Vic Mignogna

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:34 am

Hugo Boss wrote:There seems to be a cultural difference between how people face kisses and hugs in the world too. For example, in Brazil it isn’t inappropriate to do it with known people, even if they are not from our family. It’s a sign of friendship. North Americans though feel very uncomfortable with it.
There's also what I like to call the European Miss Kiss, where you hold the other person and then kiss, but instead of anywhere near the face you move your head past theirs on either side like you're brushing cheeks. It's so weird.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Scsigs » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:48 am

KBABZ wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:There seems to be a cultural difference between how people face kisses and hugs in the world too. For example, in Brazil it isn’t inappropriate to do it with known people, even if they are not from our family. It’s a sign of friendship. North Americans though feel very uncomfortable with it.
There's also what I like to call the European Miss Kiss, where you hold the other person and then kiss, but instead of anywhere near the face you move your head past theirs on either side like you're brushing cheeks. It's so weird.
Sounds like Eskimo kisses, where they rub noses.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:57 am

Sure, but that's hardly what's being described in his behavior.

Additionally, as has already been noted several times in this thread, we're not falling for "you're not being polite enough to me as I roll out my continued, detailed denial of what's happening here, particularly as I make it explicitly clear that I haven't actually read any of the material in the first place."

All of the usual tactics are being used here. Once the testimonials are overwhelming where even the most blinded, dedicated of fans have to reconsider their feelings (and props to those who have), the bad faith actors turn to "well you weren't nice enough to us" followed by "it sure would be a shame if you get accused."

Noooooope.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:06 am

Scsigs wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:There seems to be a cultural difference between how people face kisses and hugs in the world too. For example, in Brazil it isn’t inappropriate to do it with known people, even if they are not from our family. It’s a sign of friendship. North Americans though feel very uncomfortable with it.
There's also what I like to call the European Miss Kiss, where you hold the other person and then kiss, but instead of anywhere near the face you move your head past theirs on either side like you're brushing cheeks. It's so weird.
Sounds like Eskimo kisses, where they rub noses.
Which itself sounds a lot like the Maori Hongi greeting!

...apologies for the tangent.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by EXBadguy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:06 pm

Maaan, yall should see what's going on on YouTube right now. People are going off on Rial, Sabat, and Funimation. Shit's nuts, but you know that's what I'd expect from that community.

The ultra liberals take over social media (mostly Twitter and Tumblr) while the conservatives and the alt right take over Youtube.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:54 pm

EXBadguy wrote:Maaan, yall should see what's going on on YouTube right now. People are going off on Rial, Sabat, and Funimation. Shit's nuts, but you know that's what I'd expect from that community.

The ultra liberals take over social media (mostly Twitter and Tumblr) while the conservatives and the alt right take over Youtube.
What is exactly is an 'ultra liberal' in this context?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by EXBadguy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:32 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
EXBadguy wrote:Maaan, yall should see what's going on on YouTube right now. People are going off on Rial, Sabat, and Funimation. Shit's nuts, but you know that's what I'd expect from that community.

The ultra liberals take over social media (mostly Twitter and Tumblr) while the conservatives and the alt right take over Youtube.
What is exactly is an 'ultra liberal' in this context?
The far left. I assume you're familiar with that. If you want me to explain more, I will...
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Danfun64 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:34 pm

EXBadguy wrote:The ultra liberals take over social media (mostly Twitter and Tumblr)
Oh really, well I have some Male-Presenting Nipple emojis which prove otherwise...
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by EXBadguy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:40 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
EXBadguy wrote:The ultra liberals take over social media (mostly Twitter and Tumblr)
Oh really, well I have some Male-Presenting Nipple emojis which prove otherwise...
Never said the alt right losers were never there. But I still think the far left outweigh the right over there by a small percentage at least. Then again, Tumblr does show out the WORST of both political spectrums.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MagicBox » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:04 pm

I hesitate to add my voice to the mix because there's absolutely nothing I can offer, from any perspective, that others haven't already perfectly conveyed. But at the same time, not talking about this feels like a disservice to the victims who have courageously embraced the responsibilities, risks, and dangers that come with sharing these experiences.

Vic Mignogna, Pre-Controversy: As someone who 1.) almost exclusively watches anime subtitled, and 2.) doesn't take part in the convention scene, my familiarity with Mignogna's career is limited at best. I've heard his take on Edward Elric, Broli, Butta, and minor characters in series like Detective Conan, but don't particularly care for any of them and I have no real stake in him as an actor. He's someone I'm familiar with, but not someone to which I have any attachment. That makes it extremely easy for me to read the headlines and form an opinion without feeling like I've "lost a hero", although I do sympathize with those of you who truly admire Mignogna's work and feel betrayed by his actions. I'd even go so far as to say that, as an initial reaction, a certain level of skepticism and denial on your part is understandable. Again, as an initial reaction.

The Allegations: I had zero knowledge of Mignogna's misconduct prior to this year. But as countless others have clearly stated, so many unconnected people, both inside and outside the acting vocation, have shared so many unconnected stories over such a long period of time that it is, quite frankly, infuriating to see hundreds of fans brush this off as a conspiracy, or jealously, or targeting a swell Christian guy for his faith, or whatever other nonsense we've heard this month. I see arguments citing cultural differences, or what things like kissing and physical contact "really mean by legal definition" (either as a genuine attempt to save Mignogna's skin or, annoyingly, just for the love of the debate), but here's the bottom line... We've heard enough from Mignogna's fans, convention staff, male colleagues, and female colleagues to discern that, at best, the man has intentionally exhibited harmful patterns of behavior towards his peers. That alone is worth calling him out for. You either take it seriously or you don't. If you choose the latter, that doesn't change the severity of the situation.

The Fallout: Employers have fired people for much, much less, and they absolutely have that right. I expected backlash, but the sheer number of fans pleading for Mignogna to stay in their lives while simultaneously casting aside a half-dozen other male and female FUNimation actors (and even FUNimation as a company) is something I never thought I'd see in this capacity. I know it isn't productive to complain about random "internet boogeymen", but I even read a comment stating that actresses like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi should "have never gone public" with what happened to them because it's "just unprofessional". The audacity to be a random fan on the internet and consider yourself privy to FUNimation's "evidence" when you've already convinced yourself that you're beyond convincing. I'm truly at a loss as to how anyone can witness this blind faith towards Mignogna, while simultaneously witnessing the harsh words, death threats, and parody accounts directed at those who spoke up, and still have the gall to ask why victims don't share their stories sooner. A celebrity isn't your friend. You don't know these people personally. You can't claim to speak for their good character just because you met them once and their acting inspired you. Mignogna's peers (read: people who know him better than we do) have already shared what they shared with nothing to gain but vitriol from others.

The Apology: I believe people like Mignogna can repent, reform, and rejoin the acting community (and the convention scene) once his peers and employer have deemed it acceptable, but it's not his call. At the very least, he should acknowledge his actions, demonstrate remorse, and make a legitimate effort to offer some sort of restitution to those he's harmed. Mignogna's most recent statement on the matter shows a bit of an interest in doing these things, albeit in a very roundabout way and with just an ounce of victim-blaming thrown in for good measure. Time will tell if he does what needs to be done, and I hope he does.

Talking About Dragon Ball: That's the real challenge, isn't it? I have yet to see the new Dragon Ball Super film because I'd like to see it in its original language first, so I've been holding out for the home release. This news does not affect my feelings about the franchise in any way, although it's unfortunate that the bad behavior of one individual could change the way someone looks at their fandom.
Last edited by MagicBox on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by BlueChi » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:14 pm

MagicBox wrote:The Allegations: I had zero knowledge of Mignogna's misconduct prior to this year. But as countless others have clearly stated, so many unconnected people, both inside and outside the acting vocation, have shared so many unconnected stories over such a long period of time that it is, quite frankly, infuriating to see hundreds of fans brush this off as a conspiracy, or jealously, or targeting a swell Christian guy for his faith, or whatever other nonsense we've heard this month. I see arguments citing cultural differences, or what things like kissing and physical contact "really mean by legal definition" (either as a genuine attempt to save Mignogna's skin or, annoyingly, just for the love of the debate), but here's the bottom line... We've heard enough from Mignogna's fans, convention staff, male colleagues, and female colleagues to discern that, at best, the man has intentionally exhibited harmful patterns of behavior towards his peers. That alone is worth calling him out for. You either take it seriously or you don't. If you choose the latter, that doesn't change the severity of the situation.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm almost sure this also applies to those who discussed this yesterday in that we're not discussing this "just for the sake of a debate". You're not the only one who takes this seriously and you'd have known that if you had actually read our posts because you're making the exact same points we're making.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MagicBox » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:32 pm

BlueChi wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I'm almost sure this also applies to those who discussed this yesterday in that we're not discussing this "just for the sake of a debate". You're not the only one who takes this seriously and you'd have known that if you had actually read our posts because you're making the exact same points we're making.
My comments on that matter actually weren't directed at you or anyone you've been speaking to in this topic in particular, which is why I didn't quote anyone specifically. While I can claim to have read the majority of this thread, I haven't kept track of the various sub-conversations and who has been having them. Also, my perspective and the content of my post come from seeing discussion on various message boards and social media platforms (and typically with less tact than what I've seen here). I'm very glad to hear that we've been making the same points!
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TheNingen » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:23 pm

MagicBox wrote:
BlueChi wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I'm almost sure this also applies to those who discussed this yesterday in that we're not discussing this "just for the sake of a debate". You're not the only one who takes this seriously and you'd have known that if you had actually read our posts because you're making the exact same points we're making.
My comments on that matter actually weren't directed at you or anyone you've been speaking to in this topic in particular, which is why I didn't quote anyone specifically. While I can claim to have read the majority of this thread, I haven't kept track of the various sub-conversations and who has been having them. Also, my perspective and the content of my post come from seeing discussion on various message boards and social media platforms (and typically with less tact than what I've seen here). I'm very glad to hear that we've been making the same points!
I want to thank you for your thought out and well crafted post. Although it may seem like the opposite, I'm not a huge Vic fan. The only works I did actually hear him in were as Edward Elric and Broly. I do not have an attachment to him as a voice actor or person or consider him a hero (and I'm not accusing you of saying these things about or towards me). I feel that myself and others in this thread are just in the middle of the spectrum and are being assumed to be taking a side. As someone who HAS been sexually assaulted, and someone who HAS almost had his life ruined by false allegations by a scorned, hateful girl, I can very much identify with both sides. And Vic fucked up. He shouldn't have assumed that everyone would be wanting of his affections and whatnot. But when you meet 1000's of people per day and you have storms of people who want that, it may cause you to make that assumption. Especially when you DO have fans being used as controversy bait being used in articles saying "Vic did this without their consent!" and then the fans coming forward and saying "No? This was consensual. I wanted it. I asked for it. My parent was there." Again, context matters. And you have to wonder if the fan/person was okay with it then and are changing the reality of the situation to suit their agenda, or if they were uncomfortable from the get-go. Again, context matters. It doesn't detract or dismiss those who have had actual bad times with Vic, but there are several stories and people coming forward that I find it really easy to question if they're saying it for the attention.

I feel that many people on this thread are not dismissing the idea that Vic did something. Or even defending him and saying he did nothing. From what I've gathered, many are saying we do believe he did creepy, irresponsible shit but not flat out sexual assault. You have to dissect the stories of people coming forward. Plenty of it is general, it's lacking details, it's not focused. Or if it does have details, it's so extremely hyperbolic, that it borders on non-sensical and hard to believe. This is why people would want evidence. And again, Vic's behavior has been labeled by many an "open secret" in the industry. Funimation higher ups knew of it. That's been said. His fellow voice actors knew about it. It's been admitted. However, if he truly has been sexually assaulting people, especially minors, why have his peers and especially Funimation not done anything about it? That's really severe to just brush aside. Again, he cannot control casting decisions, I've seen threads on Twitter from people who said they worked with him even saying he's not a powerhouse and it wasn't a "fear of crossing him" matter. So what was keeping him from being dealt with then?

It also doesn't help that you do have people like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchie being so outwardly disgusting to anyone who is being civil to them and just asking for evidence or proof and are met with toxic diatribe and then a swift ego block. (Ironically enough, both have allegations coming out against them now. But taking those with a grain of salt. Although one has said he's taking Marchie to court so we'll see if that's true or if anything comes of it. I'm waiting for evidence or anything of the claims that Marchie actually did what she's accused of.)

That being said, I again thank you for your input. Please do not dismiss yourself by saying you have absolutely nothing you can offer. Your post was seriously great.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Captain Awesome » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:45 pm

TheNingen wrote: It also doesn't help that you do have people like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchie being so outwardly disgusting to anyone who is being civil to them and just asking for evidence or proof and are met with toxic diatribe and then a swift ego block.
For fucks sake, really? do I need to tell you this?

*sigh*... Asking a victim of sexual assault for receipts isn't civil, it's terribly inappropriate and callous. In any instance where an internal workplace investigation is underway, it can be damaging to the complainants if they make comments outside of that investigation while the process is ongoing.

The actual toxic behaviour here is the disingenuous pantomime about evidence and the presumption of innocence being used by ignorant children to protect their favourite predatory cartoon voice actor.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TheNingen » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:57 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
TheNingen wrote: It also doesn't help that you do have people like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchie being so outwardly disgusting to anyone who is being civil to them and just asking for evidence or proof and are met with toxic diatribe and then a swift ego block.
For fucks sake, really? do I need to tell you this?

*sigh*... Asking a victim of sexual assault for receipts isn't civil, it's terribly inappropriate and callous. In any instance where an internal workplace investigation is underway, it can be damaging to the complainants if they make comments outside of that investigation while the process is ongoing.

The actual toxic behaviour here is the disingenuous pantomime about evidence and the presumption of innocence being used by ignorant children to protect their favourite predatory cartoon voice actor.
It really isn't. If I knew you in real life and you did something to upset me, I can just say you sexually assaulted me and we roll the ball from there. Then the burden of proof is on me because of the severity of the claim. It isn't inappropriate. It isn't callus. Evidence gives power to a claim and story. There is NOTHING wrong in not taking spoken word at face value because people can have motivations behind it. They are not reliable. And they can lie. Again, plenty of people find it suspect in how overly playful Monica has acted with Vic, and how flirty she's been, and then suddenly he's this horrendous monster that she's been terrified to say anything about.

If you've been paying attention, the behavior from Monica and Jamie has been just as toxic as the side defending Vic. Minimizing the situation from the other side does no favors to anyone. People want the entire story. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And damaging to the complainants? You mean....like Jamie and Monica have been doing? Despite Monica saying her lawyer has advised her to stay off Twitter and not respond, yet she's constantly doing just that? I have yet to see damage come her or Jamie's way.

So please don't get on a high horse and act like you're explaining a concept I don't understand. I've been through this shit personally. I get it. And I understand it. That's why I had proof of my encounter with the person who tried to damage my life and showed her true colors.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:04 pm

TheNingen wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:
TheNingen wrote: It also doesn't help that you do have people like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchie being so outwardly disgusting to anyone who is being civil to them and just asking for evidence or proof and are met with toxic diatribe and then a swift ego block.
For fucks sake, really? do I need to tell you this?

*sigh*... Asking a victim of sexual assault for receipts isn't civil, it's terribly inappropriate and callous. In any instance where an internal workplace investigation is underway, it can be damaging to the complainants if they make comments outside of that investigation while the process is ongoing.

The actual toxic behaviour here is the disingenuous pantomime about evidence and the presumption of innocence being used by ignorant children to protect their favourite predatory cartoon voice actor.
It really isn't. If I knew you in real life and you did something to upset me, I can just say you sexually assaulted me and we roll the ball from there. Then the burden of proof is on me because of the severity of the claim. It isn't inappropriate. It isn't callus. Evidence gives power to a claim and story. There is NOTHING wrong in not taking spoken word at face value because people can have motivations behind it. They are not reliable. And they can lie. Again, plenty of people find it suspect in how overly playful Monica has acted with Vic, and how flirty she's been, and then suddenly he's this horrendous monster that she's been terrified to say anything about.

If you've been paying attention, the behavior from Monica and Jamie has been just as toxic as the side defending Vic. Minimizing the situation from the other side does no favors to anyone. People want the entire story. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And damaging to the complainants? You mean....like Jamie and Monica have been doing? Despite Monica saying her lawyer has advised her to stay off Twitter and not respond, yet she's constantly doing just that? I have yet to see damage come her or Jamie's way.

So please don't get on a high horse and act like you're explaining a concept I don't understand. I've been through this shit personally. I get it. And I understand it. That's why I had proof of my encounter with the person who tried to damage my life and showed her true colors.
The thing is, once again, this isn’t just one or two accusations. These have been going on for years. There are many fans, staff, and VAs who have bad experiences with Vicky boy. If it was just one woman coming forward you MIGHT have a valid point, but there’s too much smoke at this point.

Not to mention the harassment that Rial has been going through down to people trying to paint her as committing sexual assault as well.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:05 pm

The thing is, Rial, et al., don't have to elaborate on anything to random people on twitter. The average fan has no need to know all the sordid details, and has no right to expect people to come out with them just to satisfy their craving for juicy gossip. They aren't the police.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TheNingen » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:09 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:The thing is, Rial, et al., don't have to elaborate on anything to random people on twitter. The average fan has no need to know all the sordid details, and has no right to expect people to come out with them just to satisfy their craving for juicy gossip. They aren't the police.
They relinquished that when they made it a public affair and had a field day with it. Jamie even went about saying "Name and shame is more effective." They knew what they were doing. It's common sense that if you're going to make allegations like that, people will want proof. And again, no one is bothering to reply to why over the 10+ years of this happening, if these things were happening to the severity of the claim, why nothing was done behind closed doors. Why Funimation let it go on. Why Monica flirted with Vic and was so overly playful. Again, they are accessories to this whole problem because they stood by and did nothing. If Vic was just openly sexually assaulting people and it was known, Funi SHOULD have terminated him then and there. Especially if there's a history of it.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:11 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:The thing is, Rial, et al., don't have to elaborate on anything to random people on twitter. The average fan has no need to know all the sordid details, and has no right to expect people to come out with them just to satisfy their craving for juicy gossip. They aren't the police.
I believe she stated the reason she’s not spilling the beans is because she’s in consultation with her lawyer. Which makes sense to me. Still, the rest of your post rings true.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:16 pm

TheNingen wrote:why nothing was done behind closed doors.
Because they could keep trucking along without causing a ruckus.
TheNingen wrote:Why Funimation let it go on.
Because they could keep trucking along without causing a ruckus.
TheNingen wrote:Why Monica flirted with Vic and was so overly playful.
Have you never been cordial and professional to a colleague that you didn't get along with? Didn't like? Had an extremely poor experience with?

Women who "cause problems" are regularly denied work and passed over. Out of self-preservation, many will bite their tongue and play along. It sucks. It's awful. It happens.
TheNingen wrote:If Vic was just openly sexually assaulting people and it was known, Funi SHOULD have terminated him then and there. Especially if there's a history of it.
Yes, absolutely...? Like, we all totally agree on this...?
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