DB's Revival

[ABED]

How have you guys been enjoying DB's revival? Where does it sit for you in the current trend of series revivals?

I enjoyed Battle of Gods. I thought it was a fun movie with great new characters, but I haven't enjoyed much since. It seems too reliant on nostalgia. I'm not inherently against series revivals, but VERY few have been good. Although, I think it's cool Goku will be in the Macy's thanksgiving day parade.

[ekrolo2]

I like BoG the movie and Legends, that's about it

[ABED]

I like BoG the movie and Legends, that's about it

What's Legends, I ask at the risk of sounding stupid?

[ekrolo2]

I like BoG the movie and Legends, that's about it

What's Legends, I ask at the risk of sounding stupid?

A mobile game where you play an amnesiac Saiyan on an Earth where warriors from all sorts of different eras are arriving to battle for or against one another. It's lead to some cool character arcs, dynamics and even plotlines that play around with the series toys. It's not groundbreaking but it's a fun game and the plot does Xenoverse better than Xenoverse itself.

[Forte224]

I'm overall neutral, but lean slightly towards the negative. Battle of Gods didn't wow me the way it did everyone else, but that's back when I was a HEAVY OG FUNi+Faulconer fan and hated Japanese Dragon Ball, Kai, etc. I really do wish I could go back with the perspective I have now as a fan of the Japanese version/Kai dub and watch it for the first time again. I DO like the movie a lot these days though. And despite the...less than accurate script, it's the one Dragon Ball product where I feel the dub outshines the Japanese performances.

Anyway, Resurrection F was indeed pretty bland, but I enjoyed seeing characters like Roshi and Tenshinhan being used again. Otherwise, pretty forgettable.

Super...yeesh. The animation for its first 3 arcs alone made me really sour on it. During the Black arc, the animation got better, but that awful Yamamuro art style looks REALLY bad when it's bad, and only looks pretty good when it's good. Of course, the ToP, while still retaining the shiny, unappealing artstyle, had some episodes with great animation. The problem is I couldn't have cared less about what was going on. Jiren might be one of the worst, most underdeveloped villains in the franchise.

Super's best arc, the Black arc, was such a disappointment near the end that it soured me on all of the previous highs from the arc.

All that said, the one thing I'm really optimistic about is the new Broli movie. The shift in art style won me over from the very first teaser trailer. I'm just really hopeful Toriyama, Toei, or whoever the hell is in charge don't drop the ball with the story. Guess we'll see.

In conclusion, Battle of Gods is the one thing I look back on now and can really say it's something I enjoy. Other than that and the Broli movie, I've been pretty negative on Dragon Ball's revival. The one reason I'm able to stay neutral on it is that the original 42 volumes of the manga and 444 episodes of the anime still exist, and this new stuff doesn't affect my view of them in any way. New Dragon Ball content doesn't need to exist at all, just like the new Star Wars trilogy doesn't need to exist. The franchise had a definitive end with nearly all characters wrapping up their development, so new stuff is just harmless extra credit.

[Gaffer Tape]

I liked Battle of Gods quite a bit. As a one-off nostalgia "Return to Dragon Ball" experience, it did exactly what it was supposed to do. I got to see the characters I loved doing entertaining things. It had two new characters that were likewise interesting as well as relatively unique within the series. And as tired as I am of transformations, Super Saiyan God was a design and concept I actually rather liked.

And then Resurrection F came along and... sigh. I remember being so bored in the theatre. It was everything I didn't want in terms of soulless nostalgia pandering. Their own marketing said it was the worst wish in history. In reality, it was pretty much the same wish everyone makes on the Dragon Balls, and it resulted in a slightly inconvenient afternoon. It was said his hardline original editor praised the story. But there was no story. Just ten minutes of setup, followed by a not terribly interesting bullet points rehash of The Freeza Arc. Another transformation was thrown in, this one not nearly as interesting as the previous one. But apparently it was what everyone else wanted because it was popular enough to launch a mediocre-to-terrible television series.

I tried. I really did. And there were some decent episodes of Super. But there wasn't a single storyline I found even remotely compelling. I really thought I was going to like the Tournament of Power going in. The recruitment episodes made it seem promising. But I guess they shot their wad there because following that was month upon month of dreary, boring, pointless, confusing, un-engaging fighting.

Then there's the upcoming movie. I'm holding out hope. But once again, it's pandering to nostalgia, which is all the franchise seems able to do. And they're purposely targeting a Western audience, which really frightens me since the typical "Western DB fan" is a fan of the Faulconer music, monster truck rally announcer, pro-wrestling dub. So I fully expect it to be just as fight-heavy and story-lacking as anything else lately.

In short, Dragon Ball's revival has been a colossal disappointment to me, and... honestly, while there's no way in hell it's going to happen, part of me hopes this movie bombs hard because maybe that will kill this zombie franchise. But I am seriously at the point where, if this movie is not good, I'm not sure how much more of this I can stomach before I just stop following it entirely.

[ekrolo2]

In short, Dragon Ball's revival has been a colossal disappointment to me, and... honestly, while there's no way in hell it's going to happen, part of me hopes this movie bombs hard because maybe that will kill this zombie franchise.

Nah, Battle of Gods is what should've bombed to kill this in its crib. We'd have gotten a good movie AND been sparred a lot of pointlessness.

[Doctor.]

I liked the 2008 special. I liked Battle of Gods quite a bit, as well.

Everything else is either mediocre with some good ideas that weren't executed well, or downright awful. Resurrection 'F', the Tournament of Power of the Super anime and literally everything including Bardock is as close to an insult as you can get. I continue to watch because I have enough free time to watch a movie every so often or an episode per week, and I can enjoy the dumb spectacle once in a while, but I can't say the revival has been positive for the series' image. As much as I like Battle of Gods, a lot of modern DB's problems started there and they should have been nipped in the bud in subsequent products rather than encouraged.

[Kataphrut]

It came at the right time for me. I didn't care about the franchise prior to the one-two punch of the Abridged series and Battle of Gods, and Resurrection F and Super (and Xenoverse and FighterZ) gave me new stuff to latch onto as I rediscovered the old stuff. I'm pretty happy with it because most of the big events that happened in this era are things I can say defined my experience as a fan. I can't say that about the classic stuff even though I love it, if only because I originally experienced it mostly through on and off viewings of a terribly dubbed morning cartoon.

I can't blame people for being disappointed with it, but at the same time I don't share the view that the old stuff is sacrosanct. Dragon Ball is, and always was a franchise, it's going to have it's peaks and troughs, it'll phase in and out of relevance.
Even after this train comes to a stop and we stop getting new stories under the Super brand, there'll be video games, new merch and other spinoffs to keep it ticking over until the next revolution, just like last time.

[JohnnyCashKami]

Modern Dragon Ball, you mean. It's being meh for me, more disappointments than moments of actual excitement.

At least the new Super Broly movie looks awesome.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

As a whole the Revival has been mostly an enjoyable experience with some rough edges.

Battle of Gods was a great adition to the franchise and an excellent way to start the revival , then Ressurection F came, I wouldn't say it was the worst thing but it surely was a big dissapointment after the bar BoG set up for quality new content . The revival is in neutral state .

Dragon Ball Super comes and starts with the retelling of Battle of Gods in 13 episodes format, it's below the quality of the movie but is mostly watchable, this thing is neutral . The retelling of Ressurection F is absolutely boring and in place unwatchable due to poor animation, suffice to say this was not good . At this stage the Revival is on red numbers .

The God of Destruction Chama Arc is watchablet thanks to some entertaining fights (more than either Ressurection F movie and tv adaptation had offered) but very inconsequential with little narrative, this doesn't add or subtract points . Future Trunks Arc rages between good and excellent thanks to Trunks character development, Goku Black and Zamasu as quite refreshing villans to the series and more consistent animation, this arc was a plus to the Revival , moving it from the red numbers to neutral state .

Comes the Universe Survival Arc, compared to the previous arc, this one quite light in narrative but never reaches the lightness of either RoF Arc or Champa Arc, what elabates this arc are 3 things: the recruitment episodes, fun fights with even more consistent/good animation than before, the development of some characters (like Kuririn and Muten Roshi). This arc has enough for me to consider this a moderate sucess and thus this is a plus for the Revival , the Revival ends with a positive number .

Now we have to wait and see watch the new movie will bring to the table .

[PFM18]

I absolutely love it. It has completely revitalized my love for this franchise and I find myself re-watching Super episodes to such an extent that is possibly unhealthy at this point. I can't wait for the movie and I find myself being unreasonably excited to discuss things in Modern DB. Of course, I would imagine this is a very unpopular viewpoint but I don't particularly care.

I think a big part of the reason I enjoy it so much is that I don't have a problem with any of the characterizations besides Videl. ( I don't like "generic housewife Videl" I preferred the feisty, tom-boyish Videl.) A lot of other people see the way that Goku/Vegeta's characterization has been squandered and I would imagine that it hampers people's ability to enjoy the show. Not that there is anything wrong with that, everyone has their preferences. Myself, I see Super Goku as the same idiot he has always been and I actually love Vegeta's characterization. It finds a healthy medium between the cocky, prideful Vegeta, and the developed, more reserved Vegeta that loves his family and who has adjusted to his life on Earth. He's not completely consumed by his rivalry with Goku, but it still is a priority of his that keeps in mind, as it should be IMO. I could go on, but I'll end the tiny synopsis here.

[Ssjcell]

Well I think everyone is wrong saying that new Dragonball is bad Dragonball . I think what people hate is that it is a lot of world building making it feel like we are being set up for something bigger. Which is probably what is happening my guess is that new Dragonball is in it's infancy. So far I suppose there is a lot of anger at the fact that the first two arcs were retelling and retcons did occur . The anger is understandable we did have a lot of good things Gohan is relevant again which is good he has a lot of potential instead of feeling so maxed out. The Champa arc was pretty decent essentially a pissing contest between God's who are now more or less peers to the main cast. We also had a tournament that was for all the marbles and it felt at times appropriately epic. In the end we have a new Ally potentially in jiren and a former ally frieza, whom of which will probably be killed in the new movie. There's a lot of good in Dragonball which could always been nitpicked , my favorite part is that the old useless characters are now useful no matter how we had to get there I feel the ends justify the means . I loved the recruitment for the top arc seeing Gohan piccolo Goku majin Buu Kuririn and roshi fight was great . In conclusion most of what we've seen makes sense if it is the tip of the iceberg which I'm convinced is the actual situation.

[MagicBox]

In recent years, my attitude towards entertainment has changed. A side effect of getting older, I guess, with more and more things vying for my attention. And it feels so weird saying this, because I vividly remember being a fan in the mid-2000s and desperately starving for something, anything new. That feeling of pure bliss when a TV commercial for a new video game featured fifteen seconds of new Dragon Ball animation. But lately, I've come around to the state of mind that maybe, just maybe, things don't need to last forever.

Whether you consider it the last hurrah of the "classic" era, as I do, or the first step into the "modern" era (I suppose it's both), "Heya! Son Gokū and Friends Return!!" is a delightful reunion special. Even now, it's my favorite thing to come from the franchise during this long decade of new material. Everyone has their classic voice actors. Key members of the classic production staff were reunited for the final time. Even the classic music returns. It fits in seamlessly with everything that came before it. The tone is perfectly replicated. Looking back from a 2018 perspective, the entire franchise could have ended right there and I don't feel like we would have missed out on anything substantial.

You might notice I'm speaking more from a "production" standpoint than a "story" standpoint. But honestly, that's because the original run of Dragon Ball didn't leave me with any desire to see the story continue. I was full. Satisfied. I don't need anything else "in-universe", and the animated adaption from the 80s-90s provides an incredibly generous amount of supplemental material if I'm ever in the mood.

The Dragon Ball fandom is incredible about acknowledging the individuals who brought this franchise to fruition. We regularly have discussions about the voice cast, directors, composers, writers, and sound designers. We break down the work of individual animators. Hardly any other fan communities even come close to this. We enter each new TV series, movie, special, etc. with a detailed knowledge of the people behind it and what to expect from them. It's become as vital to our appreciation of these creations as the stories and characters themselves. It's from that perspective that I've been approaching Dragon Ball since before this "revival" ever began. I'm not sticking around for the stories; I'm here to spend more time with the cast I know and love.

It's for this reason that the "revival" has been so... disheartening. No matter how good ("The God and the God", "Resurrection 'F'", some of "Super") or bad ("Kai", "The Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans", "Episode of Bardock", most of "Super") these new Dragon Ball installments*** have been, nothing has been able to escape this underlying sense of melancholy that comes from slowly losing the people we've known and loved for so long. Shunsuke Kikuchi's retired. We've lost Daisuke Gōri. Hidenori Arai's been replaced. Jōji Yanami's retired. We've lost Hiromi Tsuru. That's only a handful of examples. This is what happens when you revive a once-dormant brand and force it to continue indefinitely. "Zombie Dragon Ball" really isn't all that inaccurate a term. It's going to keep going and going, outliving everyone who's ever worked on it, until it's forced to reinvent itself into something that only barely resembles what it was. The situation wouldn't be so bad if the franchise were at least thriving creatively, but the upcoming 20th film seems to be the only (potentially) bright spot in a decade of half-hearted coasting.

Not everything has to strive for immortality, or even timelessness. Every piece of media has a period of existence during which it is "right". Dragon Ball is a franchise that reached its full potential for entertainment value and cultural relevance during the 1980s and 1990s, thanks to a specific group of individuals, and I've yet to see a production from any creative team that makes a compelling case for its existence in the 2010s. I suspect it'll keep lurching along, swiftly supplanting cast and crew members as they pass away, until we lose someone irreplaceable (Masako Nozawa, knock on wood). Then they'll abandon everything and "reboot" the entire franchise with a new creative direction and cheaper cast. I suspect that'll be the point of no return for me. In the meantime, I do my best to abide the current output, as difficult as it can be.

***Now, I absolutely love Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, and while it's mostly its own series, I do realize that it probably wouldn't exist if it weren't for the state of Dragon Ball in 2013. But I'm not sure I have an answer as to whether that trade-off is worth it.

[ABED]

I think DB is immortal, not because it keeps going, but because it is popular and keeps pulling in fans, just like films such as Jaws, Back to the Future, and The Wizard of Oz. Not saying it is or isn't as good as those films, just giving examples of works that have a life past their initial run.

I'm in complete agreement about being fine when things end. When I was younger I would've said more is better, but now as I've gotten older and seen more, a good ending is worth its weight in gold.

[Kid Buu]

.And they're purposely targeting a Western audience.

Wow. This is the first I have heard of this. Got a citation? I believe you but I would like to read more about this.

Either way most of the Western world wasn't exposed to the Falcouner music so I doubt it's on that level. Unless you mean English-speaking world.

[zarmack]

I liked Battle of Gods quite a bit. As a one-off nostalgia "Return to Dragon Ball" experience, it did exactly what it was supposed to do. I got to see the characters I loved doing entertaining things. It had two new characters that were likewise interesting as well as relatively unique within the series. And as tired as I am of transformations, Super Saiyan God was a design and concept I actually rather liked.

And then Resurrection F came along and... sigh. I remember being so bored in the theatre. It was everything I didn't want in terms of soulless nostalgia pandering. Their own marketing said it was the worst wish in history. In reality, it was pretty much the same wish everyone makes on the Dragon Balls, and it resulted in a slightly inconvenient afternoon. It was said his hardline original editor praised the story. But there was no story. Just ten minutes of setup, followed by a not terribly interesting bullet points rehash of The Freeza Arc. Another transformation was thrown in, this one not nearly as interesting as the previous one. But apparently it was what everyone else wanted because it was popular enough to launch a mediocre-to-terrible television series.

I tried. I really did. And there were some decent episodes of Super. But there wasn't a single storyline I found even remotely compelling. I really thought I was going to like the Tournament of Power going in. The recruitment episodes made it seem promising. But I guess they shot their wad there because following that was month upon month of dreary, boring, pointless, confusing, un-engaging fighting.

Then there's the upcoming movie. I'm holding out hope. But once again, it's pandering to nostalgia, which is all the franchise seems able to do. And they're purposely targeting a Western audience, which really frightens me since the typical "Western DB fan" is a fan of the Faulconer music, monster truck rally announcer, pro-wrestling dub. So I fully expect it to be just as fight-heavy and story-lacking as anything else lately.

In short, Dragon Ball's revival has been a colossal disappointment to me, and... honestly, while there's no way in hell it's going to happen, part of me hopes this movie bombs hard because maybe that will kill this zombie franchise. But I am seriously at the point where, if this movie is not good, I'm not sure how much more of this I can stomach before I just stop following it entirely.

When did they actually say they were particularly targeting the Western audience? Do you have any source? The West doesn't even have the largest foreign fanbase for Dragonball. There are other regions in the world (such as the rest of East Asia and Latin America) that have a much larger DB fandom than North America & Europe.

And the "Broly is only popular/mainly in the West" myth is just that, a myth. So making Broly the main villain for the new film isn't evidence for them targeting the West either.

[zarmack]

.And they're purposely targeting a Western audience.

Wow. This is the first I have heard of this. Got a citation? I believe you but I would like to read more about this.

Either way most of the Western world wasn't exposed to the Falcouner music so I doubt it's on that level. Unless you mean English-speaking world.

The Engilsh speaking DB fandom (USA, UK, Canada, Australia) is really small compared to many other regions in the world. So I doubt that's true.

[ABED]

Just because there are larger fanbases doesn't mean the English speaking world isn't a significant fanbase.

[Kid Buu]

.And they're purposely targeting a Western audience.

Wow. This is the first I have heard of this. Got a citation? I believe you but I would like to read more about this.

Either way most of the Western world wasn't exposed to the Falcouner music so I doubt it's on that level. Unless you mean English-speaking world.

The Engilsh speaking DB fandom (USA, UK, Canada, Australia) is really small compared to many other regions in the world. So I doubt that's true.

New Zealand too, but yes I agree. I can buy into the idea Falcouner music is popular in the Anglosphere but not the West as a whole.