Name adaptations

[RandomGuy96]

As we know, Toriyama likes to give punny names to all his characters. Sometimes these puns don't really translate across culture and language barriers. In cases like this, do you think that the localization dub should leave the name as-is, or change it in order to fit the spirit rather than the letter of it?

Take the bit character Pui Pui for, example. His name is a generic magical incantation in Japanese, fitting the theme of the Buu arc villains (Bibidi, Babidi, Buu, Dabra). But this wasn't apparent to American audiences; "pui pui" is just a nonsense word to them, unlike (abraca)Dabra. So the Viz translation renamed him "Pocus", after "hocus pocus", which carries a similar meaning to its audience. I personally don't have any problem with that. Quite the opposite, the only thing that bugged me was that Viz left "Yakon" as-is, instead of changing it under the same logic as "Pui Pui." I would've preferred "Sesame" myself; fits both the naming theme and the Arabian Nights influence in a lot of the Buu arc designs.

[MyVisionity]

As we know, Toriyama likes to give punny names to all his characters. Sometimes these puns don't really translate across culture and language barriers. In cases like this, do you think that the localization dub should leave the name as-is, or change it in order to fit the spirit rather than the letter of it?

I say leave it as-is, and maybe add a note somewhere explaining the meaning. Although if it's a dub, that doesn't seem like an option, so you just have to trust the audience to accept the translation barriers and deal. That's just the reality of watching something that was intended for a Japanese audience.

[linkdude20002001]

I think names of characters should stay as-is. Names like 'Saibaiman' can be translated to 'Cultivars'...but then again, I you wouldn't want 'Namek' to be translated to 'Slugek' or some-thing, would you? 'Namek' comes from 'namekuji', and the Japanese get the name-pun connection, but do we really need that connection to be obvious? And are names like 'Nail' obviously from 'snail' to the Japanese, or do they miss out on it the same way we miss out on 'Namek'?

[RandomGuy96]

I think names of characters should stay as-is. Names like 'Saibaiman' can be translated to 'Cultivars'...but then again, I you wouldn't want 'Namek' to be translated to 'Slugek' or some-thing, would you?

But "Cultivars" isn't even a localization like "Pocus", it's just a translation of their name. "Saibai" means cultivation.

[Cipher]

Since Dragon Ball's name puns pull from multiple languages--primarily Japanese and English (or at least English loan words in Japanese), but not exclusively--it's too much of a headache to design an entirely consistent system for which should be adapted and which should be kept as-is. So, for consistency and recognizably between the different versions, I'd just lean towards carrying the names over as directly as possible, even if there's sometimes a switch between which puns are more obvious to their audience. (For every Pui-Pui, there's a Cell; it simply isn't worth the practice of picking out names to adapt or keep on an individual basis.)

Title names are another, more complicated matter, but I think something like Dragon Ball's clear routes in Chinese and Japanese mythology buy it some leeway in leaving them untranslated, which again maintains consistency between versions and is hard to argue too heavily against, even if it minorly changes the experience. (But again, with all of the name puns drawing from various languages, that experience isn't going to be 1:1 in the first place; it's a fool's errand trying to fight that.)

[MasenkoHA]

As we know, Toriyama likes to give punny names to all his characters. Sometimes these puns don't really translate across culture and language barriers. In cases like this, do you think that the localization dub should leave the name as-is, or change it in order to fit the spirit rather than the letter of it?
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I think we should be grateful they left Bulma as is and not call her Bloomer.

Some of the names just sound awkward in English. Like in Curse of Blood Rubies when Funimation redubbed it in house I couldn’t take the fact the little girls name was Pansy very seriously

[ekrolo2]

No matter what, the Makankosappo is gonna sound like ass.

[Mnich]

No matter what, the Makankosappo is gonna sound like ass.

It sounds awesome, still better than (insert this strange English voice) SPECIAL BEAM CANNON!

[Gaffer Tape]

First of all, agreed with what Cipher says.

Other than that, I personally lean towards keeping things as they are, but there are certain things that I wouldn't do myself that I wouldn't begrudge a localization for doing. For example, Mr. Satan? Personally, I pronounce his name Sah-tan because that's how his name is spelled and spoken. I can't think of him as anything else. In my mind, changing that would be like going up to a girl named "Anna" and telling her she's wrong to pronounce her personal name "Ah-na" because every other Anna I know doesn't pronounce it that way. But I am totally fine with and would completely expect any English localization to go with Say-tan. It's the obvious choice. As long as we're not just making crap up out of the blue... ... ... I'm fine with it.

In general, I can't say there's a hard and fast rule. It really does need to be a case-by-case basis. But in a lot of situations, like so many dubbing issues, people will just accept whatever they hear first. Do you think many FUNimation dub fans know or care that Duh-BOO-ruh is totally missing the point of its pun source? Or that "Fasha" isn't a vegetable? Then you have something like Pokemon, where Nintendo, for the most part, renames the creatures into English-appropriate wordplay. But what's the most famous Pokemon? Pikachu, whose name is nothing but Japanese onomatopoeia. Have you ever seen a single kid complain that they don't know what it's supposed to mean?

I think we should be grateful they left Bulma as is and not call her Bloomer.

I'm not...

[ekrolo2]

No matter what, the Makankosappo is gonna sound like ass.

It sounds awesome, still better than (insert this strange English voice) SPECIAL BEAM CANNON!

No, I mean no matter how you translate it, its gonna sound too long or too awkward or both. I can't name a single good translation of the name anywhere.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

For consistency and recognizably between the different versions, I'd just lean towards carrying the names over as directly as possible

Agreed. I'm always for keeping names as much as possible so that fans of different languages can easily communicate with each other about the same franchise without getting confused.

An example: I am Dutch, but I read the first six Harry Potter novels in English. Then, for a birthday, I got the seventh book in Dutch, and... just a couple of pages in, I was already confused. The name "Sneep" was recognizable enough (Dutch version of "Snape"), but he was accompanied by some guy called "Jeegers". I had no idea who this was. Was this a new character, or someone from a previous book that I should be familiar with? It took me checking the English version to find out that he was in fact a new character (named Yaxley).

That's the kind of unnecessary confusion I mean. I shouldn't have felt the need to cross-check the book in a different language to confirm who a character is. I can understand changing names slightly ("Snape" to "Sneep"; "Hermione" to "Hermelien") so that they remain pronouncable for Dutch people yet recognizable enough to those who are only familiar with the English names, but then changing "McGonagall" to something completely different like "Anderling" is just mind-boggling to me.

The same thing applies to Dragon Ball - try talking to a fellow fan about "Pocus" and, unless they happen to be familiar with the Viz manga, chances are they'll have no idea who you're talking about until you explain that he's also known as Pui Pui.

[Cipher]

First of all, agreed with what Cipher says.

Presumably everything I said except that terrible mix-up on "routes" and "roots," which I can no longer edit. Also "recognizably" instead of "recognizability."

[Kunzait_83]

No, I mean no matter how you translate it, its gonna sound too long or too awkward or both. I can't name a single good translation of the name anywhere.

When it comes specifically to attack/technique names, I'm all in favor of just leaving virtually just about ALL of them as Japanese words, untranslated.

And no, it isn't a weaboo thing in the slightest. Its just for the simple reason that they're all mystical martial arts techniques. That in and of itself gives you all the leeway and rationale in the world to just simply leave their names untranslated. In an ideal and properly translated and localized with care English version of DB/Z (anime dub or manga translation), there's nothing at all wrong with, and indeed probably preferable and more outright befitting to their nature as martial arts techniques, simply leaving all the technique names as Makankosappo, Kienzan, Sokidan, Kikoho, Masenko, Genkidama etc. They're basically magical kung fu moves: it totally works to just leave them be as Japanese words the characters yell when performing them.

Even in the already heavily Americanized dub we have today, no one has any issues whatsoever with move names like Kaioken and Kamehameha. And hell, Evolution even left Mafuba alone (whereas the dub translated it), and for all that movie's faults, that specific point was hardly any sort of an issue. So why is it acceptable to have SOME attack names stay untranslated, but not others? There isn't any good reason for it whatsoever, and its totally pointless, arbitrary, and stupid to translate only SOME attack names (badly in most cases) and others not at all. Just leave them all alone and its more than easy for the audience to simply accept that they're just exactly what they are: supernatural martial arts moves with funky Japanese names.

Due to the in-depth punny-nature of a lot of the character and location names (including, as Cipher rightly noted, the mixed languages inherent), coming up with a consistent and accurate English naming convention scheme for DB can in many instances be fairly legitimately tricky. But the attack names to me aren't one of those cases, and to me the answer of how best to handle them is obvious and fairly simple/straightforward: just leave them alone as their martial arts nature makes the reason for their having names of a foreign language self-evident. Don't try to fix what wasn't actually broken in the first place.

The exceptions to this of course being with characters like Vegeta, who's attack names were already English even in the original language to begin with (Final Flash, Big Bang Attack, etc), or some attacks that aren't straight up Japanese words but are also pun-based in their names (Gyarikku-Ho/Galic Gun being one that springs to mind). Those cases though are fairly rare exceptions, as the vast overwhelming majority of the attack names throughout DB/Z are simply straight ahead Japanese words.

[RandomGuy96]

Even in the already heavily Americanized dub we have today, no one has any issues whatsoever with move names like Kaioken and Kamehameha.

I actually would have preferred they translate that as "Fist of the World King" or something similar. Sounds nice.

[linkdude20002001]

But "Cultivars" isn't even a localization like "Pocus", it's just a translation of their name. "Saibai" means cultivation.

I'd argue that 'Pocus' is a translation of 'Puipui'. I mean, sure, it's not exactly the same, but that's the case with most words. There'll always be at least a slight difference, so you're always just choosing what you think is the closest in meaning in that particular context. We don't have anything like ちちんぷいぷい that works as both a "magic spell" to make the pain go away, and also used as a magic spell in Arabian Nights-themed shows, and also used as a magic spell in Ninja shows, etc. As a translator, you gotta just pick what you think the author would have used if it were written in English originally.

I think we should be grateful they left Bulma as is and not call her Bloomer.

Some of the names just sound awkward in English. Like in Curse of Blood Rubies when Funimation redubbed it in house I couldn’t take the fact the little girls name was Pansy very seriously

But ブルマ sounds awkward in Japanese. In fact, she's even embarrassd to tell Gokuh. And when he learns her name, he laughs hysterically.

When it comes specifically to attack/technique names, I'm all in favor of just leaving virtually just about ALL of them as Japanese words, untranslated.

And no, it isn't a weaboo thing in the slightest. Its just for the simple reason that they're all mystical martial arts techniques. That in and of itself gives you all the leeway and rationale in the world to just simply leave their names untranslated. In an ideal and properly translated and localized with care English version of DB/Z (anime dub or manga translation), there's nothing at all wrong with, and indeed probably preferable and more outright befitting to their nature as martial arts techniques, simply leaving all the technique names as Makankosappo, Kienzan, Sokidan, Kikoho, Masenko, Genkidama etc. They're basically magical kung fu moves: it totally works to just leave them be as Japanese words the characters yell when performing them.

I agree. You've got Japanese attacks, but also English ones, so if you translate 'Genki Dama' to "Spirit Ball", then are you gonna translate 'Final Flash' to "Kyūkyoku Hirame-ku"? I know it's not as robust with languages like One Piece is, but it still seems weird to translate the attack names. But I guess I don't mind too much, so long as they leave Piccolo's in Japanese... Ah, but then why translate 'Genki Dama', but not 'Kamehame-Ha' to "Kamehame Wave" (Like Creative Products did)? Becuz of the pun? But the pun is half Japanese, so they're not going to get it anyway...