Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

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Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:42 am

I.e., Blue Water Dub, Ocean Dub and Bang Zoom Dub. These three dubs are generally said to be 'terrible' but as I've watched them, they're actually really good in my opinion with their respective flaws (no dub in the world is perfect, not even the Brazilian/Mexican dubs) but I enjoyed them nevertheless. Also, these dubs maintained the original background music (except Ocean Dub Z 1-53 series) unlike FUNimation's DBZ and DBGT dubs (original TV runs).

It seems to me that the logic behind the fans who complain about these dubs goes like this:
  • FUNimation = Good
  • Blue Water, Ocean, Bang Zoom = Bad (because it's not the "official" dubs)
This video on YouTube illustrates perfectly how much Dragon Ball fans exaggerate to no end (also a reason why I'm not subbed to any DB YouTubers), and in this case, to get as many views, comments and clicks as possible. "The WORST Dragon Ball Super Dub!" classic example of a desperate YouTuber who wants his video to hit 1 million views with such a clickbait title and thumbnail.

P.S. I didn't list the Westwood Dub or the Big Green Dub 'cause, I don't think they're anywhere near as good as those other three but nor are they absolutely horrific either (okay, maybe the Big Green).

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:29 am

It’s not what they’re accostomed to. Simple as that.


Fyi the Westwood dub is the Ocean dub.

There really isn’t an “Ocean dub” just the Ocean Group doing the ADR work for Funimation for the first 67 episodes edited down to 53 and then doing it for AB Groupe/Westwood for the alternate English dub for episode 108 onwards

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:22 am

I agree with Masenko. Kinda like I just explained in another thread, it's not that it's bad, I'm just not used to hearing those sounds coming out of the characters in scenes that look exactly the same!

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by PacificOceanDub » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:14 pm

I’m a fan of the Funimation Dub, but I have to say, I also love the Ocean cast. I could honestly watch the show either way. Obviously the fact that the FUNi cast has a complete dub for 1-291 gives it more of a draw than the Ocean cast. But if I had the option, I’d absolutely watch the whole show with Peter Kelamis, Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, etc.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:06 pm

PacificOceanDub wrote:. Obviously the fact that the FUNi cast has a complete dub for 1-291 gives it more of a draw than the Ocean cast. .
I mean I get the appeal of a consistent cast from episode 1 to episode 291 which you’re getting with the remastered Funimation of course. But it’s still not a consistent product. You get Schemmel’s best acting in the Z era from episode 1-67 suddenly turning to absolute shit in episode 68 and only gradually improving from there. Sabat bothered to rerecord his season 3 and Garlic JR lines in 2007 so not anything after so you still hear his Drummond imitation around the Android saga. Nadolny goes from nasally to chain smoker in the middle of season 3. It makes the whole experience feel off having the actors at their best/most tolerable to at their worst.

And of course the music. Unless you watch with the Kikuchi score you’re still going from Johnson to Faulconer (or Kikuchi to Faulconer because I know a lot of fans dont like the Johnson score)

So, I really don’t think watching the Ocean dub for the first 53 episodes then switching to Funimation to fill in the gaps of what the Ocean Group never dubbed and then switching back to Ocean from episode 108 onward is that bad of an alternative. It’s an inconsistent product regardless.

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:55 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:I.e., Blue Water Dub, Ocean Dub and Bang Zoom Dub. These three dubs are generally said to be 'terrible' but as I've watched them, they're actually really good in my opinion with their respective flaws (no dub in the world is perfect, not even the Brazilian/Mexican dubs) but I enjoyed them nevertheless. Also, these dubs maintained the original background music (except Ocean Dub Z 1-53 series) unlike FUNimation's DBZ and DBGT dubs (original TV runs).

It seems to me that the logic behind the fans who complain about these dubs goes like this:
  • FUNimation = Good
  • Blue Water, Ocean, Bang Zoom = Bad (because it's not the "official" dubs)
This video on YouTube illustrates perfectly how much Dragon Ball fans exaggerate to no end (also a reason why I'm not subbed to any DB YouTubers), and in this case, to get as many views, comments and clicks as possible. "The WORST Dragon Ball Super Dub!" classic example of a desperate YouTuber who wants his video to hit 1 million views with such a clickbait title and thumbnail.

P.S. I didn't list the Westwood Dub or the Big Green Dub 'cause, I don't think they're anywhere near as good as those other three but nor are they absolutely horrific either (okay, maybe the Big Green).
I know all you are trying to do here is being fair to the English dubs, but here's a heads up. EVERYTHING IS FLAWED. NOTHING IS PERFECT. So making this statement to defend more attacked dubs is a non statement that is useless and does nothing but shit on the good dubs. Nothing is perfect not even the original Dragon Ball. Instead of putting down other dubs you can mention what these dubs do that Funimationdont. (LOL SEGA)

That said, I love that you stand up for these dubs and that is very much a meaningful statement that is buttery sweet. I loved what I watched of the Ocean dub, I CANNOT STAND season 3 Funimation and until end of Z.

I love that Ocean was the very first window into the world of DB for millions of kids. I know it was censored but I'm very much of a "Exposure First Guy". If it helps get the show on the air (This is KEY to understanding my argument. I have always held the belief that no edits are needed for Children, the editing to appease execs, censors and even Sponsors) and Ocean very much was extremely successful in that regard. This is why I adore the version that Toonzai and Vortexx aired. It was as true to Dragon Ball as it could manage in that rough an enviroment. And the voices were TERRIFIC. And I loved the soundtrack too.

Now BangZoom. I frankly dont like it and despite being a very open minded person I REALLY DONT GET why anyone does either. Goku sounds like a grandpa and despite being one he is stilll supposed to sound young. I think people like it since its very distinct and diferent from Sean Schemel which is fine and dandy, but he doesnt fit Goku at all. The rest are odd imitations of Funimation which is the imitation of an imitation. Ie Not very good.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:15 pm

everyone bashes the dubs you don't watch / haven't heard. it's human nature.

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by PacificOceanDub » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:26 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: So, I really don’t think watching the Ocean dub for the first 53 episodes then switching to Funimation to fill in the gaps of what the Ocean Group never dubbed and then switching back to Ocean from episode 108 onward is that bad of an alternative. It’s an inconsistent product regardless.

I feel like watching it heavily edited (and with a replacement score) for the first 53 episodes, in addition to hearing an entirely different cast for 50 more is a bit of a far-cry from just hearing the FUNi cast go through some growing pains in the early/middle part of the show. I’ll agree with you on the fact that the American music switching at episode 67 is awkward as hell. I can’t stand that,I watch it with the original score anyway.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Tian » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Now BangZoom. I frankly dont like it and despite being a very open minded person I REALLY DONT GET why anyone does either. Goku sounds like a grandpa and despite being one he is stilll supposed to sound young. I think people like it since its very distinct and diferent from Sean Schemel which is fine and dandy, but he doesnt fit Goku at all. The rest are odd imitations of Funimation which is the imitation of an imitation. Ie Not very good.
1) He doesn't sound like a grandpa to me. He sounds kinda like Mordecai from Regular Show or the Red Ranger from Power Rangers RPM.

2) Not all of them are doing impressions of the FUNi cast. Just listen to Michael McConnohie's King Kai. It's more faithful to the JPN version than Sean Schemmel's, or Derek Stephen Price's Frieza, who doesn't sound like Chris Ayres' at all.

Edit : Forgot to write "sound" in "who doesn't sound like".

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:56 pm

Oh I had forgotten those. But even if you are indeed right in that Goku doesnt sound like a Grandpa and that there are performances that arent imitations and that some even outdo Funimation. (For whom I have no bias or love towards, even if their dub is decent by my standards) I will still say that its not good either.

I actually love the BangZoom cast as people. Lex Lang, miscast as he was, didnt deserve the shit thrown at him. Kaiji Tang rocks. And I certainly have no love or respect for Chris Rager who behaved like a huge douche towards the poor BangZoom cast.
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90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:12 pm

Availability is a major part of this. The United States is the largest English speaking market in the world. Outside of a brief period between 1995 and 1999 (which was so long ago it's now a foot note), the only version of Dragon Ball officially released in the country was recorded in Texas. Everything else literally is foreign to them. Even Funimation, the company who funded those early Vancouver productions, has on occasion forgotten who the original English cast are. "Not what you're expecting" is a big barrier to overcome.

Of course, there are legitimate problems with each of those dubs. The early Vancouver ones were produced for U.S. TV syndication at a time in which anime fans weren't an audience being promoted to on any large scale. They're edited and feature at times inexplicably ludicrous script changes. The Calgary dubs suffer that to a much lesser degree, but instead has an entirely separate cast of inexperienced voice actors. Bang Zoom's dub has some casting choices and performances that are very different from what people have come to expect. 2 of the 3 are incomplete and none are doing the new material. None of them have had the luxury of being able to go back and selectively re-do particularly poor aspects of their work, like Funimation has.

It doesn't help that Toei couldn't care less about these other versions. The only English dub currently officially available anywhere is Funimation's. There's no situation where Canada/UK are catered to specifically, like Spain vs. Latin America and Portugal vs. Brazil would. We just get whatever the U.S. gets. If you want to watch those Calgary dubs, you have to pirate 15 year old incomplete VHS rips. If you want to watch Bang Zoom's dub, you have to pirate those shaky Indian TV rips. Nothing is more damning about Toei's apathy on this subject than the fact they've had a complete 98 episode dub of Kai sitting on a shelf unreleased for years. It's crazy to think if Ocean's dub winds up on TV, it wasn't because Toei put in the work to find it a home. It's because we did.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by samuraix123 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:46 pm

I try to stay away from anything related to my favorite shows online(except kanzenshuu) because it's almost always toxic. I grew up with the Ocean version first and then moved onto Funimation's other dub(actually without noticing lol) as I got older in my teen years I watched the Japanese version and loved it while my friends hated it. I've been to places online were people has said I'm not a real legit fan of the series because I like Funi. which is why I never pay attention to those morons because they are exactly that. Morons. I've learned that a huge percent of aggravation was coming from online be it, Facebook, Youtube comments, or just anime sites in general so I just excluded myself from them all together. been happy ever since. LOL :lol:
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Rafa Fast » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:04 pm

I belive is just lack of interest of who has grewed with the funi dub, but some times we see fanboys with excuses to dirty the image of the other dubs, I grew up meeting Dragon Ball by the Brazilian dub, but just because of this I don't disturb brazilian DB fans that just watch the anime in japanese, saying that the only way to watch the anime is with the brazilian dub, this is ridiculous, not even for the japanese dub (which is my favorite one) I would say that, I have interest and look up to others dubs, the France dub is a very interesting creative one, some name changes in that dub are very interesting, I love the way that masenko was renamed to "kamehame" (yeah without the last ha in the ending), Petit Cœur is a interesting alternate name for Piccolo (speeling it, is "Pikoter"), and why I said creative? well look at Vegetto and Gotenks French names, Vegeku and Gotrunks! this can sound hear for you guys, but in my opinion both two sounds better than Vegetto and Gotenks.
about Funi, I actually never watched this dub, I've just saw some clips on youtube, but here is my opinion, the voice cast is amazing, the translations of the episodes names and movies are cool, and is very interesting that in some moments they had even edited the episodes/movies, just as in Fusion Reborn, in Funi dub of that dub, when Freeza recognizes Gohan, appears a flashback of his fight against Gohan in Namek, this doesn't happens in any of the others dub, is a perfect dub, well, almost perfect, at least for me, I just think it have a problem, well have a minor problem, I don't like their own soundtrack, and I totally deslike Rock the Dragon, but I can find easily online the Funi dub with the japanese soundtrack so that's not a real problem, the Real Problem of Funi in my opinion are the name translations, I respect english db fans that prefer funi, but I just can't take the translations, like, some translations are cool, as I prefer Krillin over Kuririn, but a lot in my opinion and bad and unecessary, sorry but I think Spirit Bomb is a weak name for a technique that requires the energy frim every life in the universe, lol King Kai???? but he's not a King! and lol my gosh Great Ape in my opinion is the worst, bro Oozaru is a monstruous chaotic transformation, how they dare calling it Great Ape? Great Wpe would fit for a circus monkey or idk, ugh, that's the reason I always play the DB games in japanese, seriously I would not like using Goku to hear it saying "Spirit Bomb", in my opinion Funi gets the 3rd place in the ranking of best dubs, but just to it voice cast, and Brazilian in 2nd, and Japanese in 1st, so why Brazilian in 2nd? easy, Brazilian dub didn't adapt the Japanese dub with unecessary translations, for my hope they kept Genkidama, Oozaru...
that's it, I gave my opinion to Funi and Funi fans.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Kokonoe » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:28 pm

It's easy to point fingers, but I'd say this just something people do in general. It's not specific to fans of Funimation, people will always judge what isn't their preference or isn't what they are accustomed to.

Of course that is a generalization and not everyone is like that, but it's certainly a people issue at the end of the day.

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:14 pm

Kokonoe wrote:It's easy to point fingers, but I'd say this just something people do in general. It's not specific to fans of Funimation, people will always judge what isn't their preference or isn't what they are accustomed to.

Of course that is a generalization and not everyone is like that, but it's certainly a people issue at the end of the day.
Yeah, and for a long time a rather vocal portion of the Ocean fanbase was VERY overzealous and hostile when it came to that dub, going out of their way to pick fights with the Funi fanbase. Particularly on YouTube.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:28 am

@Rafa Fast: I'm sorry, but hearing you defend the changes of the French dub like giving explicitly different techniques the same name (the example you gave was calling the masenko a kamehame) and dumb name changes that are neither the original term or a valid romanization (like Kuririn to Kurilin or Krillin for example) nor a term that is faithful in spirit even if it's not literal. Changing Piccolo to Satan (and by extension Piccolo Jr. To Satan Little-Heart... or as the Anglosphere is more likely to call him Big Green ) doesn't convey the original meaning of the character's name at all. Vegetto to Vegeku was because of the French dub's refusal to have Vegeta regularly refer to Goku as Kakarot(to). Gotenks to Gotrunks isn't as severe a change as others I mentioned, but it's still completely unnecessary.

I'm not letting the English dubs off the hook either (at least the French dub didn't try to make DBZ seem edgy as hell like Funi did). However, the English dubs despite their own flaws sere usually more coherent than the French dub pre-Kai was (exceptions to this rule include the Big Green dub due to being a poor translation of the already poorly translated French dub, and the Speedy dub due to it's poor acting and sound mixing as well as having different terms from film to film (Saiya People to Saiyas, Vegeta to Beta, Kuririn to Mohan to Infinite Hands etc)).

The French dub pre Kai might be closer in tone to the original series than Funi's pre-Kai dubs, but when a dub deliberately obfuscates the story by not naming some major characters until several episodes after they first appeared, not making some major characters at all, giving pointless name changes like Piccolo Jr to Satan Little-Heart, only referring to the Saiyan race as "Space Warriors", etc, you end up with a story that's needlessly hard to follow. French Kai junked many of the old terms for a reason.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:03 pm

English-speaking fans belittle the non-Funi dubs because Funi fans are dominant online, and the non-Funi dubs are not what they are used to.

Even the Funi fans who are familiar with Ocean via the Saban days were never really exposed to the Westwood dubs.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:29 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Yeah, and for a long time a rather vocal portion of the Ocean fanbase was VERY overzealous and hostile when it came to that dub, going out of their way to pick fights with the Funi fanbase. Particularly on YouTube.
Really? Because I’ve seen pretty much the exact opposite. Ocean dub fans being in the minority and Funi fans throwing their weight around Youtube

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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:22 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote: Yeah, and for a long time a rather vocal portion of the Ocean fanbase was VERY overzealous and hostile when it came to that dub, going out of their way to pick fights with the Funi fanbase. Particularly on YouTube.
Really? Because I’ve seen pretty much the exact opposite. Ocean dub fans being in the minority and Funi fans throwing their weight around Youtube
This was back in the mid-late 2000s. Constantly uploading loaded comparison videos and being hostile towards anyone who preferred Funi. It may have only been a few users but they were insanely vocal and obnoxious.
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Re: Why do English-speaking fans belittle the non-FUNimation dubs?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:34 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
MasenkoHA wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote: Yeah, and for a long time a rather vocal portion of the Ocean fanbase was VERY overzealous and hostile when it came to that dub, going out of their way to pick fights with the Funi fanbase. Particularly on YouTube.
Really? Because I’ve seen pretty much the exact opposite. Ocean dub fans being in the minority and Funi fans throwing their weight around Youtube
This was back in the mid-late 2000s. Constantly uploading loaded comparison videos and being hostile towards anyone who preferred Funi. It may have only been a few users but they were insanely vocal and obnoxious.
I remember one guy. Formidable Warrior I think. He constantly shit on Funimation and praised Ocean like it was the best thing to exist. Dozens of videos incessantly mocking them, rather rudely at that.

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