Would you like to see the Dragon Ball Franchise on Netflix, (Even if it was redubbed)

[Robo4900]

I will note that arguably other translators have done as good a job as Simmons in the past, occasionally a little better. Simmons is very literal, sometimes to the detriment of the content("Weasel's last fart", anyone?). I always quite appreciated Rika Takahashi's subs for the Pioneer movie DVDs, and Clyde Mandelin's subs for OG Dragon Ball, as they tended to be less literal, and could often be a lot more natural.

Don't take this the wrong way, of course; Simmons did great work, it's just his subs on Z could sometimes be a bit clunky. He showed a lot of improvement for Kai, and I kinda wish there was a way to watch Z where dialogue that was the same in Kai -- which I'm given to understand is almost all of it -- used Simmons' Kai subtitles for those lines. Or maybe just that for some upcoming release, Simmons would be brought in to run over his old subs and give them a general once-over/quality check, changing anything he saw fit to.

[MasenkoHA]

, and Clyde Mandelin's subs for OG Dragon Ball, as they tended to be less literal, and could often be a lot more natural.
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I don’t know lick of Japanese to be critical, so maybe I’m misguided or pedantic, but to be honest I wasn’t a big fan of the OG Dragon Ball subs leaving Nyobi and Kinto Un as is. Or leaving Japanese honorifics in the subtitles.

[Dr. Casey]

*snip*

Ah, I was thinking that he actually went around directly quoting plays from Shakespeare. :P The reality is less fun; that dialogue's just kind of bad and headache-inducing.

[Robo4900]

, and Clyde Mandelin's subs for OG Dragon Ball, as they tended to be less literal, and could often be a lot more natural.
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I don’t know lick of Japanese to be critical, so maybe I’m misguided or pedantic, but to be honest I wasn’t a big fan of the OG Dragon Ball subs leaving Nyobi and Kinto Un as is. Or leaving Japanese honorifics in the subtitles.

That was the case in Simmons' subs too...

Thing is, Simmons would likely remove honourifics if he subbed Dragon Ball now, but he leaves them in for his modern Dragon Ball work to keep consistency with his older work. I imagine whether or not Mandelin wanted to remove the honourifics or not, he would have been instructed to keep consistency with Simmons' work. Keep in mind that up until the first appearance of God/Kami, all instances of the Japanese word "Kami", with or without honourifics, are rendered in Mandelin's subs as "God", which is what the word means, but once that character shows up, the subs switch to saying "Kami" or "Kami-sama". Almost certainly a case of keeping consistency with Simmons having previously rendered that character's name through a direct romanisation.

Kinto Un and Nyoibo is a deliberate, correct thing. Those are proper names that come from Journey To The West. The dub terms "Power pole" and "Flying nimbus" that you'll commonly see replace the original terms are entirely invented, and have no relation to the original names, which somewhat robs these items of their connection to the original Chinese tale. You'll find this is a pattern in the dub name changes.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Is the acting in Japanese Kai still better than the Funimation Kai cast at the top of their game? Yes


I think it’s insane that people want to pretend English Kai is better than Japanese Kai. It’s not better. It’s better than English Z

Co-signing onto this 1000%

Poor Joji Yanami at his absolute sickest and most vocally frail could still easily dance circles around Schemmel's still godawful unlistenable Kaio, Horikawa at his most bored and disinterestedly phoning it in is still on a whole other level that's lightyears beyond Sabat's still wincingly terrible Vegeta rendition, and Daisuke Gori's corpse right now from its casket six feet under can very likely still put in an infinitely superior Mr. Satan performance than Chris Rager.

I've said it before and will keep saying it: the original legacy FUNimation cast are just inherently and innately bad, untalented actors, and even at their absolute apex "best", they are still unbelievably dogshit in these roles because they simply. Cannot. Act. So "improved" for them is a HIGHLY relative concept that simply means "less shitty than they were when they started, but still plenty shitty all the same". At the end of the day, you cannot get blood from a stone here: if someone lacks raw performance talent and charisma, then all the practice and repetition in the universe isn't going to paper over that, even over the course of years and years.

Kai's dub isn't "good": its simply "less bad than Z". Its the turd at its absolute most spit-shined and polished. Ayers is more than fine and serviceable as Freeza, but he's still just one voice that's surrounded by the likes of Schemmel, Sabat, Strait, etc. who all at their absolute best and most polished still wouldn't make the grade as extras in a porn film. Even as 20 year vets, they STILL all largely sound like complete amateurs in a fan dub done by stoned high schoolers.

I would of course enthusiastically and vigorously voice my support for a complete, from the ground up redub of the whole entire franchise (all TV series, movies, and specials) with totally recast from scratch voices filled with genuine professionals who can at a bare minimum deliver baseline competent performances that don't sound like they're straight from a bottom-rung cartoon replacement for Power Rangers: but of course I know that this is hardly in any way remotely a likely possibility with FUNimation (whom I wouldn't trust with such a from scratch redub anyway: I'd at this point probably just want a whole new company to completely take over the reigns from them), and its hardly something I would outright demand for DB on Netflix.

Just give me the Japanese version with Simmons' subs in a non-cropped, non-saturated format (doesn't even have to be on the level of the Dragon Box footage, though that would still be nice if possible), and we're golden.

I don't see why people still feel the need to utterly trounce and lambast the Funimatiom cast and write them off as trash. If you don't like their performances, fine, art is subjective, just watch the Japanese version or alternate English dubs if they do it for you, but with the level of disdain leveraged at their work you would swear some people expect them to be Daniel Day Lewis to even be considered serviceable. Sure they're not the best actors in the world. I happen to think they started out crap but they are certainly above adequate by now. Again, your entitled to disagree but for me it just feels this vitriol comes from how bad the cast were originally. Had they been as good as they are today 20 years ago and remained around that level ever since I don't think they'd be trashed like this, they'd just be seen by most people as decent actors at worst, not complete dogshit. Believe me I've seen fandubs and movies with rubbish actors and the Funimation cast run circles around them. They are not the best in the world, not even by voice acting standards (Scott McNeil was in this show after all) but for me personally I think most of them do a fine job. The real issue with modern Dragon Ball dubs is Super's script changes.

But in all seriousness, I'm totally and virulently against having these characters be performed as "Saturday morning cartoon" characters: what's long been DESPERATELY needed in an English DB/Z dub is naturalism. Just have the characters be allowed to speak in natural, organic, conversational sounding voices rather than doing an over the top silly caricature of a voice. No over the top rasps or forced grunts or silly, stereotypically broad accents: just speak into the microphone and Act. Natural. Its what 99% of the Japanese voices have all generally done throughout, and it works absolute wonders for this anime because it allows for the characters to posses shades of real emotional subtlety. And that elevates the overall quality of this anime VASTLY beyond its inherent silly ridiculousness.

The Ocean voices were vastly superior and more professional & charismatic Saturday morning cartoon voice actors than the FUNimation cast could ever hope to be: but they're still playing these characters as broad Saturday morning cartoon characters. And that's the particular flavor of stink that's enveloped this series' English versions from day one to now and that dearly needs to go if its ever going to be even remotely listenable outside of the Japanese version. These characters need to no longer sound like they're from some bad G.I. Joe knockoff, and sound instead like semi-believable human beings for once.

Why do people expect naturalism to be a requirement for Dragon Ball dubs. Moreover, why is them sounding human so crucial? A lot of the cast, including the main character aren't even human. Even VegettoEX has said Goku and Freeza sound neither male nor female, they sound like the characters. They are unique alien characters in a cartoon. Yes I said it Nozawa and Nakao sound like cartoon characters. Hell Dragon Ball is a cartoon, a good cartoon moreover, people really need to stop seeing this as derogatory and accept it for what it is. It's ok, and if the Funimation cast deliver good enough cartoon voices (which I think they do) then so be it.

[Robo4900]

But in all seriousness, I'm totally and virulently against having these characters be performed as "Saturday morning cartoon" characters: what's long been DESPERATELY needed in an English DB/Z dub is naturalism. Just have the characters be allowed to speak in natural, organic, conversational sounding voices rather than doing an over the top silly caricature of a voice. No over the top rasps or forced grunts or silly, stereotypically broad accents: just speak into the microphone and Act. Natural. Its what 99% of the Japanese voices have all generally done throughout, and it works absolute wonders for this anime because it allows for the characters to posses shades of real emotional subtlety. And that elevates the overall quality of this anime VASTLY beyond its inherent silly ridiculousness.

The Ocean voices were vastly superior and more professional & charismatic Saturday morning cartoon voice actors than the FUNimation cast could ever hope to be: but they're still playing these characters as broad Saturday morning cartoon characters. And that's the particular flavor of stink that's enveloped this series' English versions from day one to now and that dearly needs to go if its ever going to be even remotely listenable outside of the Japanese version. These characters need to no longer sound like they're from some bad G.I. Joe knockoff, and sound instead like semi-believable human beings for once.

Why do people expect naturalism to be a requirement for Dragon Ball dubs. Moreover, why is them sounding human so crucial? A lot of the cast, including the main character aren't even human. Even VegettoEX has said Goku and Freeza sound neither male nor female, they sound like the characters. They are unique alien characters in a cartoon. Yes I said it Nozawa and Nakao sound like cartoon characters. Hell Dragon Ball is a cartoon, a good cartoon moreover, people really need to stop seeing this as derogatory and accept it for what it is. It's ok, and if the Funimation cast deliver good enough cartoon voices (which I think they do) then so be it.

I agree... However, I do not think Funi always do deliver good enough voices in a lot of cases.

From where I'm standing, the Japanese cast is full of weird character voices, and the thing that makes them truly natural is the delivery(See: Piccolo Daimao, Nappa, Goku, Whis, Dr. Myuu...). That's why the Ocean cast are so great for Dragon Ball; they use cartoony voices, but they're great actors. Scott McNeil gives Boo a goofy voice befitting a giant pink blob baby man, but his performance means he can sound like a creepy, unstable monster with no concept of morality or conscience whenever the scene calls for it. The Japanese VA accomplished a similar task, naturally with his own take on the voice and performance.

Funi are inconsistent at this. On one hand, Chris Sabat does great as Vegeta these days, Chris Ayres is a fantastic Freeza, and they've pretty much perfectly cast Beerus and Whis. On the other hand, Boo fails to sound creepy or intimidating at all, Kaio has the humour down, but utterly fails to have any gravitas, and most of the Ginyus are fairly lame.
I'm sure Funi could give us great stuff, but they're just too dedicated to keeping up traditions and legacy castings, so we're stuck with a mixed bag that really does fall flat in some important areas, sadly.

[MasenkoHA]

I want to clarify I think the Funi cast is mostly sufficient in Kai to the point there’s only a few voices that need to be replace but I also A. Wouldn’t lose any sleep over a full blown recsst and would possibly get a sick perversion over it given what an utter pedastal the Z era Funi cast is put on by the larger fandom and B. Think its laughable to say the Funi cast at their best (Kai)is as better than the Japanese cast at their most underperforming (Kai)

I also having recently watched most of the Dragon Ball Funi dub would say most of the acting (completely divorced from the Japanese version) is at worst mixed. Some voices I really liked (Tao, Agent Mai, General Blue, Piccolo Jr, Master Roshi) some I utterly despised(Tien, Master Shen, King Piccolo, Bad Launch) Schemmel sounded better here than he ever did in Z pre-remastered at least. Nadolny is at least more suited for Goku than Gohan albeit I still found her acting stilted and awkward half the time her grieving over finding Killin’s dead body was pretty terrible

[Onikage725]

Now watch FUNimation either only use Kai instead of Z, or they have Z but its dub-only, Faulconer-ized, Orange Brick footage.

Or barring those...

Honestly, that sounds early 00's FUNi more than anything. I feel the concerns are moot based on a few factors. They have a streaming service of their own, and run both Z and Kai. I'm pretty sure in both languages, but I don't have an active sub anymore. But I really cant see them outsourcing to Netflix, when companies are routinely pulling off the Netflix/Hulu Tweet in favor of their own in-house service. Kai is already remastered and redubbed... and streaming...so any new dubbing effort would HAVE to target Z. And, from what I have been able to suss out, the Bruce track only exists on physical release. They had a falling out and a right's lawsuit, and can not use his tracks streaming. This issue would, naturally, apply to a new dub on either their service or Netflix. Like Kai's legal issues with Yamamoto, it is basically a great time for us Kikuchi fans lol

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I definitely think Funimation could have recast a few more roles. I'd argue Schemmel's Goku, Sabat's Vegeta and Piccolo, Herbert's Gohan and Rager's Mr Satan are all solid, but recasting Kaio, fat Buu (although if Ocean dub TFC they will probably get him back so thats something) other miscellanious characters like the Ginyus and maybe Yamcha wouldn't hurt.

Hopefully if Ocean Kai airs next year someone will be able to isolate the voice tracks. I know there was talks about creating an ultimate Super dub with the best of both Funi and Bang Zoom, something similar for Kai with the American and Canadian casts could be very interesting.

[KBABZ]

Schemmel sounded better here than he ever did in Z pre-remastered at least.

You kidding?? He sounds like he's holding his nose the entire time!

[MasenkoHA]

Now watch FUNimation either only use Kai instead of Z, or they have Z but its dub-only, Faulconer-ized, Orange Brick footage.

Or barring those...

Honestly, that sounds early 00's FUNi more than anything. I feel the concerns are moot based on a few factors. They have a streaming service of their own, and run both Z and Kai. I'm pretty sure in both languages, but I don't have an active sub anymore. But I really cant see them outsourcing to Netflix, when companies are routinely pulling off the Netflix/Hulu Tweet in favor of their own in-house service. Kai is already remastered and redubbed... and streaming...so any new dubbing effort would HAVE to target Z. And, from what I have been able to suss out, the Bruce track only exists on physical release. They had a falling out and a right's lawsuit, and can not use his tracks streaming. This issue would, naturally, apply to a new dub on either their service or Netflix. Like Kai's legal issues with Yamamoto, it is basically a great time for us Kikuchi fans lol

Kai is for whatever reason not streaming on Funimation’s streaming service though.

To their credit Dragon Ball Z is available subbed and dubbed on their website with the Japanese music intact for the dub (which gives me great joy when Faulconer fans complain its not the Faulconer version) but its definitely uploaded from the Orange Bricks which means the craptastic Menza opening for the dub and the Japanese subs crediting the English cast and crew and using the English titles.


And Dragon Ball and GT are available subbed only on Huli so it wouldn’t be that weird if DBZ ended up on Netflix for a brief time. Though honestly I could see them giving Netflix Kai. It doesn’t sell as well as Z

[8000 Saiyan]

I don't see why people still feel the need to utterly trounce and lambast the Funimatiom cast and write them off as trash. If you don't like their performances, fine, art is subjective, just watch the Japanese version or alternate English dubs if they do it for you, but with the level of disdain leveraged at their work you would swear some people expect them to be Daniel Day Lewis to even be considered serviceable. Sure they're not the best actors in the world. I happen to think they started out crap but they are certainly above adequate by now. Again, your entitled to disagree but for me it just feels this vitriol comes from how bad the cast were originally. Had they been as good as they are today 20 years ago and remained around that level ever since I don't think they'd be trashed like this, they'd just be seen by most people as decent actors at worst, not complete dogshit. Believe me I've seen fandubs and movies with rubbish actors and the Funimation cast run circles around them. They are not the best in the world, not even by voice acting standards (Scott McNeil was in this show after all) but for me personally I think most of them do a fine job. The real issue with modern Dragon Ball dubs is Super's script changes.

While I don't agree with what Kunzait has to say about the Funimation cast (with some exceptions), he has never said he wants Oscar-winning actors, he just wants "competent" actors.

I definitely think Funimation could have recast a few more roles. I'd argue Schemmel's Goku, Sabat's Vegeta and Piccolo, Herbert's Gohan and Rager's Mr Satan are all solid, but recasting Kaio, fat Buu (although if Ocean dub TFC they will probably get him back so thats something) other miscellanious characters like the Ginyus and maybe Yamcha wouldn't hurt.

Hopefully if Ocean Kai airs next year someone will be able to isolate the voice tracks. I know there was talks about creating an ultimate Super dub with the best of both Funi and Bang Zoom, something similar for Kai with the American and Canadian casts could be very interesting.

I'd suggest cast a better VA for Tenshinhan and Roshi as well.

[ABED]

Subtle would not be the word I would use for performances in DB, but it doesn't have to be turned up to 11.

[Majin Buu]

Why do people expect naturalism to be a requirement for Dragon Ball dubs.

Because it's a standard we know is possible to achieve since it's done in the Japanese version. Why should we just accept the forced, mediocre-at-best performances Funimation gives us when we know it's possible to do better?

[ABED]

We have to be clear what we mean by natural. Kozo Shioya's Buu doesn't sound realistic. It's over the top but he can still emote and not come off like a complete caricature.

[Majin Buu]

Exactly. Natural is when it sounds like the actor isn't trying to act and is just speaking/emoting normally, even when the voice in question isn't a normal voice.

Forced is when the performance sounds off because the actor is noticeably trying too hard to get the desired effect across.

[Onikage725]

Kai is for whatever reason not streaming on Funimation’s streaming service though.

To their credit Dragon Ball Z is available subbed and dubbed on their website with the Japanese music intact for the dub (which gives me great joy when Faulconer fans complain its not the Faulconer version) but its definitely uploaded from the Orange Bricks which means the craptastic Menza opening for the dub and the Japanese subs crediting the English cast and crew and using the English titles.


And Dragon Ball and GT are available subbed only on Huli so it wouldn’t be that weird if DBZ ended up on Netflix for a brief time. Though honestly I could see them giving Netflix Kai. It doesn’t sell as well as Z

Ah, my bad. They promote it and have clips, but yes they don't seem to have the actual show at present.

As for DB/GT- I'm no expert in these deals, but I feel like Hulu is a more anime friendly platform. I probably follow more new shows on there than crunchy, and that is where I marathoned the newer Sailor Moon dub. I'd be less surprised to see future Dragon Ball there. I think Netflix would only get it if some new deal had to be inked and Netflix put up some cash (especially if we are talking about a huge redubbing effort).

...I get the same thrill about the music reactions as you :p

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

While I don't agree with what Kunzait has to say about the Funimation cast (with some exceptions), he has never said he wants Oscar-winning actors, he just wants "competent" actors.

That's fair enough, but I don't see how the performances the Funi cast have given in the new movies, Kai and Super for the most part could be written off as dogshit. Your entitled to not be a fan but if a cast I wasn't fond of delivered work of that standard I'd see them as being competent at worst. Its night and day to how they sounded in 1999-2003, I find that dub hard to go back to, the difference is just phenomenal.

Exactly. Natural is when it sounds like the actor isn't trying to act and is just speaking/emoting normally, even when the voice in question isn't a normal voice.

Forced is when the performance sounds off because the actor is noticeably trying too hard to get the desired effect across.

Well I think this says it all:

These characters need to no longer sound like they're from some bad G.I. Joe knockoff, and sound instead like semi-believable human beings for once.

I get the natural argument, but the distinction should be natural in what context. I just don't think natural for a "human being" is right for that, because, I'll say it again. Many of the characters in this series are not human.

For example Goku is appropriately given an unusual voice for a male by both Schemmel and Nozawa because he is not a human, he is a saiyan. He also lacks human emotional priorities and puts his love of fighting before his friends and family. Schemmel does this rather well. He has said at conventions his Goku voice is his regular voice but higher. His serious Goku is closer to his natural speaking voice but with a cocky tweek. I don't see how this is trying too hard. Its a voice used to give off a particular portrayal, Schemmel does it and you can hear the passion in the voice, moreover in his screams which make him stand out among all English portrayals of Goku.

Some of the voices are forced, even today. I'll give you Kaio, Roshi, the Ginyu force and a few others as previously mentioned. Sabat's Vegeta sounds forced when he's using the gravelly voice he used in Z and seems to have gone back to in Super, however when he uses his smoother voice from Kai it feels more natural and in line with who the character is. A proud warrior born into royalty that loves to further himself through training. Again Sabat puts on a performance and ticks those boxes, but when he's not forcing it (with the gravelly voice) it comes off as natural for that character (who I reiterate is not human).

[Majin Buu]

I get the natural argument, but the distinction should be natural in what context. I just don't think natural for a "human being" is right for that, because, I'll say it again. Many of the characters in this series are not human.

I think you're focusing too narrowly on the term "human being" and missing his overall point. What he means is that the voice acting should not sound like people forcing character voices/emotions, which is what most of the dub actors sound like.

[Onikage725]

Honestly, I think the dub has come a long way and I don't really have a big problem with it. I even tend to leave the games in English these days, which would make my early 00s self cringe. There is something to be said, though, that the Japanese cast largely user iterations of their voices. With whatever affectations are appropriate. Some of the dub voices are unnecessarily cartoonish. A hold-over from the 90s. This only seems to really disappear when they hire a new actor for a role. Sean has come a LONG way with Goku, but King Kai is still obnoxious. Considering his wise old man voice in Japan, doubling as narrator, this has always rubbed me the wrong way. The dub narrators have always been...remember when it was Ginyu for some reason? Vegeta is an interesting case, because Chris has really grown as an actor. I think his Piccolo is mostly where I'd want it, and you can tell the difference when you compare to his bigger scenes in the original Cell Saga dub. His Vegeta back then was even worse. It is much more palatable now, but still beholden to that overly gravelly voice he locked in from it. Which was itself an attempt to step away from the nasally Drummond impression he started with (since the redub on the bricks, many forget this).