z was a thing): Their relationship was as consistent as a dying light bulb. What makes it better or worse was the fact that Yamcha saved Bulma's life more than once and Bulma's accusations of him being unfaithful seemed unreal and she was no better. There is also the fact that they always came in good terms even after she married Vegeta.
Bulma and Vegeta: When a woman marries/dates an abusive boyfriend/husband. This couple becomes better near the end of Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super. So now they are the arguing-but-still-love-you-couple.
Krillin and 18: This one is the "ugly" man and beautiful wife pairing which only happened because 18 overlooked his appearance despite acting all cold on him.
Tien and Launch: This one is barely a couple since it's one-sided and it didn't last long.
Videl and Gohan: the rare and realistic pairing in which they slowly cared for each other for real and stayed happily together.

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