Funimation Remastering of Z - What did they do wrong?

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

As the thread title implies, I want to know exactly what Funimation did that was so terrible to the Blu-ray season sets of Z (besides the 16:9 cropping). I am not a video person. I had to look up what DVNR was when I saw it being used in the movie remaster thread. So what exactly did Funimation do so poorly that Toei did not with the movie remasters whether it be the Amazon version or the version they are releasing on Blu-ray? I personally have noticed that the colors are a tad off with the Funimation remasters in that Super Saiyan is more of a yellow hair color instead of the original gold, and they did DVNR for grain removal that smeared the image. But does anyone have more in-depth detailed descriptions of other mistakes they've made?

I'm curious because the Toei movie remasters legit look extremely similar to the Funimation season set remasters. Everyone is talking about how Toei is doing a better job regardless of whether the picture has DVNR or not, but I really can't tell the difference between the two. The only time I've seen a noticeably better job was with Kai. To me, it seemed like they removed grain without DVNR and losing image detail or messing up colors.

Sorry if this doesn't deserve a thread, but some people here are so into this stuff I figured I could get some good responses that would derail the movie remasters thread.

[LordCrumb]

The Toei remastered movies don't look anything like the SEASON sets of Dragon Ball Z. This is because;

Funimation did not have access to a better source for their remastering of Dragon Ball Z.
Funimation were cheap and used too much of an automatic process.


Very strange if you think the Season sets look like the Toei Remasters... don't want to be rude, but are you watching these Season sets / Movies Online or from the actual Blu-Ray?

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I own the BDs from Funimation's season sets of Z. I'm just saying that the comparison images I've seen online truly don't look that different which is why I want some people to explain it. I don't really like Funimation's remastering on the BD sets, but I don't see much difference between them and the Toei remasters. Not at first glance, at least.

[JohnnyCashKami]

I'm curious because the Toei movie remasters legit look extremely similar to the Funimation season set remasters.

I've asked weird questions here but 'TOEI Remasters look pretty much the same as FUNi Remasters so how did they do it?' goes even further.

Make room on your shelves because the Dragon Ball Z Season Sets are finally on Blu-ray! We embarked on a frame-by-frame restoration process to remove any blemishes, tape marks, and foreign bodies that might have tarnished your viewing experience. All three audio tracks have been re-mastered in the interest of noise reduction and superior sound quality. The bolder, more vibrant color of this ultimate Dragon Ball Z release closely mirrors the visual aesthetics of today's entertainment. Lastly, we undertook a precise shot-by-shot reframing of the entire series to create a modern HD widescreen presentation of this legendary fan favorite! It's time to experience Dragon Ball Z like you've never experienced it before!

Couldn't find video evidence of how they handled the remaster but very likely the same way as the Orange Bricks went, and we know how that worked out.

[Captain Awesome]

Even when Funimation took the utmost care with the level sets they still looked terrible.

Their multigenerational film masters are so noisy and faded that I don’t think they can really be salvaged.

[professorwho]

Okay, let's break it down. You know about the cropping so let's skip that:

The source- it's 16mm film, but a third generation copy. It's not terrible, but it has more grain than the first generation, and is less refined.

DNR- it means to reduce noise in an image, but because a computer can't tell the difference between video noise and film grain (which is part of the image, and gives texture), it can remove grain when not properly calibrated. FUNi removed pretty much all of the film grain to make it look "modern", which removes fine detail on the 16mm film.

Edge Enhancement- this is what happens when your source looks "soft". 16mm is lesser than 35mm in terms of quality, so FUNi decided to artificially "enhance" the edges of stuff (like arms and pretty much everything) to make it look sharp. It looks sharp, yes, but artificially. It's fake, and looses detail yet again, and smears the artwork.

Colour boosting- they took the 16mm film, scanned it, and BOOSTED the colours. They're brighter, and off. It's not what the show is supposed to look like- they boosted contrast, and other filters applied to make it seem more colourful, but it actually looks worse- less detail, and because everything is brighter, the darker colours don't stand out as much, thus the balance is lost, creating a worse image.,

Smearing- hey, let's take the image, and smear some Vaseline across it! Yeah, it removes detail, and removes sharpness, thus making the edge enhancement applied on top of this stick out even more!

There's even more, but I'll stop there. It's hard to explain how it's so bad, because EVERYTHING that can go wrong, did. It's a 1/10 from me. That 1 is simply because it's uncut. In reality, it's a 0/10 because it has zero respect for the source.

[Bruma rabu]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don't own any of the season sets other than 1 and it's one of the later ones to be able to show you why the toei remaster looks miles better than the Funi season sets. But from what I remember the seasons sets almost look like an oil painting, everything is so rounded out and line detail is gone. The grain is constantly trying to fight It's way back and gives the video a weird effect. The blacks are crushed I think. It's just a mess. Maybe you're thinking of the level sets? Then I could see an argument as to why toei remaster look like Funis.

[KBABZ]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don't own any of the season sets other than 1 and it's one of the later ones to be able to show you why the toei remaster looks miles better than the Funi season sets. But from what I remember the seasons sets almost look like an oil painting, everything is so rounded out and line detail is gone. The grain is constantly trying to fight It's way back and gives the video a weird effect. The blacks are crushed I think. It's just a mess. Maybe you're thinking of the level sets? Then I could see an argument as to why toei remaster look like Funis.

Another issue I see a lot is that the Orange Brick footage is almost constantly over-exposed and far too bright.

[Bruma rabu]

Here's comparisons between the movie 1's OP and Funi's season sets OP

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

[DHM211]

Here's comparisons between the movie 1's OP and Funi's season sets OP

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

This is a perfect comparison because Funi actually uses Dead Zones opening for their blu-ray.

[Bruma rabu]

This is a perfect comparison because Funi actually uses Dead Zones opening for their blu-ray.

I didnt know that, but unfortunately this op is from the last episodes that use Cha-La Head-Cha-La before they switched to We Gotta Power. Interesting tid bit though.

[Robo4900]

1. Cropping.

2. Such strong DNR and digital sharpening that the texture of the image is destroyed.

All other things are nitpicks and cases of it not being as good as other masters, but otherwise being fine in the given respect; Funi's masters of the movies, for instance, are actually rather good, as they use an acceptable aspect ratio, and didn't destroy the image like they did for the series and TV specials. There are better masters, but it's not a case like their series masters, which are straight-up crap.

[Forte224]

Okay, let's break it down. You know about the cropping so let's skip that:

The source- it's 16mm film, but a third generation copy. It's not terrible, but it has more grain than the first generation, and is less refined.

DNR- it means to reduce noise in an image, but because a computer can't tell the difference between video noise and film grain (which is part of the image, and gives texture), it can remove grain when not properly calibrated. FUNi removed pretty much all of the film grain to make it look "modern", which removes fine detail on the 16mm film.

Edge Enhancement- this is what happens when your source looks "soft". 16mm is lesser than 35mm in terms of quality, so FUNi decided to artificially "enhance" the edges of stuff (like arms and pretty much everything) to make it look sharp. It looks sharp, yes, but artificially. It's fake, and looses detail yet again, and smears the artwork.

Colour boosting- they took the 16mm film, scanned it, and BOOSTED the colours. They're brighter, and off. It's not what the show is supposed to look like- they boosted contrast, and other filters applied to make it seem more colourful, but it actually looks worse- less detail, and because everything is brighter, the darker colours don't stand out as much, thus the balance is lost, creating a worse image.,

Smearing- hey, let's take the image, and smear some Vaseline across it! Yeah, it removes detail, and removes sharpness, thus making the edge enhancement applied on top of this stick out even more!

There's even more, but I'll stop there. It's hard to explain how it's so bad, because EVERYTHING that can go wrong, did. It's a 1/10 from me. That 1 is simply because it's uncut. In reality, it's a 0/10 because it has zero respect for the source.

I disagree that it's uncut. The top and bottom are cut out, so technically I'm not seeing the footage uncut. The episode just happens to run as long as the original uncut episode did. Therefore...0/10.

[DHM211]

1. Cropping.

2. Such strong DNR and digital sharpening that the texture of the image is destroyed.

All other things are nitpicks and cases of it not being as good as other masters, but otherwise being fine in the given respect; Funi's masters of the movies, for instance, are actually rather good, as they use an acceptable aspect ratio, and didn't destroy the image like they did for the series and TV specials. There are better masters, but it's not a case like their series masters, which are straight-up crap.

The Funi remastered movies vary in quality tbh. Movies
1,6, and 8 look atrocious, movies 9, 12, and 13 look really good, and the rest average somewhere in between.

[Gaffer Tape]

I disagree that it's uncut. The top and bottom are cut out, so technically I'm not seeing the footage uncut. The episode just happens to run as long as the original uncut episode did. Therefore...0/10.

I'd say it's even worse than that. No original credits. I wouldn't consider that uncut footage either. No next episode previews, so they don't even run as long as the original uncut episode did.

[Damned]

There is also (Maybe only with Season 1, not sure about the others) streaks of fading grain from DNR not being applied properly, which causes a lot of the line work to wobble around. I also remember hearing about issues with ghosting as well (Essentially, a transparent "ghost-like" still image of something in a previous frame of animation on that same something in a later frame of animation).

[JohnnyCashKami]

I disagree that it's uncut. The top and bottom are cut out, so technically I'm not seeing the footage uncut. The episode just happens to run as long as the original uncut episode did. Therefore...0/10.

You're right that it's not genuinely uncut but FUNimation still gets away with it because they call it "EXPERIENCE THE CLASSIC SERIES IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED!" when that's never been the case and it's downright a lie that the majority of their customers believe.

Hm, I guess folks back in the 70's, 80's and 90's were using the wrong aspect ratio. >_<

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

Here's comparisons between the movie 1's OP and Funi's season sets OP

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

Spoiler:

Movie 1


Season Set

In every picture the Funi remaster looks better than the Toei version. But I know for a fact from owning the season sets that Funi screwed up via cropping, color ruining, blurring things (forget the tech term), and sharpening edges of characters.

[linkdude20002001]

In every picture the Funi remaster looks better than the Toei version. But I know for a fact from owning the season sets that Funi screwed up via cropping, color ruining, blurring things (forget the tech term), and sharpening edges of characters.

You're saying that the bottom of each pair of images looks better than the top!? But the bottom image looks like it's been edited in an attempt to make it look INTENTIONALLY bad. Like those videoes internet trolls make with the ear-hurting/speaker-damaging audio. Just look at Gokuh's gi, at the line between light orange and dark orange.

[KBABZ]

1. Cropping.

2. Such strong DNR and digital sharpening that the texture of the image is destroyed.

All other things are nitpicks and cases of it not being as good as other masters, but otherwise being fine in the given respect; Funi's masters of the movies, for instance, are actually rather good, as they use an acceptable aspect ratio, and didn't destroy the image like they did for the series and TV specials. There are better masters, but it's not a case like their series masters, which are straight-up crap.

Personally I'd add the over-exposed colour grade onto the list as well.